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The Trade Proposal Thread ‎2012 2.0

View Poll Results: Would you do the trade?
Do the deal 12 24.00%
Not interested 22 44.00%
Hold out for more 16 32.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-26-2012, 06:42 PM
  #726
HabsSlappy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Here's what I would do as a GM:

Step 1: trade Plekanec. His value is good, he's got a decent contract and he's not going to be a long term part of the success here. Couple options here:

To Chicago: need depth badly. Plekanec would give them the best top 6 in the NHL arguably. Would want prospect Mark McNeil (big center) and a 2013 first rounder.

Or to Anaheim for their first rounder in 2012. Could use the pick for getting one of Trouba or Ceci for a dominant blueline core.

Step two: Try to move Kaberle's albatross of a contract. Add a sweetener to the deal.

Step 3: Draft Galchenyuk with the first pick. Try to get guys like Frk, Thrower, Wilson and Sutter with your second and third round picks.

Step Four: sign Subban, Price and Pacioretty to term deals. These are our core players, build with them and around them.

Step Five: it's going to be a long year next year. Probably similar to this year. Explore possibilities of trading vets like Gionta, Cole, and Markov. Always look for picks and/or high end prospects.

Step Six: it's a long haul. Realistically we are 3-4 years away from being contenders. Draft for character and talent. Let that talent develop the right way in the AHL. Focus on developing players. Don't give away assets for patchwork. These next two drafts will define us for the next decade. We need to get it right and do well by those prospects.
Wow, i felt like i was reading one of my own posts. I agree almost completely with you.

Pleks should be dealt for assets that can become part of the core in 2 to 4 years.

Kaberle can be dealt but that is not a dealbreaker for me. If we can pair him with a crease clearing, thumping dman, then i think he can be ok as a 5/6 dman and second PP player.

Price, Pacioretty and Subban must
be locked up long term asap.

Next trade deadline will likely be another time to sell unless we surprise. Lot of picks in 2013 will go a long way to making this team a long term success.

Fans will have to be patient. This likely will not be a banner year and we have to make sure that we don't succumb to a Brian Burke type rebuild and wallow in mediocrity for another 20 years.

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Old
04-27-2012, 05:26 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Ummmmmmm..........Nope!

Staal is very underated by some as he is still very young and is his production is closing in on a point per game with very little powerplay time. Combined with the fact that he is a dominant shutdown center and he has tremendous value.
Staal trade too much like Trevor Linden trade. Give up high pick for big #2 center, then got to sign him. Even if he was signed I would pass. Staal not offensive enough for #1 center, 248 pts in 431 games. The pick decent chance to be a homerun.

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Old
04-27-2012, 06:18 AM
  #728
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1. Trading Plekanec = say hello to one of MacKinnon, Barkov or Jones, unless he's traded for an obvious upgrade at center.

2. Don't draft Galchenyuk (injury issues, Yakupov factor), draft either Murray or Renko.

3. We won't trade Markov or Cole.

4. We shouldn't trade DD or Eller.

5. Keep the core of Price, Plekanec, Subban, Patches, Gorges and #3 overall.

6. Don't trade for more dumb contracts.

7. Be patient with our kids that are coming up.

8. Don't trade young(ish) depth players just for the sake of trading them.

9. Draft some goaltending prospects in the later rounds like my other favourite team did in recent drafts.

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Old
04-27-2012, 06:31 PM
  #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
1. Trading Plekanec = say hello to one of MacKinnon, Barkov or Jones, unless he's traded for an obvious upgrade at center.

2. Don't draft Galchenyuk (injury issues, Yakupov factor), draft either Murray or Renko.

3. We won't trade Markov or Cole.

4. We shouldn't trade DD or Eller.

5. Keep the core of Price, Plekanec, Subban, Patches, Gorges and #3 overall.

6. Don't trade for more dumb contracts.

7. Be patient with our kids that are coming up.

8. Don't trade young(ish) depth players just for the sake of trading them.

9. Draft some goaltending prospects in the later rounds like my other favourite team did in recent drafts.
1. What if we move him in a package deal for Kesler instead of futures?

2. I'd say Forsberg or Gally. I like their determination, feel it will translate into a more complete player in the NHL

3. I won't say we wouldn't, but I agree we shouldn't

4. and 5. and 6. and 7. and 8. DAMN RIGHT BROTHA!

9. God yes. We have no one in the system that will likely make it to the NHL, Delmas has an outside shot....as a backup

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Old
04-27-2012, 07:56 PM
  #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Here's what I would do as a GM:

Step 1: trade Plekanec. His value is good, he's got a decent contract and he's not going to be a long term part of the success here. Couple options here:
You lost me at #1. Plekanec is coming off a down year where he played with crappy wingers/struggling players most of the year, worst time to trade him.

