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Giroux not a finalist for the Hart Trophy?

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Old
04-27-2012, 03:48 PM
  #51
Crossbar Ping
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No, the Flyers would not have made the playoffs without Giroux having a great year. I watched probably 65 of the 82 games , straight up.

He really did deserve it, but whatever its just NHL politics at work. People are bound to get looked over. Meh.

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04-27-2012, 03:50 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
Stamkos had no business getting the nod over Quick or Giroux.

Stamkos is so valuable to his team that they didn't make the playoffs.

Cool he scored 60 goals, that's why we have the Rocket Richard to give him recognition for his statistics. He was be no means an MVP candidate this season.
Boom.

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04-27-2012, 04:31 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
Someone on twitter made a great point...

If Homer isn't a nominee for GM of the Year, Read isnt a nominee for Calder and Giroux isn't a nominee for Hart, who should be credited for Flyers' success?
The case for Laviolette being coach of the year becomes greater.


Giroux is going to end up in the Top 5, and that's not a bad place to be. Personally, Quick is my Hart, but he plays all those late starts so mediatypes are too lazy to stay up and watch.

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04-27-2012, 04:57 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markzab View Post
Your logic is flawless. Good job.
You clearly have your mind made up, and so do I. Why waste time going into detail when it won't make a difference to you?

EDIT: Here is my logic


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04-27-2012, 05:06 PM
  #55
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I don't have a problem with no Giroux, but Stamkos shouldn't be on the list. Karlsson should be on the Hart Trophy list, just shouldn't be a finalist for the Norris.

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04-27-2012, 05:10 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICAPNASTYI View Post
You clearly have your mind made up, and so do I. Why waste time going into detail when it won't make a difference to you?

EDIT: Here is my logic

If that's your logic then Stamkos' 97 points still wins out.

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04-27-2012, 05:40 PM
  #57
ICAPNASTYI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If that's your logic then Stamkos' 97 points still wins out.
I'm not arguing that he should have gotten a nomination over him. Someone said that the Flyers would have made the playoffs without Giroux.

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04-27-2012, 06:06 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
^^^^^^^^
||||||||||||

Shocked the above are Flyer fans. Giroux is the MVP. Period. Best player in the league this year. SO much more valuable than the players who play purely offense. PK, PP, 5 on 5, shutdown, playmaker. HE does it all. MVP. Malkin is pure offense. Stamkos couldn't get his team into the playoffs, so how valuable can you be when you take your team from playoffs last year to 10th this year? Goalies have their own trophy. Goalies have their own trophy and shouldn't be part of the discussion.
Shocked, why? Because we are capable of objectivity? And shutdown? He's great in other areas but shutting guys down isn't one of them. I'd say his defensive game has regressed this season.

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04-27-2012, 06:31 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICAPNASTYI View Post
I'm not arguing that he should have gotten a nomination over him. Someone said that the Flyers would have made the playoffs without Giroux.
I don't see why they wouldn't have. They were 14 ahead of the team in 9th. You mean to tell me that Giroux is worth 14 points more than whomever would have been replacing him? No one else on this team could have stepped up and gotten this team to 90 points? The Sabres (or one of the other teams that missed the playoffs) are better than the Flyers if they don't have Giroux? Come on.

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04-27-2012, 06:43 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I don't see why they wouldn't have. They were 14 ahead of the team in 9th. You mean to tell me that Giroux is worth 14 points more than whomever would have been replacing him? No one else on this team could have stepped up and gotten this team to 90 points? The Sabres (or one of the other teams that missed the playoffs) are better than the Flyers if they don't have Giroux? Come on.
I think its a very fair argument. You are just factoring in Giroux's 91 points. How about him on the pk or even on the PP how he would have players hover towards him leaving his teammates open. Giroux commanded respect from other teams defense. There is no other 3 mil forwards out there that would of made up what Giroux did. I think the Flyers would have been fighting for the 8th spot, maybe miss out. You are underrating the other parts of Giroux's game. He is not just a points guy. Also, I am assuming that you think Hartnell would all of a sudden have his best season even without playing on Giroux's line?

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04-27-2012, 06:52 PM
  #61
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meh, Im perfectly fine with him just winning the Conn Smythe this year .

