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Old
04-28-2012, 08:47 PM
  #51
malkinfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garl View Post
And the gap in quality is not big. Worst elitserien team is better than worst KHL team. And KHL farm team would not be competative in SEL at all. You're confusing Sweden and Slovakia.
Interesting though the bottom KHL team would be team 24 or 27 rank possibly, and last Swedish team is what? 12th rank? Your comparing apples to oranges.
Also the only real bad KHL teams are Avto and Vityaz, maybe Lev even those teams can catch top ranked teams sometimes with complete roster (ie. Zhukov, Anisin, Panarin, Markov in Vityaz's case). Even these 2 teams would probably be middle of the pack in SEL IMO.

KHL farm is obviously not as strong.

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Old
04-29-2012, 01:12 PM
  #52
vorky
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I recommend to read http://www.khl.ru/news/2012/4/29/43271.html

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Old
04-29-2012, 03:30 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
"28 апреля в Москве состоялся очередной мастер-класс для руководителей клубов Континентальной хоккейной лиги и руководителей подразделений, отвечающих за маркетинг в клубах на тему «Ключевые зоны контроля маркетинговой деятельности организации для руководителя»"

Oh, now i get it!

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Old
04-30-2012, 03:32 AM
  #54
stv11
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First, I'd like to point out that I am in no way biased against the KHL. I enjoy the on ice product and think it's clearly the best league in Europe. Second, I have nothing against the fact that they outspend other European (or even NHL) teams, sport teams are there to compte with each other.

But please, could KHL fans stop pretending it's for the good of European hockey? 10 years ago, only the NHL could outspend everyone else, which means that every team in the top European leagues had a chance to sign some of the best players in Europe (players who were often better than a lot of NHLers due to the difference in style of play). Nowadays, with two leagues able to outspend everyone else, including one with a similar playing style, any fan of a Swedish, Finnish, Swiss or Czech team will see most of his team's dominant players leave. In the 90's, my team could have signed players such as Cervenka, Weinhandl or Immonen. Now, it's as unrealistic as wanting them to sign Crosby or Stamkos. I don't blame the KHL for this, because that's the way sport leagues work, but there's no need to pretend that's a good thing for me or anyone who attends NLA, Eliteserien, SM-Liiga or Extraliga games.

I know some will point out that 10 or 15 years ago, the NLA was able to outspend other European leagues and that it wasn't fair either. I agree with that statement, but if my team had signed Roman Cervenka, you can bet I wouldn't be trying to tell Slavia fans it somehow is a good thing for them.

The KHL is a good thing for Russian hockey and Russian hockey fans, it's a good thing for the Latvian and Belarussian national teams, and it could be the same for Ukraine and Kazakhstan, but that's what it should be, nothing more. As someone more interested in foreign leagues than the average European fan (I follow all five of the leagues mention in this post), I want a Champions' League, not a European league.

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Old
04-30-2012, 03:53 AM
  #55
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stv11
I support your arguments. I like it. Tell me why swedish clubs can not keep their best players until 23-25 years? Be aware that NO KHL team signs these category of swedish guys. All of them are leaving for NHL. Is KHL a threat? No. I want european clubs to keep majority of their best players at least until such age. I dont want Finns to play AHL at the age of 18-23. It is waste of time for them. You will never reach this goal with having weak european domestic leagues or Champions league. Never.

Dont use guys like Zibanejad or Vatanen as players who play at home until 20-23 or so. They are under contract with NHL club, they can leave every summer... swedish club have no chance to keep them. It does not work in KHL.

If your club joins KHL, it can keep such guys. Of course, not every club can play KHL.. many clubs will complain. Look at America, there is NHL and AHL. Why not make such model in Europe? KHL as no.1 and domestic leagues as developing leagues. Nowadays these domestic leagues are developing one as well, nothing would change.. only a few swedish clubs would play better league. Rest would remain to play developing league as today.

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Old
04-30-2012, 07:18 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
stv11
Tell me why swedish clubs can not keep their best players until 23-25 years?
Beacuse NHL teams have 2 years after the draft to sign swedes, or they lose the rights. Sweden wants that to change to 4 years, so young players can stay longer in Sweden.