Plus trading him won't get you a top 5 pick, it will just drop the habs from a playoff team to probably 9th to 12th in the conference and a 7th to 12th pick. Worst for the franchise than making the playoffs and once again being a team that can sign FA's.

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Old
04-28-2012, 09:58 AM
  #731
Beendair Donedat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
You lost me at #1. Plekanec is coming off a down year where he played with crappy wingers/struggling players most of the year, worst time to trade him.

Plus trading him won't get you a top 5 pick, it will just drop the habs from a playoff team to probably 9th to 12th in the conference and a 7th to 12th pick. Worst for the franchise than making the playoffs and once again being a team that can sign FA's.
The rebuild is upon us, and we should embrace it IMO. Replenish the prospects, get high draft picks and trade our assets for more picks. If we do this right, this could set us up for years. Short term pain for long term gain.

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Old
04-28-2012, 10:04 AM
  #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
The rebuild is upon us, and we should embrace it IMO. Replenish the prospects, get high draft picks and trade our assets for more picks. If we do this right, this could set us up for years. Short term pain for long term gain.
I'm not going to disagree, but I for one am in the camp of waiting until the next deadline to see how things shakeout, giving us more time to assess our youth....and if necessary, drive up the value of Plekanec, as I have a feeling he'll bounce back next season. So we may not need to move him, but if we feel we do, then he'll be worth alot more to a desperate GM

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Old
04-29-2012, 08:11 AM
  #733
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Guys we need Plekanec for next year. If we suck again, i'd have no problem trading him at the deadline for a 1st and a good prospect but until then, let's hold on to him

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Old
04-29-2012, 12:00 PM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
I'm not going to disagree, but I for one am in the camp of waiting until the next deadline to see how things shakeout, giving us more time to assess our youth....and if necessary, drive up the value of Plekanec, as I have a feeling he'll bounce back next season. So we may not need to move him, but if we feel we do, then he'll be worth alot more to a desperate GM
Unless we get players like AK and Jagr for him why would you expect him to have a bounce back season? If Bourque and Gionta are his wingers he may have a reasonably good season but it won't improve his trade value. I think there's a lot of wishful thinking going on here.

That's what happens when your GM trades both Cammy and AK.

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Old
04-29-2012, 12:15 PM
  #735
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it's time to move without Markov

Markov for Scandella + 2nd 2012 ( 41 overall )

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Old
04-29-2012, 02:30 PM
  #736
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Our pick + Plekanec for
J.Staal and Clowe? In seperate trades of course

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Old
04-29-2012, 04:06 PM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Unless we get players like AK and Jagr for him why would you expect him to have a bounce back season? If Bourque and Gionta are his wingers he may have a reasonably good season but it won't improve his trade value. I think there's a lot of wishful thinking going on here.

That's what happens when your GM trades both Cammy and AK.
Well. We still don`t know who is the GM yet and what his plan is. Maybe whoever it is has a line on a decent UFA or has another GM "owe him one". So it is possible he gets someone who can compliment him. Bourque would be a good choice to shuttle between 3rd and 2nd line to change things up a little. But I still see a bit of a bounce back season for Pleks (going back to + side and about 60 pts)

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Old
04-29-2012, 04:51 PM
  #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
Well. We still don`t know who is the GM yet and what his plan is. Maybe whoever it is has a line on a decent UFA or has another GM "owe him one". So it is possible he gets someone who can compliment him. Bourque would be a good choice to shuttle between 3rd and 2nd line to change things up a little. But I still see a bit of a bounce back season for Pleks (going back to + side and about 60 pts)
and neither do you know what our not yet named GM is going to do. That isn't stopping you from giving out your opinion on what we should or shouldn't do for next year, which was what I was responding to.

The problem with your ideas is that we aren't going to suck and we aren't going to be decent either. Drafting 10th or 12th overall for 2 or 3 years is my biggest concern.

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04-29-2012, 05:39 PM
  #739
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We don't need a rebuild. Just because we didn't make the playoffs for the first time in 6 years doesn't mean we have a bad core.

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Old
04-29-2012, 06:10 PM
  #740
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Is there any proposal that actually improve the team ???

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Old
04-29-2012, 06:13 PM
  #741
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Is there any proposal that actually improve the team ???
You'd probably be better off looking in the 'off-season/armchair GM' thread.

