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Time For the NHL to Eliminate the Tie

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Old
11-21-2003, 08:49 PM
  #1
Jones23
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Time For the NHL to Eliminate the Tie

http://www.mofosports.net/news/nyi/1069484208.html

I'm all for the shootout as long as it's only in the regular season and only for an extra point.

It sure would add alot of excitement to the NHL!

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Old
11-21-2003, 08:55 PM
  #2
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Shootouts don't show who the better team is....

Shootouts show who have the best individually talented players. Teams like Edmonton, Columbus, Montreal, Calgary, Minesota will almost always lose in shootouts. Those teams rely wholely on a team game to win. Shootouts don't let the hard working team win.

How do you win against...

1. Sakic
2. Hejduk
3. Kariya
4. Selane
5. Forsberg

I don't care who the goalie is...That's just not fair. Keep the overtime the way it is, and i like the tie. The NHL should eliminate the OL. Now that's just stupid.

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11-21-2003, 09:53 PM
  #3
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And the NBA should decide tie games after 48 minutes with slam dunk and three-point shooting contests. Baseball games tied after 9 innings should be decided by homerun derby. And football games by a punt, pass and kick contest. :p (Just bustin' ya, Big Peca. )

Here's another idea. Eliminate OT during the regular season.

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:55 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
And the NBA should decide tie games after 48 minutes with slam dunk and three-point shooting contests. Baseball games tied after 9 innings should be decided by homerun derby. And football games by a punt, pass and kick contest. :p
hahahahaha lmao too funny

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11-21-2003, 10:19 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilflip
Shootouts don't show who the better team is....

Shootouts show who have the best individually talented players. Teams like Edmonton, Columbus, Montreal, Calgary, Minesota will almost always lose in shootouts.
Actually, Montreal would be pretty good in a shootout. Despite the system, we do have individually talented players, plus Theo.

Zednik
Koivu
Ribeiro
Markov
Audette


Not the best by any means, but that is a pretty good shootout lineup. You could also alternate with guys like Perreault and Hossa as well.

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Old
11-22-2003, 12:37 AM
  #6
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Ugh. The only thing worse than losing a game in a shootout is *winning* one. Totally cheapens it, you feel dirty, like you didn't deserve it. You can't even enjoy the victory, because you didn't really win.

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11-22-2003, 02:31 AM
  #7
Ziggy Stardust
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Although I personally am not a fan of the shootout as being the decision breaker, I think it could possibly be more attractive to the casual person to tune in to see some creative moves from the top stars or huge saves by goaltenders on a one-on-one situation which is something we don't see often.

First off, I wish OT lasted for half a period. You see the other "major sports" and none of them are settled in a tie. Five minutes may not be enough time, but adding 10 extra minutes to the current game might last a bit too long, so extending the time of OT probably isn't likely.

So I had an idea on how to incorporate the shootout, and get rid of the "sympathy point" as I like to call it.

Here is my proposal. If a game is tied at the end of regulation, and the game is decided in OT, then the winning team gets 2 points, losing team 0.
But if the game remains tied at the end of OT, then both teams are given a point, and the extra point is settled in a shootout.

Of course, the stats in a shootout will not reflect a players stats, and a shootout loss or win would be considered a T in the goalies W-L-T column.
And to keep track of the shootout record, a seperate stat can be tracked for that.

I think a shootout would be a nice way to showcase the talented skaters and netminders of the game, and it is a very tense moment in sports which I think could attract a new audience, and that is something the NHL has been trying to do for years.

It may be a radical idea but... I think we should see how it flows during preseason hockey or in the minor leagues. An element people are forgetting is the FUN of the sport and the enjoyment of watching the players with the talent being able to display their skills.

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11-22-2003, 03:15 AM
  #8
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Thankfully, it'll never happen. Gary Bettman was on the Dan Patrick show after that All-Star game and said it'll never happen. To illustrate how ridiculous the idea is he used the examples that Trottier just listed.

