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OTT-NYI Proposal

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:27 PM
  #1
Skrymir
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OTT-NYI Proposal

To OTT: Dave Scatchard ($1,400,000)

To NYI: Antoine Vermette ($750,000--less if he plays in the minors)

Since Scatchard is apparently available I thought I'd throw this out there. New York sheds some salary, while receiving a young forward whose got lots of upside. The sens finally get that center who can win those important faceoffs, and play a solid 2-way game.

I know I'll probably get greif from both sides, but it's worth a shot.

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11-21-2003, 09:33 PM
  #2
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrymir
To OTT: Dave Scatchard ($1,400,000)

To NYI: Antoine Vermette ($750,000--less if he plays in the minors)

Since Scatchard is apparently available I thought I'd throw this out there. New York sheds some salary, while receiving a young forward whose got lots of upside. The sens finally get that center who can win those important faceoffs, and play a solid 2-way game.

I know I'll probably get greif from both sides, but it's worth a shot.

"Apparently available?" Since when does a rumor that the Isles might move him at some point for $ reasons (which seems unlikely given his salary) mean he is "apparently available"?

No offense meant, my friend, for I know you to be a very informed and balanced poster. But, I think you are backing out the car before raising the garage door!

Anyway, I don't know much about Vermette but doubt he is what the Isles will be looking for if them move Scatchard. I also think that Ottawa (who may face the Isles in the playoffs again) is going to be the last place the Isles want to send Scatch.

Good to see you posting on the main board again, btw, it has been a little while.

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Old
11-21-2003, 09:33 PM
  #3
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NYI would have to exhaust all options before they'd consider moving Scatchard. However, the trade is very balanced.

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Old
11-22-2003, 02:32 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrymir
To OTT: Dave Scatchard ($1,400,000)

To NYI: Antoine Vermette ($750,000--less if he plays in the minors)

Since Scatchard is apparently available I thought I'd throw this out there. New York sheds some salary, while receiving a young forward whose got lots of upside. The sens finally get that center who can win those important faceoffs, and play a solid 2-way game.

I know I'll probably get greif from both sides, but it's worth a shot.

No thanks.This answers the Sens need but not the nyi needs:physical top 4 d-man or cheap,young 2nd line scorer.

Antoine Vermette while a promising prospect, is another unproven,young forward who joins 19-23 yr olds Hunter,Weinhandl,Bergenheim,Asham,Mapletoft to fight for limited icetime.

and the isles think that forward prospects Nilsson,Chernyk and Tunik all have lots of upside.

the last time the nyi came close to moving Scatchard,McKenzie says he would have been a key player in a two man packaging, bringing back 25 yr old Derek Morris.and that was before his 27 goal season.

I'd expect Scatchard to be packaged and to return a stud defensive prospect.

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Old
11-22-2003, 05:22 AM
  #5
Skrymir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
"Apparently available?" Since when does a rumor that the Isles might move him at some point for $ reasons (which seems unlikely given his salary) mean he is "apparently available"?

No offense meant, my friend, for I know you to be a very informed and balanced poster. But, I think you are backing out the car before raising the garage door!

Anyway, I don't know much about Vermette but doubt he is what the Isles will be looking for if them move Scatchard. I also think that Ottawa (who may face the Isles in the playoffs again) is going to be the last place the Isles want to send Scatch.

Good to see you posting on the main board again, btw, it has been a little while.
"Apparently available" means that I'd heard his name tossed around in a few other threads as someone who might be traded. Of course apperances can be deceiving but that's what I was basing this proposal off of. Also I know Scathard was one player the sens tried to get in the Yashin deal, but Milbury said no and pawned Wild Bill Muckalt off on us.

As for Vermettehe's a kid with blazing speed, probably the fastest player on the sens. When he matures I see him as cross between a Simon Gagne and a Marco Sturm id that makes any sense at all. Is he there now, of course not, but give him a season or two and he'll be that 2nd line scorer Crew mentioned the Isles were looking for.

