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Markham Arena II

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Old
04-28-2012, 05:00 PM
  #126
JMROWE
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
1) That confrence report never ever said anything about Markham
2) The NHL decides compensation
I put Markham in brackets beside Toronto

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04-28-2012, 05:23 PM
  #127
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there are a few reasons why Markham will get a team before Hamilton...

1) Name recognition. Easier to market another "Toronto" team in the states.

2) Zero impact on the Sabres

3) Leafs are maxed out revenue-wise and there is still lots of scratch to be made in the GTA.

4) Now that Bell & Rogers will be owning the Leafs, it's going to make for an easier road to put another team in the GTA. it's all about programming to them.

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04-28-2012, 05:26 PM
  #128
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Let's not forget Hamilton had a team up until the moment Ron Joyce tried to "bargain" the $50 million expansion fee... so Ottawa got the team instead.

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04-28-2012, 05:36 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by RPM View Post
there are a few reasons why Markham will get a team before Hamilton...

1) Name recognition. Easier to market another "Toronto" team in the states.

I don't buy this one.

Take a look at road attendance. Most are pretty strong across the board.

The bottom 3 attendance (%) wise are Los Angeles, Dallas, and Minnesota
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/sort/awayPct

The bottom 3 attendance (avg) wise are Los Angeles, Dallas, and Anaheim
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/sort/awayAvg

I'd attribute that to those teams being in Phoenix's division ( Minnesota in Columbus' division)


What this says is that it's more important to have teams that have strong home attendance, or franchises in strong hockey markets.

It doesn't eally matter where the team is from. It's an NHL team.

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04-28-2012, 05:38 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by RPM View Post
Let's not forget Hamilton had a team up until the moment Ron Joyce tried to "bargain" the $50 million expansion fee... so Ottawa got the team instead.

I don't buy that B.S. either. Hamilton met all the criteria, while both Tampa and Ottawa almost none. Ron Joyce, Tim Horton's owener, was not allowed to discuss indemnification. Why?

The fix was in.

BTW, RPM, welcome to the boards!


Last edited by Hamilton Tigers: 04-28-2012 at 11:01 PM.
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04-28-2012, 05:42 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers View Post
I don't buy that B.S. either. Hamilton met all the criteria, while both Tampa and Ottawa almost none.

The fix was in.
Preach

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04-28-2012, 05:42 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers View Post
I don't buy this one.

Take a look at road attendance. Most are pretty strong across the board.

The bottom 3 attendance (%) wise are Los Angeles, Dallas, and Minnesota
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/sort/awayPct

The bottom 3 attendance (avg) wise are Los Angeles, Dallas, and Anaheim
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/sort/awayAvg

I'd attribute that to those teams being in Phoenix's division ( Minnesota in Columbus' division)


What this says is that it's more important to have teams that have strong home attendance, or franchises in strong hockey markets.

It doesn't eally matter where the team is from. It's an NHL team.
I've said this countless times, I'd be mainly concerned with watching my team, the home team. The only thing that may make the game more desirable is the quality of the visiting team. where they are from means nothing, afterall they are in the same league.

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04-28-2012, 06:25 PM
  #133
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I agree with Hamilton Tigers Hamilton had everything going them in the expansion year but thanks to guys like Harlod Ballard & Seymore Knox with with help of John Ziegler it was all to easy to stab Ron Joyce & Hamilton in the back & all have to say I am glad Seymore Knox & Harold Ballard are dead & are rooting in hell & havving flamming pitchforks ramed up there ***** until time stops & hope the exact thing happens Ziegler when he dies too .

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04-28-2012, 06:50 PM
  #134
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How many times to I have say this the greatest unserved NHL. market in North America is on the western side of lake Ontario in places like Hamilton , Kitchener\Waterloo , Niagara region & the rest of southwestern Ontario not Toronto (GTA.) they only want a team to inflate there own ego & try be like a New York or a Los Angeles which they are not Toronto is more like a hybrid of Chicago & Philadelphia not the best cities to compared to . There is no way they will get any one from Hamilton , The KW. , Niagara region & the rest of southwestern Ontario to support a TO2 team in Markham hell they would have tough enough time trying convert hardcore leaf fans to the 2nd banana Toronto team in the GTA. alone . I think in the end all markham is going to have is a 400 million dollar white elephant of an arena that has no garrentee of any kind of a permanent tenent that it will be years before that arena sees any kind of a profit .

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04-28-2012, 07:04 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
How many times to I have say ...
No more, please.

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04-28-2012, 07:05 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by RPM View Post
there are a few reasons why Markham will get a team before Hamilton...

2) Zero impact on the Sabres
Zero impact?

