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Your opinion where are the Islanders in 2016?

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Old
05-02-2012, 12:55 PM
  #51
denis
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Originally Posted by NY_Hockey_Dude View Post
Would the NHL force Wang to attempt to make a fair deal (sale of team) with Ratner to keep the Isles in NY as opposed to them moving out of State? I assume an out of state move would happen only if Wang sells the team, I don't see Wang owning the team in Seattle/QC.

Would the NHL cover sale price difference in the deal to keep the team in NY? If Seattle/QC owner was offering $25mill more than Ratner and Wang won't sell for less, would NHL cover the $25mill to keep the team in NY.

Brooklyn is an option to keep the team in NY, maybe not the best option and maybe even the last option, but still better than out of NY for Isles fans, but how about for the NHL?
An out of area offer would need to be at least $60 million more than an in area offer to be the same, based on the relocation fee charged Atlanta. That along with the cable deal -- around $25 million now, rising to $36 million in 2031 -- will keep them stapled somewhere in NY.

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05-02-2012, 01:10 PM
  #52
Doug Height
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Seattle isn't an option until they build a new arena.

The Sonics just left because they couldn't get a new arena. I don't see any pro team moving there until they revamp Key Arena or build a new one.

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05-02-2012, 01:36 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by lorwood View Post
Really trying not to respond as I wanted this thread to be just about individual analysis of the situation but your post brings me to a point I have thought of more than once.

If I purchased a Burger King franchise and then made it more profitable, by raiding the dumpsters of competing Burger Kings for their day old hamburger buns, I should expect to lose my franchise for circumventing the franchise agreement, even though I could argue that I am still selling licensed product

I think this is how Wang runs the New York Islanders and the NHL/Bettman does nothing.

So the NHL is not about to force Wang to sell.
That's funny that we both mentioned the franchise aspect within minutes, but with different takes. I see your point, but OTOH I think mismanaging a franchise is different than potentially relocating a franchise. If the NHL really wants the Isles to stay in NY, or even if they decide they really want them in Brooklyn specifically, and they have a solid buyer who wants to do it, I think the league would turn the screws to make it happen.

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05-02-2012, 02:04 PM
  #54
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Rangers fan here..but I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on this. If the Islanders do move to Brooklyn eventually, what is everyone's thoughts on re-naming them the Americans? The name has some history to it. The last few years the original Americans were around, they went by the moniker of Brooklyn, although they never actually played there (just practiced there). Again, the name has history to it (even if it's not the Islanders), and it would probably gather the team a lot of attention reviving the old Brooklyn Americans name, and actually PLAYING in Brooklyn. Plus eventually a 3rd jersey honoring the original Amerks would probably be a BIG seller.

Just wanted to get some thoughts.

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05-02-2012, 02:13 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by TonyTheGr8 View Post
Rangers fan here..but I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on this. If the Islanders do move to Brooklyn eventually, what is everyone's thoughts on re-naming them the Americans? The name has some history to it. The last few years the original Americans were around, they went by the moniker of Brooklyn, although they never actually played there (just practiced there). Again, the name has history to it (even if it's not the Islanders), and it would probably gather the team a lot of attention reviving the old Brooklyn Americans name, and actually PLAYING in Brooklyn. Plus eventually a 3rd jersey honoring the original Amerks would probably be a BIG seller.

Just wanted to get some thoughts.
Not a chance.

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Old
05-02-2012, 02:18 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Doug Height View Post
Seattle isn't an option until they build a new arena.

The Sonics just left because they couldn't get a new arena. I don't see any pro team moving there until they revamp Key Arena or build a new one.
If I'm not mistaken Seattle just announced withing the past couple months a new arena deal to be ready for 2015.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyTheGr8 View Post
Rangers fan here..but I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on this. If the Islanders do move to Brooklyn eventually, what is everyone's thoughts on re-naming them the Americans? The name has some history to it. The last few years the original Americans were around, they went by the moniker of Brooklyn, although they never actually played there (just practiced there). Again, the name has history to it (even if it's not the Islanders), and it would probably gather the team a lot of attention reviving the old Brooklyn Americans name, and actually PLAYING in Brooklyn. Plus eventually a 3rd jersey honoring the original Amerks would probably be a BIG seller.

