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How does Sweden do it?

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Old
04-29-2012, 04:57 PM
  #26
Raym11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dosing View Post
We are usually in the top of whatever we try... hockey should be no different
Ok so you are good at sports


That doesn't mean you're the best at hockey, like people are trying to prove by using registered hockey player numbers.

I'm not saying Sweden is bad either. Just not Canada.

Canada
Sweden
USA
Russia
Finland


good top 5?

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04-29-2012, 04:57 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raym11 View Post
Half of the registered players in Canada also play for fun. Theres probably 5x more players in Canada registered that play for fun.


You guys are taking massive Sweden bias to prove a point without looking. Hockey is Canada's biggest sport. 3x the population + being biggest sport = more players who play for "fun". Think about all the adult leagues (aka beer leagues) alone, each of them is a registered player too. Now compare those to Sweden and im sure theres much more then 3x the amount of players.



Of course canada has more registered players, but not all of them are trying to become NHL super stars. You arent proving a point showing numbers of registered players and using "fun" as Swedens excuse to have better quality.
But of course every Swede that is registered is rigorously training and trying to become an NHL player?

Why not just give credit to Sweden for having a great developmental system than tearing it down because it may not neatly conform to "Canadas number one"!

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04-29-2012, 04:57 PM
  #28
Lebanese Leaf
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Hockey isn't even the most played sport in Canada, its soccer by far. There were 2.7 million soccer players in Canada in 2006 (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer_in_Canada). You also have to remember, Canadians have a lot more major sports to follow than the Swedes. Canadian/American football, baseball, and basketball are WAY more popular in Canada than in Sweden. Thus, its not fair to point to Sweden and say "soccer is their #1 sport, yet look at the hockey players they produce." Because its pretty much Soccer and Hockey and that's it in Sweden. In Canada, the pie is sliced into more pieces, leaving less hockey focused development than some would think.

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04-29-2012, 04:59 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raym11 View Post
Half of the registered players in Canada also play for fun. Theres probably 5x more players in Canada registered that play for fun.


You guys are taking massive Sweden bias to prove a point without looking. Hockey is Canada's biggest sport. 3x the population + being biggest sport = more players who play for "fun". Think about all the adult leagues (aka beer leagues) alone, each of them is a registered player too. Now compare those to Sweden and im sure theres much more then 3x the amount of players.



Of course canada has more registered players, but not all of them are trying to become NHL super stars. You arent proving a point showing numbers of registered players and using "fun" as Swedens excuse to have better quality.
I don't pull my numbers out of thin air at least. And everything below tier 3(Division 1) in Sweden is also "beer leagues" except they are part of a promotion/relegation system. Wich means Division 2,3,4 and Korpen wich consists of a vast divisional system with divisions beyond counting.

And how does explaining that Canadas most popular sport is hockey prove anything? It just helps my argument.

If any one is biased it's a few stubborn Canadians.

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04-29-2012, 04:59 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burns4Norris View Post
So Canadians often play for fun, but when Swedes play organized hockey, it's always srs bzns?
No, its the same for both countries. Serious and fun. I was responding to people who said that Canada plays hockey as serious and Swedes are so good because they play for fun.


I like Sweden, in fact i think they are ahead of every other country but Canada hockey-wise

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Old
04-29-2012, 05:05 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstroms pads View Post
I don't pull my numbers out of thin air at least. And everything below tier 3(Division 1) in Sweden is also "beer leagues" except they are part of a promotion/relegation system. Wich means Division 2,3,4 and Korpen wich consists of a vast divisional system with divisions beyond counting.

And how does explaining that Canadas most popular sport is hockey prove anything? It just helps my argument.

If any one is biased it's a few stubborn Canadians.
Most popular sport means more people will play it casually in Canada. Registered hockey players means nothing.


Sweden has 57 NHLers? and is less then 4x smaller then Canadas population?

that projects to about 220 NHL players if we are playing the numbers game.

Canada has double that.


Sweden has their own leagues, Canada has their own leagues as well where non NHL players play.

Why compare registered hockey players when they all play for different reasons when we can just compare the NHL player output since they are the ones who are actually playing hockey for the same reasons as the OP stated. NHL players. (to be in the best league in the world)


Canada doubles Sweden(After adjusting Swedens population:NHL player number like people have been doing for Registered players). But instead we'll use registered players......

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04-29-2012, 05:12 PM
  #32
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I read recently in the Vancouver Sun (I think) that there are more kids playing soccer in Vancouver than there are kids that play hockey in all of BC. So to say that the interests aren't divided in Canada isn't necessarily true.
Not necessarily relevant to the actual topic, but just pointing out that interests are split in Canada, Sweden's not the only country where a large portion of kids play sports other than hockey - thus skewing stats to prove that Sweden might have a greater portion of NHLers if not for their other interests of soccer or handball or whatever.

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Old
04-29-2012, 05:14 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstroms pads View Post
Take the stats the guy posted earlier in the thread and do some math.

