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Old
04-30-2012, 03:11 AM
  #101
Negatively Positive
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It's probably like their obsession with German players. Instead of scouting and drafting from good Euro hockey countries like Russia, Sweden,Finland, and Czech Republic, let's focus on the country that fights to not let relegated. This is hockey, not soccer. Why the hell are you scouting and drafting Germans?

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04-30-2012, 06:50 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Shark Fin Soup View Post
It's probably like their obsession with German players. Instead of scouting and drafting from good Euro hockey countries like Russia, Sweden,Finland, and Czech Republic, let's focus on the country that fights to not let relegated. This is hockey, not soccer. Why the hell are you scouting and drafting Germans?
This is what bothers me. Its like they are either too cheap or too incompetent to explore other areas. They're basically stuck in Northeastern US and Germany, I mean, what has that produced for you so far? Isnt time to stop going for character and safe picks when it has pretty much failed you for years now? Its time to start hitting for homeruns and stop trying to just make contact.

Even if something doesnt work, keep doing it until it works. That should be the motto of this organization. Everyone is stubborn in this org., from the GM to the coaching staff to the janitor.

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04-30-2012, 11:30 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Shark Fin Soup View Post
It's probably like their obsession with German players. Instead of scouting and drafting from good Euro hockey countries like Russia, Sweden,Finland, and Czech Republic, let's focus on the country that fights to not let relegated. This is hockey, not soccer. Why the hell are you scouting and drafting Germans?
The principle is good, the execution is not. Scouts are competing with 29 other teams to find the best players. It's like fishing in a well-stocked but overfished pond. Some teams have found success by going to the hinterlands where no one else is looking. Things like Swiss goalies for a time. Danish skaters. Everybody and their brother has poured over the OHL and knows every single skater in that league; the chance of finding a surprise there late is almost non-existent. What is more ironic is that some of the very best are coming from nowhere rather than the hotbeds of hockey. New Jersey, Nova Scotia, a little religious school in Minnesota.

The issue of competing with 29 also means that to be on top the team has to be special and not follow the herd or count on luck. They can't do what everyone else is doing to be #1. When general aphorisms around drafting are trotted out by the org as a reason for this or that, it tells me that they aren't in it to win. They are just trying to stay even with the pack.

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04-30-2012, 11:46 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
The principle is good, the execution is not. Scouts are competing with 29 other teams to find the best players. It's like fishing in a well-stocked but overfished pond. Some teams have found success by going to the hinterlands where no one else is looking. Things like Swiss goalies for a time. Danish skaters. Everybody and their brother has poured over the OHL and knows every single skater in that league; the chance of finding a surprise there late is almost non-existent. What is more ironic is that some of the very best are coming from nowhere rather than the hotbeds of hockey. New Jersey, Nova Scotia, a little religious school in Minnesota.

The issue of competing with 29 also means that to be on top the team has to be special and not follow the herd or count on luck. They can't do what everyone else is doing to be #1. When general aphorisms around drafting are trotted out by the org as a reason for this or that, it tells me that they aren't in it to win. They are just trying to stay even with the pack.
how much emphasis is put on finding a player that can be molded to fit the sharks play? instead of finding a pre-built star, you find the late pick that you can work with to make great?

does our development consist of ECHL/AHL/NHL or do we have guys on staff specifically for the younger kids to get the ready etc?

it seems that we rely on the college development a lot, since we rarely get high picks anymore and we probably send out scouts to monitor late round picks to see whos worth what in the organizations eyes...but i could be wrong.

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04-30-2012, 12:09 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
how much emphasis is put on finding a player that can be molded to fit the sharks play? instead of finding a pre-built star, you find the late pick that you can work with to make great?

does our development consist of ECHL/AHL/NHL or do we have guys on staff specifically for the younger kids to get the ready etc?

it seems that we rely on the college development a lot, since we rarely get high picks anymore and we probably send out scouts to monitor late round picks to see whos worth what in the organizations eyes...but i could be wrong.
They had a breakdown of Sharks scouting where I can't find the link. They have two guys looking at colleges for the undrafted. I half jokingly said they got Brodie instead of Matt last year. Very telling. Matt was almost in Calder contention. They also grabbed Connolly from Matt's neck of the woods so it would be reasonable to assume that they saw Matt. Topping it off, Connolly and Matt are similar types, undersized playmakers.

They rely on college a lot because they have been trading away picks. Picks are needed to stock both AHL and NHL. If a team shortchanges themselves, they have to go undrafted or UFA to compensate just to fill their AHL roster.

