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Old
04-30-2012, 10:59 AM
  #101
Acadmus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
G52 is getting atleast 4.5 million. If he doesn't get it here, somewhere else he will. Personally, since we have the cap space- I'd offer him a 2 year 12 million (6 million caphit) deal. He has a very short window to make his retirement policy, and he's more likely to take a paycut in the next deal if he's already made his millions.

Steeg, we can't offer him the same amount. RFA's are always entitled for a raise, and the qualifying offer (which he has no reason to accept) is a few 100k more than he's making now. IIRC it's like 10% more or something from his previous salary.
Not if they're making above league average, which I believe he is. Then you only need to offer them the same to qualify them. Unless the rule's changed, but I don't think it did.

And no way is Garrison a $4.5M or $6M defenseman. He scored a lot of goals, but it's the best season of his career and only one where he did anything like that. His point total overall wasn't in the same league, and his defensive abilities are solid but not elite. $6M is superstar money, he won't make that.

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04-30-2012, 11:12 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Acadmus View Post
Not if they're making above league average, which I believe he is. Then you only need to offer them the same to qualify them. Unless the rule's changed, but I don't think it did.
I'm not sure how it is, so you're probably right.

But, we can take him to salary arbitration if there's a huge difference between both sides.

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And no way is Garrison a $4.5M or $6M defenseman. He scored a lot of goals, but it's the best season of his career and only one where he did anything like that. His point total overall wasn't in the same league, and his defensive abilities are solid but not elite. $6M is superstar money, he won't make that.
It's not about him being or not being worth it. It's the market that definies his price, and if Suter re-signs with Nashville- G52 would be the number 1 UFA d-man left.

Wisniewski got 33 million (5.5 million caphit, frontloaded) last summer, though he had more points than G52. If Garrison makes it to UFA, there will be a bidding war for his services and someone is bound to overpay.

Getting him for a little over a million is a pipedream which isn't going to happen.

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04-30-2012, 11:14 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
I'm not sure how it is, so you're probably right.

But, we can take him to salary arbitration if there's a huge difference between both sides.

It's not about him being or not being worth it. It's the market that definies his price, and if Suter re-signs with Nashville- G52 would be the number 1 UFA d-man left.

Wisniewski got 33 million (5.5 million caphit, frontloaded) last summer, though he had more points than G52. If Garrison makes it to UFA, there will be a bidding war for his services and someone is bound to overpay.

Getting him for a little over a million is a pipedream which isn't going to happen.
I think most would be satisfied with high 3s low 4. Doubt that comes true though. I'm thinking mid to high 4s. I'd be surprised with anything less.

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04-30-2012, 11:32 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Acadmus View Post
Not if they're making above league average, which I believe he is. Then you only need to offer them the same to qualify them. Unless the rule's changed, but I don't think it did.

And no way is Garrison a $4.5M or $6M defenseman. He scored a lot of goals, but it's the best season of his career and only one where he did anything like that. His point total overall wasn't in the same league, and his defensive abilities are solid but not elite. $6M is superstar money, he won't make that.
additionally, versteeg is an RFA - he cannot refuse a qualifying offer (tho he can force arbitration i suppose). that's one of the two main aspects of that classification (the other being the possibility of an offer sheet, which i think we'd all agree is close to nil).

i also agree - garrison is being overrated here. 6M is crazy. i think the poster's point was offer it as a short-term workaround to fatten him up and keep him here long term, since we have the cap space now. but you can't do that.

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04-30-2012, 11:33 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Acadmus View Post
My thoughts on the matter.
In what alternate universe is Garrison going to take 1.2 million. The only way that happens is of he has a catastrophic injury training he's getting north of 3.5 million probably significantly north. He's better than Jovo and you expect a competitive guy to take less than a third of what a guy on his team makes that he outperformed by leaps and bounds. Not going to happen.

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04-30-2012, 11:41 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Booootthh View Post
I think most would be satisfied with high 3s low 4. Doubt that comes true though. I'm thinking mid to high 4s. I'd be surprised with anything less.
think you're right.

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04-30-2012, 12:16 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
additionally, versteeg is an RFA - he cannot refuse a qualifying offer (tho he can force arbitration i suppose).
Actually, there is no rule that would force him to accept the qualifying offer. Panthers will give him a qualifying to retain his rights, and it's up to Steeg if he wishes to accept it or sit out (December 1st is the limit for RFAs to sign IIRC) and play chicken with DT.

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i also agree - garrison is being overrated here. 6M is crazy. i think the poster's point was offer it as a short-term workaround to fatten him up and keep him here long term, since we have the cap space now. but you can't do that.
That was my point. In no way he is worth it, but if it keeps him long-term in the team it could be worth the risk. And we have the cap space after all.

