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Old
04-29-2012, 02:59 PM
  #1
Aplayaz2000
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Within the next two years...

...there will be two paths which will happen with Burke.


A) Another two years of repetitiveness and thus missing the post season. Honestly I can't see how things can get brighter after that.

B) Burke's talk will finally pay off, the prospect pool starts paying off, and many of the over paid players start stepping it up.
The Leafs make the post season since ever and the rest is history.


Well that's my thoughts.

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Old
04-29-2012, 03:09 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aplayaz2000 View Post
...there will be two paths which will happen with Burke.


A) Another two years of repetitiveness and thus missing the post season. Honestly I can't see how things can get brighter after that.

B) Burke's talk will finally pay off, the prospect pool starts paying off, and many of the over paid players start stepping it up. The Leafs make the post season since ever and the rest is history.


Well that's my thoughts.
Well, in 2013 Macarthur could be traded for a 1st at deadline and in off-season LAC is gone and K is at 3.5 with 4.5 cap so some team (NYI?) would take him. Therefore, in 2014, we get a glut of players to move up from Marlies.

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Old
04-29-2012, 03:16 PM
  #3
Suntouchable13
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Burke will be fired in January if the Leafs are not in a playoff spot or anywhere near it. That's what I think.

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Old
04-29-2012, 03:29 PM
  #4
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this is new and exciting

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Old
04-29-2012, 03:31 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aplayaz2000 View Post
...there will be two paths which will happen with Burke.


A) Another two years of repetitiveness and thus missing the post season. Honestly I can't see how things can get brighter after that.

B) Burke's talk will finally pay off, the prospect pool starts paying off, and many of the over paid players start stepping it up.
The Leafs make the post season since ever and the rest is history.


Well that's my thoughts.
Don't stop there. Please continue with your wisdom and knowledge.

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Old
04-29-2012, 04:51 PM
  #6
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one of two things are going to happen:


A) The Leafs will be good.

B) The Leafs will be bad.


Sorry I just felt the need to paraphrase

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Old
04-29-2012, 05:01 PM
  #7
HellasLEAF
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Burke needed to really strip down and rebuild from the moment he took the reigns. We would be in a much better position going forward.

He made the Kessel deal and went from rebuild to re-tool on the fly. He will live or die by that now. He has two years to make the playoffs AND go deep or else he should be fired and someone else should be brought in with real patience.

We might have just wasted another 5 years.

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Old
04-29-2012, 05:48 PM
  #8
robdicks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
Burke needed to really strip down and rebuild from the moment he took the reigns. We would be in a much better position going forward.

He made the Kessel deal and went from rebuild to re-tool on the fly. He will live or die by that now. He has two years to make the playoffs AND go deep or else he should be fired and someone else should be brought in with real patience.

We might have just wasted another 5 years.
I have a hard time believing THAT.

Burke might not be the right guy for the job, but I hardly think that if a new GM came in here that he would just blow it up and start over again. I know last season was terrible, but if you look at our team at a player by player basis there really are a lot of positives on paper.

Lupul (on pace for 31 goals 83 pts this season before injury)
Bozak (Played at 53 pt pace this year... not a top-line center, but not bad for a college FA)
Kessel (37 goal PPG pace this year in his breakout season)
Kulemin (30 goals in 2010-11 and could easily rebound for a 20+ goal season next year)
Grabovski (Beast and a warrior 20+ goals in 3 of last 4 seasons. Good 2nd line center)
MacArthur (probably isn't a 60 pt player, but 45-55 is fair and 20 goals in last two)

Bottom six is weak... need to build on that, but core is in tact up front.

Phaneuf (12 goal, 44 pt season coming into defensive prime)
Gunnarson (serviceable, solid defensive player)
Schenn (elite shut-down defense potential. Consistently leads in hits and blocks for d-men)
Gardiner (7 goal 30 pt rookie season incredibly encouraging)
Franson (even with slow start, played at 7 goal pace)
Liles ( Played at 9 goal 35 pt pace before injury)

Reimer (Serviceable goalie before head/neck injury, will hopefully back-up a veteran next year)

You can't say that this has been a waste of 5 years. The core is in place. There are many good-great pieces in this line-up and a lot of these players were brought in by Burke himself. I'm not satisfied with the results, but you can't just ignore the good players on this team.