Just wanted to get some thoughts.
I wouldn't like it one bit. I'd probably get over it eventually but I'd be pretty pissed off about it.

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Old
05-02-2012, 02:50 PM
  #57
19 in a row
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyTheGr8 View Post
Rangers fan here..but I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on this. If the Islanders do move to Brooklyn eventually, what is everyone's thoughts on re-naming them the Americans? The name has some history to it. The last few years the original Americans were around, they went by the moniker of Brooklyn, although they never actually played there (just practiced there). Again, the name has history to it (even if it's not the Islanders), and it would probably gather the team a lot of attention reviving the old Brooklyn Americans name, and actually PLAYING in Brooklyn. Plus eventually a 3rd jersey honoring the original Amerks would probably be a BIG seller.

Just wanted to get some thoughts.
If they did that along with the move, to me it would be intentionally cutting all ties with the franchise history and they would no longer be the Islanders in my eyes. In all seriousness, I would most likely stop rooting for them to focus on football and baseball. Would suck for about a season then would just shrug my shoulders and move on. There is no other team I will ever root for in the NHL.

However, i dont think that will happen. It would still be in NY, still geographically on the Island, no need to alienate fans you just moved further away from but would like to keep. The potential Brooklyn base should be motivated enough by getting them without completely disenfranchising what remains of the existing Nassau/Suffolk base. I don't think it would be smart from a marketing perspective.

The Islander name has more history than the American name in hockey, and probably at least a handful more living fans. I think I recall someone saying the American's actually played in Manhattan despite having the Brooklyn name.

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Old
05-02-2012, 03:00 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by 19 in a row View Post
The Islander name has more history than the American name in hockey, and probably at least a handful more living fans. I think I recall someone saying the American's actually played in Manhattan despite having the Brooklyn name.
The Americans were the first occupants of the previous MSG (Not this one) and the owner that started the Rangers (Tex)saw that and was jealous and then there was 2 tenants. The last year they were called the Broooklyn Americans (I guess becuase they were trying to get their own rink in Brooklyn) and then they were gone.

If I remember they called his NY Rangers, Tex's Rangers, not to be confuse with the Texas Rangers baseball team.

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05-02-2012, 03:49 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Pnut View Post
The Americans were the first occupants of the previous MSG (Not this one) and the owner that started the Rangers (Tex)saw that and was jealous and then there was 2 tenants. The last year they were called the Broooklyn Americans (I guess becuase they were trying to get their own rink in Brooklyn) and then they were gone.

If I remember they called his NY Rangers, Tex's Rangers, not to be confuse with the Texas Rangers baseball team.
Thanks. So they did play in Brooklyn, I wasn't sure. Maybe there was some other conflict in name for the Rangers but I doubt it was the MLB baseball team (unless there was some minor league team). The current Texas Rangers were originally the second incarnation of the Washington senators (the first moved to Minnesota to become the twins) and didn't move to Texas until 1972, long after Tex's Rangers hockey in new york. I always thought Tex's Rangers was a play on words with the actual Texas rangers lawmen of the 1800s (the fictional Lone Ranger was originally a Texas Ranger) but never really gave it much thought.

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05-02-2012, 04:17 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Pnut View Post
The Americans were the first occupants of the previous MSG (Not this one) and the owner that started the Rangers (Tex)saw that and was jealous and then there was 2 tenants. The last year they were called the Broooklyn Americans (I guess becuase they were trying to get their own rink in Brooklyn) and then they were gone.

If I remember they called his NY Rangers, Tex's Rangers, not to be confuse with the Texas Rangers baseball team.
Okay, so the Rangers should become the Americans. The Islanders stay the Islanders. The Devils can become the Rangers (since they're closer to Texas).

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05-02-2012, 04:38 PM
  #61
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If they stay anywhere geographically on the island-I think they'd keep the name.