Canada has 550 000 registered players, Sweden has 68 000. Take 550 000/68 000 and you should get about 8. Sweden has 57 NHL players(and more on the way). Now take 8*57 and you get 456. Canada has 420 players. So if Sweden was the same size as Canada and had as many registered players we'd have more NHLers than Canada. You'd have Bosse Orrvardsson and Wille Gretzström.

Of course the math is not 100% but it should tell you something.

Not bad for a country where most of the kids choose to play football.
terrible line of thinking. Sure there's more people play hockey in canada, very few of those will ever have even a remote shot at playing in the NHL. The top teir of talent in any country will be good if they have a program capable of training them, and most of the top hockey nations do. Total numbers is not the way to look at it. Look at how the top end talent is developed and that will tell you a lot more than per capita numbers.

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04-29-2012, 05:15 PM
  #34
Stanleyjub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ummerr View Post
Country of 9.5 million (1/3rd the size of Canada) produces a prodigious amount of talent? There have always been great Swedes in the league, but the new generation is staggering.

Forwards:
- Landeskog
- Zibanejad
- Backlund
- Hagelin
- Johansson
- Eriksson
- Josefson
- Forsberg

Defensemen:
- Karlsson
- Ekman-Larsson
- Larsson
- Runblad
- Edler
- Hedman
- Erixon
- Klefborn

Most of these players have potential star status in the NHL (some are already well on their way). Not to mention Markstrom, Enroth, Lehner & Lack.

Also, why does Norway not produce much by way of NHL talent?
I'd give potential star status only for Landeskog,Karlsson and Edler(also he's 26, hardly call that new generation)

You didnt mention Finland which has just over half the population of Sweden. I think that's more remarkable. Of course they don't have that kind of top-prospect amount at the moment, but that could change soon 2013 has 3-4 possible first rounders.

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Old
04-29-2012, 05:26 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raym11 View Post
Most popular sport means more people will play it casually in Canada. Registered hockey players means nothing.


Sweden has 57 NHLers? and is less then 4x smaller then Canadas population?

that projects to about 220 NHL players if we are playing the numbers game.

Canada has double that.


Sweden has their own leagues, Canada has their own leagues as well where non NHL players play.

Why compare registered hockey players when they all play for different reasons when we can just compare the NHL player output since they are the ones who are actually playing hockey for the same reasons as the OP stated. NHL players. (to be in the best league in the world)


Canada doubles Sweden(After adjusting Swedens population:NHL player number like people have been doing for Registered players). But instead we'll use registered players......
What does actual registered players have to do with it? I wrote that if Sweden had as many registered players we'd have more NHL-ers.

Only a small portion of the Swedish players play proffessionaly. Most of them playe because it's fun. I don't think there are more players percentage wise that plays proffessionaly in Sweden than in Canada.

Quote:
Originally Posted by missinthejets
terrible line of thinking. Sure there's more people play hockey in canada, very few of those will ever have even a remote shot at playing in the NHL. The top teir of talent in any country will be good if they have a program capable of training them, and most of the top hockey nations do. Total numbers is not the way to look at it. Look at how the top end talent is developed and that will tell you a lot more than per capita numbers.
I looked up some more stats, and according to IIHF Sweden has 41,053 junior players and Canada has 468,096, wich makes Swedens statistics even more impressive.

Just because we have less players doesn't mean some of them start out the exact same way most Canadians do. I would guess Canada even can house more Junior players in their hockey programs than Sweden since there are only a few Swedish teams that are able to properly develop and accomodate proffessional junior players.

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Old
04-29-2012, 05:33 PM
  #36
Long Duk Dong
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Instead of using registered players, how about going by percentage of population who are in the NHL? I'd do it but I'm lazy

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04-29-2012, 05:45 PM
  #37
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Alot of credit has to be given to Tommy Boustedt. He was the guy in charge of reshaping the Swedish youth program. They recognized alot of things had to change and the Swedish hockey federation committed resources into giving more education to trainers and coaches nation wide, giving a more streamlined hockey program. They've put effort into focusing on the problem that alot of players quit hockey just before, during or directly after high school.

It has given amazing results. The US has basically copied the Swedish model and it's looking bright for them as well. Their hockey development is also, naturally, alot better than it was before. US hockey will be a force.

Didn't take long for Canadian posters to go into total defense mode. This thread isn't about Canadian hockey, so does it have to be brought up every single time?

That article joe89 posted pretty much sums it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Don't think you have to drag Canada in to it.

Sweden should be proud over the development system that is in place now.

Here's a good IIHF article from 2008.
It all started in 2002, so it's been a 10 year journey.


Last edited by Chimp: 04-29-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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Old
04-29-2012, 05:54 PM
  #38
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Keep it on topic and keep the politics out of it.