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Old
04-29-2012, 08:08 PM
  #742
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it's time to move without Markov

Markov for Scandella + 2nd 2012 ( 41 overall )
Their fan base passes and probably punches you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
Our pick + Plekanec for
J.Staal and Clowe? In seperate trades of course
How do we trade 2 assets for 2 player on 2 different teams ?

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Old
04-30-2012, 07:36 AM
  #743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
and neither do you know what our not yet named GM is going to do. That isn't stopping you from giving out your opinion on what we should or shouldn't do for next year, which was what I was responding to.

The problem with your ideas is that we aren't going to suck and we aren't going to be decent either. Drafting 10th or 12th overall for 2 or 3 years is my biggest concern.
I wasn't disagreeing with you at all. Or advocating trading him. Just saying that those who want to should wait and see for most of the season...at least.

Mostly because my view is we keep him, and the new GM (not likely wanting to do a rebuild) brings in at least one more top 6 UFA to play with him and gives Pleks a good shot at a rebound year.

As for our positioning. I feel it had alot to do with a piss poor PP and the inability to hold leads due to our inexperienced blueline. The PP should resolve itself, even a nominal spike of 7% would result in pushing us into a playoff spot. The addition of one verteran stay at home dman (of which there are many in the UFA pool) would stabalize the blueline as well. This should give us a playoff level squad. Add in the blue chipper this year, than 2 seasons from now there will be improvement.

Now, if next year completely blows again, I'll change my mind. But for now, that's my idea. Not too different from yours is it. Sorry to mostly agree with you. Won't happen again.


Last edited by Halifaxhab: 04-30-2012 at 07:45 AM.
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Old
04-30-2012, 11:25 AM
  #744
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
I wasn't disagreeing with you at all. Or advocating trading him. Just saying that those who want to should wait and see for most of the season...at least.

Mostly because my view is we keep him, and the new GM (not likely wanting to do a rebuild) brings in at least one more top 6 UFA to play with him and gives Pleks a good shot at a rebound year.

As for our positioning. I feel it had alot to do with a piss poor PP and the inability to hold leads due to our inexperienced blueline. The PP should resolve itself, even a nominal spike of 7% would result in pushing us into a playoff spot. The addition of one verteran stay at home dman (of which there are many in the UFA pool) would stabalize the blueline as well. This should give us a playoff level squad. Add in the blue chipper this year, than 2 seasons from now there will be improvement.

Now, if next year completely blows again, I'll change my mind. But for now, that's my idea. Not too different from yours is it. Sorry to mostly agree with you. Won't happen again.
I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. It would be ridiculous to start selling our best core players when a few well placed moves could vault us back into the top 8-10 overall with a good young core plus some prospects knocking at the door in the AHL(plus whoever we draft this year).

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04-30-2012, 11:51 AM
  #745
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I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. It would be ridiculous to start selling our best core players when a few well placed moves could vault us back into the top 8-10 overall with a good young core plus some prospects knocking at the door in the AHL(plus whoever we draft this year).
the biggest moves being who we hire on as a coaching staff that can continue the strong 5on5 and PK play while improving the PP. add in a couple on ice moves via UFA and we could be a #5-6 seed....maybe with some luck a #3-4 seed next season. Possibly higher in 3 years. Things are not as bleak as some would have us believe

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05-01-2012, 04:30 PM
  #746
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saw a similar proposal commented on in another thread, interested to see what others might think:

To Toronto:
Gomez
Kaberle

cap implications: 11.5M$ in 2012/13 & 2013/14 (real $ = 9.75M$ & 9M$)


To Montreal:
Komisarek
Armstrong
Connoly
Lombardi

cap implications: 15.75M$ in 2012/13, 4.5M$ in 2013/14 (real dollars = 14M$ & 3.5M$)



Toronto creates ~4M$ of short-term cap space, but at the expense of adding 7M$ cap hit in 2013/14 (unless they otherwise bury/buy-out one of gomez/kaberle).

In Gomez, they take a flyer on a former #1 C who seemingly can't buy a goal these days, but one that is defensively aware enough to fit into a Carlysle system.
In Kaberle they get a PMD they are familiar with & whose career hasn't been the same since leaving town.

both are longshots to be solid contributors, but Toronto has a history of burying problems like that, easier to bury 1-2 guys than 4,


Montreal takes on some cap space next year, but clears off a ton for next season. Like toronto, they inherit players who are all in a serious career decline... but if 1 or more of them find a "bounce back" in montreal, then it's a decent move as neither Kaberle/Gomez fit into their roster plans.



it's crazy in a lot of ways, but perhaps crazy enough to work... we take on 4 bad contracts to move 2, but 3 of those are done after this year (which means A- those players have that much more extra motivation to have a strong season, B- by the deadline we could possibly move 1 or all 3 for some sort of pick/prospect return, C- heading into next offseason we'd have a nice fat chunk of cap space to work with if any of those elite UFA-to-be end up still being there).



