I would trade Pominville. I think his value will never be that high again than it's now. His cap hit is 5.5 and I can't see him toping the season he's had. We could fetch a nice return for him now.
I think its the wrong way selling players under their price just because they've had a bad season (Stafford, Leino, Vanek, Roy). They will bounce back. Pominville's value on the other hand will never be that high again.
If we can sign Parise, I would look for a trade including pominville. If we could make a trade including Pominville for Brown, Getzlaf or Staal I would do the deal in a heartbeat.
I know that he is our captain and you think that this thread is a freakin' joke. But I'm serious. I think it's more intelligent to trade Pominville now than trading Vanek, Stafford or Roy under their price tag.
We could get many valuable prospects/Players in return for Pominville. And with Armia in backhand, I'm really for a Pominville trade.
I think it's rare to trade a captain, less so with Pegula as boss-man. So I don't see it happening.
But I think Brown, Getzlaf, Staal would be great players to get for Pomminville, but each of those players are in the prime of their careers, 2-6 years younger than #29. Contract $$$ values aside, I think BUF would need to sweeten any of those deals based on the age difference / "usable life" of the player coming to BUF. So the sweetener is the question mark in those deals...
I'm OK with a "trade when value is high" philosophy, but I'd still much rather move some of the other names you mention.
I would, however, trade a RW for a center, and I include #21, #26 (Vanek can play RW, and I'd like to see him there for another stint) and #29 on that list. With Armia in the wing (pun intended), the position is deep enough to make a move.
So in summary, though I'd fish elsewhere, I'm not opposed if it happens, but I'd be surprised if it does.
The objective is to keep your good players and get more of them. Not trade them.
The joke used to be that the Sabres were the development team for the rest of the NHL; make good players, then trade them away because they couldn't afford them. I'd rather not go that route.
"How high would Regier have to get to trade Jason Pomniville?"
Mod's, can we get this renamed?
Who has the avatar where Darcy's eyes are half closed and he looks drunk / stoned?
We need that avatar modified to show "Trade Pomminville?" in the comment line under the username.
It depends. Are we going to be a contender this year? Probably not, as we are more than one player away. Other question is what does/has the team needed to be better and harder to play against? A little tougher on the offensive side. Then which team could also use a shakeup?
Pomms had a great year but it wouldn't disappoint me if he were dealt. My comments above are why. Pomms is good, and he could help any team but our team is soft and still lacks leadership, and still needs more of the Rochester Core gone. I'd love a deal around Staal but I think a more practical deal would be:
Pomms
Nashville 1st
For
Bobby Ryan
Quality for quality. Shakes up both teams. Age difference made up by 1st, plus gives Ducks solid two way player. Buffalo gets the gritty power forward they need that is young enough to build around for when they are contenders. Plus, leaves us with only a few Rochester Core left, plus Roy will be dealt soon.
Nobody is untouchable. Pominville isn't in my top tier of guys that I don't want to see moved (Myers, Ennis, Hodgson, Foligno). But, he's in that next tier of guys that I'd want a TON for to move.
But, I'd look to move a lot of guys before I got to Pominville. For instance, if they were to sign Parise, I'd shop Vanek as a winger to move that should get the Sabres a sizable return.
If the Penguins would deal Jordan Staal straight up for Pominville, that would be a deal that I would have to look long and hard at. Although, I'd quickly counter with Vanek for J Staal.
It'd take a really intriguing package. Usually when you trade, you're trying address a weakness. Pominville is a rare strength among a relatively weak forward group. He plays a very well-rounded game, PK, a lot of things our other skilled forwards don't do. Everyone's movable for the right price, but I think you'd basically have to have either a defensive superstar coming back or a significantly better offensive forward. I think it's very unlikely.
Oh, and why isn't this in the Summer moves speculation thread? Not worthy of its own thread.
It depends. Are we going to be a contender this year? Probably not, as we are more than one player away. Other question is what does/has the team needed to be better and harder to play against? A little tougher on the offensive side. Then which team could also use a shakeup?
Pomms had a great year but it wouldn't disappoint me if he were dealt. My comments above are why. Pomms is good, and he could help any team but our team is soft and still lacks leadership, and still needs more of the Rochester Core gone. I'd love a deal around Staal but I think a more practical deal would be:
Pomms
Nashville 1st
For
Bobby Ryan
Quality for quality. Shakes up both teams. Age difference made up by 1st, plus gives Ducks solid two way player. Buffalo gets the gritty power forward they need that is young enough to build around for when they are contenders. Plus, leaves us with only a few Rochester Core left, plus Roy will be dealt soon.