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05-02-2012, 05:32 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by 19 in a row View Post
Thanks. So they did play in Brooklyn, I wasn't sure. Maybe there was some other conflict in name for the Rangers but I doubt it was the MLB baseball team (unless there was some minor league team). The current Texas Rangers were originally the second incarnation of the Washington senators (the first moved to Minnesota to become the twins) and didn't move to Texas until 1972, long after Tex's Rangers hockey in new york. I always thought Tex's Rangers was a play on words with the actual Texas rangers lawmen of the 1800s (the fictional Lone Ranger was originally a Texas Ranger) but never really gave it much thought.
Here it is from Wikipedia (although I used to have a book on it)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Americans
Quote:
At wit's end, (Red)Dutton changed the team's name for the 194142 NHL season to the Brooklyn Americans. He had every intent on moving the team to Brooklyn, but due to a lack of a decent arena, the Brooklyn Americans continued to play their home games in Manhattan at Madison Square Garden while practicing in Brooklyn. They barely survived the season, finishing with a record of 16-29-3. After the season, the Amerks suspended operations for the war's duration. In 1945, a group emerged willing to build a sports arena in Brooklyn, which could house the Americans.[1] However, in 1946, the NHL reneged on promises to reinstate the Amerks and canceled the franchise. Although Dutton had every intention of returning the Amerks to the ice after World War II, NHL records list the Amerks as having "retired" from the league in 1942.
So that is that

then....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tex_Rickard
Quote:
Tex Rickard was awarded an NHL franchise in 1926 to compete with the now-defunct New York Americans. The team was immediately dubbed "Tex's Rangers", and the nickname stuck. "Tex's Rangers" were an immediate success, winning a division title in their first season and the Stanley Cup in their second season.
They won one in 1927-1928 after their first season in 1926-1927
Then they only won 3 more between 1928-1929 and 2011-2012.
Thats 3 out of 84 seasons('33,'40,'94)

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Originally Posted by doublechili View Post
Okay, so the Rangers should become the Americans. The Islanders stay the Islanders. The Devils can become the Rangers (since they're closer to Texas).
I'm all for this.

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Old
05-02-2012, 05:41 PM
  #63
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Islanders will stay in Nassau County.

Either Wang or Nassau will get desperate by the last hour. IMO even after all of the dead proposals, it's shortsighted to say Nassau as an option is dead.

Queens may as well be Dusseldorf. Posting the same articles of speculation from several years ago won't change the fact.

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Old
05-02-2012, 05:51 PM
  #64
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They spend on a $200M arena overhaul. It happens in 2014, and somehow the taxpayers get screwed despite not having their taxes raised in the plan, but misspending ends up having the reno cost taxpayers, but the county keeps the Coliseum and residual income from it.


And I'll bet Queens never happens. Too many arenas too close for it to make sense. I bet a low cost soccer stadium goes up there.
I agree. I may be wrong but I thought I heard that they were going to install new seats in the lower section for the upcoming season. This to me sounds like the first stages of an arena renovation.

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05-02-2012, 06:02 PM
  #65
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This won't go a day past the 2015 deadline. No extensions. None of that crap. Wang won't go for it and Bettman won't allow it.

After seeing the seating chart for Barclay's, Brooklyn is out. Nassau is obviously out. The only chance this team has is Queens and a shovel needs to be in the ground yesterday.

Pessimistic? You bet your ass I am. The writing is on the wall. Nothing is getting done here. Quebec has a new arena ready to go in 2015 and it looks like Seattle will as well.
The team isn't leaving the New York Area. Bettman would never allow it. You are 100% right about the Barclays Center. It cannot work. Queens looks like the most obvious solution

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05-02-2012, 06:27 PM
  #66
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I laugh everytime someone dismisses Barclay's because of the seating chart. I hope the powers that be have more foresight than that.

