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List of candidates for Assistant GM's and Coach Part VII

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05-01-2012, 11:00 AM
  #76
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No comparison between Brisebois' record as an AHL GM and NHL contract specialist versus Bergevin's 20 years playing in the NHL
Playing in the NHL is not relevant experience for the GM job. It's a common thought that it is, but the job of managing a NHL team is a heck of a lot different than the job of playing in it and the way you look at the game has to be very different.

Example: if you are a player and you have a short-term drop in performance, you try to fix it; it's probably the most important thing on your mind. If you are a GM, you have to consider such short-term variations as par for the course and practically ignore them (or at least not give them undue importance). In a way, thinking the game like a player could easily become a detriment to being an effective GM.

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highly impressive pro scouting record that saw him oversee a huge turnaround in Chicago or about him being promoted by the Bowman regime when his former employer was fired?
We're giving Bergevin a heck of a lot of credit for getting promoted by the Blackhawks. They did a lot of mistakes under the Tallon regime too (not sending out QOs was a doozy).

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As usual, your arguments are ovewhelming. Brisebois may be the best candidate, but to say his resume is uniquely impressive is just silly. His resume is thin.
I don't think that his resume is "uniquely impressive"; it's just that Bergevin's and McGuire's are very thin, so Brisebois is way ahead on that front.


Last edited by MathMan: 05-01-2012 at 11:07 AM.
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05-01-2012, 11:05 AM
  #77
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I remember that draft like it was yesterday. McGuire said he loved Staal and Bourdon for the Habs at that spot. Let's be honest, nothing to controversial there. Price, as much as I love the guy was out of nowhere, much like PK was, at least for me.

All this misquoting is really annoying. Not just for McGuire but in general. People need to check their facts as these statements that aren't based in reality become gospel and the next thing you know the misinformation is the base for an argument when it's a complete non starter. If you're going to after McGuire, I'm sure there's actually points you can make without having to make **** up. C'mon people.
McGuire said Staal and Bourdon for defense. He said if the habs wanted a forward they should have gone after Brule. He later(much later) changed that opinion to Kopitar once Kopitar was showing that he wasn't as much as a question mark as people thought being from a "non-hockey" market.

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05-01-2012, 11:11 AM
  #78
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There are a lot of guys in the NHL who could barely pass grade school (watch an interview, or read a few (ex)NHL'er twitter pages, geez, I mean look at Mike Modano or Jeremy Roenick.. complete morons...) so I'm always weary when I see ex-star players names thrown out there and was especially worried about Roy or Damphousse. Thankfully they seem to be out of the mix.

But Bergevin seems a bit different from the mold and I support that. More of a role player. I actually think he would be an interesting choice as a coach to be honest, more in the Dan Bylsma mold. But as far as GM goes, he would be an interesting style of executive for us, a real change of face for the organization.

I still strongly support McGuire. I wonder what his relationship is like with Mackasey? Is Pierre too much of a control freak, would he have to choose his own assistants? Some combo of P.M, Bergevin, Mackasey, Timmins forming a management team would be cool.

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05-01-2012, 11:20 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Playing in the NHL is not relevant experience for the GM job. It's a common thought that it is, but the job of managing a NHL team is a heck of a lot different than the job of playing in it and the way you look at the game has to be very different.

Example: if you are a player and you have a short-term drop in performance, you try to fix it; it's probably the most important thing on your mind. If you are a GM, you have to consider such short-term variations as par for the course and practically ignore them (or at least not give them undue importance). In a way, thinking the game like a player could easily become a detriment to being an effective GM.



We're giving Bergevin a heck of a lot of credit for getting promoted by the Blackhawks. They did a lot of mistakes under the Tallon regime too (not sending out QOs was a doozy).



I don't think that his resume is "uniquely impressive"; it's just that Bergevin's and McGuire's are very thin, so Brisebois is way ahead on that front.
What do the words "talent evaluation" mean to you? Do they factor at all in your consideration of who should be the next GM? Do you feel Brisebois' resume demonstrates ability at an NHL level on this? By the same token, do you feel the pro scout (Begevin) was involved in the failure to send out QOs? While 20 years in the NHL may not qualify anyone to be a GM, do they not count as experience in the league? When comparing resumes, does not someone with 15 years longer in the NHL have at least an argument to having somewhat comparable experience to a 35 year old lawyer? Is being a pro scout not relevant to GM experience? Or how about we just return to my original question- what significant move at the NHL level do you feel Brisebois is responsible for? How is his resume in any meaningful way better than Bergevin's? Because he's held the title "AGM" slightly longer than Bergevin? That wipes out Bergevin's entire career in hockey? Yes he has been AGM for a few years while Bergevin only one, however for that duration his responsibilities have been largely concerned with the AHL level, while Bergevin has spent his management career focused on pro scouting, an area of distinct weakness during the period Brisebois was a hab.

