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ECSF Discussion: (5) Philadelphia Flyers vs (6) New Jersey Devils - Devils Win 4-1

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04-27-2012, 07:56 AM
  #101
Protest
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Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
He is. Huge loss. Hopefully he can heal up in 3 days, but it doesnt look good because he's been playing on this since about Game 2.

The thought is, Clarkson might also be playing hurt, and hopefully Sal is okay (took a savage slash at the end of the 3rd tonight).



I'm guessing you dont realize the Devils broke the all-time NHL record for penalty killing this season?

I'll take an 82 game NHL record rather than a short sample size of a mere 7 games in which the PK played poor.



ROUND 1 PENALTY KILL
Flyers PK 69%
Devils PK 67%
The PK numbers from the year don't mean as much as the style of PK the team employs. If they're passive against Giroux the same thing that happened to the Pens will happen to the Devils.

I may be wrong, but I believe one of the reasons the Rangers had success against the Flyers was that they bum rushed Giroux, and that really dampened the effectiveness of the PP.

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04-27-2012, 08:06 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
The PK numbers from the year don't mean as much as the style of PK the team employs. If they're passive against Giroux the same thing that happened to the Pens will happen to the Devils.

I may be wrong, but I believe one of the reasons the Rangers had success against the Flyers was that they bum rushed Giroux, and that really dampened the effectiveness of the PP.
I really think Voracek has been much more effective lately on the right side (point down to half boards). That allows for threats and cross ice passes from either side.

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04-27-2012, 08:06 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
The PK numbers from the year don't mean as much as the style of PK the team employs. If they're passive against Giroux the same thing that happened to the Pens will happen to the Devils.

I may be wrong, but I believe one of the reasons the Rangers had success against the Flyers was that they bum rushed Giroux, and that really dampened the effectiveness of the PP.
If you lose every faceoff, it's hard to kill a penalty. Almost none of FLA's pp goals came off a rush. It was all after winning a faceoff and getting a rebound or point shot.

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04-27-2012, 08:19 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
I really think Voracek has been much more effective lately on the right side (point down to half boards). That allows for threats and cross ice passes from either side.
Yea he's been really good with continuing the puck movement that Grioux starts.

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Originally Posted by GentlemanOfLeisure View Post
If you lose every faceoff, it's hard to kill a penalty. Almost none of FLA's pp goals came off a rush. It was all after winning a faceoff and getting a rebound or point shot.
That will be another key. The Flyers PP works off of fast puck movement when they get set up. The Devils best bet would be to not let them set up.

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04-27-2012, 08:23 AM
  #105
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04-27-2012, 08:25 AM
  #106
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I hope something humiliating happens in this series like when Carcillo scored that back-breaking game winner in OT a couple years ago. Maybe Lilja or Rinaldo (if he plays) could get an OT game winner.

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04-27-2012, 08:37 AM
  #107
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volchenkov scares me.

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04-27-2012, 08:38 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I hope something humiliating happens in this series like when Carcillo scored that back-breaking game winner in OT a couple years ago. Maybe Lilja or Rinaldo (if he plays) could get an OT game winner.
Shelley plays a game and scores?

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04-27-2012, 08:43 AM
  #109
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I hope we dominate the snot out of them and end it quickly. I hate the Devils with every fiber of my being.

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04-27-2012, 08:46 AM
  #110
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volchenkov scares me.
Dunno if he's injured, but Volchenkov has looked pretty awful lately.

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04-27-2012, 09:11 AM
  #111
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Devils D looks like it can be exploited on the fore check

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Old
04-27-2012, 09:20 AM
  #112
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Ah crap:
NHL ‏ @NHL
Did You Know? @NHLDevils Martin Brodeur, who turns 40 on May 6, recorded his sixth career Gm. 7 victory, tying P. Roy for the most all-time.

Of CORSE he is gonna beat that record against us... seems he makes all of his records against us.

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04-27-2012, 09:24 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy View Post
volchenkov scares me.
He shouldn't. He's been hurt or concussed. Very slow on his feet and he can barely follow through on his checks. He has very little power and is playing like a shell of himself.

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04-27-2012, 09:26 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by drownedsailors View Post
The Devils fan who originally made the statement on the main board said "A healthy Kovy > Giroux" So obviously he's not talking about the current injured Kovalchuk.

I think he was trying to make a general statement that Kovy (when healthy) is a better player than Giroux.
Kovy is certainly more talented, but Giroux makes his teammates better on the ice.

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04-27-2012, 10:04 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tundra View Post
Kovy is certainly more talented, but Giroux makes his teammates better on the ice.
I'd say Kovalchuk is a better scorer. Giroux plays a complete game. If you want 50 goals, get Kovy. If you want a guy to play PP, SH, and ES and do it all very well, get Giroux. So like someone said before, it is all preference. Pure offense: Kovalchuk. All around: Giroux. Both are good choices and reasonable minds can differ on who is the better player.

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04-27-2012, 10:21 AM
  #116
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Their defense outside of Zidlicky aren't offensive threats.

They don't dictate or push the play.

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04-27-2012, 10:24 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'd say Kovalchuk is a better scorer. Giroux plays a complete game. If you want 50 goals, get Kovy. If you want a guy to play PP, SH, and ES and do it all very well, get Giroux. So like someone said before, it is all preference. Pure offense: Kovalchuk. All around: Giroux. Both are good choices and reasonable minds can differ on who is the better player.
Kovalchuk's skillset and physical package is off the charts but Giroux has better hockey sense and peripheral vision.