I'm ok with trading Pomms. We need more nasty.
I don't see why the Sabres need to add a 1st to the deal.
They both have similiar cap hits ($5.3M per for JP and $5.1M for BR), Ryan is only under contract for one more season (JP is UFA in '14 & BR is UFA in '15), and their stats over the past 4 seasons are pretty close (BR 249pts in 309GP vs JP 253pts in 319GP).
Ryan is younger. Pominville is more experienced and the team's captain.
Ryan is bigger and more physical, but Pominville is better defensively and blocks more shots.
Ryan is the better goal scorer and Pominville is the better set up guy.
I could see Ryan having slightly more value due to the age/size advantage. But, not enough to warrant adding a 1st rounder to the deal.
I don't see why the Sabres need to add a 1st to the deal.
They both have similiar cap hits ($5.3M per for JP and $5.1M for BR), Ryan is only under contract for one more season (JP is UFA in '14 & BR is UFA in '15), and their stats over the past 4 seasons are pretty close (BR 249pts in 309GP vs JP 253pts in 319GP).
Ryan is younger. Pominville is more experienced and the team's captain.
Ryan is bigger and more physical, but Pominville is better defensively and blocks more shots.
Ryan is the better goal scorer and Pominville is the better set up guy.
I could see Ryan having slightly more value due to the age/size advantage. But, not enough to warrant adding a 1st rounder to the deal.
you dont get players like Ryan by paying "equal/fair value"...
Same with guys like JStaal... gotta start accepting that if you want to acquire these types of players (I DO)... then giving up our "nice" talent (that's gotten us no where) + high end future assets is what it's going to take... and that's probably still not enough.
I would trade the entire "old" Rochester core (van, roy, poms, miller)... along with as many non buffalo prospects as it took ... for Ryan and Jstaal....
Miller, Roy, Nash 1st
for
Ryan, Hiller
Pominville, Adam, Pysyk
for
Staal
Vanek
for
Tuomo Ruutu
Leopold
for
2nd
sign Parise
sign Suter
sign McClement
sign Sulzer
Parise-Staal-Ryan
Leino-CoHo-Ruutu
Foligno-Ennis-Stafford
Gerbe-McClement-Kaleta/McCormick
x Ellis
Nobody is untouchable. Pominville isn't in my top tier of guys that I don't want to see moved (Myers, Ennis, Hodgson, Foligno). But, he's in that next tier of guys that I'd want a TON for to move.
Define a "ton"? I don't think players like Pominville fetch nearly as much as some would think in a trade. 30 year old wingers who average .8 points/game aren't going to fetch a center who has similar point totals. The premiums in the game are on defensemen and centers. Pommer is a good captain with great intangibles so it's not really worth trading him for what would ultimately be a diminishing value.
The only guys who would fetch a good return on this team are: Ennis, Hodgson, Myers, Ehrhoff, and MAYBE Miller.
you dont get players like Ryan by paying "equal/fair value"...
Same with guys like JStaal... gotta start accepting that if you want to acquire these types of players (I DO)... then giving up our "nice" talent (that's gotten us no where) + high end future assets is what it's going to take... and that's probably still not enough.
I would trade the entire "old" Rochester core (van, roy, poms, miller)... along with as many non buffalo prospects as it took ... for Ryan and Jstaal....
Miller, Roy, Nash 1st
for
Ryan, Hiller
Pominville, Adam, Pysyk
for
Staal
Vanek
for
Tuomo Ruutu
Leopold
for
2nd
sign Parise
sign Suter
sign McClement
sign Sulzer
Parise-Staal-Ryan
Leino-CoHo-Ruutu
Foligno-Ennis-Stafford
Gerbe-McClement-Kaleta/McCormick
x Ellis
Suter-Myers
Sulzer-Ehrhoff
Sekera-Regehr
x Weber
yay!
not small
Those two bolded trades make a lot of sense for both teams. I'm not sure Anaheim would bite on the deal they get offered though. Either way, getting Tuomo Ruttu would be a godsend. The man has talent and physicality and is everything Vanek is not in the effort department. Rutherford said he wanted to make a splash this off-season. Let him bring in Vanek and ride the draft class of 2003 to mediocrity!
Pominville is not untouchable, but you're making it sound like we should shop the guy.
His value will never be this high again? This season wasn't a complete anomaly. He's usually good for right around 65 points (10-11 being the exception. Injury-shortened). He scored at a slightly higher pace this year.
Your rationale behind moving him and keeping others is just funny. We should be surrounding our best players with other good players. Not shopping them.
