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ECSF Game 2: Caps at Rangers 730 PM at MSG

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05-01-2012, 09:36 AM
  #926
txpd
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
I didn't know tx had inside access to ovi's head.
please, what about what i said is not logical and/or not supported by what ovechkin has already said?

either he gets with the program and becomes a better two way player because he wants to stay, is content with limited playing or asks to get out. seems pretty clear cut to me.

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05-01-2012, 09:37 AM
  #927
Stewie G
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no, i agree. i was just pointing out what rh would have pointed out about the 27 minutes. ov vaporized that player in 5 playoff games last season.
Gotcha. I think there is a near unanimous position that when the Rangers are able to play their most heavily relied upon defensmen for 6 minutes less than his average, that the Rangers win that coaching decision.

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05-01-2012, 09:38 AM
  #928
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Dale is being unpredictable. People can't wrap their brains around it, and some think we are winning despite him.

Yet there appears to be a completely different mindset of the team now. The players are keeping calm, presumed an extension of Dale.

When is the last time anyone saw Ovi gassed or loafing on defense? We are a different team now.

Dale is making an example out of Halpern, Knuble, Ovi, Ward; deliberately or not, and I think the other players have taken notice. And are bringing it.

Effort can triumph over skill. I think we see it every year in the playoffs.

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05-01-2012, 09:39 AM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
I haven't seen anyone's head explode when a 3rd liner scores a goal. I do see people questioning if that is something that is sustainable when the apparent goal of the coach is to win one goal games.

Why do you keep talking about game planning for a star player getting 13 minutes of ice time. If Torts were to design the Caps game plan, this would be it.
actually, the knuble/ward opening goal would tend to support those many that have been calling for those players to play when they were not and for them to play more when in the lineup. ward has 4pts already.

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05-01-2012, 09:43 AM
  #930
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Dale is being unpredictable. People can't wrap their brains around it, and some think we are winning despite him.

Yet there appears to be a completely different mindset of the team now. The players are keeping calm, presumed an extension of Dale.

When is the last time anyone saw Ovi gassed or loafing on defense? We are a different team now.

Dale is making an example out of Halpern, Knuble, Ovi, deliberately or not, and I think the other players have taken notice. And are bringing it.

Effort can triumph over skill. I think we see it every year in the playoffs.
People can't wrap their brains around the possibility that the Caps are winning in spite of him.

One can't discount the possibility that the Caps wouldn't have had to play one goal games in 8 of 9 matches if not for the current game plan. I know people say that a 2 goal lead is the most dangerous lead in hockey. That doesn't mean your game plan has to specifically avoid that possibility.

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05-01-2012, 09:44 AM
  #931
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I don't really think the success is sustainable but whatever I'll take it.

I don't even care so much about the ice time issues, even though I think you need to give Ovechkin atleast 16 minutes. I'm more pissed about the roster decisions, not scratching Aucoin keeping Halpern and many others in the dark for little or no reason. I didn't see the game had to work so only clips of it but my brother told me Sarge Green Hammer and Wideman all sucked. Gotta get Orlov in there.

Hammer can have a pass he's been great all playoffs but I wouldn't doubt if he was wearing down

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05-01-2012, 09:46 AM
  #932
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Actually how the **** did Backstrom get a career low as well? Complain about other defensive games but his? What a load of ****

I hope Hunter will be back in Ontario for Harvest

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05-01-2012, 09:46 AM
  #933
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
actually, the knuble/ward opening goal would tend to support those many that have been calling for those players to play when they were not and for them to play more when in the lineup. ward has 4pts already.
I don't see how our two points are related. I wanted to see more of Knuble/Ward. Those guys were getting less than 10 minutes a game. I wanted to see their minutes increased at the expense of Jay Beagle's and Matt Hendricks' TOI, not the 1st line's.

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05-01-2012, 09:53 AM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
I know people say that a 2 goal lead is the most dangerous lead in hockey. That doesn't mean your game plan has to specifically avoid that possibility.

