Pavs is near untouchable in my book. Amazing in the regular season, offensively and defensively. Plays on both special teams, isn't fast but he can keep up. Need overpayment to trade him, top 6 player a good prospect, and a pick.
Pavs is near untouchable in my book. Amazing in the regular season, offensively and defensively. Plays on both special teams, isn't fast but he can keep up. Need overpayment to trade him, top 6 player a good prospect, and a pick.
It's tough because I largely agree with you, and have no desire to see him go. That said, I doubt many other teams value him this high, and I'm wondering why the disconnect? No one is lined up to overpay for Pavs, so why are we so (over)committed to him?
I would trade him for the right person, as much as I appreciate his "leadership" and "drive" I do think you can get enough back to make it worthwhile. There are other players I would move first but still, I dont view anyone short of JT as untouchable.
If we're trading Pavs, then I want a return similar to what Mike Richards fetched. They're pretty comparable players so that's a good basis for comparison.
A bonafide top 6 fwd (like Schenn), a solid tweener (like Simmonds) and a 2nd or 3rd round pick.
Off the top of my head, here's the teams that I think would have a need for Pavelski:
Anaheim, Chicago, Columbus, Edmonton, Buffalo, and Washington. All teams that need a hard-minutes #2C to take the edge off their primary scorers or because their current hard-minute center is not effective.
Peter Holland + 6th overall is something we've been offered up from Anaheim, which I really, really like. We could select Teuvo Teravainen with that pick.
Marcus Johansson + Colorado's 1st from Washington is something I think I've seen for Pavelski, which is also interesting, although admittedly I don't know exactly where that pick falls.
I lurked a lot in the Chicago forum, and I no longer think Stalberg could be a main piece for Pavelski (lots of guys that really don't like him and want him a healthy scratch against some teams styles, and a really strange Mod that loves Kruger). But their pick is probably somewhere around a little later than ours, so they'd have to add considerably, like a top-end prospect.
Buffalo likes low-balling us, but a package would start with their 1st (10th overall, I think) and add a prospect.
Marcus Johansson + Colorado's 1st from Washington is something I think I've seen for Pavelski, which is also interesting, although admittedly I don't know exactly where that pick falls.
I'd rather trade Marleau for that package, suggested as such in a dif thread, forget which. Seeing how Washington is one of those rare teams that are in contention that Marleau would waive to and have young assets/picks (high enough) for us.
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Peter Holland + 6th overall is something we've been offered up from Anaheim, which I really, really like. We could select Teuvo Teravainen with that pick.
Would rather have Palmieri, but that works if you think so. 6th Pick would have Forsberg available right? Wouldn't rather have him?
Agree with KM, if Pavs is going to Chicago, Sharp better be coming back.
I'd rather trade Marleau for that package, suggested as such in a dif thread, forget which. Seeing how Washington is one of those rare teams that are in contention that Marleau would waive to and have young assets/picks (high enough) for us.
Would rather have Palmieri, but that works if you think so. 6th Pick would have Forsberg available right? Wouldn't rather have him?
Agree with KM, if Pavs is going to Chicago, Sharp better be coming back.
I was actually thinking about Marleau to Washington, I think he'd be a fantastic fit in Washington. But I value Marleau more than Pavelski.
And I don't think Anaheim wants to give up Palmieri.
I was actually thinking about Marleau to Washington, I think he'd be a fantastic fit in Washington. But I value Marleau more than Pavelski.
And I don't think Anaheim wants to give up Palmieri.
Fair points.
Marleau being shipped instead allows us more cap flexibility, creating more options etc...
Assuming we pick up another mid 1st, do you think that'll give us enough to trade up to 2? Maybe even 1? You think Edmonton goes Yakupov for sure? I would love Bure-lite on this team.
Marleau for MJ+ Col 1.
Col & SJ 1sts +Demers (?) + 2013 2nd for 1 overall a good enough framework? Would part with Clowe here too in lieu of 2nd and Demers. Gives Edmonton enough ammo to go #6-8 to pick up Ryan Murray doesn't it? ...or you think he goes #4 to NYI?
I think I like the Anaheim deal the best, if it means Forsberg.
I like both the Clowe (to TOR) and either of the deals for Pavelski. I'd also wouldn't mind trading Marleau (if he waives) and Boyle.
We'd really be able to accelerate a rebuild doing that. It'd be much bolder than what Holmgren did, too.
I know it's painful for some fans, who want minor tweaks to think about, but to me, it would overhaul the team in such a way that we'd become contenders (again) pretty quickly after the 2014 season and who knows, maybe with lower expectations over the next 2 seasons, the team surprises.
Right now, it just seems that there's way too much pressure on this current team and they lack the mental toughness to withstand it. As a result, they don't play as well as they can. The only way to ease up on the pressure significantly is through a significant rebuild.
