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Unofficial Rumor & Proposal Thread Part IX: Draft day moves, and beyond

View Poll Results: If EDM drafts Yakapov should EDM trade or keep Hemsky?
Trade Hemsky 59 23.89%
Keep Hemsky 188 76.11%
Voters: 247. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-29-2012, 08:57 PM
  #51
Eskimo44
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
Both players play the right wing, we all know that Hemsky can not play the left wing.
Since when and why not? I believe he played there when Samsanov would play on his line, and i know he has played there (and center) with Jagr on the Czech team.

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04-29-2012, 08:57 PM
  #52
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The big question is why should we keep him?

He wasn't worth what he made last season and now he got a raise!

Until he plays 70+ games in a season and puts up 70+ points he isn't worth his cap hit or his roster spot.

Even after he got resigned he played horrible hockey.
Even after we were more or less healthy(Hall out) he couldn't put points up.

Trade him for an 8th rounder for all I care. Bring in a UFA to play in his place. If we can't find an appropriate UFA have Hartikainen play in his place. Yes, Hartikainen still needs to learn to skate faster to keep up with the kids. I hope he works on that in the off-season. If Gagner can do it, then he certainly can.

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04-29-2012, 09:00 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
The big question is why should we keep him?

He wasn't worth what he made last season and now he got a raise!

Until he plays 70+ games in a season and puts up 70+ points he isn't worth his cap hit or his roster spot.

Even after he got resigned he played horrible hockey.
Even after we were more or less healthy(Hall out) he couldn't put points up.

Trade him for an 8th rounder for all I care. Bring in a UFA to play in his place. If we can't find an appropriate UFA have Hartikainen play in his place. Yes, Hartikainen still needs to learn to skate faster to keep up with the kids. I hope he works on that in the off-season. If Gagner can do it, then he certainly can.


He has two seasons where he had 70+ points and played 70+ games.

2005-2006
2007-2008

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04-29-2012, 09:03 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
He has two seasons where he had 70+ points and played 70+ games.

2005-2006
2007-2008
Yes. That was FOUR YEARS AGO!

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04-29-2012, 09:04 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
The big question is why should we keep him?

He wasn't worth what he made last season and now he got a raise!

Until he plays 70+ games in a season and puts up 70+ points he isn't worth his cap hit or his roster spot.

Even after he got resigned he played horrible hockey.
Even after we were more or less healthy(Hall out) he couldn't put points up.

Trade him for an 8th rounder for all I care. Bring in a UFA to play in his place. If we can't find an appropriate UFA have Hartikainen play in his place. Yes, Hartikainen still needs to learn to skate faster to keep up with the kids. I hope he works on that in the off-season. If Gagner can do it, then he certainly can.
There are so many things wrong with this post. I don't know where to start.

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04-29-2012, 09:08 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
There are so many things wrong with this post. I don't know where to start.
Humor me, because I think it's going to be a rehash the same old crap.

Is Hemsky still the same guy who helped take us to the finals?

Ryan Smyth isn't. Horcoff isn't. Why are we obligated to believe that Hemsky is?

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04-29-2012, 09:15 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Humor me, because I think it's going to be a rehash the same old crap.

Is Hemsky still the same guy who helped take us to the finals?

Ryan Smyth isn't. Horcoff isn't. Why are we obligated to believe that Hemsky is?
1) Hemsky didn't get a raise
2) He has had two seasons where he played 70+ games and got 70+ points
3) He actually played quite well after signing the contract despite not putting up many points.
4) An 8th rounder? You aren't very good with asset management, are you?
5) There isn't a UFA of Hemsky's calibre on the market that will sign with us on a contract better than Hemsky's.
6) Hartikainen as a replacement for Hemsky is laughable.

How old are Smyth and Horcoff? How old is Hemsky? Players have bad years, but Hemsky is still around the age where he should be in his prime. There is a very good chance of him bouncing back.

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04-29-2012, 09:17 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
There are so many things wrong with this post. I don't know where to start.
'There are only seven rounds in the draft,' might be a good place to start.

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04-29-2012, 09:20 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Asher View Post
'There are only seven rounds in the draft,' might be a good place to start.
...that too

I knew that...I swear...