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05-01-2012, 10:04 AM
  #935
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Originally Posted by NeilYoung View Post
Actually how the **** did Backstrom get a career low as well? Complain about other defensive games but his? What a load of ****

I hope Hunter will be back in Ontario for Harvest
Backstrom is leading the forwards in TOI in the playoffs.

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05-01-2012, 10:04 AM
  #936
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The Caps have never looked more playoff-ready and Caps fans heads are exploding. Weird.

The objective in the playoffs is to have more quality scoring opportunities than the opposition. Just look at what happened to the Pens this year -- I was thinking in March that they were a paper tiger, because they gave up tons of quality scoring chances to their opponents and it bit them hard.

Ovi, as we all know is high-risk, high-reward. He creates scoring opportunities for us, and he creates them for the opposition with his turnovers resulting from solo sorties into the O-zone and his, err, unhelpful play in the D-zone.

Bruce tried to change Ovi and it didn't work. Dale's not doing that --he's accepting Ovi for what he is, a high-risk, high-reward player and managing his minutes accordingly. Play him more when you need to take risks, play him less when you don't. That seems like, I dunno, pretty smart use of the asset.

If Ovi evolves into a more responsible 2-way player, you can manage his minutes differently. But he hasn't done that yet, and he's decidely not trustworthy in certain situations -- you coach the players you have, not the players you wish you had.

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05-01-2012, 10:06 AM
  #937
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
Backstrom is leading the forwards in TOI in the playoffs.
As he should be, but 15 minutes last night what the hell is that?

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05-01-2012, 10:09 AM
  #938
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I'm gonna be honest, I kinda liked Ninjechkin last night.

I like to see him play more, but it seemed like he had a lot of space to work with, which is a lot harder to come by when you're just rolling lines.

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05-01-2012, 10:09 AM
  #939
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Playing Girardi less means Stu Bickel probably played more or some other lesser light (Marc 2 Penalties a night Staal) played a bit more. I'm ok with that.

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05-01-2012, 10:09 AM
  #940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
People can't wrap their brains around the possibility that the Caps are winning in spite of him.

One can't discount the possibility that the Caps wouldn't have had to play one goal games in 8 of 9 matches if not for the current game plan. I know people say that a 2 goal lead is the most dangerous lead in hockey. That doesn't mean your game plan has to specifically avoid that possibility.
Locker said it became the 3 goal lead. Maybe there is something there. Easing up after going up 2 - why bother then.

Bruce leaned on his stars hard. If one got broken or was off, he just kept riding him. I used to think we would win despite BB, but we didn't, we always lost in the end.

For such a simple game, its not always easy to wrap our heads around what is really happening out there.

The dynamic of our team has changed, Ovi stuck in his playpen for much of the game, scoring when let out, has even made hockey discussed in Washington. There is no bigger dynamic in play than how Ovi is managed.

Bruce did it the wrong way, and maybe Dale is too. But we can't say its wrong until the season is over.

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05-01-2012, 10:13 AM
  #941
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I don't think OV is turnover prone at all. I'm not sure where that is coming from. If he does turn it over then it's usually because he was trying to make a play in the ozone.

A turn over in the ozone is much more tolerable than one in the d or neutral zone (think Semin, Backstrom, Green, or Wideman).

Ovechkin needs to improve his hustle and decision making when his line is pinned in their own zone, that I will agree with.

My theory as to why OV's minutes are down is because Hunter wants his line to cycle the puck down low which Ovechkin is not comfrotable with. Cycling the puck is a much safer play than trying to score off the rush. Hunter does not like to take chances.

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05-01-2012, 10:14 AM
  #942
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Bruce and Dale both suck, I love the wins but his roster decisions are brutal. I don't think it can hold up but will see hopefully

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05-01-2012, 10:22 AM
  #943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilYoung View Post
As he should be, but 15 minutes last night what the hell is that?
A bizarre strategy that ended up working for us.

