HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Islanders
Notices

Your opinion where are the Islanders in 2016?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-01-2012, 04:28 PM
  #26
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 28,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19 in a row View Post
This is why I was hoping prior to last season they would make the playoffs for reasons other than just having a successful season. The better they perform on the ice, the more publicity they get, the more fans show up and the more pressure politicians feel to get it done. If they were two time stanley cup champs going into this year, there would be a plan in place by now and a shovel in the ground in the near future. While a Cup is not realistic, a second round appearance could have had a material impact, creating a little bit of a buzz and positive feelings about the teams future.. seems to be helping in Phoenix.
The Yotes 2011-2012 on ice success, has little to do with their still being in in Phoenix.Bettman stubbornly didn't want to lose nhl in that market,going so far as having the league financially prop up the franchise the last few seasons.

Also,the City of Phoenix put up $25m per season,for the last few seasons,to help prop up the franchise.

CREW99AW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2012, 04:42 PM
  #27
19 in a row
Registered User
 
19 in a row's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 1,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
The Yotes 2011-2012 on ice success, has little to do with their still being in in Phoenix.Bettman stubbornly didn't want to lose nhl in that market,going so far as having the league financially prop up the franchise the last few seasons.

Also,the City of Phoenix put up $25m per season,for the last few seasons,to help prop up the franchise.
I admittedly have not followed closely and it may be completely unrelated but there were articles the last few days that the deal is heating up for a new ownership group that will keep them in Glendale. It will cost the city money and after winning it may be the most palatable timing for the area. It may have no bearing at all, but I found the timing of the announcement right after a successful first round interesting.

Potential and likely coincidence but winning can't hurt. Didn't mean to imply more or say it was the sole reason for a Yotes potential deal.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...eal-nears.html

Quotes from Article:

As fans celebrated the Coyotes' most successful season in Arizona, four of seven Glendale council members directed staff to move forward with a deal that could include the city paying a future Coyotes owner $17 million next year to manage the city-owned arena.

Phoenix Coyotes fans say their team is finally getting the attention it deserves.

Their team's success is being celebrated on news shows and in sports columns. Fans of other Phoenix sports teams are buying tickets to Coyotes games.

And fans who have been taunted by relocation rumors for years feel validated. They're cautiously optimistic this could be the year a deal is reached with a new owner who will keep the team in Glendale.


EDIT: Wrong link first time


Last edited by 19 in a row: 05-01-2012 at 05:05 PM.
19 in a row is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2012, 04:42 PM
  #28
Islander Prophet
Registered User
 
Islander Prophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,347
vCash: 500
Quebec City, with season tickets for me

Islander Prophet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2012, 06:41 PM
  #29
Isles75
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 432
vCash: 500
When all is said and done. I think Nassau will remain the Islanders home, be it something new or refurbished. I know some disagree, but to each his own.

But if I had an ideal, God himself intervenes scenario, it would be this: Isles get new arena in Nassau with Charles Wang adding former New York Islanders owner to his personal accomplishments. After all, he regrets buying the Isles and so do I.

Isles75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2012, 08:10 PM
  #30
Isles72
Registered User
 
Isles72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,816
vCash: 500
it was quiet for a long time then BOOM out of nowhere came the new plan last summer which was ultimately voted down.

next time theres a BOOM , hopefully its without hurdles and red tape .

enough already

Isles72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2012, 08:21 PM
  #31
Mr Wentworth
Arch Duke of Raleigh
 
Mr Wentworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 4,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles72 View Post
it was quiet for a long time then BOOM out of nowhere came the new plan last summer which was ultimately voted down.

next time theres a BOOM , hopefully its without hurdles and red tape .

enough already
Seattle and Quebec are clearing out their red tape right now.

Mr Wentworth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2012, 08:45 PM
  #32
leaponover
Registered User
 
leaponover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iskan, S. Korea
Country: South Korea
Posts: 2,411
vCash: 500
I honestly think they will be sold as well. Everyone talks about tradition and the 4 Stanley Cups, but it's 4 Stanley Cups in how many years of existence. They are a long time removed and this is a different Coliseum, Long Island, and economy.

