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05-01-2012, 09:51 PM
  #1
JohnnyOnTheSpot
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The Flyers stink without pressure/adversity

This team...lol. Totally playing as I expected. I'm going to break down what I think the problem is.

Pittsburgh series. No one picked them to win, backs against the wall playing the "better" team. They come out insane, winning the first 3 games, pouring their hearts out every game and winning because of that. So naturally, the pressure lifts a little bit because "Hey, we only need to win 1/4, and we won 3 already." They get embarrassed in game 4, which wakes them up a bit but still not to the point of grave concern. Game 5 they play better but not their best hockey, which completely wakes them up and they absolutely dominate game 6.

Devils series. A week layoff naturally kills the adrenaline, and I believe they're heavily favored to win this series (haven't checked personally, just what I'm hearing). The Flyers, to me, are much better than the Devils (not trying to offend any Devils fans here, just an opinion). So there is much less pressure to win than in the Pitt series because they're expected to win. Game 1, not their best effort but squeak out a win, which I think caused Game 2's result. They simply didn't have the compete level aside from like 12 minutes of game time. They won game 1 not playing a complete game, which naturally decreased the pressure. The desperation wasn't there...always electing for the fancy pass over grinding them out and so on.

I mean I'm sure this can apply to many teams, but there is something about this team that makes them disappear without pressure. They play down to teams, coast, but when pressure hits, they dominate. I think they can beat any team in the NHL in a 7 game series, just need to manage the intensity.

I expect game 3 to either be game 5 of the Pitt series, or game 6. Hoping for game 6 results, obviously. Not concerned about this team one bit, I know they can win this series, just need to actually feel pressure to perform.

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05-01-2012, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
This team...lol. Totally playing as I expected. I'm going to break down what I think the problem is.

Pittsburgh series. No one picked them to win, backs against the wall playing the "better" team. They come out insane, winning the first 3 games, pouring their hearts out every game and winning because of that. So naturally, the pressure lifts a little bit because "Hey, we only need to win 1/4, and we won 3 already." They get embarrassed in game 4, which wakes them up a bit but still not to the point of grave concern. Game 5 they play better but not their best hockey, which completely wakes them up and they absolutely dominate game 6.

Devils series. A week layoff naturally kills the adrenaline, and I believe they're heavily favored to win this series (haven't checked personally, just what I'm hearing). The Flyers, to me, are much better than the Devils (not trying to offend any Devils fans here, just an opinion). So there is much less pressure to win than in the Pitt series because they're expected to win. Game 1, not their best effort but squeak out a win, which I think caused Game 2's result. They simply didn't have the compete level aside from like 12 minutes of game time. They won game 1 not playing a complete game, which naturally decreased the pressure. The desperation wasn't there...always electing for the fancy pass over grinding them out and so on.

I mean I'm sure this can apply to many teams, but there is something about this team that makes them disappear without pressure. They play down to teams, coast, but when pressure hits, they dominate. I think they can beat any team in the NHL in a 7 game series, just need to manage the intensity.

I expect game 3 to either be game 5 of the Pitt series, or game 6. Hoping for game 6 results, obviously. Not concerned about this team one bit, I know they can win this series, just need to actually feel pressure to perform.
Well said, I agree for the most part but I would disagree on the Game 4 against Pittsburgh, I'd say the team was under a lot of pressure to finish the series off.

What pisses me off mostly is that they insist on playing a 20 minute game most of the time. Like you would really think they'd get their **** together and start putting together a 60 minute effort. We need that effort constantly, not just in one game or two. It mostly the case that the team loosens up after scoring 1 goal. No pressure, no aggressiveness, and with today barely any shots taken. This team takes SO many periods off it's a joke.

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05-01-2012, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MacJagr View Post
Well said, I agree for the most part but I would disagree on the Game 4 against Pittsburgh, I'd say the team was under a lot of pressure to finish the series off.

What pisses me off mostly is that they insist on playing a 20 minute game most of the time. Like you would really think they'd get their **** together and start putting together a 60 minute effort. We need that effort constantly, not just in one game or two. It mostly the case that the team loosens up after scoring 1 goal. No pressure, no aggressiveness, and with today barely any shots taken. This team takes SO many periods off it's a joke.
Well you'd think they were under a lot of pressure game 4 lol, but you can tell by their game that they weren't pressuring themselves. The necessity wasn't there, the urgency was non-existent, they felt no pressure because 1) they weren't expected to be there and 2) they only needed to win 1/4.