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Originally Posted by PBPantherfan View Post
In what alternate universe is Garrison going to take 1.2 million. The only way that happens is of he has a catastrophic injury training he's getting north of 3.5 million probably significantly north. He's better than Jovo and you expect a competitive guy to take less than a third of what a guy on his team makes that he outperformed by leaps and bounds. Not going to happen.
This. Garrison knows that July 1st is his only chance to cash in during his career, he isn't getting any younger from 27. If DT doesn't offer him enough, he will happily take the highest offer from any other team.

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04-30-2012, 01:16 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
Jovo and Upshall are going nowhere. And you obviously have no idea where our cap situation is. To clear this for everyone:
I'm quite familiar with our cap situation as a matter of fact, so don't condescend to me when your reading comprehension isn't up to par considering I stated in the beginning of my post that these would be the Panther's projected 2013 lineup barring any significant transactions.

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04-30-2012, 01:37 PM
  #109
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im probably going to catch heat for it but i like alexander semin. He is a pure sniper and even when he doesnt show up he can pot 25-30. As a star of this team he can pot 40+. It would be so nice to have a guy we can pass to and know he can snipe one to the back of the net.

I cant speak for his locker room presence but that might be the one major concern.

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04-30-2012, 01:53 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Clint View Post
I'm quite familiar with our cap situation as a matter of fact, so don't condescend to me when your reading comprehension isn't up to par considering I stated in the beginning of my post that these would be the Panther's projected 2013 lineup barring any significant transactions.
Hey, I wasn't the one who said that Garrison is gone as a cap casualty unless we move Jovo/Upshall. There's plenty of space for him as I explained.

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04-30-2012, 03:49 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by PBPantherfan View Post
In what alternate universe is Garrison going to take 1.2 million. The only way that happens is of he has a catastrophic injury training he's getting north of 3.5 million probably significantly north. He's better than Jovo and you expect a competitive guy to take less than a third of what a guy on his team makes that he outperformed by leaps and bounds. Not going to happen.
The universe where you're aware Garrison's previous career high in goals was 5 just a season ago, his previous career high in points was 18 also in that season, he's got just parts of 3 seasons under his belt (not including a cup of coffee in 2008-09) and been a full-timer for just 2, and despite being a top-5 goalscoring dman this season only had 33 points, not good enough to be in the top 30 in the league and bringing into question anyone calling him a "#1 defenseman". Simply put, he had a good year, not a great one, and I'm being very conservative to say just $1.2M I know, but no way is he worth over $2M right now. Teams have to look at him and say "good year, but will he be able to repeat it, and do we want to throw large sums of money at him for that chance?"

Market determines price, sure - but if he puts himself in a category and nobody signs him at the rate that category goes for, he'll drop his price. And any team in the league offering him more than $2M is stupid. 190 NHL games, 23 goals, 59 points, and +9 in three seasons just doesn't warrant it.


Last edited by Acadmus: 04-30-2012 at 03:55 PM.
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Old
04-30-2012, 04:15 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
im probably going to catch heat for it but i like alexander semin. He is a pure sniper and even when he doesnt show up he can pot 25-30. As a star of this team he can pot 40+. It would be so nice to have a guy we can pass to and know he can snipe one to the back of the net.

I cant speak for his locker room presence but that might be the one major concern.
While I agree, I'd almost like to take Parise over Semin. I hate the Devils, but Parise has skill. Semin is great but very very streaky. I believe he's been demoted to 4th line right now in the post season, which is bad. We don't need to sign Semin, have him score 40 goals with us and then fall off in the post season when we need him. I don't know about his character and locker room presence is but I think it's risky.
With that being said,I do believe adding one of Parise/Semin to our lineup as well as Huberdeau will make this team sick. If Semin can step it up and become our superstar, then it'll be one hell of a team to beat. I just wonder what he'll ask for in free agency.

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04-30-2012, 09:22 PM
  #113
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[QUOTE=Boothinator;49049655]Why should we sign Ellis...Why not give Clemmensen another year here? Still, my guess is Markstrom will backstop behind Theodore.
If he advances even more with Rampage during the playoffs, I expect that to be happen more.

I suggested Ellis because I think Clemmensen would be more interested in getting a starting opportunity elsewhere and may ask for around 2 million a year or more. I don't think we need to rush Markstrom considering his injury history. He hasn't even played in a full AHL season.