Many hockey fans in Southern Ontario can now travel less to see a game by going to Markham, and don't have to deal with border hassles. Plus this new team would have games televised in Southern Ontario (unlike the Sabres) - which can turn a few Sabres fans into Toronto2 fans and will give future generations more reason to be Toronto2 fans (instead of Sabre fans).

People don't pay attention to invisible territorial lines.

Much like a team in Hamilton, you can bet the Sabres will also feel threatened about a team in Markham.

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04-28-2012, 07:06 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers View Post
No more, please.

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04-28-2012, 07:08 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers View Post
I don't buy that B.S. either. Hamilton met all the criteria, while both Tampa and Ottawa almost none. Ron Joyce, Tim Hoton's owener, was not allowed to discuss indemniication. Why?

The fix was in.
At the time it happened, Phil Esposito (who was part of the Tampa Bay expansion and had insider knowledge) came right out and said that Toronto interfered with a team coming to Hamilton.

Anyway, no more about Hamilton... this is about a team in Markham.

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04-28-2012, 07:32 PM
  #139
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Much like a team in Hamilton, you can bet the Sabres will also feel threatened about a team in Markham.
Toronto , Markham and Hamilton seem to be all rearing to go but every time I hear your going to hurt/kill the Sabres!! are they that fragile where they need a another country for assistance? ? if so then it really tells you something about the Buffalo Market because if the shoe was on the other foot with Hamilton having a Established team and Buffalo looking to get in their would be far less of an issue.

And before anyone gets offended I do believe Buffalo is a great Hockey town on its own merits.


uh oh ,can you hear that? the Sabre fans are coming to defend their honor... hide

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04-28-2012, 07:36 PM
  #140
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Of course I agree that the Sabres would be fine, especially with an owner like Pegula.


Last edited by Hamilton Tigers: 04-28-2012 at 11:02 PM.
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04-28-2012, 07:38 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
You guys want know somthing whille we are here bickerring away about who is better market Hamilton \ Markham \ Quebec City Gary Bettman & jolly gang of morons are sitting back laughing at us whille they plan to do stupid things to are national past time like trying hopeless crusade to save the Coyotes & thinkking of more stupid markets for hockey to expand to like Las Vegas or how about hawaii or new mexico anyything but Canada huh Gary . The fact is that Hamilton , Quebec City & Toronto 2 all can support & deserve NHL. teams I just think Hamilton & Quebec City should get there teams first because they have been waitting the longest & Toronto can afford to wait a little bit longer for a 2nd team . What I am trying to get at is that we have all turned on each other whille we have lost sight of who the true enemy is & that enemy is Gary Bettman his lacky Bill Daily & the rest of his jolly gang of morons .

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04-28-2012, 09:07 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by berklon View Post
Zero impact?

Many hockey fans in Southern Ontario can now travel less to see a game by going to Markham, and don't have to deal with border hassles. Plus this new team would have games televised in Southern Ontario (unlike the Sabres) - which can turn a few Sabres fans into Toronto2 fans and will give future generations more reason to be Toronto2 fans (instead of Sabre fans).

People don't pay attention to invisible territorial lines.

Much like a team in Hamilton, you can bet the Sabres will also feel threatened about a team in Markham.
If the Sabres feel threatened by a team in Markham, which is over a 2 hour drive away from Buffalo, then perhaps they shouldn't be in Buffalo.

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04-28-2012, 09:44 PM
  #143
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If the Sabres feel threatened by a team in Markham, which is over a 2 hour drive away from Buffalo, then perhaps they shouldn't be in Buffalo.
Pegula (nor anyone from the Sabres front office that Im aware of) hasnt commented on the matter so its hard to say. From what little I do now about the guy, cashing out with a sale of his resource business to the tune of about $4.7B, donating the funds to Penn State (his old alma mater) to build an arena, buying the Sabres & the Rochester Americans, owns part of a record label etc, seems pretty reasonable, "enlightened". Its "guesstimated" that the Sabres ST base including walk-up's is about 10-15% Canadian, mostly from the Niagara region, and they do in fact have a waiting list of subscribers, the majority local, Americans. Previous ownerships ranged from semi-solid good to intransigent & criminal, so I have hope that an accommodation can be made, the gamesmanship & posturing being dispensed with.

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04-29-2012, 01:23 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by berklon View Post
Zero impact?

Many hockey fans in Southern Ontario can now travel less to see a game by going to Markham, and don't have to deal with border hassles. Plus this new team would have games televised in Southern Ontario (unlike the Sabres) - which can turn a few Sabres fans into Toronto2 fans and will give future generations more reason to be Toronto2 fans (instead of Sabre fans).

People don't pay attention to invisible territorial lines.