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Old
11-22-2003, 06:09 AM
  #6
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In fact there was this post in the Isles-Hawks thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
The press has reported different amounts the nyi wants to move.I've read anywhere from $5m-$7m

NY press reports say these are the players the nyi would most likely move:

Weimer-$1.6m gone
Parrish-$2.3m
Cairns-$900,000
Scatchard-$1.3m

that's $6.2m right there

and if they are able to find a team hit hard enough by defensive injuries,they might be able to find someone to take Timmander's $1.2m.
So I think it is fair for somebody to think that Scatchard may move, since this says the NY press is saying so, and there is no need to raise the garage door first as the car is not parked there but in the street ready to go.

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Old
11-22-2003, 06:46 AM
  #7
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No thanks. Our problem is LW's so why would we trade a good looking young LWer? I agree that Scatchard is more valuable but I just don't like it. We traded Klepis and Gleason last year, which I did not mind at all, but we can't just start trading all our youngsters away, ala the leafs. Just relax, we have a Scatchard type player in Fisher who will be back by the new year. After trading Klepis and Gleason last season I guarn-dam-tee you that Muck won't move Vermette or Emery. We got to where we are buy developing our own and our strategy is not going to change.

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Old
11-22-2003, 06:54 AM
  #8
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Sens need LW, not another Center, maybe parrish who can play both sides i think, its balanced, but unliekly.

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Old
11-22-2003, 07:56 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrymir
"Apparently available" means that I'd heard his name tossed around in a few other threads as someone who might be traded. Of course apperances can be deceiving but that's what I was basing this proposal off of. Also I know Scathard was one player the sens tried to get in the Yashin deal, but Milbury said no and pawned Wild Bill Muckalt off on us.

As for Vermettehe's a kid with blazing speed, probably the fastest player on the sens. When he matures I see him as cross between a Simon Gagne and a Marco Sturm id that makes any sense at all. Is he there now, of course not, but give him a season or two and he'll be that 2nd line scorer Crew mentioned the Isles were looking for.

No worries, Skymir. LIke I said, you are one of the more informed guys here. If you're tossing a players name around, it ususally means you got it from a good source.

I haven't seen Vermette play that much but I know that he is a well regarded prospect.

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Old
11-22-2003, 07:57 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officeglen
In fact there was this post in the Isles-Hawks thread:



So I think it is fair for somebody to think that Scatchard may move, since this says the NY press is saying so, and there is no need to raise the garage door first as the car is not parked there but in the street ready to go.
LOL. Good work with the metaphors, Officeglen.

I don't agree that the NY press is suggesting that Scatchard might move at all. I know Crew raised his name a few times, but I don't agree that sources in NY are pointing to him as a likely guy to go. Now, other sources may be saying that, and that is a different issue.

I'm actually of two minds with regard to Scatch. He doens't make that much money and brings a very valuable commodity to the ice, now that Wiemer was stupidly cut loose. But, the flip side is Shawn Bates has been very effective as a third line center. The Isles may eventually move Scatch because they think Bates is more effective. I think that would be dumb, but anything can happen.

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Old
11-22-2003, 09:10 AM
  #11
officeglen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
LOL. Good work with the metaphors, Officeglen.

I don't agree that the NY press is suggesting that Scatchard might move at all. I know Crew raised his name a few times, but I don't agree that sources in NY are pointing to him as a likely guy to go. Now, other sources may be saying that, and that is a different issue.

I'm actually of two minds with regard to Scatch. He doens't make that much money and brings a very valuable commodity to the ice, now that Wiemer was stupidly cut loose. But, the flip side is Shawn Bates has been very effective as a third line center. The Isles may eventually move Scatch because they think Bates is more effective. I think that would be dumb, but anything can happen.
Personally I think it is stupid to move Scatch - almost an ideal 3rd line center - good size, great on faceoffs, can take on additional responsibilities - $1.3M is a very reasonable salary.

I can see them moving Parrish and Cairns to save money. Also if they did need to drop $6M for some reason, I can also see them trying to move one of the D + Parrish for a D if the new D is cheaper and they believe just about as effective. However I haven't a clue how to do that in a deal with Chicago*, or considering the wider picture, how they can move about $3.5M in salary in one deal in today's tight money league.

* at this point TSN announces the Isles/Hawks deal if all goes as it usually does.