Now if a team were to demand him for a younger player who perhaps plays a more valuable position (Staal, J.), sure. But don't actively shop your best player and captain. Our organization isn't duress like Columbus.
Define a "ton"? I don't think players like Pominville fetch nearly as much as some would think in a trade. 30 year old wingers who average .8 points/game aren't going to fetch a center who has similar point totals. The premiums in the game are on defensemen and centers. Pommer is a good captain with great intangibles so it's not really worth trading him for what would ultimately be a diminishing value.
The only guys who would fetch a good return on this team are: Ennis, Hodgson, Myers, Ehrhoff, and MAYBE Miller.
That's why I wouldn't move Pominville, most likely.
I think he's worth more to the Sabres than other teams.
you dont get players like Ryan by paying "equal/fair value"...
I don't see Bobby Ryan being so good that you get better by overpaying for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
Same with guys like JStaal... gotta start accepting that if you want to acquire these types of players (I DO)... then giving up our "nice" talent (that's gotten us no where) + high end future assets is what it's going to take... and that's probably still not enough.
I would trade the entire "old" Rochester core (van, roy, poms, miller)... along with as many non buffalo prospects as it took ... for Ryan and Jstaal....
Miller, Roy, Nash 1st
for
Ryan, Hiller
Pominville, Adam, Pysyk
for
Staal
Vanek
for
Tuomo Ruutu
Leopold
for
2nd
sign Parise
sign Suter
sign McClement
sign Sulzer
Parise-Staal-Ryan
Leino-CoHo-Ruutu
Foligno-Ennis-Stafford
Gerbe-McClement-Kaleta/McCormick
x Ellis
Suter-Myers
Sulzer-Ehrhoff
Sekera-Regehr
x Weber
yay!
not small
Vanek for Ruutu? Seriously? The cap savings is nice, but Ruutu is a lesser Dustin Brown who costs more. Almost $5M per against the cap for a guy that has averaged less than 20 goals a year over the past four years. No thanks.
I'd try and keep Pominville to play with Staal. I'd likely replace Pominville with Armia as the Pens might not want Pominville's contract.
And IF you need to overpay for BRyan, how does Anaheim ever go for that deal? Hiller is a cheaper Miller and Roy+1st is overpaying for Ryan????
And there is no way the Sabres land Suter AND Parise. Not even in NHL13.
you dont get players like Ryan by paying "equal/fair value"...
Same with guys like JStaal... gotta start accepting that if you want to acquire these types of players (I DO)... then giving up our "nice" talent (that's gotten us no where) + high end future assets is what it's going to take... and that's probably still not enough.
I would trade the entire "old" Rochester core (van, roy, poms, miller)... along with as many non buffalo prospects as it took ... for Ryan and Jstaal....
Miller, Roy, Nash 1st
for
Ryan, Hiller
Pominville, Adam, Pysyk
for
Staal
Vanek
for
Tuomo Ruutu
Leopold
for
2nd
sign Parise
sign Suter
sign McClement
sign Sulzer
Parise-Staal-Ryan
Leino-CoHo-Ruutu
Foligno-Ennis-Stafford
Gerbe-McClement-Kaleta/McCormick
x Ellis
I don't see Bobby Ryan being so good that you get better by overpaying for him.
maybe I overrate Ryan. On this board, it always seems I have a much higher opinion of him. oh well, he IS the type of player that I BELIEVE is going to be sooo good, that overpaying for him is exactly what you do if the opportunity arises.
Quote:
Vanek for Ruutu? Seriously? The cap savings is nice, but Ruutu is a lesser Dustin Brown who costs more. Almost $5M per against the cap for a guy that has averaged less than 20 goals a year over the past four years. No thanks.
yes seriously...Ruutu fits what I would be trying to build... which is a big, strong, nasty team... that has talent. I'm trading small and soft players who have talent, for big, strong players who also have talent. Vanek is soft. Ruutu is not. I'll live with the trade off in talent, if it means building a playoff competitive team.
I also think Vanek is going to be very difficult to move, and it's going to be a trade like this if he is moved
Quote:
I'd try and keep Pominville to play with Staal. I'd likely replace Pominville with Armia as the Pens might not want Pominville's contract.
I'd try to keep Pommer too.... BUT.... if Shero said, I need Pommer, or there is no deal... then im trading Pommer for Staal.
Quote:
And IF you need to overpay for BRyan, how does Anaheim ever go for that deal? Hiller is a cheaper Miller and Roy+1st is overpaying for Ryan????
your probably right... Buffalo doesn't have anything outside of Myers that Anaheim would want for Ryan.
Quote:
And there is no way the Sabres land Suter AND Parise. Not even in NHL13.