And yea you're right, they take periods off a ridiculous amount, it's friggin' annoying. When they're on their game, they're almost unbeatable. They just chose to rarely play it.

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05-01-2012, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
Well you'd think they were under a lot of pressure game 4 lol, but you can tell by their game that they weren't pressuring themselves. The necessity wasn't there, the urgency was non-existent, they felt no pressure because 1) they weren't expected to be there and 2) they only needed to win 1/4.

And yea you're right, they take periods off a ridiculous amount, it's friggin' annoying. When they're on their game, they're almost unbeatable. They just chose to rarely play it.
Exactly. Talent wise, I think we got more than enough team to sweep the Devils (I respect the Devils and all that jazz - I just honestly think we have the better team) however the reason we won't is because as you said it, they will rarely play on their game, I seriously ****ing hope Lavi rips them a new one and get the team focused and fired up for the next game. It's kind of a joke how we just keep putting in a 20 minute effort in most games when we are more than capable of destroying everyone out there. We won't get anywhere unless we put up a consistent effort in all games, not just the ones they feel like playing. It's seriously becoming unacceptable

Edit: Kinda sucked how Bryz showed up and everyone else screwed him over.

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05-01-2012, 10:58 PM
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I'm still really confident that the Flyers win, and think they can do it in 5 like I predicted. They're better than the Devils and had a complete lack of effort tonight. They came out flying, scored first and figured they had the game. I'm not going to say the Devils didn't win the game but that the Flyers lost it, but the Flyers sure didn't look like they were trying to win it.

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05-01-2012, 11:24 PM
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I predicted 6 and Im staying with it. While Kovalchuk being out tonight helped them, if they want to beat the Flyers he needs to close to 100%. I just dont think he will be able to get to that level in time.

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05-01-2012, 11:24 PM
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I don't want to sound rude in my first post here, but I have to disagree with this topic.

Earlier today I was reading another topic on this forum about how Flyers are not getting credit for their success, and how fans of the Penguins and Devils were claiming that their teams "stopped trying" or something similar. In this case, I think we are not giving the Devils enough credit.

I don't think the Flyers are playing with less intensity or less focus, I think they are legitimately getting outplayed in some periods. I watched the entire game and it was clear that they were trying just as hard in the 2nd and 3rd periods as they tried in the first, but the Devils shut them down.

I don't know specifically why the Devils were able to dominate the 2nd and 3rd periods, but here are some things they did that made the Flyers' strategy less effective:

-Aggressively preventing entrance into the zone and repeatedly flipping the puck out to mid-ice without chasing
-Often leaving 3 or 4 players in mid-ice (like the trap) to prevent the long outlet pass
-Playing tight defense so players like Giroux/Briere/Voracek had no room to work with and generate opportunities
-Leaving a defenseman behind their own net at most times for the sole purpose of sending dump-in passes back out of the zone
-Brodeur aggressively playing the puck when necessary

I think the Flyers will have to alter their strategy significantly or I fear that they will not make it far in this series or the next, let alone the Stanley Cup finals.

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05-01-2012, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thornwaite87 View Post
I don't want to sound rude in my first post here, but I have to disagree with this topic.

Earlier today I was reading another topic on this forum about how Flyers are not getting credit for their success, and how fans of the Penguins and Devils were claiming that their teams "stopped trying" or something similar. In this case, I think we are not giving the Devils enough credit.

I don't think the Flyers are playing with less intensity or less focus, I think they are legitimately getting outplayed in some periods. I watched the entire game and it was clear that they were trying just as hard in the 2nd and 3rd periods as they tried in the first, but the Devils shut them down.

I don't know specifically why the Devils were able to dominate the 2nd and 3rd periods, but here are some things they did that made the Flyers' strategy less effective:

-Aggressively preventing entrance into the zone and repeatedly flipping the puck out to mid-ice without chasing
-Often leaving 3 or 4 players in mid-ice (like the trap) to prevent the long outlet pass
-Playing tight defense so players like Giroux/Briere/Voracek had no room to work with and generate opportunities
-Leaving a defenseman behind their own net at most times for the sole purpose of sending dump-in passes back out of the zone
-Brodeur aggressively playing the puck when necessary

I think the Flyers will have to alter their strategy significantly or I fear that they will not make it far in this series or the next, let alone the Stanley Cup finals.
I think we are giving the Devils enough credit. The thing is this team is too talented imo to be held without a shot for 17 minutes, and to have no shots on 7 minutes with the man advantage? As well as the Devils played, the Flyers were also out worked.