Much like a team in Hamilton, you can bet the Sabres will also feel threatened about a team in Markham.
Well of Hamilton, Toronto and Markham... Markham is the furthest from Buffalo... the Leafs are more of an impact to the Sabres at that point.

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04-29-2012, 01:26 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers View Post
I don't buy that B.S. either. Hamilton met all the criteria, while both Tampa and Ottawa almost none. Ron Joyce, Tim Horton's owener, was not allowed to discuss indemnification. Why?

The fix was in.

BTW, RPM, welcome to the boards!
Thanks for the welcome

I remember Joyce balking at the 50 million as clear as yesterday. if he just paid the damn fee, hamilton would have gotten the team (and a lot cheaper than todays going gough rate will be). I'd like to see both with teams, but it seems like Markham has an inside track, heck the Leafs even had a rep there, so they must be spooked !! Hopefully where there's smoke there's fire.

Although I wish people in S. Ont. would stop going to sabres games... only hurting there chances of getting a team in Hamilton area by supporting Buffalo.

Well at least we have 2 options for another team.. hopefully 1 pans out, God willing both do

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04-29-2012, 02:38 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by RPM View Post
Thanks for the welcome

I remember Joyce balking at the 50 million as clear as yesterday. if he just paid the damn fee, hamilton would have gotten the team (and a lot cheaper than todays going gough rate will be).
The conditions on the bid were that he put up 100% of the full expansion fee, NON-REFUNDABLE, after which he could ask the Leafs how much they wanted in compensation. No businessman in his right mind would essentially sign a blank cheque.

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04-29-2012, 12:50 PM
  #147
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Alternative Future

Faced with these kind of difficulties in the past, the solution has been found to form a league, going right back to the formation of the NHL in 1917.

The true future of hockey depends on strong fan base following, and the ability to watch games live. That means the teams need to be located in places where the fans live, and the average fan need to be able to afford to go to the games.

In Europe, all the larger countries have their own independent leagues, and support them by attending the games. Why can that not be a model for us in Canada?

Markham
Hamilton
London

That alone has the potential to develop into a new league. Remember there is a large arena in Saskatoon as well.

The WHA tried to go head to head with the NHL back in 1972, and it failed. But it lasted far longer than a number of the NHL owners of the day suspected it would. Only one of the success stories of the WHA has had a continuous existence in the same market - the Oilers.

Then of course there are the minor leagues, but all they all seem like third or fourth tier leagues and are predominantly NHL farm teams. I recognize for the time being, that's the way it is.

So in pondering a future hockey landscape I am just asking why is it the NHL or nothing for pro hockey fans in Canada? If you are perfectly content to only watch hockey on tv, this might not matter to you. But for those of us who enjoy going to actual games across the Canada, the season is over. And its too soon.

I look forward to the day when there is an alternative that we can attend.

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04-29-2012, 12:55 PM
  #148
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^^^^

What would be the point of that? Those teams wouldn't remotely be able to compete with the NHL for the best players. Why not just go watch the local AHL team?

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04-29-2012, 12:55 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Patrick2 View Post
Faced with these kind of difficulties in the past, the solution has been found to form a league, going right back to the formation of the NHL in 1917.

The true future of hockey depends on strong fan base following, and the ability to watch games live. That means the teams need to be located in places where the fans live, and the average fan need to be able to afford to go to the games.

In Europe, all the larger countries have their own independent leagues, and support them by attending the games. Why can that not be a model for us in Canada?

Markham
Hamilton
London

That alone has the potential to develop into a new league. Remember there is a large arena in Saskatoon as well.

The WHA tried to go head to head with the NHL back in 1972, and it failed. But it lasted far longer than a number of the NHL owners of the day suspected it would. Only one of the success stories of the WHA has had a continuous existence in the same market - the Oilers.

Then of course there are the minor leagues, but all they all seem like third or fourth tier leagues and are predominantly NHL farm teams. I recognize for the time being, that's the way it is.

So in pondering a future hockey landscape I am just asking why is it the NHL or nothing for pro hockey fans in Canada? If you are perfectly content to only watch hockey on tv, this might not matter to you. But for those of us who enjoy going to actual games across the Canada, the season is over. And its too soon.

I look forward to the day when there is an alternative that we can attend.
There's the Q, OHL and WHL.

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04-29-2012, 12:59 PM
  #150
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In Europe, all the larger countries have their own independent leagues, and support them by attending the games. Why can that not be a model for us in Canada?
Because seven of the biggest cities in Canada already have NHL teams. Your suggestion would be like if Celtic and Rangers joined the English Premier League. You'd be left with Dundee and Dunfermline and St. Johnstone and a bunch of small potatoes sadsacks to create a league out of. And no one would care.

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