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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 12.0

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Old
04-27-2012, 11:39 AM
  #76
Estimated_Prophet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Lowetide makes the case that Edmonton passes on Yakupov - http://lowetide.ca/blog/2012/04/read...ea-leaves.html

I hadn't read this before: "...NYís agent saying the Oilers hadnít been in touch..."

I remember the Oilers meeting the top candidates in a long, public process the last couple of times around.
We're still in April........plenty of time to meet with players.

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04-27-2012, 11:43 AM
  #77
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Montreal trade their 1st round pick + Pleckanec and Weber/Diaz for the Minnesota 1st round pick and Mikko Koivu.


To Min : 3ND overall pick 2012
Tomas Pleckanec
Yannick Weber

To Mtl : 7ND overall pick 2012 (Teuvo.T)
Mikko Koivu


I Don't see Weber get a place in the lineup.

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Old
04-27-2012, 11:43 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Edmonton might trade this asset to get a top-notch d-man.


People seems to think that it is a major crime to trade top-picks... I would like the habs to trade theirs.


Just look at the list of traded picks in the NFL. Almost every single teams in the top-ten traded their pick.


Apples and Oranges.

The NFL draft is almost completely done by need and the term BPA is almost irrelevant. Players are drafted to play on the big team the following season and are drafted to fill holes and address current needs.

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04-27-2012, 11:44 AM
  #79
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[QUOTE=Saopolo123;48926325]Montreal trade their 1st round pick + Pleckanec and Weber/Diaz for the Minnesota 1st round pick and Mikko Koivu.


To Min : 3ND overall pick 2012
Tomas Pleckanec
Yannick Weber

To Mtl : 7ND overall pick 2012 (Teuvo.T)
Mikko Koivu


I Don't see Weber get a place in the lineup.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately neither does Minnesota.......

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04-27-2012, 11:46 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
We're still in April........plenty of time to meet with players.
Right, and I'm sure they will meet Yakupov at some point. But, to not be in touch at all? It's now 3 weeks since Edmonton won the lottery. They've known they would have a top 5 pick for much longer than that. It has been 4 weeks since Sarnia's season ended.

To compare - both Grigorenko and Forsberg have said in interviews that they've had meetings with Timmins during the season.

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04-27-2012, 11:46 AM
  #81
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Watching Spezza try to play playoff hockey has put me firmly on the Forsberg - Galchenyuk side of the 1st rd. debate. That guy has just never learned. He still takes shifts off and makes defensive blunders. He's talented but not smart.

It sounds like this is a Ryan - Spezza type draft, so we're getting a talented kid - a first liner - but not a franchise player. Ryan is a talented kid as well but there is a reason why the Ducks almost had him traded this year. He's another one that takes shifts off and doesn't bring it every game.

I don't want an enigma. I'd much rather take an "effort" player who is also talented. Hopefully, we can grab one of Galchenyuk or Forsberg or a D-man if we think that's the BPA.

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04-27-2012, 11:47 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
What is illogical is referring to to kids that go outside of the 1st round as 1st rounders.........
I'm not really sure what you're talking about, first you say Subban, Lucic Bergeron not being first round picks and now you're not referring them to first round talent?

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04-27-2012, 11:48 AM
  #83
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[QUOTE=Estimated_Prophet;48926419]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saopolo123 View Post
Montreal trade their 1st round pick + Pleckanec and Weber/Diaz for the Minnesota 1st round pick and Mikko Koivu.


To Min : 3ND overall pick 2012
Tomas Pleckanec
Yannick Weber

To Mtl : 7ND overall pick 2012 (Teuvo.T)
Mikko Koivu


I Don't see Weber get a place in the lineup.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately neither does Minnesota.......
They trade Zidlicki and they don't having much of offensive D. I think if he get PP time they will like him.

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04-27-2012, 11:48 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Right, and I'm sure they will meet Yakupov at some point. But, to not be in touch at all? It's now 3 weeks since Edmonton won the lottery. They've known they would have a top 5 pick for much longer than that. It has been 4 weeks since Sarnia's season ended.

To compare - both Grigorenko and Forsberg have said in interviews that they've had meetings with Timmins during the season.
It certainly does sound odd but you have to consider the source....

