I agree that he's been bad in the playoffs ever since we won the Stanley Cup, but that doesn't mean he's a bad goalie or that he will be bad in the playoffs for the rest of his career.
I don't like the idea that people want him traded. For what? There are better goalies out there but who is going to give up their starting goalie for Fleury? We're not going to get guys like Price, Rinne, Quick, etc. So what's the point?
I agree. He needs a solid back-up that can play 20+ games and either has been a number 1 or has potential to be a number 1. I'm not saying I want someone that will compete with Fleury for number 1 job, but who if Fleury sucks again, can fill in and give us a legitimate shot in a playoff game.
Fleury wasn't that strong the year the team won the cup. In particular being vastly outplayed by Varlamov and giving up his characteristic garbage goals in the first two games of the Finals vs. the Wings.
Fleury was team MVP last year wasn't he? He's not getting traded this year or next. If he cracks again next year and the D was on point than it's plausible. Well it's plausible but not likely.
If he believes in the D he seems to play strong. If you look at half those terrible goals it's because he over committed. He plays out to hide the net but he plays out by sliding 2 feet when he really only needed to move 6inches. Now the play is behind him and he is swinging his arms and legs like a goon.
He has great games when he believes in the D. They play one or two bad games after some stellar performances and this is where you see him steal games. Once it becomes an everyday they play bad he tries too hard.
I agree. He needs a solid back-up that can play 20+ games and either has been a number 1 or has potential to be a number 1. I'm not saying I want someone that will compete with Fleury for number 1 job, but who if Fleury sucks again, can fill in and give us a legitimate shot in a playoff game.
Yeah, I think Shero should look for a solid back up for Fleury this offseason. Who should they go after?
1. Antero Niittymaki
2. Michael Leighton
3. Dan Ellis
4. Tomas Vokoun
5. Scott Clemmensen
6. Ty Conklin
7. Josh Harding
8. Al Montoya
I didn't include Biron because I think he will stay a Ranger, but those are some back up goalie candidates, which one would be the best fit for the Pens?
Yeah, I think Shero should look for a solid back up for Fleury this offseason. Who should they go after?
1. Antero Niittymaki
2. Michael Leighton
3. Dan Ellis
4. Tomas Vokoun
5. Scott Clemmensen
6. Ty Conklin
7. Josh Harding
8. Al Montoya
I didn't include Biron because I think he will stay a Ranger, but those are some back up goalie candidates, which one would be the best fir for the Pens?
I personally like Harding or Vokoun if he'd still sign for 1.5 or under.
Yeah, I think Shero should look for a solid back up for Fleury this offseason. Who should they go after?
1. Antero Niittymaki
2. Michael Leighton
3. Dan Ellis
4. Tomas Vokoun
5. Scott Clemmensen
6. Ty Conklin
7. Josh Harding
8. Al Montoya
I didn't include Biron because I think he will stay a Ranger, but those are some back up goalie candidates, which one would be the best fit for the Pens?
Ellis or Montoya, Vokoun or Harding would be best but they'll want to go someone where they have a chance of being a 1b.
My fantasy scenario that I know will never happen in a million years. It puts a lot of onus on younger players, but I believe they can handle it.
2012-13 Season
Trade
Jordan Staal
FOR
Bobby Ryan
Trade
Paul Martin, Tyler Kennedy, & Ben Lovejoy anywhere that will offer draft picks or prospects in return (Martin will be the hardest to do this with). I just don't want NHL contracts back in return.
Sign
Zach Parise $7M/season
Eric Tangradi $575K/season
Brian Strait $575K/season
Robert Bortuzzo $575K/season
Lineup
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Eric Tangradi ($0.575m) / Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m) / Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Craig Adams ($0.675m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Brian Strait ($0.575m) / Zbynek Michalek ($4.000m)
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.575m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Al Montoya ($0.775m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,481,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $818,333
2013-14 Season
Let Go
Matt Cooke
I'd also say Craig Adams, but I don't want to take the time looking for a 4th line grinder that will be available then. I'm just using him as a placeholder.
Id swap Adams for a guy like Zach Sill.....but seriously that 2013-2014 roster is unreal. Imagine If Orpik is moved, Despres becomes a solid number #2 and Morrow is thrown in there?
One small problem, Dupuis on the 4th line with Tango on the 3rd? Over DB's dead body!
Like I said in the original post it's not that I am saying MAF is not good enough or that we NEED to get rid of him I am simply trying to improve this team and Luongo has proven himself and he may be available, Hamhuis would be an infinite upgrade on Martin and no way would they just take Martin plus TK for him because that is not resolving their problems, helping them replace Luongo is solving their problems so it's a plausible trade. Unlikely but plausible. Heck I still have the hope that Flower can backstop us to the 2013 cup, perhaps all we need is a backup like Conklin or BJ 2010/11 version to take some regular season workload off his shoulders but we really need to look for a physical D upgrade on martin, there is no point having Martin help us in regular season if he is going to sit in the playoffs because he can't hack the physicality.
I know there is always going to be the search for the perfect lineup and so we will always look for another legit top6 winger for Sid but until we find more strength at the back we will not win another cup. If that means we take a chance in the same deal like Luongon or MAF and it backfires i will respect Shero for having the balls to do it....as long as he doesn't go crazy and sign Lovejoy to a 15yr deal while he is at it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik
I just think people are going overboard with this whole "trade Fleury" idea. The guy played one bad playoff series along with the rest of the team.
I think people are forgetting that Fleury is still a pretty good goalie and what we saw in the playoffs isn't what we saw in the regular season. It's not what we saw in the lengthy 2008 and 2009 playoff years.