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04-27-2012, 06:54 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I think its a very fair argument. You are just factoring in Giroux's 91 points. How about him on the pk or even on the PP how he would have players hover towards him leaving his teammates open. Giroux commanded respect from other teams defense. There is no other 3 mil forwards out there that would of made up what Giroux did. I think the Flyers would have been fighting for the 8th spot, maybe miss out. You are underrating the other parts of Giroux's game. He is not just a points guy. Also, I am assuming that you think Hartnell would all of a sudden have his best season even without playing on Giroux's line?
I'm not saying they would have been the #5 seed, but I just don't think that the Sabres (or anyone below Buffalo) are better than a Giroux-less Flyers team. Of course Hartnell would not have had 37 goals and whomever replaced Giroux would not have had 93 points or whatever he had. But I think you could count on anywhere from 40-60 points from whomever they got replace him. Take Giroux out and plug in a different player and this team is still better than the lottery teams. Giroux is good, but I really don't think that he is 14 points better than whomever his replacement would be. WAR or whatever?

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04-27-2012, 10:17 PM
  #63
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Before the season started some fans (including myself) weren't even sure if the Flyers would make it to the Playoffs this year. A large part of that had to do with the fact that no one really knew Giroux would have this kind of season. Yeah there were a lot of new players and we weren't sure if everyone would "Gel" in time, but we also assumed Giroux would have another 70 point season.

Honestly, I don't see how it's so ludicrous to believe that we don't make the Playoffs without him.


Edit: Oh and we went 2-2-1 without him this year.

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04-28-2012, 01:11 AM
  #64
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Stamkos kept the Lightning from getting the first overall pick. In that light, he is their least valuable player.

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04-28-2012, 01:53 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drownedsailors View Post
Honestly, I don't see how it's so ludicrous to believe that we don't make the Playoffs without him.

Edit: Oh and we went 2-2-1 without him this year.
And on the same token, I don't see how it's so ludicrous to think we would make the playoffs without him.

In fact I find it almost insulting to the great team we had that some think without Giroux the season was a dump.

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Old
04-28-2012, 02:45 AM
  #66
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Quick should've been nominated for this season, but Lundqvist has been so good for so long. I think he got it on the strength of being on the short end of the Vezina votes for several years (plus some merit too obviously).

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04-28-2012, 10:11 AM
  #67
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Off topic, but that looks like fencing on ice.


Last edited by CSKA1974: 07-17-2012 at 12:18 PM.
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Old
04-28-2012, 11:29 AM
  #68
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I think he was more valuable to his team than Lundqvuist, but I dont like goalies being considered for that award in the first place.

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04-28-2012, 01:23 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markzab View Post
And on the same token, I don't see how it's so ludicrous to think we would make the playoffs without him.

In fact I find it almost insulting to the great team we had that some think without Giroux the season was a dump.


We finished in 5th place!!! We were one point over the 6th place New Jersey Devils...That doesn't scream "great" to me. I mean it's not like we won the Conference or anything, or had a "dominate" season. It's funny how quickly people forget that at one point we were playing .500 hockey in February.

If we lost 5 more games we would have been in the pack of OTT, WSH, BUF, WPG and TBL fighting for a Playoffs spot.

Lucky for us, the Flyers played really well in March and into April and that's what separated our team from the pack. Giroux, coincidently, had 21 points during that stretch...but I'm sure our "Great" team didn't even need that

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04-28-2012, 02:39 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markzab View Post
I don't disagree with this. The reason the Flyers did so well this year was because we were getting scoring from areas of our line up that nobody had expected. Giroux is not the reason we made the playoffs, and I'd even dare say had he not been here we still make them without him. Our forwards were amazing this year.