Lastly, as for NHL experience being irelevent (although those less well informed like you make the mistake of thinking it is, right?) I mint point out the simple fact that ex-NHL players are all over the place in management in the NHL. Coincidence? Or would you suggest that all those owners and team presidents who hired them do not understand how to read a resume the way you do?


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05-01-2012, 11:23 AM
  #80
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There's a funny story about Bergevin pranking his teams GM while he was a player . Would be interesting to see him with the Montreal media, I bet players would love him too.

http://www.canada.com/story_print.ht...2383b&sponsor=

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"He's the only I've ever seen prank the GM," recounted Flames centre Craig Conroy. "It was hilarious. (Blues GM Larry Pleau) had gotten a prank on Bergevin and he was going to get him back." The set-up was elaborate and involved one of the writers from the St. Louis newspaper.

The conspirators concocted a fake article ripping Pleau and planted the bogus story in the batch of daily newspaper clippings made available by many teams.

"Larry used to sit in the stands during practice and flip through the stack," recalled Conroy.

"You could see Larry reading the planted story and thinking to himself, 'What the (bleep) is going on here?' He just snapped. We were all watching him and up the stairs he goes to (the supposed author of the article) who was sitting up in the stands and Larry was just screaming.

"So Bergy just huddled us around at centre ice and yelled, 'Got you back, Larry.' It was interesting." Another frequent prankster was Nick Fotiu, also renowned as one of the toughest enforcers in the business.

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05-01-2012, 11:24 AM
  #81
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Brisebois has been an AGM for several years besides being an AHL GM. (And took a bunch of "Montreal rejects" to build an AHL juggernaut, incidentally).

Bergevin has only been an AGM for a year and his education is Grade 11.

McGuire has been an AGM for a month and spent the last 15 years employed for spouting stereotypes and narratives.

There really is no comparison here.
I'm a huge proponent of higher education, but how relevant is Bergevin's education here?

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05-01-2012, 11:25 AM
  #82
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McGuire said Staal and Bourdon for defense. He said if the habs wanted a forward they should have gone after Brule. He later(much later) changed that opinion to Kopitar once Kopitar was showing that he wasn't as much as a question mark as people thought being from a "non-hockey" market.
That's not what I remember at all. He looooved Staal and Bourdon and said Montreal should go after them. The only time I heard him say anything about a forward it was Kopitar because he'd he'd us fix the hole at centre. In fact, I remember him being down on Brule even though he was highly touted.

I'm calling it as I remember it. I don't have a race in this GM race.

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05-01-2012, 11:32 AM
  #83
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There are a lot of guys in the NHL who could barely pass grade school (watch an interview, or read a few (ex)NHL'er twitter pages, geez, I mean look at Mike Modano or Jeremy Roenick.. complete morons...) so I'm always weary when I see ex-star players names thrown out there and was especially worried about Roy or Damphousse. Thankfully they seem to be out of the mix.

But Bergevin seems a bit different from the mold and I support that. More of a role player. I actually think he would be an interesting choice as a coach to be honest, more in the Dan Bylsma mold. But as far as GM goes, he would be an interesting style of executive for us, a real change of face for the organization.

I still strongly support McGuire. I wonder what his relationship is like with Mackasey? Is Pierre too much of a control freak, would he have to choose his own assistants? Some combo of P.M, Bergevin, Mackasey, Timmins forming a management team would be cool.

I agree this would be a good situation for the habs but it is simply not possible. These are important men with egos and will not change teams to stay in the same position. Also most teams will allow the guys to move on if it is for a higher position but will not allow a lateral move.


Last edited by IceDaddy: 05-01-2012 at 11:49 AM.
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05-01-2012, 11:53 AM
  #84
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Can someone tell me one good reason why they support mcGuire for this job?

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05-01-2012, 11:55 AM
  #85
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His comments the day of the draft


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05-01-2012, 11:56 AM
  #86
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Can someone tell me one good reason why they support mcGuire for this job?
blind faith

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05-01-2012, 12:01 PM
  #87
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blind faith
Admitting the truth the first step towards fixing one's problems. Congratulations.

