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Old
04-20-2012, 10:11 AM
  #76
malkinfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starttomelt View Post
Sure, there's always the possibility with Huttwil (The "Helvetics") but you know the story behind this, right? There's a rich dude living in Huttwil whose team couldn't get promoted to the 2nd tier (because of a stupid formal mistake) and he was so angry about it he simply disbanded the team (first he threatened joining the KHL) and I simply can't imagine anyone caring for a possible KHL team is Switzerland when you have a full fuctioning domestic league with 70 year old rivalries against a team with no history in a non-hockey market.
Yada Yada. This is what everyone says. Then an all-star team is made up of all stars from the domestic league who people can't resist cheering for. And tradition has to be built somehow, time to put away the old man mentality and build new traditions. All traditions have a beginning.

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04-20-2012, 10:51 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Yada Yada. This is what everyone says. Then an all-star team is made up of all stars from the domestic league who people can't resist cheering for. And tradition has to be built somehow, time to put away the old man mentality and build new traditions. All traditions have a beginning.
You make it sound like there is a long list of examples of the KHL setting up shop in a country with a well established and supported domestic league and having success.

I don't think the points starttomelt made should just be dismissed with a 'Yada Yada'. I also don't think it would be certainty that a majority of the best Swiss based players would sign on with this new team. Top Swiss players are already paid very well and I would imagine the light travel schedule is also pretty appealing to a lot of players.

Not saying it couldn't be a success, but I think it is/would be a very high hill to climb.

If the NHL announced a European expansion plan I would also be (probably even more) skeptical of success.

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04-20-2012, 12:47 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
They don't even have a VHL level infrastructure, yet it didn't stop them from applying for a place there. It's Russia, anything can happen.
New arena for 3200 seats in Krasnodar.
http://ctc-ekaterinodar.tv/proekty/d...rasnodare.html

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Old
04-20-2012, 01:05 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by ult View Post
New arena for 3200 seats in Krasnodar.
http://ctc-ekaterinodar.tv/proekty/d...rasnodare.html
Thanks for the link. Good news an thank God, they picked the traditional name of Kuban and nothing artificial like "Lev".

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Old
04-20-2012, 01:09 PM
  #80
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They don't even have a VHL level infrastructure
btw, minimun capacity of VHL club is 2 500 seats

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Old
04-20-2012, 01:14 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Thanks for the link. Good news an thank God, they picked the traditional name of Kuban and nothing artificial like "Lev".
Lev, translated as lion, is traditional part of coat of arms in czech lands. Nowadays it is part of the coat of arms of the Czech Republic.


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04-20-2012, 01:37 PM
  #82
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I am well aware of what Lev means and I still think it's a NA styled gimmicky name. Lions could be their nicknames but that's about it.

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04-20-2012, 01:57 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
I am well aware of what Lev means and I still think it's a NA styled gimmicky name. Lions could be their nicknames but that's about it.
Could be ČKD Lokomtiv Praha based on the owner

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Old
04-20-2012, 06:13 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Yada Yada. This is what everyone says. Then an all-star team is made up of all stars from the domestic league who people can't resist cheering for. And tradition has to be built somehow, time to put away the old man mentality and build new traditions. All traditions have a beginning.
Maybe you're right (and I'm wrong) but I wouldn't be so sure about that. Nobody attends a hockey game because you wanna see a certain player here in Switzerland. You go to the games because you're a (lifelong?) fan of your club. I'm not saying that there aren't any good players in Switzerland but we don't have any "star players". A team that's made up from the best players of our league still isn't that good of a team. Case in point: Nobody cares for the All-Star game in Switzerland (I even think they're not gonna do another one next season because attendance was always so poor).

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Old
04-20-2012, 06:16 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by CoolForumNamePending View Post
If the NHL announced a European expansion plan I would also be (probably even more) skeptical of success.
Pretty sure that this would be a success. The NHL is a household name even a casual sports fan knows about (the KHL... not so much).

For example: If a swiss team plays an exhibition game against an NHL team (Like Zug last year or Zurich three years ago) it's a "once in a lifetime"-event that draws masses. If they play an exhibition game against a KHL team it's just "another exhibition game". It's cool when teams from the KHL play the Spengler Cup, for example, but if there'd be a NHL team enter, I guarantee you, that the tickets would sold out in a few seconds.

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Old
04-21-2012, 09:02 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
I am well aware of what Lev means and I still think it's a NA styled gimmicky name. Lions could be their nicknames but that's about it.
...what are you talking about??

