HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Vote for Pitkanen on ESPN

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-20-2003, 08:52 PM
  #1
Bennevol10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 445
vCash: 500
Vote for Pitkanen on ESPN

Who is the best player in the NHL 20 years old or youner?

Fleury
Hemsky
Kovalchuk
Nah
Pitkanen

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/

Bennevol10 is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 03:24 AM
  #2
MojoJojo
Registered User
 
MojoJojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 9,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennevol10
Who is the best player in the NHL 20 years old or youner?

Fleury
Hemsky
Kovalchuk
Nash
Pitkanen

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/
Sorry, but Kovalchuk is easily the best of this group, with the possible exception of Fleury.

MojoJojo is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 03:29 AM
  #3
swflyers8*
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Upper Darby, PA
Posts: 2,908
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to swflyers8*
Quote:
Sorry, but Kovalchuk is easily the best of this group, with the possible exception of Fleury.
I don't know about that. Kovalchuk is a great scorer, no questions asked. He doesn't play defense very well. Nash is good as well.

To be honest, I would vote for Pitkanen. He handles the puck very well, makes play that vets would make, plays physical and has a great offensive side to him. I don't think I would add Fleury to this later because he plays a different position than the rest of the guys.

swflyers8* is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 04:22 AM
  #4
Teezax
Registered User
 
Teezax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,352
vCash: 500
well Pitkanen is officially in second place in the poll, i'll take it!

Teezax is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 06:56 AM
  #5
Larry44
FlyersTankNation
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,059
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Sorry, but Kovalchuk is easily the best of this group, with the possible exception of Fleury.
Exactly. Kovy rules. Would Philly or Pitt trade their guy for Kovalchuk, straight up. In a heartbeat. That's all you need to say.

Larry44 is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 06:58 AM
  #6
Quellet The Dogs Out
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 3,118
vCash: 500
Kovalchuk may be a good scorer, but thats about it. He plays no defense, and he is a horrible guy to have in the locker room - a cancer if you ask me.

Nash is probably the best on there, just because this is his second season. Give Pitkanen some time, but I still voted for Pitkanen anyways for the support.

Quellet The Dogs Out is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 07:06 AM
  #7
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quellet The Dogs Out
Kovalchuk may be a good scorer, but thats about it. He plays no defense, and he is a horrible guy to have in the locker room - a cancer if you ask me.
#1. your not in the locker room, so you have no idea what he's like in there.

#2. He's been carrying the team in Heatly's abscense. The guy's a stud.


Does he celebrate too much at times afer a goal? Yes, but that doesn't make him a cancer.

John Flyers Fan is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 09:05 AM
  #8
Gags1288
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quellet The Dogs Out
Kovalchuk may be a good scorer, but thats about it. He plays no defense, and he is a horrible guy to have in the locker room - a cancer if you ask me.

Nash is probably the best on there, just because this is his second season. Give Pitkanen some time, but I still voted for Pitkanen anyways for the support.
I would disgaree completely with your comments on Kovalchuk. His defense is rapidly improving and his fire to win is unmatched. He also is a hell of a playmaker and I believe he'd easily be leading the league in points right now if he had anyone to play with. He's already one of the best players in the league and only getting better. That being said, Pitkanen does have the potential to be just as valuable. #1 d-men are the hardest thing to find and Pitkanen has shown so much that there's no reason to think he couldn't be the best d-man in the world some day. Every vote for Pitkanen (including the one I made, lol) is a homer vote.

Gags1288 is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 03:17 PM
  #9
Liquidrage*
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tallahassee
Posts: 2,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44
Exactly. Kovy rules. Would Philly or Pitt trade their guy for Kovalchuk, straight up. In a heartbeat. That's all you need to say.

I wouldn't trade Pitkanen for Illya straight up in Philly.

Illya is lighting it up. But unless he adds a more to his game he's more of a Sellane or Bure type player. And IMHO those players don't do as much to help teams win in today's NHL.

I'd take one Lidstrom over a Bure in his prime anyday. Bure might make it onto more posters and Sports Center highlights, but Lidstrom did more to help his team win.