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04-29-2012, 09:23 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
1) Hemsky didn't get a raise
2) He has had two seasons where he played 70+ games and got 70+ points
3) He actually played quite well after signing the contract despite not putting up many points.
4) An 8th rounder? You aren't very good with asset management, are you?
5) There isn't a UFA of Hemsky's calibre on the market that will sign with us on a contract better than Hemsky's.
6) Hartikainen as a replacement for Hemsky is laughable.

How old are Smyth and Horcoff? How old is Hemsky? Players have bad years, but Hemsky is still around the age where he should be in his prime. There is a very good chance of him bouncing back.
1) Going from 4.1M per year to 5M per year is a raise. Capgeek is great.
2) When was that? He hasn't reached either of those stats in four years.
3) Playing well and not putting up points. What's he paid to do? Win face-offs? Block shots? Hit people? Stay out of the penalty box? Why don't you actually go look at his stats for the season.
4) An 8th rounder is a tad bit sarcastic, but I don't expect to get anything significant for him.
5) Yes, there's isn't a UFA on the market who we could sign for 5M or less who could play as well as Hemsky did 4 years ago. Wake up. This is 2012. Not 2008.
6) No. Yakupov is an incredible replacement for Hemsky. He will play in the 12/13 season. He's already Hemsky's size and he hasn't A) Had time to put on weight over the off-season. B) Get in better shape for the columbine. C) Gone through training camp.

Please think things out before you try to nuke me.

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Old
04-29-2012, 09:24 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher View Post
'There are only seven rounds in the draft,' might be a good place to start.
I believe in the last thread I suggested an 11th rounder for Hemsky. If you can't see through my sarcasm then I have no pity for you.

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04-29-2012, 09:31 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
1) Going from 4.1M per year to 5M per year is a raise. Capgeek is great.
2) When was that? He hasn't reached either of those stats in four years.
3) Playing well and not putting up points. What's he paid to do? Win face-offs? Block shots? Hit people? Stay out of the penalty box? Why don't you actually go look at his stats for the season.
4) An 8th rounder is a tad bit sarcastic, but I don't expect to get anything significant for him.
5) Yes, there's isn't a UFA on the market who we could sign for 5M or less who could play as well as Hemsky did 4 years ago. Wake up. This is 2012. Not 2008.
6) No. Yakupov is an incredible replacement for Hemsky. He will play in the 12/13 season. He's already Hemsky's size and he hasn't A) Had time to put on weight over the off-season. B) Get in better shape for the columbine. C) Gone through training camp.

Please think things out before you try to nuke me.
What are you even trying to say? Is hemsky not a top 6 player on any NHL team?

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04-29-2012, 09:32 PM
  #63
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When you open capgeek next time, try clicking on the Salaries tab.

You will see that he made 5.0 this season.

Doesn't seem like a raise to me.

I'm no Hemsky fan, I was hoping we would trade him for a bag of Doritos and half a stale coke, but facts are facts.

His cap hit went up, not his salary from this year to next year

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04-29-2012, 09:36 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senorchang View Post
What are you even trying to say? Is hemsky not a top 6 player on any NHL team?
Not on mine if I can't expect him to play 70 games, and put up a respectable amount of points while he's actually healthy.

Even that idiot Dan Tencer realizes that his shoulder is screwed. What more do you need to move on?

Yes this team does need vets. But we don't need useless vets who're no longer effective who do nothing more than suck the air out of the room.

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04-29-2012, 09:38 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazzy13 View Post
When you open capgeek next time, try clicking on the Salaries tab.

You will see that he made 5.0 this season.

Doesn't seem like a raise to me.

I'm no Hemsky fan, I was hoping we would trade him for a bag of Doritos and half a stale coke, but facts are facts.

His cap hit went up, not his salary from this year to next year
Thanks for clearing that up. It's still a raise to me, because he's using up more of our cap space.

Yes, we're getting more cap space from the raise in the cap at the end of the season, but I'd rather save that for something useful like resigning the kids, signing a top 4 d-man and maybe signing a goalie if we need to somewhere down the line.