MaxPac - DD - Cole (offensive catalyst line)
Bourque - Pleks - Lombardi (defensive match-up line, strong skating solid scoring potential)
Connolly - Eller - Gionta (opposing match-up nightmare 3rd line)
Moen - White - Armstrong (prairie grit checking line)
(Staubitz, Leblanc, Geoffrion)

Subban - Gorges (shut down pair)
Markov - Komi (16-18min/night quality controlled minutes)
Diaz - Emelin (hopefully ready to play ~18min/night consistently)
(Weber, St.Denis, Beaulieu)

Price
Budaj


at worst, it fails miserably, we keep all of our current young assets (as opposed to moving some this summer for other roster upgrade attempts), add a few picks at the deadline, draft another lottery stud AND a ton of cap space for next off season.

at best, all 4 bounce back and help give us the kind of roster depth that allows for a solid playoff run, and we have that many more options for how to spend our cap space in summer of 2013


as much as those 4 didn't do anything to help the Laffs last year, I think arguments could be made for all 4 having much better seasons in our lineup:

Lombardi- a full 2-years removed from concussion, playing for hometown team, playing for a new contract. Great skater with solid hockey I.Q, well suited to play with a guy like Pleks, familiarity with Bourque from Calgary days.

Connolly- gifted player, oft-injured but much better than what he showed last year. Playing for new contract, would likely benefit from not being focal point of a top-6 line, easier match-ups + playing with a finisher like fellow NYer Gionta and an up-coming player like Eller should equal quality production (50-60+pts)

Armstrong- nightmare season last year, playing for new contract & personal pride. Health biggest issue last 2 seasons, putting him on an "energy" line with fellow prairie boys Moen/White could be a perfect fit.

Komi- probably a lost cause, but if anything could resurect his career/confidence, playing with Markov again could do the trick. At worst, brings a "btw-the-whistles" physical presence that is much needed (and hopefully keeps his nose clean after the whsitles to avoid Lucic beatdowns).

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Old
05-01-2012, 04:56 PM
  #747
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
saw a similar proposal commented on in another thread, interested to see what others might think:

To Toronto:
Gomez
Kaberle

cap implications: 11.5M$ in 2012/13 & 2013/14 (real $ = 9.75M$ & 9M$)


To Montreal:
Komisarek
Armstrong
Connoly
Lombardi

cap implications: 15.75M$ in 2012/13, 4.5M$ in 2013/14 (real dollars = 14M$ & 3.5M$)



Toronto creates ~4M$ of short-term cap space, but at the expense of adding 7M$ cap hit in 2013/14 (unless they otherwise bury/buy-out one of gomez/kaberle).

In Gomez, they take a flyer on a former #1 C who seemingly can't buy a goal these days, but one that is defensively aware enough to fit into a Carlysle system.
In Kaberle they get a PMD they are familiar with & whose career hasn't been the same since leaving town.

both are longshots to be solid contributors, but Toronto has a history of burying problems like that, easier to bury 1-2 guys than 4,


Montreal takes on some cap space next year, but clears off a ton for next season. Like toronto, they inherit players who are all in a serious career decline... but if 1 or more of them find a "bounce back" in montreal, then it's a decent move as neither Kaberle/Gomez fit into their roster plans.



it's crazy in a lot of ways, but perhaps crazy enough to work... we take on 4 bad contracts to move 2, but 3 of those are done after this year (which means A- those players have that much more extra motivation to have a strong season, B- by the deadline we could possibly move 1 or all 3 for some sort of pick/prospect return, C- heading into next offseason we'd have a nice fat chunk of cap space to work with if any of those elite UFA-to-be end up still being there).



MaxPac - DD - Cole (offensive catalyst line)
Bourque - Pleks - Lombardi (defensive match-up line, strong skating solid scoring potential)
Connolly - Eller - Gionta (opposing match-up nightmare 3rd line)
Moen - White - Armstrong (prairie grit checking line)
(Staubitz, Leblanc, Geoffrion)

Subban - Gorges (shut down pair)
Markov - Komi (16-18min/night quality controlled minutes)
Diaz - Emelin (hopefully ready to play ~18min/night consistently)
(Weber, St.Denis, Beaulieu)

Price
Budaj


at worst, it fails miserably, we keep all of our current young assets (as opposed to moving some this summer for other roster upgrade attempts), add a few picks at the deadline, draft another lottery stud AND a ton of cap space for next off season.

at best, all 4 bounce back and help give us the kind of roster depth that allows for a solid playoff run, and we have that many more options for how to spend our cap space in summer of 2013


as much as those 4 didn't do anything to help the Laffs last year, I think arguments could be made for all 4 having much better seasons in our lineup:

Lombardi- a full 2-years removed from concussion, playing for hometown team, playing for a new contract. Great skater with solid hockey I.Q, well suited to play with a guy like Pleks, familiarity with Bourque from Calgary days.