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Old
04-29-2012, 05:57 PM
  #9
HellasLEAF
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You make good points. Not a complete waste, I mean, how could 5 years ever yield a complete waste.

But, the thing was that the next GM to come in after JFJ who traded prospects and 1st rounders like they were candy, was going to finally come in and take the true rebuilding approach.

Instead Burke came in impatient as the last GM and the one before that and the one before that and did what ever Leaf GM does. Trade future for present in order to make playoff pushes.

It's looking like the wrong coach and the wrong GM at the wrong time. That's what I mean by 5 years (or a GM's term here) wasted, should we decide to bring in someone else after Burke fails here.

What pisses me off even more is that, and I quote from Burke himself, I'll never forget, "the over whelming sentiment from Leaf fans is to just to it right. take the time, rebuild, we will wait just do it right." He did not do that and we are slowly seeing the results.

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Old
04-29-2012, 06:07 PM
  #10
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Best case scenario for the state of the franchize.

2012/2013 season
- Play our youth for development at the NHL level.
- Trade LACK and a few others at the deadline for picks and B+ prospects with A+ upside.
- Finish 26-30 and get a lottery pick for a very star studded draft.
- the new CBA will resolve many of the "circumvention contract" issues and that plays right into the hands of Burke and the way he does business.
- 35+ Million in cap space Burke spends HUGE on top talent in the best UFA pool in the history of the NHL.

2013/2014 season
- Win.

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Old
04-29-2012, 06:12 PM
  #11
robdicks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
You make good points. Not a complete waste, I mean, how could 5 years ever yield a complete waste.

But, the thing was that the next GM to come in after JFJ who traded prospects and 1st rounders like they were candy, was going to finally come in and take the true rebuilding approach.

Instead Burke came in impatient as the last GM and the one before that and the one before that and did what ever Leaf GM does. Trade future for present in order to make playoff pushes.

It's looking like the wrong coach and the wrong GM at the wrong time. That's what I mean by 5 years (or a GM's term here) wasted, should we decide to bring in someone else after Burke fails here.

What pisses me off even more is that, and I quote from Burke himself, I'll never forget, "the over whelming sentiment from Leaf fans is to just to it right. take the time, rebuild, we will wait just do it right." He did not do that and we are slowly seeing the results.
true. I get your frustration. We are entering year 5 of the retool that was supposed to substitute a 5 year rebuild plan. I really think Burke is a smart man though, and a good hockey guy. On a move by move basis you could certainly criticize some moves, but it's not like we're throwing away top prospects for 35 year old veterans like we were in the mid 00s.

I really can't explain what happened this year. I really can't. I thought we were going to be comfortably in a 6th-8th spot this year and up until the trade deadline, we were. The team sucked from then on out and I don't really get it, but the first 60ish games can't be ignored. I'll agree that this team needs to put up or shut-up next year for Burke to keep his job. There are no excuses this year and this team should be a playoff team. Burke has his coach, he has his core, and this is the team he built. However, this isn't a team that is typical of a bottom 5 finish. There are many positives about this team.

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Old
04-29-2012, 06:24 PM
  #12
BayStBullies
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One day I hope people will finally understand the concept of what a title is for.

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Old
04-29-2012, 06:30 PM
  #13
dubey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
Burke will be fired in January if the Leafs are not in a playoff spot or anywhere near it. That's what I think.
Nope

Not unless they are in last place with no hope of gaining any ground. If he's fired it will be at the end of the season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStBullies View Post
One day I hope people will finally understand the concept of what a title is for.
lol

I actually clicked this thread and didn't even read the OP until I read your post

And would you believe "Within the next two years there will be two paths which will happen with Burke." actually does fit within the title character limit? Although if that was the actual title I probably wouldn't have clicked.

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Old
04-29-2012, 07:19 PM
  #14
Durkin67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
You make good points. Not a complete waste, I mean, how could 5 years ever yield a complete waste.

But, the thing was that the next GM to come in after JFJ who traded prospects and 1st rounders like they were candy, was going to finally come in and take the true rebuilding approach.