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04-30-2012, 07:23 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfrilla View Post
Beacuse NHL teams have 2 years after the draft to sign swedes, or they lose the rights. Sweden wants that to change to 4 years, so young players can stay longer in Sweden.
and that is problem. Swedish league or federation does not have power (diplomacy influence) to force NHL to change it. if strong european league were created, this league would have such power. The main reason why I support KHL or such euro league

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04-30-2012, 07:39 AM
  #58
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Im pretty sure we will see a 4 year agreement between NHL and Sweden in a few years..

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Old
04-30-2012, 07:46 AM
  #59
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Ignoring every other thing preventing anything euro league here, imagine if only some citys made the euro league, and the others became farm teams? hockey would die so fast in sweden it would give chuck norris a heartattack. It's very admirable that you speak for what you believe in vorky but at this point your really reaching for straws

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Old
04-30-2012, 08:14 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dosing View Post
Ignoring every other thing preventing anything euro league here, imagine if only some citys made the euro league, and the others became farm teams? hockey would die so fast in sweden it would give chuck norris a heartattack. It's very admirable that you speak for what you believe in vorky but at this point your really reaching for straws
yep, hockey is dead in NA because there is AHL/NHL.. nonsense

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Old
04-30-2012, 08:47 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
yep, hockey is dead in NA because there is AHL/NHL.. nonsense
You're continuously being a ***** in this thread and you haven't taken a single criticism to heart. Can you just stop please? North American sports clubs are franchises that are bought, sold and moved on a whim. A Swedish club is cemented in it's geography and can't change location. You just don't understand what real hockey culture is, if we would listen to you Swedish hockey would die out in a decade. I'm a Skellefteå AIK fan, my team's rival is Björklöven, it doesn't matter what sport or what division we're playing against each other, they are our rivals. It's not something you can recreate for some misguided supposed economical reason.

I'll say it for the fiftyeleventh time, the KHL will _NEVER_ ever be a European wide league and the huge amount of reasons has been stated here over and over again, I wonder if it's the language barrier or are you just this thickheaded?

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Old
04-30-2012, 08:52 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svartgul View Post
You're continuously being a ***** in this thread and you haven't taken a single criticism to heart. Can you just stop please? North American sports clubs are franchises that are bought, sold and moved on a whim. A Swedish club is cemented in it's geography and can't change location. You just don't understand what real hockey culture is, if we would listen to you Swedish hockey would die out in a decade. I'm a Skellefteå AIK fan, my team's rival is Björklöven, it doesn't matter what sport or what division we're playing against each other, they are our rivals. It's not something you can recreate for some misguided supposed economical reason.

I'll say it for the fiftyeleventh time, the KHL will _NEVER_ ever be a European wide league and the huge amount of reasons has been stated over and over here.
you say that Björklöven would not be rival of your club if they played european leagues instead of swedish one? Interesting.. nice.

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Old
04-30-2012, 09:40 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dosing View Post
If we have to endure listening to finnish you'd better be diplomatic enough to listen to danish.


What are u talking about ? Finnish is so easy to understand... Even I understand the word Tacoman

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Old
04-30-2012, 09:53 AM
  #64
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Do we really have to repeat this in yet another thread?

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Old
04-30-2012, 11:56 PM
  #65
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As a North American fan, I wish the NHL was more internationally minded but they can’t see anything outside of North America. The KHL will not be any better in a few years, and will do what is best for hockey in Russia despite its reach in Europe. This situation makes national leagues such as Sweden and Finland’s less viable long term and will see their prestige and influence eroded in my opinion. I think the best course of action is to create more multinational leagues to balance each other and I think a Nordic league would do that.

I think a good start would be 10 teams from Finland and 10 from Sweden and work it within a promotion and relegation system. A Finnish/Swedish league would certainly be more influential and powerful than their individual national leagues and attract more sponsors in my opinion.