I've only seem Illya in a few games, and he didn't look like a total cherry picker, but I still would want the stud blueliner over the finesse forward any day if the Cup is your goal. And Pitkanen has a mean streak to go along with his skill. He's not a finesse defensman. And I'd still take Gaborik over Illya any day of the week. If Illya was in a system that forced him to play defense 1st his numbers would come down. He gets to do what he wants in Atlanta.

Now, if they ever take the instigator back out and teams can protect Illya from not just the hitting come playoff time but the clutch and grab that he will get (if they can catch him to grab him), I'd swing back to take Illya over Pitkanen easily.

Liquidrage* is offline  
Old
11-21-2003, 09:10 PM
  #10
thedjpd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,679
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
I wouldn't trade Pitkanen for Illya straight up in Philly.

Illya is lighting it up. But unless he adds a more to his game he's more of a Sellane or Bure type player. And IMHO those players don't do as much to help teams win in today's NHL.

I'd take one Lidstrom over a Bure in his prime anyday. Bure might make it onto more posters and Sports Center highlights, but Lidstrom did more to help his team win.

I've only seem Illya in a few games, and he didn't look like a total cherry picker, but I still would want the stud blueliner over the finesse forward any day if the Cup is your goal. And Pitkanen has a mean streak to go along with his skill. He's not a finesse defensman. And I'd still take Gaborik over Illya any day of the week. If Illya was in a system that forced him to play defense 1st his numbers would come down. He gets to do what he wants in Atlanta.

Now, if they ever take the instigator back out and teams can protect Illya from not just the hitting come playoff time but the clutch and grab that he will get (if they can catch him to grab him), I'd swing back to take Illya over Pitkanen easily.
One of the most ignorant posts I've read.

I'm a Flyers fan, and a big time Pitkanen fan. I love everything he brings to the table. However, if offered Kovalchuk for Pitkanen straight up, I'd drive him to the airport myself.

thedjpd is offline  
Old
11-22-2003, 04:57 AM
  #11
Liquidrage*
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tallahassee
Posts: 2,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedjpd
One of the most ignorant posts I've read.

I'm a Flyers fan, and a big time Pitkanen fan. I love everything he brings to the table. However, if offered Kovalchuk for Pitkanen straight up, I'd drive him to the airport myself.

Your reply is the most ignorant reply I've read in some time.

Simply dismissing an opinion as ignorant without any rhyme or reason is the epitome of ignorance.

I'd discuss your points myself except you didn't actually make any. I made several. Which ones do you disagree with? Would you rather have the finesse forward over the stud blueliner? Do you belive Illya would have the same number of goals if he played for the Flyers or Wild? There was lots of room for you to make a point, you just decided not to.

And mind you, I voted for Illya. There's no doubt he's the better player right now.

Liquidrage* is offline  
Old
11-22-2003, 06:22 AM
  #12
BrindA17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pa
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BrindA17
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Does he celebrate too much at times afer a goal? Yes, but that doesn't make him a cancer.
I think it's awesome that he goes nuts after a goal. It shows that he cares and that it's important to him to score. I used to hate it when Lindros would never crack a smile after a goal.

BrindA17 is offline  
Old
11-22-2003, 06:37 AM
  #13
Robert Paulson*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Happy Valley
Country: United States
Posts: 5,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindA17
I think it's awesome that he goes nuts after a goal. It shows that he cares and that it's important to him to score.
Yeah, I love it, it shows that he really cares.

Robert Paulson* is offline  
Old
11-22-2003, 06:53 AM
  #14
thedjpd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,679
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
Your reply is the most ignorant reply I've read in some time.

Simply dismissing an opinion as ignorant without any rhyme or reason is the epitome of ignorance.

I'd discuss your points myself except you didn't actually make any. I made several. Which ones do you disagree with? Would you rather have the finesse forward over the stud blueliner? Do you belive Illya would have the same number of goals if he played for the Flyers or Wild? There was lots of room for you to make a point, you just decided not to.

