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Old
04-28-2012, 06:55 PM
  #1
Rorschach
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Rock, Paper, Scissors

**I know I'm in the minority on this but is there anyone else here who feels in a hockey sense that we should dominate this series? **

I wanted to get this post in before the first game started...I've been meaning to post this sort of as a follow up to my earlier "Who are we afraid of...no one but maybe Detroit" thread.

I feel like all of the hype surrounding this series is too much. And all of the "well during the regular season, we..." talk is irrelevant...the talk coming from our fans and St. L's fans. All of those things go out the window because both teams are different now on key personnel and playoff hockey is not regular season hockey.

Personally I think that for this match up, the Kings should have a about +1.5 to 1.75 goal differential per game, so that they ought to win every game by one or two goals. Unless Quick has a night at home where he doesn't sleep because of home issues (baby, wife, whatever) and we don't go "Edler" and make multiple insane mistakes, this should be true for four games. We ought to sweep; with St. Louis maybe stealing one 1-0 or 2-1 game where they get two lucky bounces/occurrences. (I have this idea that at home, Quick sometimes lets in bad goals early in the game and also faded last season, possibly due to his newborn.)

Anyways, forget regular season stats and forget who we played and our successes against them. Forget our wins against St. L, forget our losses to SJ, who St. L just beat handily. Totally irrelevant. I only want to focus on the on ice match up in series with these two current rosters. St. L plays a system that really annoys and messes up teams like San Jose and I'm guessing the other first round eliminees also would have trouble. We're not San Jose. For some reason San Jose matches up well against us as they can sometimes break down our defense with their forwards...and you can almost count Dan Boyle as a forward because he can become a good one when he wants to.

The Blues play a system; it's Hitch's same system he always uses. Kings play a similar system except we don't play it as well but augment it with puck possession both in the neutral zone and the other teams' defensive zone. Our fourth line is excellent for the latter. We have forwards the size and offensive caliber that St. Louis hasn't had since the very early 90s. We can play their game well but we can also punish them down low and in the neutral zone with guys like Lewis, Richards and Brown.

If San Jose is the paper, St. Louis is the scissors. But we are the rock in this scenario. St. Louis seems solid but scissors are actually delicate.

Their goaltending is sub par. Halak, a goalie I thoroughly respect and maybe fear, has a bad ankle. Elliott is a career backup, the ultimate "system goalie" this year. He's just the current Pascal Leclair, Marty Turco, Steve Mason...those guys (an injured Halak included) are no Jon Quick. Heck, they might not even be Jon Bernier.

Their defense is good but anchored by young guys. I respect Nashville's anchors more. Our guys are young too but where we have Scuderi (ring), Mitchell (maybe our best all around D) and Greene (finals) (lot of playoff experience there) they have...wait, who do they have? They have guys who play a good system but are actually just ok defensemen. They're not exactly Chicago. When we lay our forwards on them, our 6+ footers and our multiple 20-40 goal scorers on them, we'll see how good they really are.

Their forwards are basically a bunch of decent to good second liners. They have no Kopitar...I wonder how the somewhat undersized McDonald will react when 6'3" AK backchecks him. And if you want to talk about second liners, Mike Richards may be the best in the world. (A guy like Malkin is a first liner who plays second line like Semin plays, both behind elite/generational players, they are really first line players). They have a lot of good guys. So do we

Bottom six...I would have to think our fourth line gives us an advantage here...as long as the third line doesn't give it back, we clearly should be better here.

So I just don't see it, the hype. St. L has only had this system for less than a year. I think our big forwards dump and chase system will break down low their "keep it to the outside like the Kings" system and the big bodies on all four lines, from King/Nolan to Penner/Kopitar and maybe Carter if he plays like it, along with our guys who play big like Brown, Richards and Fraser, will simply break them down. By game four I think it will be obvious...even if St. L gets a game or two (it happens), once the series passes the halfway point, our guys may be running up and down the ice at will.

But we still have to play this series. Ok, I'm off to watching the game. Again I wonder if anyone else feels similarly as I do.

GKG

- R
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Old
04-28-2012, 06:59 PM
  #2
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Oh, in my rush I forgot one thing...

The one great danger for LA, same as for Quick, is if they are worn out already because of so many young core players on the team and the long layoff messes up rhythm.

- R

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04-28-2012, 07:13 PM
  #3
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Could you not jinx the team, thanks

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Old
04-28-2012, 08:21 PM
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whats with all these jinx threads.............from kings fans?

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04-28-2012, 09:12 PM
  #5
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Jinxes don't exist..

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Old
04-28-2012, 09:16 PM
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Rorschach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAkings20 View Post
whats with all these jinx threads.............from kings fans?
Double-jinx!! No prob, I reversed it.

I'm like Sutter. I believe in big bodies and finished checks...not in superstition. Although King's one hand on your butt devastating hit on APie was "dirty" lol.