Below the Nordic league would be each nation’s national league (Finland and Sweden, as well as Denmark and Norway). Winners of the national leagues and the bottom two teams from the “Nordic League” would play a relegation/promotion playoff and the top two teams from the playoff get promoted or stay. While not ‘giving’ a team to Denmark and Norway, enabling their teams to access the “Nordic league” would create a major benefit to develop and invest in their own teams and leagues, thus growing hockey in these two nations.

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Old
05-01-2012, 06:49 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
you say that Björklöven would not be rival of your club if they played european leagues instead of swedish one? Interesting.. nice.
It´s pretty obvious, isn't it? Rivalry does not limit it self to the top league, in this case the SEL. Rivalry spreads down the league system. If svartguls team (Skelleftea - playing in the SEL) was to join the KHL they would not exist in the same league system as their biggest rival. While svartgul have a great time "laughing" at Bjorkloven (now playing 3rd tier in Sweden), Bjorkloven now fights their way up in the league system (after bad economics relegated them) dreaming of the day they knock Skelleftea down again.

So yes, if svartgul team joined a european league without any connection to the league system in Sweden - that rivalry would be gone.

This kind of rivalry exists everywhere in Sweden and it fuels the interest and the fans, and it cant be replaced with an other team.

I could see a potential in a Nordic league, but not a new league cutting away from the SEL and FEL. A swedish division (SEL division) and a finnish division (FEL division) both connected to their respective league systems below.

Swedish division champions = Swedish champions as of today.
Finnish division champions = Finnish champions as of today.

Swe champ vs Fin champ = Nordic champs.


Last edited by icing: 05-01-2012 at 06:55 AM.
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Old
05-01-2012, 06:52 AM
  #67
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So yes, if svartgul team joined a european league without any connection to the league system in Sweden - that rivalry would be gone.
I say about staying in swedish league .. euro league + swedish league (farm club or so)

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Old
05-01-2012, 07:07 AM
  #68
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More competition between Fin - Swe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfrilla View Post
Beacuse NHL teams have 2 years after the draft to sign swedes, or they lose the rights. Sweden wants that to change to 4 years, so young players can stay longer in Sweden.
It's here also 2 years. Yeah that should be changed to 4 years. But that's not big problem cuz NHL team can "loan" player back to FEL team. Niko Hovinen signed to philly last summer but played this year in Pelicans, Joonas Rask just signed to Nashville but will play next season in Jokerit. Same goes Toni Rajala etc.

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Old
05-01-2012, 11:49 AM
  #69
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Yah right. Add Malmö (okey maybe not now when te rich dude have left), Leksand, Djurgården and Linköping

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Old
05-01-2012, 04:43 PM
  #70
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This thread is becoming laughable. Am I the only one who thinks Vorky is trolling?

A proper hockey champions league, yes, that could be fun. A european super league headed by the KHL, no thanks.

As per AIK and their flirt with KHL, it was never serious. The SEL is not in dire need of the KHL. No team in the SEL needs it. We have enough confidence of the SEL and ambitions to develop it further. At the moment the TV money is good, lots of people are going to the games and there is no shortage of sponsors. The situation is not like in old soviet countries where teams flock to the KHL because their domestic leagues are crap.

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Old
05-02-2012, 12:10 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I say about staying in swedish league .. euro league + swedish league (farm club or so)
Again))) Farm club would not be competative in SEL at all.

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Old
05-02-2012, 01:49 AM
  #72
vorky
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supermasif

read my post. I think you dont understand my concept

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Old
05-02-2012, 06:05 AM
  #73
Glory
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I could see a swe/fin league maybe, nothing more

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Old
05-02-2012, 04:41 PM
  #74
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Well, fortunately for me and svartgul (among others) the 51% rule makes this virtually impossible.
But while we're talking about it, why just not look at royal league as an example of why no one will care.

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Old
05-03-2012, 12:43 PM
  #75
icing
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Quote:
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Well, fortunately for me and svartgul (among others) the 51% rule makes this virtually impossible.
But while we're talking about it, why just not look at royal league as an example of why no one will care.
Royal league is not a good example at all. Pre season football games during the winter? Even if I was interested i would not go to the games in -15 degrees.

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