And mind you, I voted for Illya. There's no doubt he's the better player right now.
There's no point in making them, I'm not going to change your mind. Read the 100 or so posts already, and you'll find out that Kovalchuk is nothing like Bure. Only people that don't actually watch him play assume that because he's Russian and skilled, he's like Bure. Kovalchuk has more heart as a 20 year old than Bure ever did. He's already worked to improve his defensive game. His goal is to be the best player in the league; not just one of the better players. He has ambitions that most players don't even care about; they just want their paycheck.

And don't fool yourself. You can't compare Pitkanen to Lidstrom until he actually plays for couple of season. Seriously. Does he have the potential? Sure. Is he there now? Not even close.

The problem with this is Kovalchuk has EVEN MORE TALENT and is ALREADY realizing this. Pitkanen is just on his way, and he doesn't even have as much talent. It's not even close.

thedjpd is offline  
Old
11-22-2003, 07:24 AM
  #15
Liquidrage*
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tallahassee
Posts: 2,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedjpd
There's no point in making them, I'm not going to change your mind. Read the 100 or so posts already, and you'll find out that Kovalchuk is nothing like Bure. Only people that don't actually watch him play assume that because he's Russian and skilled, he's like Bure. Kovalchuk has more heart as a 20 year old than Bure ever did. He's already worked to improve his defensive game. His goal is to be the best player in the league; not just one of the better players. He has ambitions that most players don't even care about; they just want their paycheck.

And don't fool yourself. You can't compare Pitkanen to Lidstrom until he actually plays for couple of season. Seriously. Does he have the potential? Sure. Is he there now? Not even close.

The problem with this is Kovalchuk has EVEN MORE TALENT and is ALREADY realizing this. Pitkanen is just on his way, and he doesn't even have as much talent. It's not even close.
Listen, you need to stop calling people ignorant regardless. You're points are not so mind-blowingly complete as to afford you the luxury of name calling. And you don't use "I'm not going to change your mind" as an excuse for that garbage either. If you don't want to discuss anything don't resort to such garbage either.

I watch over 100 hockey games per year, easily. Probably closer to about 175. Every Flyers game and usually a 4 or 5 games per week, mostly when the Flyers don't play.

Did you see Ilya against Philly this year? He was constantly leaving his own end too early. And when the puck came out of their offensive zone he showed no energy back checking.
Is he as bad as Pavel "One Foot on the Red Line" Bure? No. But I said as much already. But he still isn't a two way player.

Has his defensive improved from last year? A lot of people on these boards claim so. But he's not going to win a Selke anytime soon either.

Ilya has shown he can be a very good goal scorer in Atlanta. He might even be the league MVP so far this year. But he hasn't proven he can do it over a long haul, under different system, etc. He has so much room to freelance in Atlanta, room he wouldn't have in Minn or Philly.
If he was in Philly I could see Hitch drastically reducing his minutes unless he totally bought into the system. And would he buy into the system? I'm not willing to trade Pitkanen to find out. There are too many variables in taking someone so young and switching them to a new team. So you stand pat with what you have, and that's one of the best blueliner prospects.
If I was Atlanta its not as if I would trade Ilya for Pitkanen either. You already know you have a stud forward for your team, you wouldn't trade that for any one player in the league.

Liquidrage* is offline  
Old
11-22-2003, 08:11 AM
  #16
Arastiroth
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Manhattan
Country: United States
Posts: 1,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
Listen, you need to stop calling people ignorant regardless. You're points are not so mind-blowingly complete as to afford you the luxury of name calling. And you don't use "I'm not going to change your mind" as an excuse for that garbage either. If you don't want to discuss anything don't resort to such garbage either.
The reason he said that is you made comments about Kovalchuk that simply aren't true. He plays far better defense then Bure does, and has far better vision and passing abilities then Bure had, and only at 20 years old. It's worse then saying Iginla is like Hejduk. The only thing they have in common is they like to score a lot of goals and can skate fast. He has a lot more desire, courage, and willingness to get hit and hit to make the play. He leads his team, and is one of the most well liked players on the team, as stated by his TEAMMATES. That sounds like the kind of player that will lead one to the cup, if you ask me. I've seen several games with him in it this year, and he has quite a few times been the player that breaks up the play when he back checks. He's starting to learn that by playing defense, you create offensive rushes, and he's been doing that well. He is always waiting for a break out of the zone for a breakaway, but he doesn't give up his defensive responsibilities anymore. He plays pretty frequently on the PK, too, and doesn't do that bad at all, imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
And I'd still take Gaborik over Illya any day of the week. If Illya was in a system that forced him to play defense 1st his numbers would come down. He gets to do what he wants in Atlanta.
You say Kovalchuk hasn't proven it over the long haul, yet, but I'd say he's not any less proven then Gaborik (who you said you would still take any day over Kovalchuk). All Gaborik has really is a great playoff run, that Kovalchuk hasn't got a chance at, yet. Kovalchuk has out played Gaborik when you compare their 1st, 2nd, etc seasons against each other.