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04-29-2012, 09:42 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Not on mine if I can't expect him to play 70 games, and put up a respectable amount of points while he's actually healthy.

Even that idiot Dan Tencer realizes that his shoulder is screwed. What more do you need to move on?

Yes this team does need vets. But we don't need useless vets who're no longer effective who do nothing more than suck the air out of the room.
Players get injured. Players bounce back from injuries. Welcome to Hockey. Tim Thomas had hip surgery and bounced back to a Vezina and a Conn Smythe.

Give the guy a chance before you start writing him off for garbage. His value may be low, but his skill would crack top 6 on any team in the league, heck he'd crack plenty of top lines.

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04-29-2012, 09:46 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
1) Going from 4.1M per year to 5M per year is a raise. Capgeek is great.
2) When was that? He hasn't reached either of those stats in four years.
3) Playing well and not putting up points. What's he paid to do? Win face-offs? Block shots? Hit people? Stay out of the penalty box? Why don't you actually go look at his stats for the season.
4) An 8th rounder is a tad bit sarcastic, but I don't expect to get anything significant for him.
5) Yes, there's isn't a UFA on the market who we could sign for 5M or less who could play as well as Hemsky did 4 years ago. Wake up. This is 2012. Not 2008.
6) No. Yakupov is an incredible replacement for Hemsky. He will play in the 12/13 season. He's already Hemsky's size and he hasn't A) Had time to put on weight over the off-season. B) Get in better shape for the columbine. C) Gone through training camp.

Please think things out before you try to nuke me.
First off, watch your tone please.

1) Click on the salary tab beside the cap hit tab. Hemsky was paid 5M this season.
2) He's still in his prime and guys like Havlat and Gaborik bounced back after everyone wrote them off due to injuries. Why can't Hemsky, especially if he's paired with a dynamic sniper like Yakupov?
3) Yup he was bad this season. But plenty of good players have had a bad season. Hemsky is still young enough to rebound.
4) If you don't expect to get anything why move him when we have no better options? Why not let him raise his trade value passing to Yakupov.
5) Hemsky remains our best bet at a point getter on the 2nd line. Why sign some schlub we know can't do it instead of giving a 2nd chance to a guy who we draft, who's been here forever, and played very well for us?
6) Yakupov is a great talent, but he is still a kid. Maybe in 2 years guys like Yakupov, Paajarvi and Hartikainen make Hemsky redundant, but we aren't there yet.


Last edited by s7ark: 04-29-2012 at 09:52 PM.
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04-29-2012, 09:48 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Humor me, because I think it's going to be a rehash the same old crap.

Is Hemsky still the same guy who helped take us to the finals?

Ryan Smyth isn't. Horcoff isn't. Why are we obligated to believe that Hemsky is?
I was about to come up with a rebuttal about how Smyth's age plays a large factor, which for the most part I believe it do, and how Horcoff is not even on the same page as Hemsky when it comes to skill level but to be honest, the more I thought about it the more I realized you're probably right. Looking back on Horcoff's numbers during the prime of his career, they're not so different than Hemsky's production. I'm not even going to make a remark about Smyth because as I said before, I believe his age and style of play throughout his career has taken it's toll on Smyth so it's a pretty good argument as to why he's lost a step or two. Wrt Horcoff, there's no denying he isn't the same player he was a few years ago. Like Hemsky, he's still too young to blame age for his drastic drop in play. So if Horcoff's game can drop off like this and with all the injuries and games lost why should we even think that Hemsky can compete at the same level he has in the past?

In saying that, I'm still a believer that it's better for this team to keep Hemsky around at least until next year's trade deadline. For one, I haven't forgotten how great of a player Ales was in the past and even though his numbers were down this year, he showed glimpses of his past self when he finally became healthy this year. If he can show this on a more consistent basis than there's no denying we'll have a gem in Hemsky who will be worth too much to this team to just ship out. IMO that alone was enough to make his re-signing worth the risk. Also I think that if we trade him this quick after signing him to an extension then this will pass along such a bad message to targeted free agents that we'll go right back to the team that no one wants to sign with. Not to mention that all the other players looking for lengthy extensions will demand no trade clauses and we've all seen that come back to bite teams in the butts in the past. I think next season will be a huge test for Hemsky and if he can't produce enough to lock up a spot in the top 6 with this team then he will be gone by the deadline.