Instead Burke came in impatient as the last GM and the one before that and the one before that and did what ever Leaf GM does. Trade future for present in order to make playoff pushes.

It's looking like the wrong coach and the wrong GM at the wrong time. That's what I mean by 5 years (or a GM's term here) wasted, should we decide to bring in someone else after Burke fails here.

What pisses me off even more is that, and I quote from Burke himself, I'll never forget, "the over whelming sentiment from Leaf fans is to just to it right. take the time, rebuild, we will wait just do it right." He did not do that and we are slowly seeing the results.

Burke didn't trade the future for a playoff push. He traded unknown commodities for a 21 year old game ready NHL sniper. There is no comparison to be made here between what Burke did and what his predecessors attempted, which was to mortgage the future for vets, because Quinn believed they were on the verge of being legit contenders.

Burke also turned over an incompetent and unmotivated roster that had conditioned itself to lose. Of course there have been glitches. And they have admittedly set the team back. But he has more than compensated for those glitches, and the results are forthcoming.

As the game returns to a more grinding, punishing brand of 'North American' style hockey, the emergence of players like Ross, Biggs and Broll should prove to be a tremendous benefit to the Leafs. Burke showed some real foresight here. There is a good mix of skill and sandpaper coming up through the ranks.


There was far more wrong with this club than there was right when Burke took over. And today, despite the setbacks, there has been far more right done than wrong since his arrival. The results are taking longer, but there are many positives to look forward to.

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Old
04-29-2012, 07:29 PM
  #15
Prophet Kadri
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There is only one direction this team is heading next season and that is down.

There is absolutely no ****ing way we are making the playoffs next season. There is too much garbage on this team that will stop Burke from being able to make any meaningful deals. LACK is here to stay until the end of their contracts, those are four positions that we will not be able to improve. Not to mention the caphits they posses also affect any potential deals. There is also room for SLACK if Schenn continues to struggle defensively while providing no offense.

Kessel and Lupul had career years, it is unlikely they will repeat improve when having such unexpected great season's.

Our defense core is immobile, except for Gardiner and Liles we have below average skaters on the blue line.

We have few forwards that are actually good in their own end. Grabo, Kulemin, Bozak, Brown are our only forwards that can defend average or better.

We are entering onto yet another season where our goalies are a question mark, and options for improvement look like they will either cost a lot of Cap or assets.

We still do not have a first line center, and in order to obtain one Burke would have to trade Gardiner and/or the 5th overall pick.

A combination of these are why I believe that we will be obtaining a top 5 pick next season.

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Old
04-29-2012, 07:52 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdicks View Post
one of two things are going to happen:


A) The Leafs will be good.

B) The Leafs will be bad.


Sorry I just felt the need to paraphrase
i admire your wisdom!

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Old
04-29-2012, 07:52 PM
  #17
Durkin67
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Originally Posted by Darkness View Post
There is only one direction this team is heading next season and that is down.

There is absolutely no ****ing way we are making the playoffs next season. There is too much garbage on this team that will stop Burke from being able to make any meaningful deals. LACK is here to stay until the end of their contracts, those are four positions that we will not be able to improve. Not to mention the caphits they posses also affect any potential deals. There is also room for SLACK if Schenn continues to struggle defensively while providing no offense.

Kessel and Lupul had career years, it is unlikely they will repeat improve when having such unexpected great season's.

Our defense core is immobile, except for Gardiner and Liles we have below average skaters on the blue line.

We have few forwards that are actually good in their own end. Grabo, Kulemin, Bozak, Brown are our only forwards that can defend average or better.

We are entering onto yet another season where our goalies are a question mark, and options for improvement look like they will either cost a lot of Cap or assets.

We still do not have a first line center, and in order to obtain one Burke would have to trade Gardiner and/or the 5th overall pick.

A combination of these are why I believe that we will be obtaining a top 5 pick next season.
Jumping to a few conclusions here...

Burke knows he needs to be proactive here and make some impact moves. He has assets to do it with including Franson, a high pick, Kadri, Schenn, etc.

I wouldn't rule out a deal that sends Schenn to PHI for a top 6 piece. My guess would be JVR.