He doesn't get to do what he wants in Atlanta. Hartley is a good coach who will make sure his players do what he wants them to do. Hartley doesn't play anything close to the extreme defensive game the Flyers play, but it isn't like it's 80's Oilers style, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
I'd take one Lidstrom over a Bure in his prime anyday.
Yes, of course anyone would, but Kovalchuk is not Bure and Pitkanen is certainly not Lidstrom. Lidstrom is one of the best defensemen of all-time. There are few players who I would take over him over the course of NHL history. I hope Pitkanen can become that good, but I've set my hopes a little lower. Less likely to get disappointed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quellet The Dogs Out
Kovalchuk may be a good scorer, but thats about it. He plays no defense, and he is a horrible guy to have in the locker room - a cancer if you ask me.
That is so incredibly wrong from everything that has come from the Atlanta team. Quotes from the players about him are about how he has inspired the team, how they love his play, about how he gives the team confidence and how he is the (or one of the) best players they have ever played with.

Arastiroth is offline  
Old
11-22-2003, 08:25 AM
  #17
thedjpd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,679
vCash: 500
Quote:
Listen, you need to stop calling people ignorant regardless. You're points are not so mind-blowingly complete as to afford you the luxury of name calling. And you don't use "I'm not going to change your mind" as an excuse for that garbage either. If you don't want to discuss anything don't resort to such garbage either.
I suggest you do the same (as per example in your original response), or else you sound hypocritical (of which I wouldn't be surprised).

Why rant on about a debate that has been discussed over and over again, to prove it to somebody else? If you want it proven so bad, just look at the archives; that's what they are there for.

Your basing your "Bure-like" Kovalchuk on one game against Philly this year. Judging a player on one game... hmm, interesting. There have been a couple of times this year in games where Pitkanen has coughed up the puck repeatedly and just flat sucked (not many, mind you), but what if that was the "only" game of the Flyers I happened to catch? I could say that Pitkanen sucks ass, look at the way he played.

Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions. I've also been browsing these forums for years, albeit not one to post a lot. Whether you believe it or not, you have a tendency to get very emotional. Just relax. Calling your post ignorant doesn't mean that I think you are ignorant.

It's just I don't think you have seen Kovalchuk to know that he has a lot more talent, just pure talent, than Pitkanen. And that's saying a LOT. Combine this talent with his desire, and you have the makings of a TRULY great player. Is he there yet? No, of course not, he's only 20... same age as Pitkanen I might add. If Pitkanen turns out to be half as good as Lidstrom, I'd be thrilled. But Kovalchuk isn't even close to untapping his potential, and is pretty much already a 40 goal scorer. At 20, in these times, that's amazing. Not to mention, he's well on his way to learning the defensive side of the game too (not saying he's good at it yet). I'm not saying he's ever going to be a Selke candidate; in fact, I think in modern days, 2 way players have a tendency to be overrated. You can teach defense, you can't teach offense.

thedjpd is offline  
Old
11-22-2003, 08:30 AM
  #18
Liquidrage*
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tallahassee
Posts: 2,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
You say Kovalchuk hasn't proven it over the long haul, yet, but I'd say he's not any less proven then Gaborik (who you said you would still take any day over Kovalchuk). All Gaborik has really is a great playoff run, that Kovalchuk hasn't got a chance at, yet. Kovalchuk has out played Gaborik when you compare their 1st, 2nd, etc seasons against each other.