I think no one is going to budge for Wang and he isn't going to patiently wait for the economy to improve like others suggested. He's going to break ties with the team and move on to his next money making goal. I don't think it will be from lacking of trying but he definitely had a vision of what he wanted when he bought this team and he's not going to get it. He will sell unless a miracle is imminent.

As far as where the Isles will go, I have no idea. I don't know about Quebec City, or Seattle, or Kansas City but I know they are chomping at the bit so once the decision is made the sale won't be that hard.

leaponover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2012, 09:28 PM
  #33
ScaredStreit
Registered User
 
ScaredStreit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 4,383
vCash: 61
Quebec City. Outside chance to Kansas City or Vegas.


edit: The only people who care about the 4 cups and the history are on Long Island-and let's face it most people on Long Island don't give a youknowwhat. That WONT protect this team.

It's time to face the facts-Long Island can't support a hockey team in today's economy/market/NHL. This isn't the 70s/80s anymore. There are more viable options for owners. there's many reaons, but those are just the facts. Brooklyn is currently the best chance...and even that's not good.


Last edited by ScaredStreit: 05-01-2012 at 09:34 PM.
ScaredStreit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2012, 09:49 PM
  #34
Steve55
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by denis View Post
I don't think staying in the NVMC a day beyond the end of the lease is even a possibility. Problems in the building go beyond cosmetics. For starters, the ice plant needs to be replaced (or have you missed those giant temporary air conditioners that were installed this year to get the building cool enough so that the ice was borderline usable). The county/SMG won't want to spend the maintenance costs to keep the building operational without a long-term guarantee. My guess is that sometime in the next year, the county puts the property out for RFP, without a requirement that a rink be part of the development, and that the land is sold out from under Wang because the county needs the infusion of money.

Beyond that Brooklyn, for the moment, is the most logical destination. Other than rumors, Suffolk and Queens don't look to have that much interest (unless it's well disguised). Brooklyn has issues, including a funky layout and issues of access (some serious) for some of the existing base. But that 14,500 seat arena (plus additional obstructed seats) can actually generate more ticket income than the NVMC -- even if it is sold out and ticket prices are the same -- thanks to Barclays high number of club (premium) seats. The rest -- access to revenue from the luxury boxes, concessions, advertising, etc. -- is something that has to be worked out. But given that Barclays is also part of the larger Atlantic Yards development that still needs investors; Ratner has shown a willingness to take on partners, as he did with the Nets; and that Wang and Ratner have a friendly relationship, tons of possibilities exist.

As far as moving out of the area, to quote Bettman, at some level, I suppose it is an option. But for that to happen, you need to find a buyer willing to pay for and eat the cable deal, plus cover the likely relocation fee (at least $60 million, going by the Thrashers move). In other words, not just pay over market value, but pay way, way over market value, for that to happen, unless you think Wang will willingly take a huge loss if another lifeboat (Brooklyn) is available to him.
Apparently there have been rumours of Isles talking to Queens council members regarding 3 locations: Citi Field parking lot, next to the Tennis courts and one at Whitestone. On top of Bettman saying Wang is looking at NYC metro options with Brooklyn not being ideal and Nassau not getting their act together, it's safe to say the Isles are looking into Queens. Allegedly the mutual interest between Wang and Queens pols has been exchanged. My guess is after the Wilpons get out of their legal fight with the madoff Trustee Irving Picard, the Isles talks with Queens may get serious.

I heard that Isles had some talks with Suffolk awhile back but nothing more specific. These rumours have been from ************* board.