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04-29-2012, 05:56 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ummerr View Post
... Also, why does Norway not produce much by way of NHL talent?
When countries such as Sweden and Finland decided to put resources into building rinks and promoting hockey, Norway didn't, they promoted winter sports such as cross country skiing instead. They have very few rinks. It's pretty much as simple as that.

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04-29-2012, 05:59 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
Hockey isn't even the most played sport in Canada, its soccer by far. There were 2.7 million soccer players in Canada in 2006 (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer_in_Canada). You also have to remember, Canadians have a lot more major sports to follow than the Swedes. Canadian/American football, baseball, and basketball are WAY more popular in Canada than in Sweden. Thus, its not fair to point to Sweden and say "soccer is their #1 sport, yet look at the hockey players they produce." Because its pretty much Soccer and Hockey and that's it in Sweden. In Canada, the pie is sliced into more pieces, leaving less hockey focused development than some would think.
How many international-calibre soccer players does Canada have ? Sweden has to feed 2 major sports with 1/3 of the population and they excel at both.

lol at the bolded part. Yea, they play two sports and that's it.

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Old
04-29-2012, 06:00 PM
  #41
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sweden is just bad ass.

US would be much better if our best athletes played hockey.

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04-29-2012, 06:01 PM
  #42
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Landeskog doesn't appear to be much of a fan of the Swedish development program:

http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/ci_19840140

"Back home, right before I moved to Canada, I'd see myself as more of a role player, more of a physical force," Landeskog said. "I didn't have that much offense in my game. I was more of a penalty killer and that kind of stuff .

"And I was like, 'Either I stay in Sweden and continue to play this role, or should I go to North America and develop all the other aspects of the game — offensive game, defensive game, the power play and all that stuff.'

"When I look back at my two years in Kitchener, I got to develop and not only be that penalty-killing forward."

I guess it is a good thing for Sweden that Canadians decided to make a hockey player out of your most promising talent in years.

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04-29-2012, 06:04 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Canadians have had few big stars to look upon in last hundred year too, no?
Yeah, that's why they are even better at producing good players.

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04-29-2012, 06:05 PM
  #44
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More people play soccer in Canada only because it's cheaper and there are fields everywhere. Soccer is just for fun, not to many people take it serious. That's why Soccer isn't big here. Yes Canada has more prospects, more players, bigger pool to choose from but Sweden is very impressive and Markstroms pads stat about junior players is proof enough.

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04-29-2012, 06:07 PM
  #45
Josh Deitell
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Having lived here for a while now I think a big factor is that a lot of the other sports played here resemble hockey and help to train hockey-related skills. Innebandy (floorball), bandy, handball, etc.

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04-29-2012, 06:08 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Landeskog doesn't appear to be much of a fan of the Swedish development program:

http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/ci_19840140

"Back home, right before I moved to Canada, I'd see myself as more of a role player, more of a physical force," Landeskog said. "I didn't have that much offense in my game. I was more of a penalty killer and that kind of stuff .

"And I was like, 'Either I stay in Sweden and continue to play this role, or should I go to North America and develop all the other aspects of the game — offensive game, defensive game, the power play and all that stuff.'

"When I look back at my two years in Kitchener, I got to develop and not only be that penalty-killing forward."

I guess it is a good thing for Sweden that Canadians decided to make a hockey player out of your most promising talent in years.
I love landeskog and his game but lets not get ahed of ourselves =P

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Old
04-29-2012, 06:11 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanleyjub View Post
I'd give potential star status only for Landeskog,Karlsson and Edler(also he's 26, hardly call that new generation)

You didnt mention Finland which has just over half the population of Sweden. I think that's more remarkable. Of course they don't have that kind of top-prospect amount at the moment, but that could change soon 2013 has 3-4 possible first rounders.
so you wouldn't give it to OEL?

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Old
04-29-2012, 06:12 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
Because its pretty much Soccer and Hockey and that's it in Sweden.


That must be one of the most idiotic things I've ever read.

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Old
04-29-2012, 06:21 PM
  #49
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This is a thread about Sweden, not Canada.

So typical. I love Canada, but man some of you guys are arrogant when it comes to hockey.

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04-29-2012, 06:29 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
Hockey isn't even the most played sport in Canada, its soccer by far. There were 2.7 million soccer players in Canada in 2006 (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer_in_Canada). You also have to remember, Canadians have a lot more major sports to follow than the Swedes. Canadian/American football, baseball, and basketball are WAY more popular in Canada than in Sweden. Thus, its not fair to point to Sweden and say "soccer is their #1 sport, yet look at the hockey players they produce." Because its pretty much Soccer and Hockey and that's it in Sweden. In Canada, the pie is sliced into more pieces, leaving less hockey focused development than some would think.
Wait, what?

The bolded part is a load of bull, have you ever been outside of Canada/NA?

This thread took a weird turn after a bunch of insecure canadians posted. Sweden is doing a really great job in producing hockeyplayers, let's just leave it at that - without involving Canada (for whatever reason you should in a thread like this).

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