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05-02-2012, 07:13 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Hipster Doofus View Post
I laugh everytime someone dismisses Barclay's because of the seating chart. I hope the powers that be have more foresight than that.
I know this is a sore point for most and I haven't really followed the Barclay Center situation but most say that if the Isles sold it out every night they'd be 28th in the league in attendance. Is this not fact? If it is, how is it even possible for this arena to be considered as a permanent home?

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05-02-2012, 07:38 PM
  #68
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Arenas often take about 2.5 years to complete these days. Thus, if a Queens arena breaks ground by February 2013, it can be completed by August 2015.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclays_Center

Broke ground March 11, 2010[1]
Opened September 28, 2012 (scheduled)


You do realize that February 2013 is only 9 months from now right? No shot in hell anything gets approved in 9 months in Queens.

I don't understand why people can't grasp the fact that while the lease is up in 2015 the Isles can sign an extension with Nassau for a year or two if need be while a new arena is built there or somewhere else.

The key here is when a DECISION is made on the Isles...And I'm willing to bet no final final final decisions on where the Islanders will play next will be made until 2015.

Please keep your hands inside the vehicle at all times until the end of the ride....

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05-02-2012, 07:40 PM
  #69
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33% Nassau

33% New York Metro area

33% Outside of New York Metro area

1% I own them

I have no idea who you are and I'm rooting for the 1%.

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05-02-2012, 07:57 PM
  #70
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Unless Wang finds a way to keep them on Long Island...they will be the Kansas City Monarchs.

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05-02-2012, 08:30 PM
  #71
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I have no idea who you are and I'm rooting for the 1%.
Thank you for your support!

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05-02-2012, 08:52 PM
  #72
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In Nassau in a modestly refurbished Coliseum. Outside shot at Queens.

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05-02-2012, 09:26 PM
  #73
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I know this is a sore point for most and I haven't really followed the Barclay Center situation but most say that if the Isles sold it out every night they'd be 28th in the league in attendance. Is this not fact? If it is, how is it even possible for this arena to be considered as a permanent home?
You need to take the regular seating capacity totally out of the equation. this isn't 1980 anymore. its all about corporate support. there will be 104 luxury suites and 3000 club seats. both will be more than any other arena out there including the new msg. the nets have already sold all these out. if the islanders do the same, there will be no need to fill the arena to 14,500 capacity because the average cost of a luxury suite in downtown brooklyn which is a few minutes from downtown manhattan will be in the $200,000 to $300,000 per suite range.

if pittsburgh is receiving anywhere between $100,000 to $150,000 for luxury suites at the consol energy center, there is no reason to believe that barclays won't get the $200,000 to $300,000 price tag.

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05-02-2012, 09:56 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by TonyTheGr8 View Post
Rangers fan here..but I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on this. If the Islanders do move to Brooklyn eventually, what is everyone's thoughts on re-naming them the Americans? The name has some history to it. The last few years the original Americans were around, they went by the moniker of Brooklyn, although they never actually played there (just practiced there). Again, the name has history to it (even if it's not the Islanders), and it would probably gather the team a lot of attention reviving the old Brooklyn Americans name, and actually PLAYING in Brooklyn. Plus eventually a 3rd jersey honoring the original Amerks would probably be a BIG seller.

Just wanted to get some thoughts.
Just a small tidbit:

The Isles have a far greater history than the Americans ever had.

Just my take.

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Old
05-02-2012, 10:03 PM
  #75
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I agree. I may be wrong but I thought I heard that they were going to install new seats in the lower section for the upcoming season. This to me sounds like the first stages of an arena renovation.
And that, with the other small improvements to the lockerrooms and such, reduces the price of an arena overhaul.

If they do improvements every year til 2015, what if, WHAT IF, a $200M overhaul (using the cited LHP figure) dropped to $175M? $150M? Hmm....what if they just finished the bowl update by 2015 and decided the County or Wang wouls splurge on the concourse and bathrooms?

Hmm.....


I had another thought today at work......what if, and it's as realistic as Nino winning ROTY, but what if Nassau County put forward a bond to purchase the friggen team?

Would anyone be against this?

Hey, Al D'Amato's brother could be GM! (I kid)

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