Tambellini and co. are a pack of incompetent clowns so I guess nothing should really surprise me.

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04-27-2012, 11:53 AM
  #85
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[QUOTE=Saopolo123;48926609]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post

They trade Zidlicki and they don't having much of offensive D. I think if he get PP time they will like him.
I like Spurgeon more than Weber but I certainly wouldn't want both on my team.

Weber has a frequent healthy scratch on a team that finished 3rd last in the NHL with one of the worst power plays. If he was even remotely decent this season he could have earned a regular spot. IMO Weber is at best a #7 d-man/pp specialist.

I don't think he has any value outside of this particular discussion board.

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04-27-2012, 11:53 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
It certainly does sound odd but you have to consider the source....

Tambellini and co. are a pack of incompetent clowns so I guess nothing should really surprise me.
For sure. If a team like the Canucks, Wings or Flyers had the top pick, I wouldn't let myself get excited. But the fact that only Edmonton and Columbus are between us and Yakupov...

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04-27-2012, 11:55 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
There will be fallers. I'm with other who want Wilson, but like Biggs he'll be drafted in the first round. I wanted Biggs, too...



Zharkov ? Daniil Zharkov ? I thought he was a d for some reason. I still like him as a pick, though.

I'm also hoping for MacKenzie MacEachern. Could be an interesting pick, imo...

MacKenzie MacEachern...love his name. Koekkoek and Boo Nieves are also fabulous.

Not sure I'd take the gamble on Tom Wilson. HIs name is kind of bland and not many of those big lunks work out to be Milan Lucic. I'd rather go for Mark Jankowski, a real home run swing of a pick, or little Nikita Gusev.

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04-27-2012, 11:59 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockjngo View Post
I'm not really sure what you're talking about, first you say Subban, Lucic Bergeron not being first round picks and now you're not referring them to first round talent?

You aren't making any sense whatsoever my friend. You are putting words in my mouth.

If you want to quote me then feel free to do so, but don't attempt to paraphrase me. Anyways it sounds like we may not agree on this and that is fine. Just going to have to respect each others opinion.

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04-27-2012, 12:00 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
MacKenzie MacEachern...love his name. Koekkoek and Boo Nieves are also fabulous.

Not sure I'd take the gamble on Tom Wilson. HIs name is kind of bland and not many of those big lunks work out to be Milan Lucic. I'd rather go for Mark Jankowski, a real home run swing of a pick, or little Nikita Gusev.
Lol "his name is kind of bland." Are you serious? You're basing your selections on names???? That's amazing.

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04-27-2012, 12:05 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Lol "his name is kind of bland." Are you serious? You're basing your selections on names???? That's amazing.
Bah.....

It would only take a matter of minutes before this board would anoint Wilson with an exciting nickname....

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04-27-2012, 12:05 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by rockjngo View Post
I'm not really sure what you're talking about, first you say Subban, Lucic Bergeron not being first round picks and now you're not referring them to first round talent?
I believe he's alluding to the fact that if players are projected 1st rounders one year before the draft and start falling and end up being projected as 2nd rounders they have more risk than a player projected in the 3rd round (as an example) but is on the upswing and is now also projected as a 2nd rounders.

It's the opposite of the stock market, stock goes up you buy, stock goes down be careful. There's always exceptions of course but that sounds like a reasonnable rule.

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04-27-2012, 12:06 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by sXe View Post
I believe he's alluding to the fact that if players are projected 1st rounders one year before the draft and start falling and end up being projected as 2nd rounders they have more risk than a player projected in the 3rd round (as an example) but is on the upswing and is now also projected as a 2nd rounders.

It's the opposite of the stock market, stock goes up you buy, stock goes down be careful. There's always exceptions of course but that sounds like a reasonnable rule.
Thank you!!

A scholar and a gentleman.

People get too caught up in the rankings just prior to and during a prospects draft year. In reality it is just a snapshot in the course of a kids development at the age of 18. If the draft was to occur at the age of 19 then players like Lucic, Bergeron and Subban would have been ranked in the top 10.