Connolly- gifted player, oft-injured but much better than what he showed last year. Playing for new contract, would likely benefit from not being focal point of a top-6 line, easier match-ups + playing with a finisher like fellow NYer Gionta and an up-coming player like Eller should equal quality production (50-60+pts)

Armstrong- nightmare season last year, playing for new contract & personal pride. Health biggest issue last 2 seasons, putting him on an "energy" line with fellow prairie boys Moen/White could be a perfect fit.

Komi- probably a lost cause, but if anything could resurect his career/confidence, playing with Markov again could do the trick. At worst, brings a "btw-the-whistles" physical presence that is much needed (and hopefully keeps his nose clean after the whsitles to avoid Lucic beatdowns).
Rather than take on a bunch of bad contracts and possibly help Toronto, easier to eat the 10 mil and bury Gomez in the AHL or Europe.

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05-01-2012, 05:11 PM
  #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Rather than take on a bunch of bad contracts and possibly help Toronto, easier to eat the 10 mil and bury Gomez in the AHL or Europe.
easier, yes, if the sole objective is to extricate Gomez/Kaberle from the lineup...

but as I see it, the roster we currently have is 1 top-6 fwd & 1 top-4 dman away from being a pretty solid contender.

very few opportunities to land those 2 pieces via UFA this year (Parise/Suter would do it, but that's a pipe dream), and trying to fill those roles with the rest of the UFA crop will lead to more Spacek/Kaberle type deals... long-term, high-price for players unlikely to deliver.

trading to fill those holes would cost us far too much in assets.


the 4 Toronto players don't fill the top-6/top-4 roles, but they do potentially give us the kind of quality depth that would be equally effective AND (most importantly), it's only a 1-year "trial".

if it fails, you have 3 pieces that could potentially land you a few decent picks at the deadline, and you have 1 contract to eat/bury as opposed to 2.

as for helping T.O... if they go the buy-out route plain and simple, then their roster is not improved, and it doesn't really affect their UFA strategy, b/c if they have any shot at Suter/Parise, they'll go after them (and bury who they need to) regarldess.
If they keep Gomez/Kaberle on the roster, then that's only a benefit to us b/c we get to play Gomez/Kaberle 6x year.

the 2nd year, the difference in cap/$$ is a nice benefit to us.

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Old
05-01-2012, 05:25 PM
  #749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
easier, yes, if the sole objective is to extricate Gomez/Kaberle from the lineup...

but as I see it, the roster we currently have is 1 top-6 fwd & 1 top-4 dman away from being a pretty solid contender.

very few opportunities to land those 2 pieces via UFA this year (Parise/Suter would do it, but that's a pipe dream), and trying to fill those roles with the rest of the UFA crop will lead to more Spacek/Kaberle type deals... long-term, high-price for players unlikely to deliver.

trading to fill those holes would cost us far too much in assets.


the 4 Toronto players don't fill the top-6/top-4 roles, but they do potentially give us the kind of quality depth that would be equally effective AND (most importantly), it's only a 1-year "trial".

if it fails, you have 3 pieces that could potentially land you a few decent picks at the deadline, and you have 1 contract to eat/bury as opposed to 2.

as for helping T.O... if they go the buy-out route plain and simple, then their roster is not improved, and it doesn't really affect their UFA strategy, b/c if they have any shot at Suter/Parise, they'll go after them (and bury who they need to) regarldess.
If they keep Gomez/Kaberle on the roster, then that's only a benefit to us b/c we get to play Gomez/Kaberle 6x year.

the 2nd year, the difference in cap/$$ is a nice benefit to us.
Still works out to taking crap players with bad contracts, puts us in a worse situation not a better one. If we have holes to fill and cap room take a flier on somebody on a 1 year deal or two at most.

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05-01-2012, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Still works out to taking crap players with bad contracts, puts us in a worse situation not a better one. If we have holes to fill and cap room take a flier on somebody on a 1 year deal or two at most.
in essence, it's taking 3 "fliers" on 1 year deals, in exchange for someone taking Gomez (with Kaberle/Komi being essentially a neutral swap). short of hitting a Parise homerun, I'd take it.

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