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Old
11-22-2003, 04:22 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
Thankfully, it'll never happen. Gary Bettman was on the Dan Patrick show after that All-Star game and said it'll never happen. To illustrate how ridiculous the idea is he used the examples that Trottier just listed.
And that is why the NBA, NFL and MLB are sports in which the game is never settled in a tie. Do you realize that sports such as bowling, golf, tennis (even at the women's level), NASCAR, even some WNBA games, have had higher ratings than NHL games?

And since Bettman took over in '93, look at how much better the league has gotten. The last truely great season the NHL had was 1993-94. After that, we saw the lockout and rule changes and over-expansion, and look at the current shape the league is in.
They have more teams than ever, the second highest priced sporting event of the four major sports, low local revenue in many markets, low TV ratings and the average NHL athlete earns more than the average NFL athlete, which just happens to be the most profitable sport in the US.

But aside from the lack of success of the NHL economically, you have to look at why there is a lack of interest in the US. In some markets, that doesn't hold to be true, but you've got to wonder how many homes in Kansas or Montana or Delaware or Wyoming or Mississippi or Virginia, etc. care to tune in to a hockey game.

The game needs to exploit it's stars more, and a shootout is a way of doing so. I'm not all for it either as I'm divided on the issue, which is why I propose they test it out in preseason and minor league hockey and see what the fan reaction is.

Ever heard of what a screening is? Movie studios do that to see what the general audience thinks of their product before the finished product... the NHL should try that.

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Old
11-22-2003, 04:38 AM
  #10
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I would like to see OT go during regular season. A game either ends with a win or a tie. Simple. In playoff you have a OT system that works fine.

The NHL version of regular season OT gets more and more gimmicky as time passes, and adding shootouts would only reinforce that.

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Old
11-22-2003, 04:51 AM
  #11
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Don't feed the sports trolls (meaning basketball and football fans who whine about low-scoring or tied hockey games). The tie is a part of our game and a part of what can make it great. You don't see every soccer match ending in a shootout, do you?

IMO, the only place for shootouts is the playoffs, and then only after two [15 (changed my mind)] minute OT periods. After [90] minutes of playoff hockey, I don't care how well conditioned a team is, they're going to be completely worn down. At that point, a fluke goal is just as likely to decide it as skill, so I don't see a problem with a shootout in that scenario.

They do add excitement, and the reason they add excitement is because you rarely see them. If we had shootouts every other night, it would defeat the whole purpose / become "just another shootout".

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11-22-2003, 05:01 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
Don't feed the sports trolls (meaning basketball and football fans who whine about low-scoring or tied hockey games). The tie is a part of our game and a part of what can make it great. You don't see every soccer match ending in a shootout, do you?

IMO, the only place for shootouts is the playoffs, and then only after two [15 (changed my mind)] minute OT periods. After [90] minutes of playoff hockey, I don't care how well conditioned a team is, they're going to be completely worn down. At that point, a fluke goal is just as likely to decide it as skill, so I don't see a problem with a shootout in that scenario.

They do add excitement, and the reason they add excitement is because you rarely see them. If we had shootouts every other night, it would defeat the whole purpose / become "just another shootout".

Soccer... now there is another successful sport in the US. You wonder why it is? Scores of 0-0, 1-0, 1-1, 2-1 is what you usually see in soccer, and for some reason, it has never taken off here in the States...

Now... saving the shootout for playoffs? That is ridiculous. You want to see Game 7 of a Stanley Cup Finals series end in penalty shots? Sudden death overtime during the playoffs is quite possibly the most exciting moment of hockey, as the game could end when you least expect it, and can be won by either side, no matter what the odds are.

I think a shootout in the playoffs is more of a radical idea... and it's better kept away from the league if it is going to determine the out-come of a game.

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11-22-2003, 05:01 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
And that is why the NBA, NFL and MLB are sports in which the game is never settled in a tie. Do you realize that sports such as bowling, golf, tennis (even at the women's level), NASCAR, even some WNBA games, have had higher ratings than NHL games?

And since Bettman took over in '93, look at how much better the league has gotten. The last truely great season the NHL had was 1993-94. After that, we saw the lockout and rule changes and over-expansion, and look at the current shape the league is in.
They have more teams than ever, the second highest priced sporting event of the four major sports, low local revenue in many markets, low TV ratings and the average NHL athlete earns more than the average NFL athlete, which just happens to be the most profitable sport in the US.