Holzer's emergence, Gunner's strong play, and Liles' presence (he'll be 100% at camp) gives Burke options in terms of quality D, and for teams who miss out on Suter, one of Schenn or Franson could be a decent consolation...

The sky isn't falling, and Burke and CO. are hardly asleep at the wheel. Remember how quiet he was before the Phaneuf deal?

We'll see at least one new top 6 forward and a goalie in blue and white.

My guess is that Schenn, Franson and Lupul get moved. Kadri is a strong possibility as well.

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Old
04-29-2012, 07:54 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkness View Post
There is only one direction this team is heading next season and that is down.

There is absolutely no ****ing way we are making the playoffs next season. There is too much garbage on this team that will stop Burke from being able to make any meaningful deals. LACK is here to stay until the end of their contracts, those are four positions that we will not be able to improve. Not to mention the caphits they posses also affect any potential deals. There is also room for SLACK if Schenn continues to struggle defensively while providing no offense.

Kessel and Lupul had career years, it is unlikely they will repeat improve when having such unexpected great season's.

Our defense core is immobile, except for Gardiner and Liles we have below average skaters on the blue line.

We have few forwards that are actually good in their own end. Grabo, Kulemin, Bozak, Brown are our only forwards that can defend average or better.

We are entering onto yet another season where our goalies are a question mark, and options for improvement look like they will either cost a lot of Cap or assets.

We still do not have a first line center, and in order to obtain one Burke would have to trade Gardiner and/or the 5th overall pick.

A combination of these are why I believe that we will be obtaining a top 5 pick next season.
Yeah, but, on the bright side....ok, I got nuthin. All Burke has to do is improve the offense, defense, and goaltending, upgrade the bottom six, add more size and toughness, and add some veteran leadership--all with minimal cap flexibility and a lack of high end prospects. If he can do all that, we're golden.

It's funny, as much as people b*tch about the Kessel trade (and understandably so), Burke's bigger blunder may end being investing so much faith in Phaneuf.

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Old
04-29-2012, 09:55 PM
  #19
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Best case scenario for 2012-2013 is we go 22-50-10 and lock #1 pick in the draft which we then use to pick a franchise center who serves as the backbone of our team for 10+ years

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Old
04-29-2012, 11:07 PM
  #20
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I'm really excited about next season. I really think this team WILL make the playoffs, maybe not a real contender but it will be fun to watch. And the year after that become a real threat. Were not too far away. If you look at what Burke inherited (pile of trash) and see what he's turned it into, you'll be amazed. I think its safe to expect a big off season change and i'm pretty confident in Burke/Nonis' GM skills, seeing what they did with Vancouver/Anaheim .

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Old
04-29-2012, 11:07 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by BayStBullies View Post
One day I hope people will finally understand the concept of what a title is for.
yes. this.

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Old
04-30-2012, 01:23 AM
  #22
Nazem Gretzky
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Considering our starting goaltender will be Luongo, I'd say we make the POs.

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04-30-2012, 10:38 AM
  #23
Giuseppe Sallo
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Yup. Gotta trade for assets. We're not built for anything right now. Burkie, in his 4 year tenure, has really dropped the ball. It's his signings that worry me, this summer is boom or bust. I think he goes all out.

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Old
04-30-2012, 03:21 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aplayaz2000 View Post
...there will be two paths which will happen with Burke.


A) Another two years of repetitiveness and thus missing the post season. Honestly I can't see how things can get brighter after that.
B) Burke's talk will finally pay off, the prospect pool starts paying off, and many of the over paid players start stepping it up.
The Leafs make the post season since ever and the rest is history.


Well that's my thoughts.
In answer to A) Things can only get brighter. Can it possibly get worse?

But I am hoping for B). We will all have a pretty good idea by next Xmas! Wait, didn't someone say that last year? This deja vu thing really sucks.

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Old
04-30-2012, 04:01 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkness View Post
There is only one direction this team is heading next season and that is down.


Kessel and Lupul had career years, it is unlikely they will repeat improve when having such unexpected great season's.
Yep and the year before Grabovski, Kuleminn and McArthur had career years, keeping us out of last. Unless another couple of our guys can have career years next year we'll be dead last.

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