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05-02-2012, 12:11 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
This team...lol. Totally playing as I expected. I'm going to break down what I think the problem is.

Pittsburgh series. No one picked them to win, backs against the wall playing the "better" team. They come out insane, winning the first 3 games, pouring their hearts out every game and winning because of that. So naturally, the pressure lifts a little bit because "Hey, we only need to win 1/4, and we won 3 already." They get embarrassed in game 4, which wakes them up a bit but still not to the point of grave concern. Game 5 they play better but not their best hockey, which completely wakes them up and they absolutely dominate game 6.

Devils series. A week layoff naturally kills the adrenaline, and I believe they're heavily favored to win this series (haven't checked personally, just what I'm hearing). The Flyers, to me, are much better than the Devils (not trying to offend any Devils fans here, just an opinion). So there is much less pressure to win than in the Pitt series because they're expected to win. Game 1, not their best effort but squeak out a win, which I think caused Game 2's result. They simply didn't have the compete level aside from like 12 minutes of game time. They won game 1 not playing a complete game, which naturally decreased the pressure. The desperation wasn't there...always electing for the fancy pass over grinding them out and so on.

I mean I'm sure this can apply to many teams, but there is something about this team that makes them disappear without pressure. They play down to teams, coast, but when pressure hits, they dominate. I think they can beat any team in the NHL in a 7 game series, just need to manage the intensity.

I expect game 3 to either be game 5 of the Pitt series, or game 6. Hoping for game 6 results, obviously. Not concerned about this team one bit, I know they can win this series, just need to actually feel pressure to perform.
Here's going to be the Flyers problem, they will have a hard time knocking the Devils off their game like they did to Pittsburgh. Flyers did great work on getting Pittsburgh to think about anything but playing hockey. Pittsburgh tried and failed to match Philadelphia's physicality, toughness and speed and failed miserably. Philadelphia should still win this series according to most people's opinions but I think you are in for a surprise if you think The Flyers are just waiting to have pressure mounted on them. This is a series against a much more mature squad who will be ready to play every game.

I won't wish you good luck, but enjoy the rest of the series, it's been good hockey so far.


Last edited by Al Trautwig: 05-02-2012 at 12:13 AM. Reason: Trautwiggin'
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05-02-2012, 12:19 AM
  #10
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I expected this series to be tougher in the sense that I thought these games would be closer to the vest or whatever you want to call it. NJ deserves full marks for the way they played tonight. They totally outworked the Flyers and deserved the win.
I fully expect a much better Flyer team in game 3.

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05-02-2012, 12:30 AM
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I expect 7 games this series. I mean they only finished 1 point behind us. It doesn't matter who we have on our team or how many scorers. We have had the same team all year and still only finished 1 point ahead. They are just as good as us. People got real cocky after the pittsburgh series because we have their number for some reason. Granted i didn't watch tonights game, but thats the flyers for you unfortunately. You just really don't know what to expect from this team at times. Lets face it, we didn't even know if we were going to be playoff material after the shakeup.

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05-02-2012, 12:41 AM
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i admit I predicted Flyers in 5 and it could still go that way. However I also thought the games would all be tight hard fought games.
We easily could be down 0-2 if not for Bryz in the 1st in game 1. The way the Flyers were dominated in the 1st period on Sunday and the last 2 periods tonight have to be a bit concerning. your not going to beat anyone by playing 20-40 minutes a night. They got away with it Sunday. Tonight they got what the deserved. a spanking on the scoreboard.
You cannot make excuses. Our best players have to be much, much better going forward in this series if the Flyers are to advance. If this trend continues it will not end well.

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05-02-2012, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacJagr View Post
Exactly. Talent wise, I think we got more than enough team to sweep the Devils (I respect the Devils and all that jazz - I just honestly think we have the better team) however the reason we won't is because as you said it, they will rarely play on their game, I seriously ****ing hope Lavi rips them a new one and get the team focused and fired up for the next game. It's kind of a joke how we just keep putting in a 20 minute effort in most games when we are more than capable of destroying everyone out there. We won't get anywhere unless we put up a consistent effort in all games, not just the ones they feel like playing. It's seriously becoming unacceptable

Edit: Kinda sucked how Bryz showed up and everyone else screwed him over.
Do you realize how much better of a team or how much luck is needed to sweep a team? I would put up even money Philadelphia or New Jersey wouldn't sweep the current Montreal Canadiens or Columbus Blue Jackets in a series.