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04-22-2012, 11:19 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
...what are you talking about??
Not a fan of animal themed team names in Europe. Moscow Bulls, Donetsk's River Rats, etc. imo HC Poprad > Lev Poprad

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04-22-2012, 11:42 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Not a fan of animal themed team names in Europe. Moscow Bulls, Donetsk's River Rats, etc. imo HC Poprad > Lev Poprad
I'd prefer if they had "HC" in their name too.

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04-22-2012, 11:53 AM
  #89
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I prefer they have hockey names and not soccer names

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Old
04-22-2012, 12:09 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
I prefer they have hockey names and not soccer names
What's a soccer name? When a team has "United", "City", "Wanderers" at the end of it, or HK/HC at the beginning? It's simply how things are done in Europe. A lot of those teams with "soccerish" names are older than 99% of NA hockey clubs.

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Old
05-01-2012, 06:47 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Yada Yada. This is what everyone says. Then an all-star team is made up of all stars from the domestic league who people can't resist cheering for. And tradition has to be built somehow, time to put away the old man mentality and build new traditions. All traditions have a beginning.
Just a question. Why do you think there is no european elite soccer league?

It would probably be a really great deal for those fans of Real Madrid or Manchester United - who would probably join this league then - because they would see the best of the best playing against each other year in year out.

But for fans like Athletico Madrid and Manchester City it would mean that their biggest rival would disappear. Also, the domestic leagues would lose a lot of stars with which they promote their league and the overall level of the game would significantly drop, because every top tier player would prefer to play in the elite league. It would be NHL-esque.

But to get back to hockey. The only thing i think why the KHL could work, is that guys like Ehrhoff or Streit could play for Berlin or Bern and would increase the interest among hockey fans for these teams because they are stars in their countries.

But in every other aspect the KHL is just another NHL that has less star power, less marketable teams, less revenue for owners and media, less tradition and established rivalries (between russian and non-russian teams) and less prestige that would bribe teams and especially players to play in.

And we all know how "healthy" the NHL is for national development. So every argument could be made, but not this one.

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Old
05-02-2012, 12:08 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Joey Banana View Post
Just a question. Why do you think there is no european elite soccer league?

It would probably be a really great deal for those fans of Real Madrid or Manchester United - who would probably join this league then - because they would see the best of the best playing against each other year in year out.

But for fans like Athletico Madrid and Manchester City it would mean that their biggest rival would disappear. Also, the domestic leagues would lose a lot of stars with which they promote their league and the overall level of the game would significantly drop, because every top tier player would prefer to play in the elite league. It would be NHL-esque.

But to get back to hockey. The only thing i think why the KHL could work, is that guys like Ehrhoff or Streit could play for Berlin or Bern and would increase the interest among hockey fans for these teams because they are stars in their countries.

But in every other aspect the KHL is just another NHL that has less star power, less marketable teams, less revenue for owners and media, less tradition and established rivalries (between russian and non-russian teams) and less prestige that would bribe teams and especially players to play in.

And we all know how "healthy" the NHL is for national development. So every argument could be made, but not this one.
I think because there is no need of it. Europe is center of the worlds soccer, so there is no need to change anything. Maybe it would be more accurate to compare hockey Europe and soccer South America. I'm sure they'd love to have all their stars at home where domestic fans could watch them live. Unfortunately it's all about money, if somebody in european hockey has money to make some players to stay, it's great. It will help to build quality and prestige, so some time after this the best players could stay in Europe as well.


Last edited by zorz: 05-02-2012 at 12:18 AM.
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Old
05-02-2012, 04:23 AM
  #93
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Joey Banana

good point but I have simple Q: Are you satisfied by current euro hockey? I am not.

Look,
1.best europeans are leaving for CHL, AHL, NHL (it is not bad of course) for free or not appropriate money. Similar situation like soccer for Brasil/Argentina. Those countries lose best players for euro leagues but euro clubs pay transfer fees for them, appropriate one not like NHL clubs do.

Quote:
In 2003, Seville paid around 1.7 million for Julio Baptista and Kaka joined AC Milan for just 5  million.
Quote:
Those days are over. Internacional have rejected Tottenham Hotspur's offer of 10.5  million for striker Leandro Damiao, 21. Santos want 40 million for Neymar, 19. Sao Paulo have put an incredible 70  million price tag on Lucas Moura, 18.
Quote:
That is why in March Chelsea paid around 6.5 million to Sao Paulo for forward Lucas Piazon, 17, who has yet to make a professional appearance.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...the-cheap.html

now, compare these sums to NHL fees for euro clubs - 150-200 000 dollars or nothing (like Malkin, Ovie, Grigorenko - top players in globe, at least Malkin, Ovie). I dont care there is not transfer agreement among NHL and Euro leagues. There is market ..