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Old
11-22-2003, 09:24 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officeglen
Personally I think it is stupid to move Scatch - almost an ideal 3rd line center - good size, great on faceoffs, can take on additional responsibilities - $1.3M is a very reasonable salary.
I agree, $1.3 mil for a player of his style is a steal. I would think that the Isles would be shopping around there higher payed players like Parrish, Hamrlik or Niinimaa...

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Old
11-22-2003, 09:28 AM
  #13
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officeglen
Personally I think it is stupid to move Scatch - almost an ideal 3rd line center - good size, great on faceoffs, can take on additional responsibilities - $1.3M is a very reasonable salary.

I can see them moving Parrish and Cairns to save money. Also if they did need to drop $6M for some reason, I can also see them trying to move one of the D + Parrish for a D if the new D is cheaper and they believe just about as effective. However I haven't a clue how to do that in a deal with Chicago*, or considering the wider picture, how they can move about $3.5M in salary in one deal in today's tight money league.

* at this point TSN announces the Isles/Hawks deal if all goes as it usually does.

You are right of course. But, then you are an insightful informed individual. Unfortunately, I can't offer the same praise to the Isles GM. So, anything can happen.

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Old
11-22-2003, 09:49 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
LOL. Good work with the metaphors, Officeglen.

I don't agree that the NY press is suggesting that Scatchard might move at all. I know Crew raised his name a few times, but I don't agree that sources in NY are pointing to him as a likely guy to go. Now, other sources may be saying that, and that is a different issue.

I'm actually of two minds with regard to Scatch. He doens't make that much money and brings a very valuable commodity to the ice, now that Wiemer was stupidly cut loose. But, the flip side is Shawn Bates has been very effective as a third line center. The Isles may eventually move Scatch because they think Bates is more effective. I think that would be dumb, but anything can happen.
I agree that it would be a dumb move to trade Scatch away at this time and, based on all the scouting activity around the Isles while Scatch has been injured/not playing, I have a lot of hope that he's not going anywhere. Think about it: Scatchard plays his role better than almost any other Islander forward plays their role. Scatch is one of the games most coveted 3rd line centers because he combines a good helping of everything that he should. He's big, he can win faceoffs, he can check, fight, and- oh yeah- score 20+ goals, all while being a solid leader. IMO you can't say any other Isle fills their given role as well as Scatch fills his. Yash is a good but not outstanding first line centre and his contract is- ahem- a problem. Peca has looked like he is completely out of place on line two since the injury so I can't say he's an ideal line 2 centre; not to mention he's not cheap for a empty net getter (though i don't think that we should trade him because i think he'll eventually turn it around and be productive like JR has done). Our main wings (Hunter, Parrish, Chow and Kvasha) are producing but I challenge anyone to tell me that there aren't 5-10 guys that would do just as well or better for the comparable $$$. Granted Chow is hot,I'm assuming he doesn't score 65 goals. IF he does, I will happily eat crow.
bottomline: Scatch is outstanding for the price. I suggest that if anyone names 5 line three centres they'd rather have, they wouldn't be taking one of his attributes into account.

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Old
11-22-2003, 11:17 AM
  #15
CREW99AW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
LOL. Good work with the metaphors, Officeglen.

I don't agree that the NY press is suggesting that Scatchard might move at all. I know Crew raised his name a few times, but I don't agree that sources in NY are pointing to him as a likely guy to go. Now, other sources may be saying that, and that is a different issue.

I'm actually of two minds with regard to Scatch. He doens't make that much money and brings a very valuable commodity to the ice, now that Wiemer was stupidly cut loose. But, the flip side is Shawn Bates has been very effective as a third line center. The Isles may eventually move Scatch because they think Bates is more effective. I think that would be dumb, but anything can happen.


I'd rather see Bates($1m) go but Scatchard's got better trade value.

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Old
11-22-2003, 11:20 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zherdev
I agree, $1.3 mil for a player of his style is a steal. I would think that the Isles would be shopping around there higher payed players like Parrish, Hamrlik or Niinimaa...

isles are shopping Parrish according to the NY,Atlanta and Chicago press.

There are no rumors that they're shopping Scatchard right now.We'll see.

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Old
11-22-2003, 02:42 PM
  #17
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
I'd rather see Bates($1m) go but Scatchard's got better trade value.

True. But, the Isles are starting to have a size problem up front.

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