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Old
04-30-2012, 02:20 PM
  #106
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Wisconsin
Boston College
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
North Dakota

I strongly recommend staying within these schools.*

Here's a sortable list of every former college hockey player in the NHL this season (and their school): http://m.collegehockeyinc.com/node/293

As you can see with the list, it's pretty obvious which schools we should stay with. In terms of the number of NHL players produced and the quality of those players, it's not even close. Sure, if you want the next Harry Zolnierchuk or Aaron Volpatti - go ahead and draft/sign that kid from Brown. (We apparently have a kid from Brown in the AHL. LOL)

There's always exceptions and not all the best talent ends up at those 6 schools. I won't complain if you pick someone from another big school (Boston University,*Minnesota-Duluth,*Colorado College to name a few), but you better be sure about him if you stray from the elite group.

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Old
04-30-2012, 02:31 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
Wisconsin
Boston College
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
North Dakota

I strongly recommend staying within these schools.*

Here's a sortable list of every former college hockey player in the NHL this season (and their school): http://m.collegehockeyinc.com/node/293

As you can see with the list, it's pretty obvious which schools we should stay with. In terms of the number of NHL players produced and the quality of those players, it's not even close. Sure, if you want the next Harry Zolnierchuk or Aaron Volpatti - go ahead and draft/sign that kid from Brown. (We apparently have a kid from Brown in the AHL. LOL)

There's always exceptions and not all the best talent ends up at those 6 schools. I won't complain if you pick someone from another big school (Boston University,*Minnesota-Duluth,*Colorado College to name a few), but you better be sure about him if you stray from the elite group.
Sort it by forwards and dmen and it gets more interesting as to which schools do which.

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Old
04-30-2012, 03:05 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
They had a breakdown of Sharks scouting where I can't find the link. They have two guys looking at colleges for the undrafted. I half jokingly said they got Brodie instead of Matt last year. Very telling. Matt was almost in Calder contention. They also grabbed Connolly from Matt's neck of the woods so it would be reasonable to assume that they saw Matt. Topping it off, Connolly and Matt are similar types, undersized playmakers.

They rely on college a lot because they have been trading away picks. Picks are needed to stock both AHL and NHL. If a team shortchanges themselves, they have to go undrafted or UFA to compensate just to fill their AHL roster.
San Jose has more than two guys scouting colleges...

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Old
04-30-2012, 03:12 PM
  #109
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Scouts Gilles Cote, Pat Funk, Jack Gardiner, Dirk Graham, Rob Grillo,
Brian Gross, Shinn Larsson, Bryan Marchment, Karel Masopust, Jason Rowe

this is from the official site. doesnt break down their duties though.

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Old
04-30-2012, 06:24 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 210 View Post
San Jose has more than two guys scouting colleges...
At most 3 and really only 2 when you think of full time/part time. Burke and Funk are not full time college.
Quote:
Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
Scouts Gilles Cote, Pat Funk, Jack Gardiner, Dirk Graham, Rob Grillo,
Brian Gross, Shinn Larsson, Bryan Marchment, Karel Masopust, Jason Rowe

this is from the official site. doesnt break down their duties though.
Larsson and Masopust are Europe. Cote is the Q (no college). Marchment is OHL only. Funk is the midwest, USHL and college, only midwest guy. They don't list Tim Burke, but he is northeast which includes NCAA. Rowe might be the other and in the east. One guy for WHL exclusive. One other guy in OHL exclusive.

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04-30-2012, 06:41 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
At most 3 and really only 2 when you think of full time/part time. Burke and Funk are not full time college.
Not every scout for San Jose is listed on their website.

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Old
04-30-2012, 09:48 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by 210 View Post
Not every scout for San Jose is listed on their website.
Gotcha. Just going by the guys listed and I am sure those are the full timers only. The only other clue is scouting budget which is not that high for SJ for supporting the secondary guys.

I don't have the link on the article with the details, but they are pretty brutally light in the WHL and midwest (two guys). It shows in who they draft. They should probably have 2 full timers for each. One midwest guy should pretty much sit on Shattuck-St. Mary's as part of his duty.

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Old
04-30-2012, 10:23 PM
  #113
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Yeah, one of the stats is out of the 300 college players in the NHL, 49 were born in Minnesota. Stattuck St. Mary's produces a ton of great players.

If there's a kid in this draft born in MN, that went to Shattuck, committed to one of these top schools I'd draft him w/o even having to scout him. Bonus points if he has NHL bloodlines. (Zach Parise is an example of this formula).

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Old
05-01-2012, 12:38 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
Yeah, one of the stats is out of the 300 college players in the NHL, 49 were born in Minnesota. Stattuck St. Mary's produces a ton of great players.