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04-27-2012, 10:27 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Tundra View Post
Kovy is certainly more talented, but Giroux makes his teammates better on the ice.
No he's not.

That's completely absurd.

Giroux has had one year playing 1st line minutes, being the #1 guy on a team. What does he do? He scores 93 points and leads his team through the first round with 14 points in 6 games. Kovalchuk is
Nowhere near the leader giroux is. Right now, if you ask anyone but a devils fan or a Russian person who they'd rather have to start a team with. They're going to say giroux. He just has "it". He's one of the hardest working players I've ever seen. He WANTS to be the best. He's always trying to make himself better. And he's done that. He's consistently worked on his defensive game and he's also worked himself into a very good faceoff man in this league. He plays ES, he plays the PP, he plays the PK. Giroux is better than Kovalchuk. His ship has sailed. To say kovalchuk is more talented than him? Are you kidding me? Have you ever seen giroux play the game? We're talking about Claude. Not Alexandre. Kovalchuk is a better shooter than giroux. That's it. Literally, that is it.

Oh, and

Giroux playoff stats: 46gp, 52p
Kovalchuk playoff stats: 16gp, 13p

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04-27-2012, 10:33 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
No he's not.

That's completely absurd.

Giroux has had one year playing 1st line minutes, being the #1 guy on a team. What does he do? He scores 93 points and leads his team through the first round with 14 points in 6 games. Kovalchuk is
Nowhere near the leader giroux is. Right now, if you ask anyone but a devils fan or a Russian person who they'd rather have to start a team with. They're going to say giroux. He just has "it". He's one of the hardest working players I've ever seen. He WANTS to be the best. He's always trying to make himself better. And he's done that. He's consistently worked on his defensive game and he's also worked himself into a very good faceoff man in this league. He plays ES, he plays the PP, he plays the PK. Giroux is better than Kovalchuk. His ship has sailed.

Oh, and

Giroux playoff stats: 46gp, 52p
Kovalchuk playoff stats: 16gp, 13p
Kovalchuk was the first Russian selected #1 overall for a reason. He's arguably a top 5 talent in the entire world. He's over 230 pounds and rock solid in terms of lower body strength. With all that said, he's prone to tunnel vision in that he sometimes doesn't use his teammates as effectively as he can. Giroux is a great player but in terms of sheer talent (shooting, skating, deking), he's not Kovalchuk. With all that said, Giroux may be considered the better player due to the other variables he brings to the table. He's a superior passer and has become more proficient at faceoffs.

so right now, IMHO in terms of raw talent Kovalchuk > Giroux. Overall better player is Giroux at the moment.


Last edited by Tundra: 04-27-2012 at 10:41 AM.
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04-27-2012, 10:42 AM
  #120
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Working during games 2 and 3 and probably 5 and 6

lame

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04-27-2012, 11:16 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Tundra View Post
Kovalchuk was the first Russian selected #1 overall for a reason. He's arguably a top 5 talent in the entire world. He's over 230 pounds and rock solid in terms of lower body strength. With all that said, he's prone to tunnel vision in that he sometimes doesn't use his teammates as effectively as he can. Giroux is a great player but in terms of sheer talent (shooting, skating, deking), he's not Kovalchuk. With all that said, Giroux may be considered the better player due to the other variables he brings to the table. He's a superior passer and has become more proficient at faceoffs.

so right now, IMHO in terms of raw talent Kovalchuk > Giroux. Overall better player is Giroux at the moment.
There's no such thing as raw talent. A player can only be judged based on his play, not on what someone thinks he COULD achieve, if, you know, all the stars aligned and all such ********. How do you know what he's "capable" of if he's not showing it? The last question is rhetorical, by the way.

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04-27-2012, 11:37 AM
  #122
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Just a question, how many teams before, have played only teams from there own division in the playoffs?

Premature, but a decent chance this happens.

Buffalo in 99 did it, but there must be more!


Last edited by Appleyard: 04-27-2012 at 11:52 AM.
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04-27-2012, 11:39 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tundra View Post
Kovalchuk's skillset and physical package is off the charts but Giroux has better hockey sense and peripheral vision.
Yeah that's what I'm saying. Kovy is more like a Jagr (in his prime) type player. He is a physical freak who can basically score at will. Giroux is more of an all around type player like Yzerman. He can score, play defense, set people up, etc. Not that either player is as good or will be as good as the player I compared them to, but that is the TYPE of player they are. You aren't going to want Jagr/Kovy out there to kill a penalty with a minute left in game seven if you have Giroux/Yzerman on the bench, just like if you absolutely needed a goal and had to choose between Kovy/Jagr (in his prime) and Giroux/Yzerman, you'd probably choose the Kovy/Jagr type player. Neither one is really better, it's just a matter of preference. Do you want pure offense with no defense or less offense but a more complete package? Simple as that.

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04-27-2012, 11:57 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Devils D looks like it can be exploited on the fore check
It was in 2010 by us as well. I don't think they have improved their defense enough to solve this problem.

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Old
04-27-2012, 12:00 PM
  #125
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Is Kovalchuck hurt? There is lots of talk that he is hurt.

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