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04-28-2012, 09:17 PM
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Superstitions are stupid.

Unless they are participated in fun. But if you really do believe in jinxes, then there is something wrong with you.

The team that wins this series will be the team that works the hardest, generally has more talent, and avoids catastrophic injuries.

Simple formula, proven time and again.

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Old
04-28-2012, 09:20 PM
  #8
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I don't believe in jinxes, but this is still premature. SJ won game one too. One game doesn't mean anything. It was close and the kings pp was dreadful. If they kings were as good as you think it shouldn't take an empty net goal to provide separation.

Without quick, the kings get blown out.

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04-28-2012, 09:30 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I don't believe in jinxes, but this is still premature. SJ won game one too. One game doesn't mean anything. It was close and the kings pp was dreadful. If they kings were as good as you think it shouldn't take an empty net goal to provide separation.

Without quick, the kings get blown out.
That's true, but we do have Quick.

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04-28-2012, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I don't believe in jinxes, but this is still premature. SJ won game one too. One game doesn't mean anything. It was close and the kings pp was dreadful. If they kings were as good as you think it shouldn't take an empty net goal to provide separation.

Without quick, the kings get blown out.
STL killed SJ on the power play. That won't happen in this series.

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04-28-2012, 09:44 PM
  #11
Ron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I don't believe in jinxes, but this is still premature. SJ won game one too. One game doesn't mean anything. It was close and the kings pp was dreadful. If they kings were as good as you think it shouldn't take an empty net goal to provide separation.

Without quick, the kings get blown out.
Not a news flash.

Weakest part of the team's play and the most vulnerable aspect, not only during the regular season, but obviously has bled over into the playoffs.

I don't like it either, but what can you do? You just knew they weren't going to score on a power play in the third period. Almost like watching the sun set in the west...pure certainty.

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04-29-2012, 01:19 AM
  #12
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They may not have scored but they ate up over a quarter of the period.

Kings are looking good but everyone calm down for another couple weeks.

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04-29-2012, 11:02 PM
  #13
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You lost me at "we should dominate this series."

This is the Blues, a team that nearly won the Presidents Trophy. Even if we do dominate the series, it doesn't mean we "should"

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04-29-2012, 11:09 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDGolfer View Post
STL killed SJ on the power play. That won't happen in this series.
Exactly.

Im sure they will score on the powerplay in this series, but they arent going to do to us what they did to SJ on the PP. Kings PK is one of the best in the league.

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Old
04-30-2012, 12:19 AM
  #15
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The Kings match up better against the Blues than any other team in the West, so they should play well against them.

That being said, if the Kings win this series, I'm very afraid of them playing against Phoenix. That's not a good matchup.

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04-30-2012, 01:40 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
You lost me at "we should dominate this series."

This is the Blues, a team that nearly won the Presidents Trophy. Even if we do dominate the series, it doesn't mean we "should"
If we score 2/3rds to 3/4ths the goals of this series between the two best defensive teams, I would call that "dominating." The Kings should do that since their talent level is another level above St. Louis. Both of our teams were playing terrible earlier this season and then there was a coaching change for both. But LA also introduced a lot more talent on all of the lines. Penner came back. King and Nolan came up. Voynov, who many fans here think is better, replaced Johnson. Brown and Kopitar upped their game, especially Brown...possibly due to his name going around in trade rumors. Richards got healthy again (although he seems hurt again). And obviously we acquired Carter to finish our lines.

The Blues got McDonald and Steen back. If we played another full season right now, I don't think it would surprise many in the NHL if we now had a better record than St. Louis. St. Louis needs a first line before they're our equal in talent. When you have a real first line, your previous first line now matches up with the opponents second line. If you do that and your opponent doesn't, you should dominate them.

And I'm not even going to talk about Quick vs. the career backup Elliott.

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04-30-2012, 09:09 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
If we score 2/3rds to 3/4ths the goals of this series between the two best defensive teams, I would call that "dominating." The Kings should do that since their talent level is another level above St. Louis. Both of our teams were playing terrible earlier this season and then there was a coaching change for both. But LA also introduced a lot more talent on all of the lines. Penner came back. King and Nolan came up. Voynov, who many fans here think is better, replaced Johnson. Brown and Kopitar upped their game, especially Brown...possibly due to his name going around in trade rumors. Richards got healthy again (although he seems hurt again). And obviously we acquired Carter to finish our lines.

The Blues got McDonald and Steen back. If we played another full season right now, I don't think it would surprise many in the NHL if we now had a better record than St. Louis. St. Louis needs a first line before they're our equal in talent. When you have a real first line, your previous first line now matches up with the opponents second line. If you do that and your opponent doesn't, you should dominate them.

And I'm not even going to talk about Quick vs. the career backup Elliott.