He doesn't get to do what he wants in Atlanta. Hartley is a good coach who will make sure his players do what he wants them to do. Hartley doesn't play anything close to the extreme defensive game the Flyers play, but it isn't like it's 80's Oilers style, either.
Gaborik has proven a lot more then just one playoff run. Goborik had back to back 30 goal seasons and 67 and 65 point seasons in one of the most offensively restrictive systems in the NHL.

Ilya is a great goal scorer and to this point nothing more. He isn't a great assist man. He isn't a good defensive player. He's 10th on his team in +/-, and is a -42 for his career.

You should actually watch Ilya play as opposed to just listen to the bandwagon in the NHL forum. His defensive play is not great, I would call it poor still. And the Bure comparisions are still fair. Though as I already said, he's not quite as bad as Bure who was always a total cherry picker.


I'm not trashing Ilya. He's a great player. But not a chance would I trade Pitkanen just to see if Ilya could put up great numbers in a system that would force him to take care in his own end first.

Quote:
The reason he said that is you made comments about Kovalchuk that simply aren't true.
No, that isn't it. The reason he said it is because he's as ass. Even if I said statements that you BELIEVE aren't true (or he believes aren't true), when someone takes the time to make points, you don't just post, "You're ignorant" and leave it at that.


Quote:
He doesn't get to do what he wants in Atlanta. Hartley is a good coach who will make sure his players do what he wants them to do.
And I disgree with you. But don't let that stop you from making unsupported assertions.

Liquidrage* is offline  
Old
11-22-2003, 08:34 AM
  #19
thedjpd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,679
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
No, that isn't it. The reason he said it is because he's as ass. Even if I said statements that you BELIEVE aren't true (or he believes aren't true), when someone takes the time to make points, you don't just post, "You're ignorant" and leave it at that.
Man, you're hilarious.

You jump all over me for calling you names, then you're doing the same thing.

As I stated in my last post, you were being hypocritical; thanks for proving it.

thedjpd is offline  
Old
11-22-2003, 08:40 AM
  #20
Flyman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 921
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Flyman
Just stop to compare Ilya and Joni!! On one side, you have a tremendous and gifted forward. On the other side, you have probably an future Norris winner. How can you compare the two??? They've got each their own qualities to do THEIR jobs!!

Although I am a Pitkänen fan, I voted for Ilya. Just because Joni has yet to prove what he is able to in a FULL season whereas Ilya is not a rookie anymore...

Flyman is offline  
Old
11-22-2003, 08:46 AM
  #21
Big McLargehuge
Moderator
Buff Drinklots
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Germany
Posts: 53,297
vCash: 422
I'll just crack in and say...if any team was offered Kovalchuk for any one player, I don't care who that player is, they'd be stupid to reject it.

That goes for Pitkanen, that goes for Fleury, that goes for Nash, that goes to Peter Forsberg even. Kovalchuk at his age is one of, if not the best player in the sport and is only going to improve.

Big McLargehuge is offline  
Old
11-22-2003, 10:58 AM
  #22
Arastiroth
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Manhattan
Country: United States
Posts: 1,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
Gaborik has proven a lot more then just one playoff run. Goborik had back to back 30 goal seasons and 67 and 65 point seasons in one of the most offensively restrictive systems in the NHL.
I never said that is all Gaborik has proven, I said that's the only thing he has proven that Kovalchuk hasn't. Gaborik wasn't very good defensively his first year. His second year he got better, but last year he was actually quite good I'd say. Kovalchuk in 71 less games has scored 2 more goals then Gaborik. The first year and a half they had Fraser as a coach, and he is simply AWFUL. The worse coach I have EVER seen. The Atlanta team was so out of synch and had just the worse strategies, etc. Since Hartley came over Kovalchuk has flourished, as has the team itself.