But aside from the lack of success of the NHL economically, you have to look at why there is a lack of interest in the US. In some markets, that doesn't hold to be true, but you've got to wonder how many homes in Kansas or Montana or Delaware or Wyoming or Mississippi or Virginia, etc. care to tune in to a hockey game.

The game needs to exploit it's stars more, and a shootout is a way of doing so. I'm not all for it either as I'm divided on the issue, which is why I propose they test it out in preseason and minor league hockey and see what the fan reaction is.

Ever heard of what a screening is? Movie studios do that to see what the general audience thinks of their product before the finished product... the NHL should try that.
You're right... the reason why the NHL is behind in ratings is because they allow ties.

Anyone in business knows that it's much easier to keep a current customer than it is to get a new one. This is where Bettman has failed in his tenure as commissioner. His efforts were completely aimed doing what he could to make the non-hockey fan watch and attend more games. That's great and all, but he did it while forgetting about the current fans and because of that has lost a lot of them. What the point of this? A great majority of CURRENT hockey fans have no interest in a shootout. More importantly, neither do the players that I've heard speak on the issue. So... by going to a shootout they might gain a few people who'll watch for the chance to see a shootout. But, the players and the current fans will do nothing but complain about it. The net result is the sport ends up looking worse off than it was before because the people who truly care about hockey will do nothing but complain.

BTW... the NFL does have ties. They're simply smart enough to institute a system where they don't have 5 of them every week... which is exactly why the NHL should go to a 20 minute OT w/ no OTL and back to 5 on 5.

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Old
11-22-2003, 05:10 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
You're right... the reason why the NHL is behind in ratings is because they allow ties.

Anyone in business knows that it's much easier to keep a current customer than it is to get a new one. This is where Bettman has failed in his tenure as commissioner. His efforts were completely aimed doing what he could to make the non-hockey fan watch and attend more games. That's great and all, but he did it while forgetting about the current fans and because of that has lost a lot of them. What the point of this? A great majority of CURRENT hockey fans have no interest in a shootout. More importantly, neither do the players that I've heard speak on the issue. So... by going to a shootout they might gain a few people who'll watch for the chance to see a shootout. But, the players and the current fans will do nothing but complain about it. The net result is the sport ends up looking worse off than it was before because the people who truly care about hockey will do nothing but complain.

BTW... the NFL does have ties. They're simply smart enough to institute a system where they don't have 5 of them every week... which is exactly why the NHL should go to a 20 minute OT w/ no OTL and back to 5 on 5.

You think the TV networks would allow 80 minutes of air-time for hockey? That idea is less likely to occur than a shootout.
Assume there is a westcoast game being televised on the eastcoast, and they've played 20 minutes of OT... the game would end at approx. 2AM EST.

The NHL is behind in ratings because people in the states I mentioned don't care to watch it.
Thank you for stating the obvious, which is what I was saying... people in those communities don't care for hockey. You think adding 20 minutes of it would lure them in?

How is the league going to showcase some of the skills these players possess. How can they show off the one-on-one moves many of these skaters are capable of pulling off when we rarely ever see them during an actual game.

Too many teams play a more conservative style... and I think one reason is because the players are less talented all around then they were in the past because of over-expansion. Too many average players have clogged the league. When there were 24 teams, with 23-man rosters (552 players in the league), there was more talent to be spread out.
Now the talent has run thin with 30 teams (690 players).
And take a look at the amount of players being drafted from Sweden or Finland... the numbers are dropping.

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Old
11-22-2003, 05:24 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
You think the TV networks would allow 80 minutes of air-time for hockey? That idea is less likely to occur than a shootout.
Assume there is a westcoast game being televised on the eastcoast, and they've played 20 minutes of OT... the game would end at approx. 2AM EST.
Apparently you missed the entire point of my post. Never once did I say that the 20 minutes of hockey would increase ratings. I said that's what they should do because it's what is best for the game.