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04-30-2012, 09:54 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
Hey, I wasn't the one who said that Garrison is gone as a cap casualty unless we move Jovo/Upshall. There's plenty of space for him as I explained.
Unfortunately cap space isnt the same as salary budget. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, this team will still be faced with a budget for what it can spend on salaries. So yes Clint is right that unless we moved one of Jovo/Upshall (which isnt going to happen), then there's a good chance that Garrison is gone. I guess he's not gone as a "cap" casualty but as a "budget" casualty, just semantics (generally if a player isnt re-signed nowadays, its just termed cap casualty).

And please dont tell me that because we made the playoffs that our salary budget is going up. I believe there was a study done at one point that required a team like ours to make it to the 2nd round just to see a profit. Four home playoff games isn't going to give us the money to compete with the rest of the league. Our budget will still most likely be around $55-57M per season so we wont be spending anywhere close to the $60M you had projected.

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04-30-2012, 10:54 PM
  #115
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Kulikov, Ellerby, 1st 2nd for Yakupov

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05-01-2012, 02:37 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Acadmus View Post
The universe where you're aware Garrison's previous career high in goals was 5 just a season ago, his previous career high in points was 18 also in that season, he's got just parts of 3 seasons under his belt (not including a cup of coffee in 2008-09) and been a full-timer for just 2, and despite being a top-5 goalscoring dman this season only had 33 points, not good enough to be in the top 30 in the league and bringing into question anyone calling him a "#1 defenseman". Simply put, he had a good year, not a great one, and I'm being very conservative to say just $1.2M I know, but no way is he worth over $2M right now. Teams have to look at him and say "good year, but will he be able to repeat it, and do we want to throw large sums of money at him for that chance?" Market determines price, sure - but if he puts himself in a category and nobody signs him at the rate that category goes for, he'll drop his price. And any team in the league offering him more than $2M is stupid. 190 NHL games, 23 goals, 59 points, and +9 in three seasons just doesn't warrant it.
He'll get more than $2 million for sure. I'd be surprised if he doesn't get more than $3 million actually.

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05-01-2012, 03:06 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
While I agree, I'd almost like to take Parise over Semin. I hate the Devils, but Parise has skill. Semin is great but very very streaky. I believe he's been demoted to 4th line right now in the post season, which is bad. We don't need to sign Semin, have him score 40 goals with us and then fall off in the post season when we need him. I don't know about his character and locker room presence is but I think it's risky.
With that being said,I do believe adding one of Parise/Semin to our lineup as well as Huberdeau will make this team sick. If Semin can step it up and become our superstar, then it'll be one hell of a team to beat. I just wonder what he'll ask for in free agency.
It's kinda hard for me to envision Parise leaving New Jersey. Nevertheless, I wonder if his team beating us in the playoffs would have a negative impact in a possible decision to come to Florida?

Quote:
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Unfortunately cap space isnt the same as salary budget. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, this team will still be faced with a budget for what it can spend on salaries. So yes Clint is right that unless we moved one of Jovo/Upshall (which isnt going to happen), then there's a good chance that Garrison is gone. I guess he's not gone as a "cap" casualty but as a "budget" casualty, just semantics (generally if a player isnt re-signed nowadays, its just termed cap casualty).

And please dont tell me that because we made the playoffs that our salary budget is going up. I believe there was a study done at one point that required a team like ours to make it to the 2nd round just to see a profit. Four home playoff games isn't going to give us the money to compete with the rest of the league. Our budget will still most likely be around $55-57M per season so we wont be spending anywhere close to the $60M you had projected.
Sux that we wouldn't get any profits from our fairly solid season (history-wise). It would be phenomenal to see the purse being opened up some more and show that we're going to the next level.

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If Tallon ends up pulling out an eyebrow raiser this offseason, you gotta give him props for 'going for it'.

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[Garrison] He'll get more than $2 million for sure. I'd be surprised if he doesn't get more than $3 million actually.
I mean it indeed is Garrison's first career year, but also I'm thinking the $3-4 million range seems certainly possible. Sux he didn't have another year on his existing so we could have another season sample.

-ghoste

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05-01-2012, 03:30 AM
  #118
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He'll get more than $2 million for sure. I'd be surprised if he doesn't get more than $3 million actually.
Wonder which one's more off: Acadmus @1,2 or Soupy @6,0? (insert here all the reservations by Acadmus and Soupy)

3,6 mill in the middle.

My bet would be that he gets over 3,6.

What do you think, over or under?