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05-01-2012, 12:10 PM
  #88
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Can someone tell me one good reason why they support mcGuire for this job?
1. I agree with his 7 piece approach to building a team.
2. I agree with his comments about how a management team needs to manage the message. He has spoken at length on radio in the past about how in Pitt they have meetings before press conferences post game to ensure emotions were in check and the message was clear.
3. I agree with his emphasis on organizational standards, and his comments about following the Pitt model for encouraging young players to board with veterans.
4. I agree with his comments about how Montreal should embrace it's history and establish a clear identity with a Francophone presence.

I think McGuire would do a good job, but am also intrigued with Bergevin. Like many here, I think BriseBois would be a mistake as he is from the previous regime. Time for new blood.

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05-01-2012, 12:11 PM
  #89
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All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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05-01-2012, 12:11 PM
  #90
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education

There are two types of education street smarts and university education.Jimmy Pattison a billionaire who was a highschool dropout and Bill Gates who has no university education.Many people who never went to college are just as smart as people who went to college.These people work and never ask the government for a handout.

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05-01-2012, 12:11 PM
  #91
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All jokes aside though...I've learned from hfboards you can't use negative articles from 18 years ago as a negative against him...so there's nothing positive to go off of for him.

So I am continually confused why people think he should get the job. Yet lots of people seem to think it's a great idea. Kinda weird.

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05-01-2012, 12:13 PM
  #92
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All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
I see your at the third stage of truth in regards to your blind faith.

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05-01-2012, 12:13 PM
  #93
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1. I agree with his 7 piece approach to building a team.
2. I agree with his comments about how a management team needs to manage the message. He has spoken at length on radio in the past about how in Pitt they have meetings before press conferences post game to ensure emotions were in check and the message was clear.
3. I agree with his emphasis on organizational standards, and his comments about following the Pitt model for encouraging young players to board with veterans.
4. I agree with his comments about how Montreal should embrace it's history and establish a clear identity with a Francophone presence.

I think McGuire would do a good job, but am also intrigued with Bergevin. Like many here, I think BriseBois would be a mistake as he is from the previous regime. Time for new blood.
So basically because you hear him talk on radio as opposed to the other candidates who you haven't heard on radio?

Glad we could clear that up

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05-01-2012, 12:14 PM
  #94
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a good point was made about Mcguire - how can NBC let their premiere color man out of his job during the SC playoffs / finals - or how could the habs let him work to the middle of june with so much stuff that needs to be prepared? i think he's out of the running

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05-01-2012, 12:15 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Knuckles30 View Post
1. I agree with his 7 piece approach to building a team.
2. I agree with his comments about how a management team needs to manage the message. He has spoken at length on radio in the past about how in Pitt they have meetings before press conferences post game to ensure emotions were in check and the message was clear.
3. I agree with his emphasis on organizational standards, and his comments about following the Pitt model for encouraging young players to board with veterans.
4. I agree with his comments about how Montreal should embrace it's history and establish a clear identity with a Francophone presence.

I think McGuire would do a good job, but am also intrigued with Bergevin. Like many here, I think BriseBois would be a mistake as he is from the previous regime. Time for new blood.
Well I'm sold. We need to hire Pens assistant GM Botterill.

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05-01-2012, 12:18 PM
  #96
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I would say if Molson hires McGuire I would lose all faith in him, but I never had any faith in him anyways.

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05-01-2012, 12:19 PM
  #97
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All jokes aside though...I've learned from hfboards you can't use negative articles from 18 years ago as a negative against him...so there's nothing positive to go off of for him.

So I am continually confused why people think he should get the job. Yet lots of people seem to think it's a great idea. Kinda weird.
72% feel it's a good idea according to a CJAD poll I heard about this morning. Don't know the sampling size or anything else, but that's a high percentage.

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05-01-2012, 12:21 PM
  #98
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72% feel it's a good idea according to a CJAD poll I heard about this morning. Don't know the sampling size or anything else, but that's a high percentage.
Hahaha.

So that's your reason why they should hire him?

Fantastique

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05-01-2012, 12:22 PM
  #99
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72% feel it's a good idea according to a CJAD poll I heard about this morning. Don't know the sampling size or anything else, but that's a high percentage.
It's also an idea that is being championed by the montreal english media. It's getting really annoying. I can see lots of people just going with the idea since all people keep hearing on english radio stations is how perfect Mcguire is for the job.

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Old
05-01-2012, 12:22 PM
  #100
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72% feel it's a good idea according to a CJAD poll I heard about this morning. Don't know the sampling size or anything else, but that's a high percentage.
I bet if CJAD had a poll whether or they would want to draft Angelo Esposito in 2007 over McDonagh that the % would have been high as well.

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