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How does Sweden do it?

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Old
04-29-2012, 07:30 PM
  #51
The Pucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick To Your Guns View Post
I'm Canadian I and I disagree, solely base on numbers. The amount of players who play in Canada compared to those in Sweden is massive. Hockey is also not the number one sport in Sweden, so some of their best athletes don't play hockey. Pound for pound/exponentially etc. Sweden is the best hockey country in the world.
If Sweden was the best nation for hockey player development, please explain to me why 528 Canadian players played in the NHL last season and only 67 Swedish players played in the NHL?

If Canada produced NHL players at the same rate as Sweden per capita wise, then Canada would only have 243 players. Likewise if Sweden produced NHL players at the same rate as Canada, there would be 145 Swedish players in the NHL.

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04-29-2012, 07:41 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
If Sweden was the best nation for hockey player development, please explain to me why 528 Canadian players played in the NHL last season and only 67 Swedish players played in the NHL?

If Canada produced NHL players at the same rate as Sweden per capita wise, then Canada would only have 243 players. Likewise if Sweden produced NHL players at the same rate as Canada, there would be 145 Swedish players in the NHL.
If NHL was located in Norway I'm pretty sure most of the 3-4th liners would be Swedes instead of Canadians.

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04-29-2012, 07:51 PM
  #53
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For those saying Canadians are arrogant, Canada was brought into this discussion by the OP, and many are saying that Sweden has a great development system. Why is it awesome to say Sweden is better but arrogant to say Canada is better and Sweden is very good?

A lot of the players mentioned in the OP are not stars and are far from guarantees to be stars.

Looking at registered players is stupid and says nothing. Looking at total population is stupid and says nothing. Looking at number of NHLers is stupid and says nothing. Not saying this is the case, but having 500 4th-liners in the NHL is not better than having 100 1st-liners.

Half of the top-10 players in the NHL this season were Canadian, not even mentioning Crosby, who had the best PPG. The highest scoring player in these playoffs is Canadian. Of the four more-or-less consensus top players in the league right now (Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Giroux), 3 are Canadian.

Canada has a better development system, and many Swedes in the NHL have so much as said so. Canadian coaching, and coaching tactics, are spread and coveted internationally. Canada has had a significant impact on Sweden's growth in hockey.

That doesn't diminish Sweden or the strides they have taken. Sweden may very well be second, and on the rise.

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04-29-2012, 07:54 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Markstroms pads View Post
Take the stats the guy posted earlier in the thread and do some math.

Canada has 550 000 registered players, Sweden has 68 000. Take 550 000/68 000 and you should get about 8. Sweden has 57 NHL players(and more on the way). Now take 8*57 and you get 456. Canada has 420 players. So if Sweden was the same size as Canada and had as many registered players we'd have more NHLers than Canada. You'd have Bosse Orrvardsson and Wille Gretzström.

Of course the math is not 100% but it should tell you something.

Not bad for a country where most of the kids choose to play football.
Sweden have 57 NHL players 68000/57=1175
Denmark have 6 nhl players 4405/6=734
So if Denmark was the same size as Sweden and had as many registered players they would have more NHLers than Sweden and would be the leading hockey nation in the world.

So by your logic every country should look to denmark to see how you properly develop young players


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04-29-2012, 07:56 PM
  #55
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it's all geography. Swedes like to play outdoors.

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04-29-2012, 08:05 PM
  #56
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I play juvenile (Junior C) in British Columbia and in my experience, if you don't play rep('A' or 'B' level) and put up large amounts of money and time for hockey, the development system is not good at all. Playing "house" (local hockey) consists or a 1hour and 15 minute practice and possibly a game a week (the odd week doesn't have a game).

So you get a practice half the length of a "rep" practice and maybe a game a week. The people coaching you are the parents of the kids on the team and very rarely are they good ones (doing the same drills every week, don't have any sort of a system, useless drills).

This is just my experience playing on Vancouver Island and I do remember a much stronger development system when I lived and played in Edmonton.

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04-29-2012, 08:12 PM
  #57
aLus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
Sweden have 57 NHL players 68000/57=1175
Denmark have 6 nhl players 4405/6=734
So if Denmark was the same size as Sweden and had as many registered players they would have more NHLers than Sweden and would be the leading hockey nation in the world.

