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The Official Jordan Staal Thread, Part II

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04-29-2012, 05:27 PM
  #1
jmelm
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The Official Jordan Staal Thread, Part II

Other thread is closed, so let's go!

I'm going to re-post my Nashville trade proposal for discussion, as I still think it is realistic & makes sense:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Nashville Proposal:


I've been thinking about possible destinations & trade partners for Staal, and I think Nashville makes sense for a number of reasons:

- they are in the West, and it would be great to not have to face Jordon too often
- Shero & Poile have an obvious connection & strong relationship, which could help fascilitate a deal
- Nashville has an abundance of young assets on defense, as well as some other good young players/prospects in their system, but...
- Nashville has a distinct need for a top centerman -- as much as any team in the NHL


So, here is my proposal

Jordan Staal + Brian Strait (or 2nd round pick)

for

-Austin Watson (has been very good this year; can play centre or wing; plays both special teams; could be a very good 2nd or 3rd line centre in the NHL)
-Colin Wilson (young, talented player with a lot of upside; can play centre or wing; I still think he has 1st or 2nd line potential)
-Roman Jossi OR a signed Ryan Suter (either would be a future top-4 left-side Dman)


This is an extremely strong package, IMO, and not far out of the realm of reality. Perhaps Pens would need to add a small piece or two -- and this would be contingent upon Staal agreeing to discuss an extension with Nashville -- but this is a deal I would do.

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04-29-2012, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
-Roman Jossi OR a signed Ryan Suter (either would be a future top-4 left-side Dman)
That's like saying Beau Bennett or James Neal.

One is not like the other...especially when the other is signed.

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04-29-2012, 05:37 PM
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I would drive Staal to the airport if he landed us Watson, Wilson and a signed Suter. Not a chance Nashville makes that deal.

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04-29-2012, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by GarrettC View Post
I would drive Staal to the airport if he landed us Watson, Wilson and a signed Suter. Not a chance Nashville makes that deal.
You would not have to, cause Mario and Ray would rent a private jet with beautiful girls for Staal and buy a nice big house in Nashville for him

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04-29-2012, 05:41 PM
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jmelm
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
That's like saying Beau Bennett or James Neal.

One is not like the other...especially when the other is signed.
I'm not saying that they are identical players; obviously they are slightly different players and are at very different points in their career and salary structure. BUT, they are both great assets that could be part of a strong package that would make sense for us.

And that being said, they do both share some characteristics:

- Suter is a legit #1 or (at worst) #2 defenseman on an NHL team. Jossi, while young, is playing big minutes in the top 4 of the league's best defensive squad. Like Suter, Jossi has top-2 potential, probably as soon as next season (Jossi would certainly be a more appropriate consideration for replacing Martin in our top-4 than Despres)

- Like Suter, Jossi a left-handed defenseman that could play the left side in our top-4 (we have a lot of righties in our system)

- Like Suter, Jossi is a legitimate option on a 1st or 2nd unit PP and either would be right behind Letang as our 2nd best offensive defenseman on the team

So in terms of the kinds of roles either of those players could fill for us short & long term is actually a lot more similar than it is different, so your Bennett-Neal analogy is way off -- one guy is a good but not blue-chip prospect, while the other is an NHL all-star. Jossi & Suter are both good NHL players, and Jossi would have played top-4 all season long if he wasn't injured.


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Originally Posted by GarrettC View Post
I would drive Staal to the airport if he landed us Watson, Wilson and a signed Suter. Not a chance Nashville makes that deal.

I agree, on paper it may be a lot. But in reality, if they don't sign Suter, they get nothing for him, except maybe a 2nd/3rd rounder like NSH got for Hamhuis. Including Strait or a 2nd gives them that back; and Watson + Wilson (who has been a regular healthy scratch) is not enough for Jordan Staal by themselves. Jossi would be an option if they were able to sign Suter to an extension.

As I said, perhaps Pittsburgh needs to add -- i.e. both Strait AND a pick, or increase the pick to a 1st from a 2nd -- but it's not far off fair value if Staal would sign a long-term extension in Nashville.

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04-29-2012, 05:48 PM
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I don't like that deal. The main piece there to me is Suter, and we can just make a run at him in free agency instead of trading for him. Plus the trade hinges on him being willing to sign with us, but if he was willing to do so, why wouldn't he be willing to via free agency?