Just because it is a particular players draft year doesn't mean that his production for that season is any sort of accurate indicator for future development. He could stagnate just as many did as 17 year olds or he could blossom as a 19/20 year old and easily surpass those that were ranked well ahead of him as a 17 year old.

It is a scouts job to determine a players projectability and there are many factors that are taken into consideration. This is something that Timmins clearly has a firm grasp on as he consistently lets the falling prospects go by him and takes the ones that he believes are taking a strong upward development curve.


Last edited by Estimated_Prophet: 04-27-2012 at 01:17 PM.
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04-27-2012, 12:49 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Thank you!!

A scholar and a gentleman.

People get too caught up in the rankings just prior to and during a prospects draft year. In reality it is just a snapshot in the course of a kids deveopment at the age of 18. If the draft was to occur at the age of 19 then players like Lucic, Bergeron and Subban would have been ranked in the top 10.

Just because it is a particular players draft year doesn't mean that his production for that season is any sort of accurate indicator for future development. He could stagnate just as many did as 17 year olds or he could blossom as a 19/20 year old and easily surpass those that were ranked well ahead of him as a 17 year old.

It is a scouts job to determine a players projectability and there are many factors that are taken into consideration. This is something that Timmins clearly has a firm grasp on as he consistently lets the falling prospects go by him and takes the ones that he believes are taking a strong upward development curve.


That.

And let's not forget that this year's draft is much harder to predict based on the fact that the players in this draft (expected to go in the 1st two rounds) all fit into similar categories. So the #3 projected pick could end up at #10, #15 at #30, etc. Many dmen are all of the top 4 projected type, even into the 2nd rd. The forwards mostly fall into the 2nd/3rd line types.

It's a very open draft, so it all falls onto team scouts and who they like best.

We can all argue who is better
Koekkoek or Pouliot
Wilson/Frk

But you are right, it all comes down to what a PRO scout thinks the upside of a player really is.



All that said though, only my picks will pan out

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04-27-2012, 12:54 PM
  #94
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If you look at the projected top 4 defencemen they would be exactly what an expansion team would want for a top 4 d.

Murray - Dumba
Rielly - Trouba.

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04-27-2012, 12:57 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halifaxhab
That.

And let's not forget that this year's draft is much harder to predict based on the fact that the players in this draft (expected to go in the 1st two rounds) all fit into similar categories. So the #3 projected pick could end up at #10, #15 at #30, etc. Many dmen are all of the top 4 projected type, even into the 2nd rd. The forwards mostly fall into the 2nd/3rd line types.

It's a very open draft, so it all falls onto team scouts and who they like best.

We can all argue who is better
Koekkoek or Pouliot
Wilson/Frk

But you are right, it all comes down to what a PRO scout thinks the upside of a player really is.



All that said though, only my picks will pan out


I hope Timmins has you on speed dial


Last edited by Blind Gardien: 04-27-2012 at 03:31 PM.
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04-27-2012, 01:23 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by MarkovsKnee View Post
Watching Spezza try to play playoff hockey has put me firmly on the Forsberg - Galchenyuk side of the 1st rd. debate. That guy has just never learned. He still takes shifts off and makes defensive blunders. He's talented but not smart.

It sounds like this is a Ryan - Spezza type draft, so we're getting a talented kid - a first liner - but not a franchise player. Ryan is a talented kid as well but there is a reason why the Ducks almost had him traded this year. He's another one that takes shifts off and doesn't bring it every game.

I don't want an enigma. I'd much rather take an "effort" player who is also talented. Hopefully, we can grab one of Galchenyuk or Forsberg or a D-man if we think that's the BPA.
Completely agree with you.

We need to develop a culture of hard work and perserverance and the best way to do this is to have your top players lead the way. We have an opportunity to draft an offensive leader who can set the bar for things such as compete level and courage. It is all fine and dandy to have your Moens and Gorges but in order to get the skill players to buy in you need a skill player to lead them.

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04-27-2012, 01:25 PM
  #97
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[QUOTE=Estimated_Prophet;48926839]
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Originally Posted by Saopolo123 View Post

I like Spurgeon more than Weber but I certainly wouldn't want both on my team.