So by your logic every country should look to denmark to see how you properly develop young players

Maybe if those players were actually being developed in Denmark. All of those players played all, or the majority of their junior years in Sweden.

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04-29-2012, 08:36 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by aLus View Post
Maybe if those players were actually being developed in Denmark. All of those players played all, or the majority of their junior years in Sweden.
So every swedish player developed in ahl or chl doesnt count either then I guess? Because you know then Canada would have better ratio than Sweden.

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04-29-2012, 08:45 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
So every swedish player developed in ahl or chl doesnt count either then I guess? Because you know then Canada would have better ratio than Sweden.
You don't see the difference between danish players coming to Sweden to play when they are very young untill they leave for North America and Swedish players that are developed untill they're around 19-22 years old and go to AHL for a season or two before they get to NHL?

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04-29-2012, 08:52 PM
  #60
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I wish hockey didn't take the backseat to (american) football and baseball in the US. It's such a fantastic sport and I wish we produce more NHL talent.

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04-29-2012, 08:55 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Dallas View Post
I can easily list three times as many great young Canadians. Sweden's development is in no way superior to Canada's.
Right. Well, Sweden is a third the size of Canada, and hockey isn't it's most popular sport. So naming three times as many Canadians still fits right into the thesis.

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04-29-2012, 08:56 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
So every swedish player developed in ahl or chl doesnt count either then I guess? Because you know then Canada would have better ratio than Sweden.
Why do you have to keep trying to downplay how good Sweden is at developing talents? Going over to the AHL for a season after being drafted in the first round isn't the same thing.

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04-29-2012, 09:02 PM
  #63
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Sensitive Canadians taking this too seriously.

Good job Sweden, keep em coming.

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04-29-2012, 09:23 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Frozen Fiend View Post
Sensitive Canadians taking this too seriously.

Good job Sweden, keep em coming.
Pretty much this, why is everyone getting so butt hurt. I'm Canadian and I love this.

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04-29-2012, 09:41 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Fiend View Post
Sensitive Canadians taking this too seriously. :
If anything, this thread is more Swedes going "We are better than Canada, na na na na na na!" than Canadians going "Sweden sucks". Most posts supporting Canada have said nothing but nice things about Sweden and their system, but "great and getting better" doesn't seem to be enough for some reason, even though that is reality.

There is clear evidence supporting Canada having a better development system. Providing flawed ratios doesn't change that.

Just as Swedish people would defend the quality of things that their country is known for, Canadians will defend the quality of our hockey system.

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04-29-2012, 09:50 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by aLus View Post
Why do you have to keep trying to downplay how good Sweden is at developing talents? Going over to the AHL for a season after being drafted in the first round isn't the same thing.
I haven't downplayed swedens development. They are obviously among the best, but saying number of players divided with number of nhl players = best hockey development is simply idiotic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferros View Post
You don't see the difference between danish players coming to Sweden to play when they are very young untill they leave for North America and Swedish players that are developed untill they're around 19-22 years old and go to AHL for a season or two before they get to NHL?
Ok so you are saying that 16-18 is more important than 19-22 and the first day you put on your skates to you are 16. You might be right.

According to your argument though there should still be better swedish than danish nhl player ratio since they get development from the worlds best hockey development from they first start with hockey. The danish players mentioned only get world class development for 3 years and some only got it for a few months. How can they have better NHL ratio than sweden then?

If you didn't understand by now I'm just showing how ridiculous the ratio argument is

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04-29-2012, 09:53 PM
  #67
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No mention of Alfredsson or Silfverberg?

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04-29-2012, 10:02 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by 11Alfredsson View Post
No mention of Alfredsson or Silfverberg?
Seems nobody can read in this thread. I will give you credit for pointing out that the threadstarter did not mention Silfverberg, but Alfredsson was meant to be left out, as the point was to mention the new great crop of Swedish NHL talent. Alfredsson is almost twice the age of these guys, he was part of the last two generations.

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04-29-2012, 10:21 PM
  #69
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American here- Sweden is definitely great at producing NHL caliber players, probably more so than the US. But better than Canada? Absolutely not-

As for the ratio of players in the sport, I can't speak for Canada, but in America the number of people playing hockey is practically nothing. American football, baseball, basketball, all blow away hockey on every level, and as for total numbers that play the sport even including non-organized pickup style games, I think soccer, volleyball and tennis still beat out hockey in popularity. It has to do with accessibility.... hockey just costs so much to play here, and I don't imagine that's different in Canada either. Kids grow up playing sports that are accessible, and for many families hockey is never even an option

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04-29-2012, 10:26 PM
  #70
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Is this a joke? Some of the guys in the OP havent even produced a decent NHL season yet. LOL.