- R
.><.
You say we upped the skill level of our team, then list Penner, King and Nolan as the first three reasons why?

Give your head a shake. The Blues and Kings are pretty much equally able to win, play a very similar style and are designed to win hardfought games 2-1. The lone glaring edge we have is Quick, who looks better than Elliott or Halak IMO.

Should we win this series? Yes, I think so. But if you think we "should" dominate, you are drinking to much of your own kool-aid. This will be a hardfought series and will be very close in all likelihood.

Btw, the fact the Blues got Steen and MacDonald back is very significant. Steen was on pace for nearly 30 goals this year and MacDonald was on pace for about 70 points. They are, offensively, like our Justin Williams and Dustin Brown. I'd take those additions anyday over King, Noland and Penner. There's a reason MacDonald is the teams leading playoff point getter.

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04-30-2012, 09:38 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Oh, in my rush I forgot one thing...

The one great danger for LA, same as for Quick, is if they are worn out already because of so many young core players on the team and the long layoff messes up rhythm.

- R
Nah, don't think that will be a problem (not more so than for any other team).

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04-30-2012, 10:13 PM
  #19
Rorschach
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Nah, don't think that will be a problem (not more so than for any other team).
Yeah I thought the big Coldplay rest was a fluke but now we have Lakers/Clippers at home rests too. No longer a worry for me.

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05-01-2012, 01:46 AM
  #20
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Like Mike Keenan says: Domi - ****ing - nation.

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05-02-2012, 02:04 AM
  #21
Rorschach
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
You say we upped the skill level of our team, then list Penner, King and Nolan as the first three reasons why?

Give your head a shake. The Blues and Kings are pretty much equally able to win, play a very similar style and are designed to win hardfought games 2-1. The lone glaring edge we have is Quick, who looks better than Elliott or Halak IMO.

Should we win this series? Yes, I think so. But if you think we "should" dominate, you are drinking to much of your own kool-aid. This will be a hardfought series and will be very close in all likelihood.

Btw, the fact the Blues got Steen and MacDonald back is very significant. Steen was on pace for nearly 30 goals this year and MacDonald was on pace for about 70 points. They are, offensively, like our Justin Williams and Dustin Brown. I'd take those additions anyday over King, Noland and Penner. There's a reason MacDonald is the teams leading playoff point getter.
Not in any particular order! Although Penner...not sure why you're taking me to task on that one. Besides, I said "talent" not "skill." The other two guys are big guys who can skate and move. That's a desirable NHL talent...they (and not other guys) were called up for a reason.

And all those guys like Steen and Macdonald, those guys are 2nd or 3rd liners on this team. They are no Kopitar. The numbers mean nothing. And I like how you only isolate those three and none of the other guys and compare only those three to Steen and Macdonald. That is HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE logic.

- R

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05-02-2012, 03:37 AM
  #22
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Quick is good. But he is a product of the kings defense first mentality. The LA kings defense is the best player on the team.

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05-02-2012, 09:20 AM
  #23
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Quick is good. But he is a product of the kings defense first mentality. The LA kings defense is the best player on the team.
Wow. Just, wow.

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05-02-2012, 10:08 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Not in any particular order! Although Penner...not sure why you're taking me to task on that one. Besides, I said "talent" not "skill." The other two guys are big guys who can skate and move. That's a desirable NHL talent...they (and not other guys) were called up for a reason.

And all those guys like Steen and Macdonald, those guys are 2nd or 3rd liners on this team. They are no Kopitar. The numbers mean nothing. And I like how you only isolate those three and none of the other guys and compare only those three to Steen and Macdonald. That is HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE logic.

- R
No it's not.

I'm pointing out to you how you are deminishing the Blues guys while touting our up to far to high of levels.

And you just did it again here, labelling Steen and MacDonald as 2nd or third line guys on this team. Both are easily as good as Justin Williams, who is a first line guy around these parts. I like Justin, love him and his effort, but I'll take a healthy Andy MacDonald over him on the top line. Same with Steen.

And you are right, Nolan and King were called up for a reason. They're big bodies. That doesn't mean they are high skilled or talented players. I think they both have that potential, but they aren't there now. To think that those two guys are being counted on as skilled/talented/whatever type of guys this series is, as you put it, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE logic.

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05-03-2012, 11:44 PM
  #25
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Since the facts prove otherwise, I feel no more need to debate.

Kings have won by more than one goal every game and dominated play 3/4ths of the ice time as well. When King starts turning into a clutch goal scorer, it's time to give up. St. Louis got exposed...paper-thin defense, playoff inexperience, inability to deal with adversity (until game 3), can't handle LA's 6'+ forecheck even strength, can't handle said forecheck shorthanded, over-hyped goaltender exposed as a backup, and a bunch of good second line forwards. Rock beat scissors every time and left a twisted mess on the ice.

- R
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