I like both the Clowe (to TOR) and either of the deals for Pavelski. I'd also wouldn't mind trading Marleau (if he waives) and Boyle.
We'd really be able to accelerate a rebuild doing that. It'd be much bolder than what Holmgren did, too.
I know it's painful for some fans, who want minor tweaks to think about, but to me, it would overhaul the team in such a way that we'd become contenders (again) pretty quickly after the 2014 season and who knows, maybe with lower expectations over the next 2 seasons, the team surprises.
Right now, it just seems that there's way too much pressure on this current team and they lack the mental toughness to withstand it. As a result, they don't play as well as they can. The only way to ease up on the pressure significantly is through a significant rebuild.
Dealing Marleau instead of Pavs probably allows us to keep Boyle. I love Boyle, so... yeah. Boyle probably has the rarer skillset, would hate to lose his fiery demeanor. The extended offseason probably does him some good.
With that said, if we can get Hagelin+ for him, I'd be ok with that.
Small attempt at 3 way trade framework:
Wash: Marleau - They'd probably require more to part with Alzner, not sure what their D prospects look like. Maybe add Demers here?
Edmonton: Alzner, SJ 1st -14 spot drop to get a better D man than they would get. Ready now. Maybe add Clowe here?
SJ: #1 overall- Yakupov -Self explanatory. Don't think Yakupov is generational, so I doubt his value is that astronomical.
Dealing Marleau instead of Pavs probably allows us to keep Boyle. I love Boyle, so... yeah. Boyle probably has the rarer skillset, would hate to lose his fiery demeanor. The extended offseason probably does him some good.
With that said, if we can get Hagelin+ for him, I'd be ok with that.
Small attempt at 3 way trade framework:
Wash: Marleau - They'd probably require more to part with Alzner, not sure what their D prospects look like. Maybe add Demers here?
Edmonton: Alzner, SJ 1st -14 spot drop to get a better D man than they would get. Ready now. Maybe add Clowe here?
SJ: #1 overall- Yakupov -Self explanatory. Don't think Yakupov is generational, so I doubt his value is that astronomical.
Not liking that. Marleau, our 1st and maybe Clowe + Demers for EDM's 1st? Too much from our side.
Not liking that. Marleau, our 1st and maybe Clowe + Demers for EDM's 1st? Too much from our side.
Maybe... I'd rather give up Clowe/Demers than future 1s though. Gives us more cap flexibility. We drop nearly 8mil (assuming Yak gets ~3m) in salary here. In retrospect, I don't think it's enough, 14 spots to the top spot probably warrants a bit more. You get a cost controlled player for the next 6-7 years IIRC? You could throw that $ savings like a drunken prom date attempt at wooing Suter/Parise and we still come out ahead IMO.
I'm mid flight, with very little sleep though, so I could be off my rocker.
Yakupov/JT/x
x/Couture/x
x/Pavs/x
...with tons of money to spend? I'd take it. Could cash out Boyle for Hagelin+ to drop even more cash. It would give us that on the fly rebuild that I think SJSE needs. Don't think they can fiscally afford a rebuild.
Completely dependent upon return. With this team, any highly skilled scoring forward with speed should be considered before the window closes, if not already closed. Love Pavs, he is as clutch as we have. If someone was willing to overpay in an area of need, I think he should be strongly considered for being moved.
I'd love to deal Pavs for Palmieri and the 1st. That would be a tremendous deal.
I would too, but we'd have to add. Pavelski and Hamilton maybe?
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island
I like both the Clowe (to TOR) and either of the deals for Pavelski. I'd also wouldn't mind trading Marleau (if he waives) and Boyle.
We'd really be able to accelerate a rebuild doing that. It'd be much bolder than what Holmgren did, too.
If you're going to go that far, you might as well trade Thornton too. If you're going to trade Marleau, Boyle and Clowe/Pavelski, we probably aren't contending for the cup in the next couple years. I know everyone's drooling over "the Philly model" but Richards and Carter were big name 26 year old players. Plus they have Giroux. We may get a similar return for Pavelski, but not even close for Marleau and Boyle. We'd get some nice futures, but not a Couturier, a Schenn, a Voracek, and a Simmonds. Philly caught lightning in a bottle this summer. We will not get those types of returns.
If you're going to trade Marleau, Boyle, Clowe/Pavelski and keep Thornton, then by the time we're ready to contend again, Joe is 36/37 and it's too late. If we're going that far, just do it all the way. Either full rebuild or minor tweaks. I really don't see much in between, given the ages and contracts of our tradable assets.
I think Pavelski is close to untouchable. But if a DW gets a trade offer he can't refuse (not sure what that'd be), then I wouldn't mind if it helps the team. I'd hate to see him traded, though.
I would too, but we'd have to add. Pavelski and Hamilton maybe?
If that's the sticking point between making that trade happen, you do it but I sincerely doubt they would need to add. The Ducks are getting the best player in the deal from a team within their division...they have to overpay.