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04-29-2012, 05:52 PM
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Later tonight, I'll be posting a blog about Jordan Staal and where he'll likely end up if he doesn't sign a new deal with Pens this summer.
As if this dundernuts has any idea with whom Shero will make a deal. I'll still look forward to reading it, though

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04-29-2012, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
Josh Yohe ‏ @JoshYohe_Trib


As if this dundernuts has any idea with whom Shero will make a deal. I'll still look forward to reading it, though
I find Josh Yohe even more annoying than Rossi, if that's even possible. It's something about his face and how smug he looks. In terms of their articles, they are both about as bad.

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04-29-2012, 06:01 PM
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I find Josh Yohe even more annoying than Rossi, if that's even possible. It's something about his face and how smug he looks. In terms of their articles, they are both about as bad.
Probably lifted from one of the threads on the trade board ...

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04-29-2012, 06:33 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
I'm not saying that they are identical players; obviously they are slightly different players and are at very different points in their career and salary structure. BUT, they are both great assets that could be part of a strong package that would make sense for us.

And that being said, they do both share some characteristics:

- Suter is a legit #1 or (at worst) #2 defenseman on an NHL team. Jossi, while young, is playing big minutes in the top 4 of the league's best defensive squad. Like Suter, Jossi has top-2 potential, probably as soon as next season (Jossi would certainly be a more appropriate consideration for replacing Martin in our top-4 than Despres)

- Like Suter, Jossi a left-handed defenseman that could play the left side in our top-4 (we have a lot of righties in our system)

- Like Suter, Jossi is a legitimate option on a 1st or 2nd unit PP and either would be right behind Letang as our 2nd best offensive defenseman on the team

So in terms of the kinds of roles either of those players could fill for us short & long term is actually a lot more similar than it is different, so your Bennett-Neal analogy is way off -- one guy is a good but not blue-chip prospect, while the other is an NHL all-star. Jossi & Suter are both good NHL players, and Jossi would have played top-4 all season long if he wasn't injured.





I agree, on paper it may be a lot. But in reality, if they don't sign Suter, they get nothing for him, except maybe a 2nd/3rd rounder like NSH got for Hamhuis. Including Strait or a 2nd gives them that back; and Watson + Wilson (who has been a regular healthy scratch) is not enough for Jordan Staal by themselves. Jossi would be an option if they were able to sign Suter to an extension.

As I said, perhaps Pittsburgh needs to add -- i.e. both Strait AND a pick, or increase the pick to a 1st from a 2nd -- but it's not far off fair value if Staal would sign a long-term extension in Nashville.
Suter could lay claim at being a Norris Trophy caliber defenseman. Whether the kid is playing in the top 4 or not...he's not Suter.

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04-29-2012, 07:46 PM
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Thoughts on this buffalo proposal...

Roy/Stafford - both have 4 million cap hits, roy is a former PPG players coming off a bad year, stafford scored 31 goals in 62 games last year and was having an off year this year before playing near PPG for the last 20 games of the season.

+

Adam/Armia- our top two offensive prospects, you probably know about adam, was in the NHL young stars game, put up twenty something points in fifty games, joel armia was our first rounder from last year, played this season in finland and apperead at WJC, I see him being a consistent 30+ sniper

+

BUF 1st/Jhonas Enroth- 12th overall pick or if youre worried about fleury, one of the top goalie prospects in the league, put up some pretty inpresive numbers this season, think he played around twenty to thirty games and had a save percentage around 930.

Thoughts?

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04-29-2012, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Thoughts on this buffalo proposal...

Roy/Stafford - both have 4 million cap hits, roy is a former PPG players coming off a bad year, stafford scored 31 goals in 62 games last year and was having an off year this year before playing near PPG for the last 20 games of the season.

+

Adam/Armia- our top two offensive prospects, you probably know about adam, was in the NHL young stars game, put up twenty something points in fifty games, joel armia was our first rounder from last year, played this season in finland and apperead at WJC, I see him being a consistent 30+ sniper

+

BUF 1st/Jhonas Enroth- 12th overall pick or if youre worried about fleury, one of the top goalie prospects in the league, put up some pretty inpresive numbers this season, think he played around twenty to thirty games and had a save percentage around 930.

Thoughts?
Take out Roy and that looks familiar

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04-29-2012, 07:54 PM
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Take out Roy and that looks familiar
Yup its yours, wanted to get pens fans take on it

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04-29-2012, 09:06 PM
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I'm just not sold on the idea that Staal is going to be:
1.looking for so much of a raise we can't afford him
and
2.really sees leaving as beneficial.

I mean how much do you people actually think Staal would get from a competitive team. The last part being an important factor. On a team that is any good I can't see Staal getting more than the likes of Ryan Kesler or Jame Neal. Neal is coming off a 80+ pt campaign and Kesler has two 70+ pt years under his belt while playing Staal like two way hockey. While I love Staal I don't see him as a guy who deserves to make 5 mil or more a year.