Steve55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2012, 10:02 PM
  #35
potvins4cups
Registered User
 
potvins4cups's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 904
vCash: 500
I don't know what to think. my heart tells me either wang partners with ratner on atlantic yards project and the islanders move to barclays full time or prokhorov/ratner buy the islanders from wang. but my gut tells me this team will be sold to an out of towner and either moves to quebec, seattle or somewhere in ontario.

potvins4cups is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2012, 10:57 PM
  #36
bigtim1988
veteran user.
 
bigtim1988's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: long island
Country: United States
Posts: 934
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorwood View Post
I want to make this thread different from the others on the topic. Please just state what you think the outcome of the Islanders arena/ownership/location issue will be come 2016. Feel free to give a short post as to the logic behind your analysis of the situation but lets not respond or argue about other opinions. Lets just use this thread to see what others think and why.

I will start.

Sometime in 2015 I think the county and the Islanders will agree on a extension of the current lease for somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 years. I do not think this extension will include any significant renovations to the NVMC or a new arena. Wang will continue to run the team as he currently does. Wang and the county along with the town of Hempstead will continue to "negotiate" the hub development.

Here is the why.

Wang is enamored with the idea of playing developer. He believes that this is the best way to leave a legacy for himself. This is his Stanley Cup.

Wang is currently making a profit on the NY Islanders. The TV deal, the reworked lease and running the team on the cheap, while not bringing in tons of income, does make the Islanders profitable enough for Wang while his development deal pans out.

The county is currently in no financial position to spend dime one on the NVMC or on any part of developing the HUB. Both Wang and Mangano recognize this and decide to wait for better economic times. They also decide to wait and hope for a TOH board that may be more willing to work with them.

So to sum it up the way I see it is basically the status quo, both on and off the ice until at least 2020.
i was thinking the same thing, 5 years might be too much tho, i was thinking extremely short term like 1 or 2 yrs. we have heard "the islanders arent going to stay in that arena past the lease" a million times, but when push comes to shove, they will keep playing there till new arena gets finished.

or we could have a nightmare situation on our hands on our hands, the islanders start to become a contender, move to Quebec in 2016, win the cup the first yr in Quebec and they get the cup they were screwed out of 20 yrs before. that would suck so bad!!

bigtim1988 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2012, 12:51 AM
  #37
Bauer Warrior*
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,183
vCash: 500
33% Nassau

33% New York Metro area

33% Outside of New York Metro area

1% I own them

Bauer Warrior* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2012, 02:03 AM
  #38
blitzkriegs
Registered User
 
blitzkriegs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Beach & Mtn & Island
Posts: 8,819
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
I honestly think they will be sold as well. Everyone talks about tradition and the 4 Stanley Cups, but it's 4 Stanley Cups in how many years of existence. They are a long time removed and this is a different Coliseum, Long Island, and economy.

I think no one is going to budge for Wang and he isn't going to patiently wait for the economy to improve like others suggested. He's going to break ties with the team and move on to his next money making goal. I don't think it will be from lacking of trying but he definitely had a vision of what he wanted when he bought this team and he's not going to get it. He will sell unless a miracle is imminent.

As far as where the Isles will go, I have no idea. I don't know about Quebec City, or Seattle, or Kansas City but I know they are chomping at the bit so once the decision is made the sale won't be that hard.
A majority of the Isles value is attached to the cable deal. Selling the team out of market eliminates that value and puts the onus of the purchaser to compensate for a ghost valuation. Damn right Wang wants to be compensated at the highest amount that includes the cable deal.

Wang is desperate for a legacy. The islanders were his vehicle to make the lighthouse project Happen, which it didn't. Hes too arrogant to sell the team to just get rid of it.

Somehow the Isles will survive and stay in NY metro area. Bettman is being coy and nonchalant about the Brooklyn thing. He has to.

blitzkriegs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2012, 02:59 AM
  #39
OlTimeHockey
Registered User
 
OlTimeHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: home
Country: China
Posts: 15,691
vCash: 500
They spend on a $200M arena overhaul. It happens in 2014, and somehow the taxpayers get screwed despite not having their taxes raised in the plan, but misspending ends up having the reno cost taxpayers, but the county keeps the Coliseum and residual income from it.