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05-01-2012, 10:23 AM
  #944
Stewie G
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Originally Posted by marcel snapshot View Post
The Caps have never looked more playoff-ready and Caps fans heads are exploding. Weird.

The objective in the playoffs is to have more quality scoring opportunities than the opposition. Just look at what happened to the Pens this year -- I was thinking in March that they were a paper tiger, because they gave up tons of quality scoring chances to their opponents and it bit them hard.

Ovi, as we all know is high-risk, high-reward. He creates scoring opportunities for us, and he creates them for the opposition with his turnovers resulting from solo sorties into the O-zone and his, err, unhelpful play in the D-zone.

Bruce tried to change Ovi and it didn't work. Dale's not doing that --he's accepting Ovi for what he is, a high-risk, high-reward player and managing his minutes accordingly. Play him more when you need to take risks, play him less when you don't. That seems like, I dunno, pretty smart use of the asset.

If Ovi evolves into a more responsible 2-way player, you can manage his minutes differently. But he hasn't done that yet, and he's decidely not trustworthy in certain situations -- you coach the players you have, not the players you wish you had.
While true to some extent, I think the Capitals are a paper turtle. Playing for a one goal game where a single break against you could spell doom, especially when a large portion of the personnel aren't suited for that style of play. Has it worked out so far? Yes. Is it possible that there are even better ways to use the players he currently has? My answer is a resounding yes. Can this type of play succeed against better teams or when the worm turns against you? My answer there is no. There is almost no margin for error, bad goaltending, or bad luck.

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05-01-2012, 10:26 AM
  #945
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Honestly, who gives a damn about certain players' playing time. If it takes Ovie, Backstrom, and Semin dressing up as cheerleaders and dancing in the aisle in order to win the Cup this year then they better start taking dancing lessons.

To the players' credit (especially Ovie, since he's the most selfish player ever laced up according to his haters)... I have not heard a complaint about TOI even with the losses.

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Old
05-01-2012, 10:31 AM
  #946
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
A bizarre strategy that ended up working for us.
I think playing Backstrom more than 15 minutes would have made it easier to win, but hey what the **** do I know

Playing an all star center well less than a third of the game despite his excellent defensive game and all around smart play, seems like a great decision

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Old
05-01-2012, 10:32 AM
  #947
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Originally Posted by Oldskool View Post
Honestly, who gives a damn about certain players' playing time. If it takes Ovie, Backstrom, and Semin dressing up as cheerleaders and dancing in the aisle in order to win the Cup this year then they better start taking dancing lessons.

To the players' credit (especially Ovie, since he's the most selfish player ever laced up according to his haters)... I have not heard a complaint about TOI even with the losses.
People who give a damn think that if the playing time trends continue, they won't win a Cup.

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05-01-2012, 10:37 AM
  #948
txpd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Dale is being unpredictable. People can't wrap their brains around it, and some think we are winning despite him.

Yet there appears to be a completely different mindset of the team now. The players are keeping calm, presumed an extension of Dale.

When is the last time anyone saw Ovi gassed or loafing on defense? We are a different team now.

Dale is making an example out of Halpern, Knuble, Ovi, Ward; deliberately or not, and I think the other players have taken notice. And are bringing it.

Effort can triumph over skill. I think we see it every year in the playoffs.
dale is not being unpredictable. he is being consistant with roster strategy that is not different/risky. but you can clearly see what he is doing with his players, in particular ovechkin.

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05-01-2012, 10:39 AM
  #949
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I couldn't help but notice Carlson troll Richards all game.

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Old
05-01-2012, 10:41 AM
  #950
txpd
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
People who give a damn think that if the playing time trends continue, they won't win a Cup.
this and using this strategy is clearly embarrassing the caps franchise player. so far, he has been very professional and very mature with his comments to the media. i doubt very seriously that his rope is infinite. if they dont win the cup doing this or at least make the finals, a very unhappy franchise player may result.

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