PS. Love Giroux. No disrespect.
I agree with this. Giroux is probably within top 5, top 7 somewhere in the voting. We're a team of depth more than star power however, which is highlighted by all these "snubs".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikke View Post
Doesn't matter really, Malkin will win it anyway. Sure, I agree G deserves it more than Stamkos, but who cares?
G has his sights set on two other shiny objects, the Conn Smythe and the Stanley Cup. Stamkos is shining his iron set.
That would be ok with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilAsh View Post
Is anybody really surprised by this? He will be recognized next year. It always takes a couple of dominant seasons before a player get noticed by the NHL higher ups.
This is true as well. This is probably the reason Lundqvist's nominated and not Quick (who should have won, imo). He's had a few really great seasons where he's carried the Rangers team and made them at leas fight for a playoff spot. He's being rewarded for that now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
The player who should be most upset is Quick. As a richards fan i watched more LA games than I care to admit and Quick was the only reason they made the 8th seed. He is a special Goaltender for sure and Capable of putting any team on his back for large stretches at a time. Few goalies can say that.
Yeah, the Kings would have been in Blue Jackets territory without Quick this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
^^^^^^^^
||||||||||||

Shocked the above are Flyer fans. Giroux is the MVP. Period. Best player in the league this year. SO much more valuable than the players who play purely offense. PK, PP, 5 on 5, shutdown, playmaker. HE does it all. MVP. Malkin is pure offense. Stamkos couldn't get his team into the playoffs, so how valuable can you be when you take your team from playoffs last year to 10th this year? Goalies have their own trophy. Goalies have their own trophy and shouldn't be part of the discussion.
Eh, have you not seen Giroux and Jagr play "defense" this year? Giroux is better defensively than Malkin or Stamkos, but that's not saying that much. He could be a really good two-way center as well, but that would require him giving up some offensive production.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
I don't have a problem with no Giroux, but Stamkos shouldn't be on the list. Karlsson should be on the Hart Trophy list, just shouldn't be a finalist for the Norris.
This season for Stamkos is something special. That the rest of the Lightning (with the poaaible exception of St.Louis) has sucked, isn't really his fault. Among active players only Selšnne, Jagr and Ovechkin have a 60-goal season or better to their name. And for Selšnne and Jagr it was some time ago. Take away Stamkos 60 goals from the Lightning and they are dead last in scoring (from 9th place). Compare that to Malkin and his 50 goals for the Pens, without them the go from 1st to 9th place.

There are arguments for Karlsson's case for sure, and I'm positive that he is one of those guys finishing just outside of the top 3 in voting together with Quick and Giroux.

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Old
04-29-2012, 12:41 AM
  #71
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Who cares? Malkin has the Hart wrapped up anyway, and he deserves it. Nobody is going to remember who the nominees were a year from now, just the winner.

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Old
04-29-2012, 07:23 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
Who cares? Malkin has the Hart wrapped up anyway, and he deserves it. Nobody is going to remember who the nominees were a year from now, just the winner.
Exactly. And this is the type of shat that gives other people ammo about us overrating Giroux. He's still short 2 scoring titles, a hart, a conn smyth, and a cup from comparing to Malkin. Let's just let this unfold and maybe he'll do the same. But to this point, I'm giving the Conn Smyth to Briere if it ended today.

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Old
04-30-2012, 02:01 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
PHI with Giroux: 5th seed. PHI w/o Giroux: Likely still in playoffs
PIT with Malkin: 4th seed. PIT w/o Malkin: Likely still in playoffs
TBL with Stamkos: No playoffs. TBL w/o Stamkos: Likely battling for Nail
NY with Lundqvist: 1st seed. NY w/o Lundqvist: Most likely don't make the playoffs
LA with Quick: 8th seed. LA without Quick: Most likely last place.

Quick or Hank should win imo. I'm fine with Giroux missing it. I'm not fine with Malkin winning.
I would say NY w/o lundqvist = 7 or 8 seed, 1st round exit
Lundqvist = .930 sv%, average goalie = .913%, difference is around 29 goals for the season putting the rangers at a +10 differential. Every team with a positive differential made it this season (these are some VERY loose assumptions btw), so I'd say the rangers would've snuck in as either the 7th or 8th seed.

But still, bubble team versus eastern conference champs is a pretty big difference.

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Old
04-30-2012, 07:54 AM
  #74
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They can have the Hart. Giroux will take the cup, instead.

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Old
04-30-2012, 08:40 AM
  #75
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For the Rangers, it all depends on who you're replacing Lundqvist with. Put any of the top 20-25 goalies behind that D in that system and you're pretty much guaranteed to have a playoff spot. I'd even say a top 5 seed is very probable.

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