If there's a kid in this draft born in MN, that went to Shattuck, committed to one of these top schools I'd draft him w/o even having to scout him. Bonus points if he has NHL bloodlines. (Zach Parise is an example of this formula).
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=94246

Zach Stepan is from Minnesota, went to Shattuck... and has commited to Ohio State University for 13-14. Well, that's two out of three (or three out of four).

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Old
05-01-2012, 12:39 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolorous Edd View Post
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=94246

Zach Stepan is from Minnesota, went to Shattuck... and has commited to Ohio State University for 13-14. Well, that's two out of three (or three out of four).
DRAFT HIM.

MSB will be happy. He's a good American kid.

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Old
05-01-2012, 01:04 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolorous Edd View Post
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=94246

Zach Stepan is from Minnesota, went to Shattuck... and has commited to Ohio State University for 13-14. Well, that's two out of three (or three out of four).
He'd be a slam dunk if Wisconsin recruited him. I'm still drooling though. Although, he apparently considered the elite schools I listed:

Quote:
Chuck Schwartz: In an interview over the summer you mentioned you had interest in Denver, Boston College, North Dakota, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. Have you narrowed your list at all and who is on it at this point?

Zach Stepan: That was just a couple I would be interested in. I am pretty much open for anything at this point because there are so many great schools out there that I do not want to keep my mind stuck on just a couple unless I really know deep down those are truly possible places I would like to attend. (Cont.)
We must draft this kid.

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05-01-2012, 01:13 AM
  #117
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Hey, I posted a lot about Nieto last season and we drafted him... Maybe if you just name-drop "Zach Stepan" in all of your posts the SJ management party that lurks on HF will get the subliminal message.

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05-01-2012, 01:24 AM
  #118
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91. Hunter Fejes LW Faribault (Minn.) Shattuck-St. Mary’s -> Colorado College (2013)

106. John Draeger D Faribault (Minn.) Shattuck-St. Mary’s -> Michigan State

Draeger born in MN. Fejes from*Anchorage, Alaska. Watch out for these guys too, especially Draeger. He's got 3/4! The number is the central scouting rank)

Edit: Last year, Tanner Sorenson went undrafted (MN born, Shattuck alum - and captain, now at Michigan St. . He has the bloodlines too). A little undersized, but here's a quote from an HF article.
Quote:
Five of the Spartans’ six newcomers this season are forwards and one to keep an eye on is Tanner Sorenson. The Anchorage, AK native is a small (5’8, 165lbs), slick centerman with great hands. Although Sorenson is a center, he can also play wing. Sorenson, a Feb. 1993-born player, was passed over this summer, but will be eligible again for the 2012 NHL Draft. Read more here
Highly decorated for an undrafted player. Here's his bio:
http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-..._tanner00.html


Last edited by magic school bus: 05-01-2012 at 01:41 AM.
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Old
05-01-2012, 04:48 AM
  #119
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So, anyway, going back to our first rounder. Do you guys agree that we need to draft Sebastian Colberg? Amazing speed, and great hands. He would be great with Matt Nieto in the future.

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05-01-2012, 09:06 AM
  #120
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Teuvo Teravainen, Filip Forsberg, Radek Faksa, Sebastian Collberg should all be at the top of the SJ draft board, if any of the them fall out of the top 10 (I've already said this) I think Wilson should do whatever he has to do to move down in the draft and get them.

I also think they need to pick up another forward with their 2nd round pick and Gemel Smith, Phil DiGiuseppe and Stefan Matteau would all be really good picks in the late 2nd round (should they still be available).

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Old
05-01-2012, 11:08 AM
  #121
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Draft Zach Stepan

Draft Zach Stepan Draft Zach Stepan Draft Zach Stepan Draft Zach Stepan Draft Zach Stepan Draft Zach Stepan Draft Zach Stepan Draft Zach Stepan Draft Zach Stepan Draft Zach Stepan Draft Zach Stepan Draft Zach Stepan Draft Zach Stepan Draft Zach Stepan Draft Zach Stepan

My part is done

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05-01-2012, 01:19 PM
  #122
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Meh I want to trade up to #1 and get Yakupov. Edmonton will be shopping the pick and we have several things they need.

If we can't get that, I would love for DW to keep our current first and trade for another one inside the top 10. Then move up with our current first. Get one of the top forwards as well as Reilly or Ceci. I don't know a ton about Colberg but from what I've read I don't know what all the excitement is.

Also will people stop saying "we need a safe pick". This logic is what has cursed us in the past. It's the first round, we need guys who are potential superstars!

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Old
05-01-2012, 01:23 PM
  #123
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Yakupov would take Couture + Vlasic. No dice.

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Old
05-01-2012, 01:37 PM
  #124
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Sorry for appearing clueless, but are the Sharks drafting at #15? Thanks.

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05-01-2012, 01:39 PM
  #125
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#16, I believe.

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