New Jersey was one freaking point behind Philadelphia in the standings this season without our number 1 center, who we now have back. With Kovalchuk out of the lineup until healthy NJ has probably a 50% chance of winning this series whether people want to believe it or not.

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05-02-2012, 07:07 AM
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Do you realize how much better of a team or how much luck is needed to sweep a team? I would put up even money Philadelphia or New Jersey wouldn't sweep the current Montreal Canadiens or Columbus Blue Jackets in a series.

New Jersey was one freaking point behind Philadelphia in the standings this season without our number 1 center, who we now have back. With Kovalchuk out of the lineup until healthy NJ has probably a 50% chance of winning this series whether people want to believe it or not.
We would've swept Pittsburgh had we actually showed up in Game 4, no question about it. This team is too talented and when they are on their game they are pretty darn hard to beat, and we've all seen that, only IF they play they play a proper 60 minute game constantly (Something a long the likes of Game 6 against the Penguins).

And the Penguins were 5 points ahead of Philly, what's your point? We beat them with their nearly 100% full line up. (And don't give me that **** about the Penguins D or MAF - Yes they haven't been top notch but seriously if other teams can't beat the Flyers team without Mesz or Pronger hell even a pretty much shaky inconsistent Bryz, it really just shows how much depth this team has.)

I have down the Flyers to take this series in 6 - the reason it's six is because I know they'll be games like this when they simply fail to show up.

But if Bryz looks like the way he did yesterday, and the team get it's **** together, that would certainly be something.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike2000z28 View Post
I expect 7 games this series. I mean they only finished 1 point behind us. It doesn't matter who we have on our team or how many scorers. We have had the same team all year and still only finished 1 point ahead. They are just as good as us. People got real cocky after the pittsburgh series because we have their number for some reason. Granted i didn't watch tonights game, but thats the flyers for you unfortunately. You just really don't know what to expect from this team at times. Lets face it, we didn't even know if we were going to be playoff material after the shakeup.
Yes and no, we've been ****ed over by injuries countless of times, and our goaltending has been pretty much inconsistent throughout the season. And then you have players who just don't feel like playing through out regular. The team more or less might be the same on paper but there's more than one factor effecting the way the team is playing, and that's probably why the Flyers ended up just 1 point ahead of Devils. Like, dude just imagine if we have a 100% healthy line up this season. ****.


Last edited by TyrannoMeszarosRex: 05-02-2012 at 07:35 AM.
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05-02-2012, 07:50 AM
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Two words: Killer Instinct. The Flyers are mostly a bunch of young guys or soft-spoken vets. They need to learn that when you have someone down in the playoffs, that's your time to break them and end it. After Pittsburgh, I thought they'd roll through NJ like a warm knife through butter, but apparently, they didn't learn their lesson from letting Pittsburgh back into the series.

I actually expect our best game of the playoffs tomorrow night.

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05-02-2012, 08:09 AM
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yeah...maybe our forwards are control freaks.

bryz is winning the game and they don't know how to play. maybe they need to be the reason we win.

who knows. what a suprisingly awful display last night. I knew though after the first ten mins, we would never uphold that for 60 mins. too bad we played poorly for 50 minutes instead of the usual 10. it was like game 4 vs the pens all over again

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05-02-2012, 08:29 AM
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Give credit where credit is due. The Devils completely outplayed us after the first goal. The were the first to every puck, and controlled the flow of the game. You could tell they wanted it badly. Hopefully we come out with that mentality in game 3, if not we may piss away this series. Which would be a huge disappointment after beating the Pens. I think we're at least expected to make it to the ECF if not the SCF.

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05-02-2012, 08:38 AM
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4-0 When being scored on first 1-3 when scoring first lol, such an odd statistic.

It was basically the opposite of Sunday, Flyers dominated the first, laid an egg the rest of the game. Devils dominated the 2nd period, Flyers got two shots on net. Don't really recall even hearing the top lines name that much.

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05-02-2012, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
This team...lol. Totally playing as I expected. I'm going to break down what I think the problem is.

Pittsburgh series. No one picked them to win, backs against the wall playing the "better" team. They come out insane, winning the first 3 games, pouring their hearts out every game and winning because of that. So naturally, the pressure lifts a little bit because "Hey, we only need to win 1/4, and we won 3 already." They get embarrassed in game 4, which wakes them up a bit but still not to the point of grave concern. Game 5 they play better but not their best hockey, which completely wakes them up and they absolutely dominate game 6.