Gaborik is also a year older then Kovalchuk, so this year by Kovalchuk should be compared to Gaborik's last year in terms of comparison. Of course, Gaborik still had a better team then Kovalchuk plays on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
Ilya is a great goal scorer and to this point nothing more. He isn't a great assist man. He isn't a good defensive player. He's 10th on his team in +/-, and is a -42 for his career.
He is a very good passer, too. Plus he is acting as, I'd say, a great leader/motivater of his team right now, based on the comments by the team about him, and by watching him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
You should actually watch Ilya play as opposed to just listen to the bandwagon in the NHL forum.
I was one of the first people last year to defend Kovalchuk from the people putting him down last year in many of the Kovalchuk vs Heatley debates about how Kovalchuk had no heart, or how Heatley was so much better (pointed out how extreme the age difference was when most people didn't realize it), etc, etc.. How many times have you seen him play this year? Do you actually watch Thrasher games that much, especially given your opinion of him? I don't watch hockey games at my house, I go to someone else's house and watch there because he has NHL Center Ice. He watches every single Thrasher game for the most part, so when I'm over there that's who I mostly see. I've seen probably 8-10 Thrasher games this season alone, and plenty last year (and the year before, too).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
His defensive play is not great, I would call it poor still. And the Bure comparisions are still fair. Though as I already said, he's not quite as bad as Bure who was always a total cherry picker.
I never said it was great, I said it was getting better, and sometimes he makes some good defensive plays. Bure is 5' 10" 189lbs, and plays a perimeter game for the most part. Kovalchuk is 6' 2" 235 lbs and plays like he is. He doesn't play like a power forward, but he sure isn't afraid to get hit. He passes a lot better then Bure, and has a lot more heart and leadership from everything I've seen and read then Bure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
I'm not trashing Ilya. He's a great player. But not a chance would I trade Pitkanen just to see if Ilya could put up great numbers in a system that would force him to take care in his own end first.
He would probably do fine, as he doesn't strike me as a selfish person. I would trade anyone on the Flyers to get Kovalchuk, but I would try my best to keep Pitkanen because of how special a player he looks to be. If necessary, I would trade him, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
And I disgree with you. But don't let that stop you from making unsupported assertions.
I've backed everything I've said up with comments backed up by reading statements from his teammates, his coach, and from watching him play dozens of times. I find that pretty well supported, imo.

Arastiroth is offline  
Old
11-22-2003, 11:13 AM
  #23
Gags1288
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,354
vCash: 500
I think it's pretty clear, even one's who would argue against trading Pitkanen for Kovalchuk, understand that Kovalchuk is more talented and quite a bit better at this point. I know if the Flyers didn't have a need for puck moving defenseman, i'd do the deal in a second right now because Pitkanen may not become what a lot of us think he will become. However, if Pitkanen does continue to progress at his current pace and becomes the #1 defenseman that he looks like he can be, and becomes one of the best d-men in the league, then I can definately see the argument for not trading him for Ilya. I believe the #1 defenseman is the most important and hardest thing to fill in the league and I don't really believe Detroit would deal Lidstrom for Ilya, St. Louis would deal Pronger, or Vancouver would deal Jovo. If the Flyers are extremely confident in Joni's progression than I can see the argument.

Gags1288 is offline  
Old
11-22-2003, 11:20 AM
  #24
MojoJojo
Registered User
 
MojoJojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 9,351
vCash: 500
Kovalchuk is the type of player right now that can carry an entire team. He is a game breaker pure and simple, who can win games for a team on sheer force of will alone. He is the most dynamic, explosive player in the NHL. Even without playing defense, he is so dangerous teams have to respond to his presence by tightening up their own end.

Pitkanen is great. Probably the hardest thing to get in the NHL is a true # 1 defenseman like Blake or Lindstrom who can play defense as well as put up points. Pitkanen just isnt quite at that level yet. Maybe in a few years he will, but not yet. If we were to trade him for Kovalchuk right now, I would expect that Atlanta would tank, and Philly would become the offensive juggernaught of the East without significantly raising our goals against.

MojoJojo is offline  
Old
11-23-2003, 03:00 AM
  #25
ObeySteve
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Delaware County, PA
Posts: 3,552
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ObeySteve
Even if my vote goes to Pitkanen, there's no debate in the fact that Kovalchuk is the best of the choices.

ObeySteve is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:59 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.