If you want to know the true reasons why the NHL is lacking in the ratings dept:

1. Cost and ease to play. To play a pickup game you've got to find a number of people who all have sticks, a place to play the game, and something to use at nets. To play football.. you need a football. To play Baseball.. you need a ball and a bat (something you'll find in 95% of US homes). To play soccer.. you need a soccer ball. To play basketball.. you need a basketball and a hoop (something found on most neighborhood streets and if not, at most parks).

2. Hockey is a 'toddler' in the US Yes, it's been in Detroit, NY, Chicago, and Boston for a long time. However, no other city has had a team for even 40 years. What this results in is the majority of hockey fans in the US (not in those cities) are first generation fans like myself that took it upon myself to play and watch the games. Even living in a city where a team has been for 36 years old, most hockey fans I know are 1st generation fans. Because of them, their kids will be fans. As will their kids. Making a sport part of the culture doesn't happen over night.

Those are the two main reasons why hockey doesn't have the ratings. It isn't the lack of talent. It isn't the speed of the game. It isn't because of the the fighting.

To put it simply... there is a reason why every non-hockey fan that I've talked to about the sport says that they love going to the games.

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11-22-2003, 06:06 AM
  #16
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The only thing that needs to be changed in OT right now is the losing team still being awarded a single point just for making it to overtime. There should be no points claimed for an overtime loss. The NHL is sending the wrong message rewarding something you'd never do if your kid brought home straight F's.

 
Old
11-22-2003, 06:50 AM
  #17
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We've had shootouts in europe for quite a while and let me tell you what I and many others think of it: it sucks. It's a lottery, you could just as well decide by tossing a coin. Tie or continuous 5 on 5 OT, everything else is just a PR-stunt and it's not hockey.

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11-22-2003, 07:07 AM
  #18
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yeah, but it isnt hockey. im happy with a tie, 2c teams play equally well, they tie. simple enough.

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11-22-2003, 09:21 AM
  #19
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I'm against it...
But looking from the other side...
It could be a "punishment" to the "team orientated system"...or let's be realistic and call it the trap...It WOULD force those trapping teams to open up and try to win it before the shootout and not force the tie...

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11-22-2003, 09:26 AM
  #20
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Decide the game the way it's played. Extend OT to ten minutes (still four on four) and get rid of the OTL.

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11-22-2003, 12:02 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
And that is why the NBA, NFL and MLB are sports in which the game is never settled in a tie. Do you realize that sports such as bowling, golf, tennis (even at the women's level), NASCAR, even some WNBA games, have had higher ratings than NHL games?
What's more important to you as a fan? TV ratings and the $$$ it puts in the network's pockets or maintaining the integrity of the game? That may sound a bit melodramatic, but selling out to the potential interests of the casual US fan (who I believe still would have little interest in the sport even if you put topless dancers at center ice during play :p ) is a lousy option, IMO.

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11-22-2003, 01:13 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by degroat
Thankfully, it'll never happen. Gary Bettman was on the Dan Patrick show after that All-Star game and said it'll never happen. To illustrate how ridiculous the idea is he used the examples that Trottier just listed.
I agree with everything.

My ideas would be to have a 10 minute OT period, or maybe after 5 minutes of 4 on 4, have 5 minutes of 3 on 3. Someone is bound to score.

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11-22-2003, 01:17 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
What's more important to you as a fan? TV ratings and the $$$ it puts in the network's pockets or maintaining the integrity of the game? That may sound a bit melodramatic, but selling out to the potential interests of the casual US fan (who I believe still would have little interest in the sport even if you put topless dancers at center ice during play :p ) is a lousy option, IMO.
It's important to me for the NHL to become a huge success, and in that process provide more league-wide parity and eliminate the financial losses, and for that to happen I think some changes in the game are necessary.

Changes were made to the game already which have not helped. I said from the start I would prefer not to see a shootout. I want to get rid of the sympathetic OTL point... and extend the OT period by five minutes and let them go for half a period, which would increase the possibility of seeing an outcome.

I miss the NHL I was watching during the 80's-early 90's. I think we saw more talent then because there were less teams. How many third liners in the NHL today could even net 20+ goals?

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