Devils series. A week layoff naturally kills the adrenaline, and I believe they're heavily favored to win this series (haven't checked personally, just what I'm hearing). The Flyers, to me, are much better than the Devils (not trying to offend any Devils fans here, just an opinion). So there is much less pressure to win than in the Pitt series because they're expected to win. Game 1, not their best effort but squeak out a win, which I think caused Game 2's result. They simply didn't have the compete level aside from like 12 minutes of game time. They won game 1 not playing a complete game, which naturally decreased the pressure. The desperation wasn't there...always electing for the fancy pass over grinding them out and so on.

I mean I'm sure this can apply to many teams, but there is something about this team that makes them disappear without pressure. They play down to teams, coast, but when pressure hits, they dominate. I think they can beat any team in the NHL in a 7 game series, just need to manage the intensity.

I expect game 3 to either be game 5 of the Pitt series, or game 6. Hoping for game 6 results, obviously. Not concerned about this team one bit, I know they can win this series, just need to actually feel pressure to perform.
These were pretty much Lavy's exact words this morning on WIP.

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05-02-2012, 09:42 AM
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healthy NJ has probably a 50% chance of winning this series whether people want to believe it or not.
nope. no one wants to believe it. and not many do.

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05-02-2012, 09:50 AM
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I didn't start this thread to toot the Flyers horn, say the Devils were irrelevant, any of that. I'm simply saying that the Flyers do not play as well without pressure. By a lot. This is no discredit to the Pens or Devils, I'm just stating a strange phenomenon that I don't think can be argued against. And I don't think it's as simple as the other team playing really well, I'm blaming the Flyers here, because if the other team is playing really well, you could still show some effort.

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05-02-2012, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
I didn't start this thread to toot the Flyers horn, say the Devils were irrelevant, any of that. I'm simply saying that the Flyers do not play as well without pressure. By a lot. This is no discredit to the Pens or Devils, I'm just stating a strange phenomenon that I don't think can be argued against. And I don't think it's as simple as the other team playing really well, I'm blaming the Flyers here, because if the other team is playing really well, you could still show some effort.
I agree and I think one of the biggest arguments to support this is the "curse of the first" phenomenon that we've been seeing these playoffs. It's almost like we need that first goal against to get our guys going...and on the other side of the coin, if we get that first goal, we seem to lose our desperation.

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05-02-2012, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
This team...lol. Totally playing as I expected. I'm going to break down what I think the problem is.

Pittsburgh series. No one picked them to win, backs against the wall playing the "better" team. They come out insane, winning the first 3 games, pouring their hearts out every game and winning because of that. So naturally, the pressure lifts a little bit because "Hey, we only need to win 1/4, and we won 3 already." They get embarrassed in game 4, which wakes them up a bit but still not to the point of grave concern. Game 5 they play better but not their best hockey, which completely wakes them up and they absolutely dominate game 6.

Devils series. A week layoff naturally kills the adrenaline, and I believe they're heavily favored to win this series (haven't checked personally, just what I'm hearing). The Flyers, to me, are much better than the Devils (not trying to offend any Devils fans here, just an opinion). So there is much less pressure to win than in the Pitt series because they're expected to win. Game 1, not their best effort but squeak out a win, which I think caused Game 2's result. They simply didn't have the compete level aside from like 12 minutes of game time. They won game 1 not playing a complete game, which naturally decreased the pressure. The desperation wasn't there...always electing for the fancy pass over grinding them out and so on.

I mean I'm sure this can apply to many teams, but there is something about this team that makes them disappear without pressure. They play down to teams, coast, but when pressure hits, they dominate. I think they can beat any team in the NHL in a 7 game series, just need to manage the intensity.

I expect game 3 to either be game 5 of the Pitt series, or game 6. Hoping for game 6 results, obviously. Not concerned about this team one bit, I know they can win this series, just need to actually feel pressure to perform.
I agree all i know is they got the lead last night then they QUIT playing..

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05-02-2012, 11:20 AM
  #24
BleedOrange
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In the 2nd what we didnt get a shot till the last mins..

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05-02-2012, 11:21 AM
  #25
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one things for certain it'll be a early summer with anymore efforts like that..


they better rediscover the inner fire or its golf time for the Fly-boys.


and that would truely suk after all the efforts that preceeded yest.s turd.

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