I can't see a competitive team wanting to give Staal a huge raise after two injury shortened seasons regardless of his jump in production this year. He's not a guy who is a teams top player, he's a guy on par with a Pavelski a good 30/30 two way guy. . . a four mil a year guy. I think if Shero offers him 4.5 on a long deal he takes it and runs.

Second, everyone believes that he's going to want to leave for what, more playing time? a bigger role in an offense? He played two minutes less per game than Geno and a minute less per game than Sid in the playoffs. I can't really see someone wanting to leave a competitive team to play two minutes more a game on Toronto or Dallas.

He has friends on this team, it is a team that has a budget to be competitive every year, and he gets plenty of playing time even if he is playing "behind" Geno and Sid.

I dont see the need to trade him and I cant see the rational behind him wanting to leave. If we are worried about cap space:
trade martin for scraps... if brian freaking campbell can get moved then paul martin can as well. . .
trade TK and his two mil a year contract. He's coming off a strong playoff I'm sure someone would bite.
Dont resign Sully... thats a combined 8.5 mil in cap space.

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04-29-2012, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by GarrettC View Post
I would drive Staal to the airport if he landed us Watson, Wilson and a signed Suter. Not a chance Nashville makes that deal.
Yeah, if Nashville could get Suter's signature on a contract, they're not gonna trade him. Especially for Jordan Staal, even straight up. Nash likes Suter even more than Weber, who's flashier but not as steady.

I would have loved for a STL trade for Staal, but with their success recently, doesn't make much sense for them to need a big shakeup.

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04-29-2012, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bishop7979 View Post
I'm just not sold on the idea that Staal is going to be:
1.looking for so much of a raise we can't afford him
and
2.really sees leaving as beneficial.

I mean how much do you people actually think Staal would get from a competitive team. The last part being an important factor. On a team that is any good I can't see Staal getting more than the likes of Ryan Kesler or Jame Neal. Neal is coming off a 80+ pt campaign and Kesler has two 70+ pt years under his belt while playing Staal like two way hockey. While I love Staal I don't see him as a guy who deserves to make 5 mil or more a year.

I can't see a competitive team wanting to give Staal a huge raise after two injury shortened seasons regardless of his jump in production this year. He's not a guy who is a teams top player, he's a guy on par with a Pavelski a good 30/30 two way guy. . . a four mil a year guy. I think if Shero offers him 4.5 on a long deal he takes it and runs.

Second, everyone believes that he's going to want to leave for what, more playing time? a bigger role in an offense? He played two minutes less per game than Geno and a minute less per game than Sid in the playoffs. I can't really see someone wanting to leave a competitive team to play two minutes more a game on Toronto or Dallas.

He has friends on this team, it is a team that has a budget to be competitive every year, and he gets plenty of playing time even if he is playing "behind" Geno and Sid.

I dont see the need to trade him and I cant see the rational behind him wanting to leave. If we are worried about cap space:
trade martin for scraps... if brian freaking campbell can get moved then paul martin can as well. . .
trade TK and his two mil a year contract. He's coming off a strong playoff I'm sure someone would bite.
Dont resign Sully... thats a combined 8.5 mil in cap space.
Brian cambell is one of the top offensive defenseman in the league... And as a buffalo fan I would be estatic if we signed staal for 7 million a year on july 1st 2013 and I dont think im the only one, 50 points in 60 games at the age of 24 while being big and one of the best defenders in the league will get him a lot more than 4.5

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04-29-2012, 10:45 PM
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That's like saying Beau Bennett or James Neal.

One is not like the other...especially when the other is signed.
lol was thinking the same thing......was going to compare it to Joe Vitale or a signed Crosby.

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04-29-2012, 10:46 PM
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I would drive Staal to the airport if he landed us Watson, Wilson and a signed Suter. Not a chance Nashville makes that deal.
Nashville would make that deal if they knew they werent going to be able to sign Suter. They could give the Pens the right to negotiate a deal with Suter and if a deal didnt get signed the deal wouldnt go through. Same thing the Pens will more than likely do with any team that is going to trade for Staal.

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04-29-2012, 10:51 PM
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I'd buy Staal's plane ticket to Nashville if it meant a signed Suter was coming back. The others are just gravy.

Sign me the **** up.