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04-29-2012, 11:02 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottishCanuck View Post
This is a thread about Sweden, not Canada.

So typical. I love Canada, but man some of you guys are arrogant when it comes to hockey.
"Country of 9.5 million (1/3rd the size of Canada)"

Direct post from the start of the thread. Directly referencing canada. Op could have said its 1/31 the size of USA or compared it to Russia but he choose Canada and now the swedes are offended Canadians are discussing the thread not just throwing praise at your country

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04-29-2012, 11:26 PM
  #72
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Haha Canadiens getting way too worked up because another country also develops superstar caliber players. Always fun when a large group gets overly sensitive over nothing.

Swedes seem to master everything they try. It isn't surprising that they know how to develop elite hockey players in bulk.

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04-29-2012, 11:28 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
"Country of 9.5 million (1/3rd the size of Canada)"

Direct post from the start of the thread. Directly referencing canada. Op could have said its 1/31 the size of USA or compared it to Russia but he choose Canada and now the swedes are offended Canadians are discussing the thread not just throwing praise at your country
He probably referenced Canada because it's their #1 sport. Using the USA would be stupid since most athletes play different sports than hockey. Everyone knows hockey is Canada's game and that more people play hockey there, so why not compare another country to them? It just means they set a standard and every other country is playing catch up.

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04-29-2012, 11:35 PM
  #74
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Sweden was tying Team Canada in major international games since 1972

Canada has 30 million people and is the center of the hockey universe.

Sweden has significantly more NHL stars than Finland does, but has an extremely similar climate and wide arrange of frozen ponds to play some hockey on in the middle of winter.

I don't think many countries have as many great locations for shinny in natural rinks, than Sweden and Finland. Sure Russia and Canada probably have more... but Sweden and Finland probably have better acess to frozen lakes and ponds than Canada or Russia as a whole. Finland is literally covered in lakes and ponds, and Sweden also has a lot of ponds.

Look at Canada, and the US... what regions produce the most hockey players per capita? Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Michigan, Minnesota... all cold, and all have lots of frozen lakes and ponds.

When you compare Russia to another hockey giant like Russia... it's absolutely remarkable Sweden has as many good players as they do.

Personally I think Russia is the only hockey nation that compares to Canada, but Sweden is just about there really. It's incredible how many good players come from Sweden.

There's definitely something special about Sweden.

There's not many Canadian cities under 100 thousand that can begin to compete with producing as many NHL players as Örnsköldsvik, Sweden.

It's pretty remarkable. I think it would be a great place to play some outdoor hockey in the winter time.

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04-29-2012, 11:47 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbuds View Post
I play juvenile (Junior C) in British Columbia and in my experience, if you don't play rep('A' or 'B' level) and put up large amounts of money and time for hockey, the development system is not good at all. Playing "house" (local hockey) consists or a 1hour and 15 minute practice and possibly a game a week (the odd week doesn't have a game).

So you get a practice half the length of a "rep" practice and maybe a game a week. The people coaching you are the parents of the kids on the team and very rarely are they good ones (doing the same drills every week, don't have any sort of a system, useless drills).

This is just my experience playing on Vancouver Island and I do remember a much stronger development system when I lived and played in Edmonton.
Obviously development at that level is crappy, nobody playing there is going to make the NHL (no offense).

This is why it's extremely short-sighted to just look at registered players. Obviously when you have many, many more registered players they're not all going to get the same treatment, that's ridiculous. I'd say 5% of Canada's registered players are actually a part of the system which Canada uses to produce NHL-caliber players, and that's being extremely generous. It's pretty clear that when you have a much smaller, more manageable number of registered players (Sweden), a higher percentage will get the benefits of the developmental system. If a country took a small number of kids and focused and put all their attention into grooming them into NHL players, it seems logical to me that a higher percentage would turn out (not saying this is Sweden's system in particular, just using an extreme example of why registered players is an irrelevant stat).

I know every non-Canadian on hf likes to team up on us but how exactly is it arrogant for Canadians to bump their chests about their developmental system but it's fine for Sweden?

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