Weber has a frequent healthy scratch on a team that finished 3rd last in the NHL with one of the worst power plays. If he was even remotely decent this season he could have earned a regular spot. IMO Weber is at best a #7 d-man/pp specialist.

I don't think he has any value outside of this particular discussion board.
Actually, I think that Weber is being grossly underrated on these boards. He does have his shortcomings, but early on in the season, he was possibly our best d-man. His early-season swagger never really recovered after being bounced around between the 4th line, the press box, and the bottom D pairing. He's still young, and I like how he battles down low. He needs to improve his positional play, especially in front of the crease, but a lot of his struggles just stem from his decreased confidence. He was actually usually playing a sound positional game early in the season. Finally, despite limited minutes and fewer games, he managed to rank 16th in the NHL in power play goals by a defenseman, which ain't too shabby. Our PP's inadequacy is more a reflection of the Habs' lack of talent up front as opposed to Weber not being good enough to play the point.

A shrewd talent evaluator can poach Weber for next to nothing thanks to the Habs abysmal asset management practices, consistently driving down players' value before moving these assets out.

Looking at the Habs depth on D, I'm not sure there's room for a guy like a Weber on a D corps that's already low on physicality (only Subban and Emelin can be considered as an intimidating physical presence on D). However, a team that's low on offensive talent from the back end should definitely take a look at a guy like Weber who's already proving to be one of the better goal-scoring threats in the entire league on the PP from the point.

All this to say that I believe Weber likely still holds some decent value in the eyes of some teams, and the draft could be a good time to look to trade him in order to acquire different assets and/or move up/down the draft.

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04-27-2012, 01:32 PM
  #98
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[QUOTE=NRG87;48931139]
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post

Actually, I think that Weber is being grossly underrated on these boards. He does have his shortcomings, but early on in the season, he was possibly our best d-man. His early-season swagger never really recovered after being bounced around between the 4th line, the press box, and the bottom D pairing. He's still young, and I like how he battles down low. He needs to improve his positional play, especially in front of the crease, but a lot of his struggles just stem from his decreased confidence. He was actually usually playing a sound positional game early in the season. Finally, despite limited minutes and fewer games, he managed to rank 16th in the NHL in power play goals by a defenseman, which ain't too shabby. Our PP's inadequacy is more a reflection of the Habs' lack of talent up front as opposed to Weber not being good enough to play the point.

A shrewd talent evaluator can poach Weber for next to nothing thanks to the Habs abysmal asset management practices, consistently driving down players' value before moving these assets out.

Looking at the Habs depth on D, I'm not sure there's room for a guy like a Weber on a D corps that's already low on physicality (only Subban and Emelin can be considered as an intimidating physical presence on D). However, a team that's low on offensive talent from the back end should definitely take a look at a guy like Weber who's already proving to be one of the better goal-scoring threats in the entire league on the PP from the point.

All this to say that I believe Weber likely still holds some decent value in the eyes of some teams, and the draft could be a good time to look to trade him in order to acquire different assets and/or move up/down the draft.
I will take whatever we can get for him.

Weber basically played himself right off of the starting roster by being too passive and weak in the d-zone and by making terrible decisions on the PP. His only real asset is his shot as he just doesn't think the game very well and is atrocious at keeping the puck in the O zone during the pp.

I hope you are right and someone shows enough faith in him to offer us a decent asset for him.........just not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen.




Why the **** does it say that I am quoting/responding to myself?????? Second time today....

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04-27-2012, 01:40 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post

I will take whatever we can get for him.

Weber basically played himself right off of the starting roster by being too passive and weak in the d-zone and by making terrible decisions on the PP. His only real asset is his shot as he just doesn't think the game very well and is atrocious at keeping the puck in the O zone during the pp.

I hope you are right and someone shows enough faith in him to offer us a decent asset for him.........just not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen.




Why the **** does it say that I am quoting/responding to myself?????? Second time today....
You messed up the quote tag in one of your earlier posts, had a domino affect.

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04-27-2012, 01:51 PM
  #100
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You messed up the quote tag in one of your earlier posts, had a domino affect.
Thanks......I was just on way out the door to try and get a lithium script.

Norman Bates ain't got nothing on me!!

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