And I'll bet Queens never happens. Too many arenas too close for it to make sense. I bet a low cost soccer stadium goes up there.

OlTimeHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2012, 03:14 AM
  #40
BMOK33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,566
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Quebec City. Outside chance to Kansas City or Vegas.


edit: The only people who care about the 4 cups and the history are on Long Island-and let's face it most people on Long Island don't give a youknowwhat. That WONT protect this team.

It's time to face the facts-Long Island can't support a hockey team in today's economy/market/NHL. This isn't the 70s/80s anymore. There are more viable options for owners. there's many reaons, but those are just the facts. Brooklyn is currently the best chance...and even that's not good.
QC is never happening as much as many people think it will. That is just not a sustainable NHL market since the city is so far removed from being even remotely Anglicized, alot of non-French speaking players would not even consider going there and didn't back in the 80s and 90s. I can't see how anything could have changed since then really. They'd have nearly as hard a time drawing FAs as the Islanders do now.

BMOK33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2012, 04:14 AM
  #41
leaponover
Registered User
 
leaponover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iskan, S. Korea
Country: South Korea
Posts: 2,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
A majority of the Isles value is attached to the cable deal. Selling the team out of market eliminates that value and puts the onus of the purchaser to compensate for a ghost valuation. Damn right Wang wants to be compensated at the highest amount that includes the cable deal.

Wang is desperate for a legacy. The islanders were his vehicle to make the lighthouse project Happen, which it didn't. Hes too arrogant to sell the team to just get rid of it.

Somehow the Isles will survive and stay in NY metro area. Bettman is being coy and nonchalant about the Brooklyn thing. He has to.
Guess will see but it's not like there aren't other lucrative cable deals in other areas and I don't think Wang is waking up every morning rolling in billions because of the Isles... if anything they are ulcer producing. I think he may have been arrogant enough to buy the team expecting it to be a gateway into prime real estate but I don't think he's arrogant enough to hold on to a money pit if he sees a way out. We can go back to this thread in 4 years and see what's up

leaponover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2012, 08:43 AM
  #42
blitzkriegs
Registered User
 
blitzkriegs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Beach & Mtn & Island
Posts: 8,819
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
Guess will see but it's not like there aren't other lucrative cable deals in other areas and I don't think Wang is waking up every morning rolling in billions because of the Isles... if anything they are ulcer producing. I think he may have been arrogant enough to buy the team expecting it to be a gateway into prime real estate but I don't think he's arrogant enough to hold on to a money pit if he sees a way out. We can go back to this thread in 4 years and see what's up
Whether the isles are a money pit is truly a mystery and Wang wants to keep it that way.

Somehow the guy was buying up real estate and fixing coliseum leased and funding all the lighthouse marketing/development, yet after more than 10 years you never hear poop whether the guy is on thin ice financially. Which makes one question whether in fact this team has truly sustained the losses that get floated in the media.

A boatload owners/teams have disclosed of financial problems over the years leading leading to ownership changes, yet Wanger is clear from all that for more than a decade? Hmm...

blitzkriegs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2012, 08:47 AM
  #43
OlTimeHockey
Registered User
 
OlTimeHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: home
Country: China
Posts: 15,691
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
Whether the isles are a money pit is truly a mystery and Wang wants to keep it that way.

Somehow the guy was buying up real estate and fixing coliseum leased and funding all the lighthouse marketing/development, yet after more than 10 years you never hear poop whether the guy is on thin ice financially. Which makes one question whether in fact this team has truly sustained the losses that get floated in the media.

A boatload owners/teams have disclosed of financial problems over the years leading leading to ownership changes, yet Wanger is clear from all that for more than a decade? Hmm...
Paper losses =/= money losses.

Remember Neulion, and the Forbes numbers, and so on and so forth. $20M is a lot more than $4-14M. I'm sure he's lost money, but there's a huge difference between $220M and $40-60M (minus whatever Neulion brought in).

Hey, at least he's not in prison.

OlTimeHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2012, 09:22 AM
  #44
Darth Bangkok
Registered User
 
Darth Bangkok's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,533
vCash: 500
Brooklyn.

With a Stanley Cup parade down Flatbush Avenue

Darth Bangkok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2012, 09:24 AM
  #45
Hipster Doofus
Registered User
 
Hipster Doofus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 6,409
vCash: 500
Hard to see anywhere else but Brooklyn at this point.

Hipster Doofus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2012, 11:00 AM
  #46
Dutch Frost
Everything is Fine!!
 
Dutch Frost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 2,573
vCash: 1130
John Tavares is going to be a rock star in Seattle!

There not going to Quebec.

Dutch Frost is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2012, 11:20 AM
  #47
doublechili
Registered User
 
doublechili's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,400
vCash: 600
Brooklyn, with a different owner.

doublechili is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2012, 11:31 AM
  #48
TexMurphyPI
Registered User
 
TexMurphyPI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 122
vCash: 500
Would the NHL force Wang to attempt to make a fair deal (sale of team) with Ratner to keep the Isles in NY as opposed to them moving out of State? I assume an out of state move would happen only if Wang sells the team, I don't see Wang owning the team in Seattle/QC.

Would the NHL cover sale price difference in the deal to keep the team in NY? If Seattle/QC owner was offering $25mill more than Ratner and Wang won't sell for less, would NHL cover the $25mill to keep the team in NY.

Brooklyn is an option to keep the team in NY, maybe not the best option and maybe even the last option, but still better than out of NY for Isles fans, but how about for the NHL?

TexMurphyPI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2012, 12:50 PM
  #49
doublechili
Registered User
 
doublechili's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,400
vCash: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_Hockey_Dude View Post
Would the NHL force Wang to attempt to make a fair deal (sale of team) with Ratner to keep the Isles in NY as opposed to them moving out of State? I assume an out of state move would happen only if Wang sells the team, I don't see Wang owning the team in Seattle/QC.

Would the NHL cover sale price difference in the deal to keep the team in NY? If Seattle/QC owner was offering $25mill more than Ratner and Wang won't sell for less, would NHL cover the $25mill to keep the team in NY.

Brooklyn is an option to keep the team in NY, maybe not the best option and maybe even the last option, but still better than out of NY for Isles fans, but how about for the NHL?
My general thought has been that the NHL may "facilitate" a sale of the team. Remember that they call them franchises. IMO they stay in NY and Wang is not the owner. The LI pols won't cut a deal with Wang - that bridge is burned, I think. A new owner could make LI viable again. But my sneaking suspicion is that, despite recent statements, Bettman and league might like the Isles in Brooklyn. And, also as I've said before, the Brooklyn arena has the distinct advantage over other potential locations of actually, you know, existing.

doublechili is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2012, 12:52 PM
  #50
lorwood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_Hockey_Dude View Post
Would the NHL force Wang to attempt to make a fair deal (sale of team) with Ratner to keep the Isles in NY as opposed to them moving out of State? I assume an out of state move would happen only if Wang sells the team, I don't see Wang owning the team in Seattle/QC.

Would the NHL cover sale price difference in the deal to keep the team in NY? If Seattle/QC owner was offering $25mill more than Ratner and Wang won't sell for less, would NHL cover the $25mill to keep the team in NY.

Brooklyn is an option to keep the team in NY, maybe not the best option and maybe even the last option, but still better than out of NY for Isles fans, but how about for the NHL?
Really trying not to respond as I wanted this thread to be just about individual analysis of the situation but your post brings me to a point I have thought of more than once.

If I purchased a Burger King franchise and then made it more profitable, by raiding the dumpsters of competing Burger Kings for their day old hamburger buns, I should expect to lose my franchise for circumventing the franchise agreement, even though I could argue that I am still selling licensed product

I think this is how Wang runs the New York Islanders and the NHL/Bettman does nothing.

So the NHL is not about to force Wang to sell.

lorwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:17 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.