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04-29-2012, 11:15 PM
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Nashville would make that deal if they knew they werent going to be able to sign Suter. They could give the Pens the right to negotiate a deal with Suter and if a deal didnt get signed the deal wouldnt go through. Same thing the Pens will more than likely do with any team that is going to trade for Staal.
Because trading a tangible asset for a Nashville defenseman has worked out so well for the Penguins.

No thanks. If Suter's rights got traded to the Pens in June, he'd have absolutely no reason to sign with Pittsburgh, unless they were offering market value ($7+ million long-term). Even if the Pens can dump Martin at the draft, that's probably not a good idea since they have to sign Crosby and Malkin again in the near future. And any potential Suter deal they'd have to match for Letang in a few years time.

If the Pens are gonna trade Jordan Staal this summer, surely there's a smarter option than the prime piece being more than 10 days of exclusive negotiation rights for an elite player who's shown every indication of hitting the open market. Even if "the deal wouldn't go through", it wouldn't go through in the first place, no reason to trade Staal for a prospect or two + Suter, when it's probably going to be nearly impossible to sign Suter without giving him the $$ he wants, which the Pens can painfully not fit in the salary cap, even if they are able to work around Martin's limited NTC.

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04-29-2012, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Brian cambell is one of the top offensive defenseman in the league... And as a buffalo fan I would be estatic if we signed staal for 7 million a year on july 1st 2013 and I dont think im the only one, 50 points in 60 games at the age of 24 while being big and one of the best defenders in the league will get him a lot more than 4.5
But Campbell was coming off of two straight subpar years in Chi while sporting a steeper contract hit than Martin does. Fla was the only team willing to take a chance on him because they needed to get to the cap floor... I mean all chi got for him was Olesz. I'm saying if Chi found a team willing to take a defender making over 7 mil a year after two sub 30 pt campaigns I think the Pens can find a suitor for martin.

7 mil a year for Staal... seriously? That would make him cap hit wise, one of the top 15 paid players in the league. There is no way in hell Jordan Staal is a 7 mil a year player.

If getting that extra minute a game is that important to Staal the Pens with resign him and stick him on a line with Sid or Geno before they will trade him. Geno has his five million dollar line mate in Neal, Sid can have his in Staal.

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04-29-2012, 11:23 PM
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What would it take for the Oilers to land Staal?

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04-29-2012, 11:27 PM
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But Campbell was coming off of two straight subpar years in Chi while sporting a steeper contract hit than Martin does. Fla was the only team willing to take a chance on him because they needed to get to the cap floor... I mean all chi got for him was Olesz. I'm saying if Chi found a team willing to take a defender making over 7 mil a year after two sub 30 pt campaigns I think the Pens can find a suitor for martin.

7 mil a year for Staal... seriously? That would make him cap hit wise, one of the top 15 paid players in the league. There is no way in hell Jordan Staal is a 7 mil a year player.
I think hes one of the top 30-50 players in the league and open market will notch you up that much, I think if he came to buffalo or any other team where he was the numeber one guy between wingers like vanek and pomminville he would be a ppg player, thats big, and defends like a boss, I just see no way he gets less than 6 million, so I think your expectation of 4.5 is really wishful thinking

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04-29-2012, 11:33 PM
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What would it take for the Oilers to land Staal?
It's hard to say, I don't think it's a good fit. Staal's a year away from UFA, and no offense to Edmonton, but I would have to think he's a big time flight risk next July 1 for a team in a better position to compete AND pay him the $$ he'll get. If I was Edmonton, I wouldn't want Staal unless he would sign an extension first, and if I'm Staal, there's absolutely no reason to do that.

But, to answer the question, I would think the Pens would seek an Eberle or the pick for Yakupov. It's a really steep price to pay for Pittsburgh to move him, and doesn't really make sense for Edmonton to leave themselves open to get burned given the contract situation.

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04-29-2012, 11:41 PM
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It's hard to say, I don't think it's a good fit. Staal's a year away from UFA, and no offense to Edmonton, but I would have to think he's a big time flight risk next July 1 for a team in a better position to compete AND pay him the $$ he'll get. If I was Edmonton, I wouldn't want Staal unless he would sign an extension first, and if I'm Staal, there's absolutely no reason to do that.

But, to answer the question, I would think the Pens would seek an Eberle or the pick for Yakupov. It's a really steep price to pay for Pittsburgh to move him, and doesn't really make sense for Edmonton to leave themselves open to get burned given the contract situation.
I think he would resign in edmonton although I dont know what there financial situation is, a young forward core of RNH,Jebs,Thall,Nail and staal would he ridiculous, not sure edmonton could swing it without trading one of there young stars though, maybe Hemsky+Gagner+2013 1st+Omark ot something like that

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