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04-29-2012, 09:48 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senorchang View Post
Players get injured. Players bounce back from injuries. Welcome to Hockey. Tim Thomas had hip surgery and bounced back to a Vezina and a Conn Smythe.

Give the guy a chance before you start writing him off for garbage. His value may be low, but his skill would crack top 6 on any team in the league, heck he'd crack plenty of top lines.
He wasn't injury prone for 4 years.

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04-29-2012, 09:51 PM
  #70
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Since when and why not? I believe he played there when Samsanov would play on his line, and i know he has played there (and center) with Jagr on the Czech team.
How effective was Hemsky playing with Jagr? I don't know where to watch international games.

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04-29-2012, 09:53 PM
  #71
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It isn't a big deal that we signed Hemsky since we probably won't be in the playoffs for 2 years.

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04-29-2012, 09:54 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
First off, watch your tone please.

1) Click on the salary tab beside the cap hit tab. Hemsky was paid 5M this season.
2) He's still in his prime and guys like Havlat and Gaborik bounced back after everyone wrote them off due to injuries. Why can't Hemsky, especially if he's paired with a dynamic sniper like Yakupov?
3) Yup he was bad this season. But plenty of good players have had a bad season. Hemsky is still young enough to rebound.
4) If you don't expect to get anything why move him when we have no better options? Why not let him raise his trade value passing to Yakupov.
5) Hemsky remains our best bet at a point getter on the 2nd line. Why sign some schlub we know can't do it instead of give a 2nd chance to a guy who's been here forever and played very well for us?
6) Yakupov is a great talent, but he is still a kid. Maybe in 2 years guys like Yakupov, Paajarvi and Hartikainen make Hemsky redundant, but we aren't there yet.
1) Yes. Now look at Luongo's contract. He's making 1M in the last season. I don't expect him to play the last year of that contract but if he did... and if he was given 3M in the last year of that contract would that be considered a raise just because he made more money than what he did in the last season? He's getting a raise because his average salary throughout the entirety of the contract is higher.
2) Yes. I suggested earlier in the year that someone would be crazy enough to sign Hemsky for 6M and that he he could turn into the next Gaborik. I probably said it half a dozen times. I don't feel it's in our best interest in rolling the dice on that one.
3) Yes. Again you're rolling the dice on a guy who hasn't had a good season for four years. He didn't just have a bad season. He's just had his forth bad season.
4) Yakupov and Hartikianen are better options. Yakupov can put the puck in the net and Hartikainen can provide a physical presence. Heck. Even Dustin Penner would be better. He's got decent hands, he's big and he stays healthy.
5) I'd rather have a decent player play 80 games than have a good player play 30 games.
6) That's just a matter of opinion. I believe most of what I've said has been based off of cold hard facts.

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04-29-2012, 10:00 PM
  #73
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He wasn't injury prone for 4 years.
He played 70 games this season.

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04-29-2012, 10:04 PM
  #74
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Keep Hemsky and play his 5 million dollar A$$ with Yakupov and see if sparks fly with some chemistry between them ad others on the team.

Hemsky can still be a decent piece up front and even if not his trade value can go nowhere but up since it was near zero last season. I'm hoping he has a rebound year and puts up some decent numbers... better for the Oilers and from a trade perspective as well.

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04-29-2012, 10:11 PM
  #75
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I'd say there are very limited trade options out there (if we're going to consider other team's needs and why they'd actually do it).

OTT - If Alfie retires then they really lack skill on the wing (especially RW). Hemsky would be a good fit there (played one of his best games against the Sens last year). They'd probably want to send similar salary back and we need D, likely means Gonchar comes back (could be good to have another Ruskie with Nail).

In a less likely scenario, maybe we could do Gagner, Hemsky for Grabovski, Kulemin?
Why would we want Grabo for; I would be interested in Kuli as he brings some size. Grabo is small like Gagner.

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