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05-01-2012, 07:16 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Acadmus View Post
The universe where you're aware Garrison's previous career high in goals was 5 just a season ago, his previous career high in points was 18 also in that season, he's got just parts of 3 seasons under his belt (not including a cup of coffee in 2008-09) and been a full-timer for just 2, and despite being a top-5 goalscoring dman this season only had 33 points, not good enough to be in the top 30 in the league and bringing into question anyone calling him a "#1 defenseman". Simply put, he had a good year, not a great one, and I'm being very conservative to say just $1.2M I know, but no way is he worth over $2M right now. Teams have to look at him and say "good year, but will he be able to repeat it, and do we want to throw large sums of money at him for that chance?"

Market determines price, sure - but if he puts himself in a category and nobody signs him at the rate that category goes for, he'll drop his price. And any team in the league offering him more than $2M is stupid. 190 NHL games, 23 goals, 59 points, and +9 in three seasons just doesn't warrant it.
It's supply and demand there aren't very many good Dmen available this year. He's probably the second best guy available after Suter so yeah the chances of him taking 1.2-2 million are slim to none. For god sakes look at what we paid for guys last summer. Do you really think that none of the other 29 teams will spend money on Garrison?

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05-01-2012, 07:40 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Our budget will still most likely be around $55-57M per season so we wont be spending anywhere close to the $60M you had projected.
Mine projected at $58,519,500 with:

Steeg @4
Kulikov @3
Wolski @1
Ellerby @1.5
Garrison @4.5
Barch @1
+ With the assumption that both Huber&Markie are with the big team and Santo is gone

That's not that bad is it? 1.5 million is pocket money to billionaires.

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Wonder which one's more off: Acadmus @1,2 or Soupy @6,0? (insert here all the reservations by Acadmus and Soupy)

3,6 mill in the middle.

My bet would be that he gets over 3,6.

What do you think, over or under?
My bet would actually be closer to 4,5. That 6 million was just an idea, and not a very good one to be honest.

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05-01-2012, 07:40 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
Wonder which one's more off: Acadmus @1,2 or Soupy @6,0? (insert here all the reservations by Acadmus and Soupy)

3,6 mill in the middle.

My bet would be that he gets over 3,6.

What do you think, over or under?
Theres a lot of factors involved. If someone (including us) tries to sign him to a 1 yr deal, then yes Garrison could get as much as $6M. I think this could be a good idea for the Panthers actually...it gives him a chance to prove this past yr wasnt a fluke and he still gets a payday (and potential for longer term deal) and if he doesnt prove it was a fluke, its not a long term committment from the team.

If Garrison and his agent want to stay in FL, he may be willing to give FL a discount and take $3.6M per yr on a 3 yr deal before he makes it to the market. But I'd say the over on that number if he does actually go on July 1st (he's going to get signed by someone on that day even if its not us).

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05-01-2012, 09:56 AM
  #122
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For god sakes look at what we paid for guys last summer. Do you really think that none of the other 29 teams will spend money on Garrison?
Not a good comparison. We had to overpay players because they wouldn't go to the cursed Panthers otherwise. The curse is over, the team came within a goal of making the second round, and the team's got a lot of promise for the future, so you won't see the Panthers having to overpay like they did last season, at least not as long as they don't go back into the mire of early tee times in April. Meanwhile, few teams had as negative an image as the Panthers, between years of missing the playoffs and years of horrific mismanagement by Cohen.

That said, yeah - my $1.2M was being realistic about what Garrison should be paid, not what he will be paid. I still don't think he'll get $4M unless some team is run by a complete moron. I don't care if there's no supply, he's not in that caliber and what GM wants to be saddled with that contract if he doesn't live up to it? Garrison's never been a #1 go-to guy, and certainly wasn't this year - that was Campbell. But we'll see what happens - still 2 months to go until July 1.

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05-01-2012, 10:59 AM
  #123
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I'm curious as to how Florida fans would view a possible Staal for Gudbranson swap. Just looking at your team on paper it looks like you could use some center depth, and we need a big physical defenseman.

If a 1-for-1 isn't possible, what would make a trade like that happen?

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05-01-2012, 11:03 AM
  #124
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I'm curious as to how Florida fans would view a possible Staal for Gudbranson swap. Just looking at your team on paper it looks like you could use some center depth, and we need a big physical defenseman.

If a 1-for-1 isn't possible, what would make a trade like that happen?
Nothing. Guds isn't leaving for an upcoming UFA.

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05-01-2012, 11:05 AM
  #125
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Some good quotes from Dale Tallon (Press conference) -
Tallon: We sent a message to everyone in hockey world that this is a place to be. Message has been sent that we mean business.

Tallon: This is one of the best group of guys I've ever been involved with. Character. Good guys. Came to work hard

Tallon:(About free agency) As active as we can be. We've got young talent coming up. This is when it gets exciting.

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