2. Euro domestic leagues does not have power to change this pro-NHL system which is not advantageous for euro clubs. No good leagues in Europe, no revenues, no interest of fans, no great players, no appropriate transfer fees

Do you like this system? If yes, ok. I dont like it. This is a reason why I support euro league - one, strong. I dont care if russians, swedes or whoever governs it. If it keeps players or changes attitude of NHL towards Europe, I will be happy.

Domestic leagues have had 20 years to become stonger, to have power.. look at reality. Elitserien and SM-Liiga are NHL farm leagues (NHL clubs loan players here), Germany, Slovakia, Czech rep has not good enough league.. KHL is stronger than every league in Europe after 4 years since creation. Euro domestic leagues have had 20 years to achieve this status - they failed. No Champions league.. why? Euro domestic leagues failed and will fail in future one more time. Therefore one stong league is option for Europe. Like it or not.

I am aware of your arguments against this scenario but its positives are OVER negatives in my eyes. Try to convince me I am wrong.. and pls dont tell me because NHL is best league.. ok, it is but why NHL clubs dont pay appropriate money for europeans? Bundesliga, Premiere League, La Liga are also best in the globe but pay appropriate money to brasilian clubs

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Old
05-02-2012, 04:28 AM
  #94
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Just a question. Why do you think there is no european elite soccer league?
Only because of FIFA. That's the only reason. The organization doesn't tolerate multi-national leagues, even now they look at Canadian-American MLS with disgust and recommend the league to get rid of NA style play-offs... And you just try to create such a league as EBEL or KHL (or Adriatic League, Baltic League in basketball) in soccer Europe where the organization is particularly stong and you'll see that you get nowhere... I think there was a plan where Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania wanted to create one Baltic league in football but UEFA or FIFA or whatever would only allow tournament like cometitions among clubs from different countries, not united legues..... It's very strong here.

The top clubs of the world, Barcelona, Real, United, Italians... they all want to play in a united European league (especially, I think, Spanish and English clubs) but as long as UEFA and FIFA positions are as strong as they are, nothing will happen in soccer with moving to multi-national leagues.

If there would be no FIFA, we'd already see a united Ex-Yugoslavian league and united Baltic league (like in basketball) in football and also a ''Nordic league'' of sorts in Denmark/Norway/Sweden I guess, but as long as UEFA or FIFA dictates the order of things in European football, we only get tournament-like competitions in Europe....

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05-02-2012, 04:34 AM
  #95
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I think because there is no need of it. Europe is center of the worlds soccer, so there is no need to change anything.
For big markets maybe but I bet if only FIFA allowed it, all the ex-Yugoslavian countries would already be in one united league, Baltics would be in one united league and maybe also Scandinavia... just because the markets are too small.

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05-02-2012, 04:52 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Latgale_fan View Post
Only because of FIFA. That's the only reason. The organization doesn't tolerate multi-national leagues, even now they look at Canadian-American MLS with disgust and recommend the league to get rid of NA style play-offs... And you just try to create such a league as EBEL or KHL (or Adriatic League, Baltic League in basketball) in soccer Europe where the organization is particularly stong and you'll see that you get nowhere... I think there was a plan where Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania wanted to create one Baltic league in football but UEFA or FIFA or whatever would only allow tournament like cometitions among clubs from different countries, not united legues..... It's very strong here.

The top clubs of the world, Barcelona, Real, United, Italians... they all want to play in a united European league (especially, I think, Spanish and English clubs) but as long as UEFA and FIFA positions are as strong as they are, nothing will happen in soccer with moving to multi-national leagues.

If there would be no FIFA, we'd already see a united Ex-Yugoslavian league and united Baltic league (like in basketball) in football and also a ''Nordic league'' of sorts in Denmark/Norway/Sweden I guess, but as long as UEFA or FIFA dictates the order of things in European football, we only get tournament-like competitions in Europe....
Thank god FIFA has this power and keeps some order in football. That would be the worst thing if FIFA, UEFA etc. lost control and all football turned into the same mess as hockey - leagues doing whatever they want with the sport not caring about anything but money. I'm not saying it's good they don't allow united baltic or balkan league though.

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05-02-2012, 05:51 AM
  #97
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Slovakia and Czech rep, mostly Slovaks, would like to create common football league as well... just to add more info on topic

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Old
05-02-2012, 07:08 AM
  #98
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Bad news for the NHL, but outstanding news for the sport of hockey. More awareness/growth equals a plus for the sport of hockey in my books.

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05-02-2012, 11:07 AM
  #99
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This is why the UEFA Champions League and Europa League, etc. exist

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05-02-2012, 11:12 AM
  #100
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This is why the UEFA Champions League and Europa League, etc. exist
yep, can similar model work for hockey? I think yes, but domestic leagues are not interested or not money. Look at history of Champions Hockey League - failure.

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