It's every year. if Fleury is doing bad it's "trade him" but as soon as he starts playing well everyone's all over him saying how good he is.
No wonder why people call Pens fans bandwagon fans.
Id swap Adams for a guy like Zach Sill.....but seriously that 2013-2014 roster is unreal. Imagine If Orpik is moved, Despres becomes a solid number #2 and Morrow is thrown in there?
After that 2014 season we could let Kunitz go, and hopefully we'll have one of our prospects ready to play in the top 6 (and they should be since they've actually been given NHL minutes on the 3rd line). That will free up cap space to sign Letang and Malkin to their raises. Dupuis may be off the books by then as well if they need some more cap space.
Fleury doesn't necessarily need to go, but the pens need to get a solid backup and start getting some young goalies in the system for the future. after Fleury, we have... Pechurskiy... and Thiessen. neither are all that likely to ever even make it to the NHL and stay there, let alone be starters. No goalie depth at all.
I figure if we are going to have Crosby and Malkin on this team, we might as well build around them as much as possible. Don't deny who you are. Have two dynamic scoring lines with every player capable of creating offense on their own, and two grinding lines that are capable of chipping in offense.
Obviously it's a big gamble with putting in so many young players, but I think they are all capable of producing at an acceptable level. Bortuzzo and Strait have been professional players for a number of seasons now, and should be able to transition to the NHL game. Despres has talent coming out of his ass, and Tangradi has shown he can at least play a checking line role up here with us.
The hardest part will be getting rid of Martin, Kennedy, and Lovejoy without bringing on any NHL contracts. If that doesn't happen then this plan will never work.
After that 2014 season we could let Kunitz go, and hopefully we'll have one of our prospects ready to play in the top 6 (and they should be since they've actually been given NHL minutes on the 3rd line). That will free up cap space to sign Letang and Malkin to their raises. Dupuis may be off the books by then as well if they need some more cap space.
Orpik and Letang are both up at the same time. Im thinking most of Orpiks salary goes right to Letang. If Harrington or Sneep make any progress, you could even argue moving Michalek to clear space if absolutely necessary.
From what ive gathered, Morrow isnt just a one dimensional offensive stud, which is really great to hear.
As much as I love those forward lines, MrBurgundy, the defense is significantly worse than one that just got torched (and was one of the main reasons we were eliminated). I would LOVE to see Bobby Ryan or Parise on Sid's wing, but I honestly believe we'd be better server taking that money and going after Suter or Weber.
As much as I love those forward lines, MrBurgundy, the defense is significantly worse than one that just got torched (and was one of the main reasons we were eliminated). I would LOVE to see Bobby Ryan or Parise on Sid's wing, but I honestly believe we'd be better server taking that money and going after Suter or Weber.
It may be worse at first, but I believe it has the potential to be better. That's the problem though. Potential only gets you so far. After what I saw last season though, I'd be willing to roll with it since it couldn't be worse than what I saw.
It's all just a dream scenario anyway that will never happen.
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Dominic Moore ($1.300m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.000m)
Eric Tangradi ($0.850m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Craig Adams ($0.675m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Bryan Allen ($3.300m) / Zbynek Michalek ($4.000m)
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Matt Niskanen ($2.000m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Al Montoya ($0.700m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,781,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $518,333
Parise-Sid-Ryan and Kuni-Geno-Neal rivals the Lemieux-Jagr and Kovy-Straka powerhouse we built in 01. Except the D pairings of Laukkanen-Jonsson, Moran-Kasper, and Ference-Boughner couldnt get it done. Imagine if we had any center depth back then....
It may be worse at first, but I believe it has the potential to be better. That's the problem though. Potential only gets you so far. After what I saw last season though, I'd be willing to roll with it since it couldn't be worse than what I saw.
It's all just a dream scenario anyway that will never happen.
Doesn't really matter anyway, we'd score 7 goals a game.
I dunno about you guys, but I"m going to be following the Blues offseason moves closely. They are in dire need of a legit top pairing D-man outside of Petro. It's become blatantly obvious to the point where it looks like Petro will be playing hurt tonight so they don't go down 3-0 in the series.
They aren't landing Suter. Which leaves Wideman, Carle and Garrison in free agency. All of them are going to command some stupid amount of money approaching 5 mil.
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that we could do a Martin for Stewart swap if the Blues set aside enough salary.
I just noticed that this team is pretty old. I hope some shakeup is made to make it a bit younger at the very least.
If you look at the core group (subtract away drifters like Sullivan and a couple others) we're actually pretty young / right in the wheel house for when we should be winning Cups (at least in terms of age).
Quote:
Originally Posted by GFF
I may get shot down in flames
So:
To Pittsburgh:
Luongo $5333333
Hamhuis $5000000
To Vancouver:
MAF $5000000
Martin $5000000
Kennedy $2000000
Ignoring the rest of your reasoning, I would point out there is at least as good a chance the earth will get hit by a massive asteroid tomorrow, as a trade like this being accepted by VAN. Let's review the simple stuff:
You can easily argue, despite not winning the Cup yet, Luongo is at least AS good, if not better than MAF. However both are mental cases so it's sort of a wash.
Hamhuis better all-around D than Martin? Yes, definitely.
Tyler Kennedy considered a throw-in by any team that's deep enough to contend most years? Yes, definitely.
People WAY over-value TK's worth in trade talks around here. We might get an OK asset for him but by no means would he be the "over the top" factor for a trade another GM was unsure about. "Oh, you'll throw in Tyler Kennedy?! Definitely let's do it then!" << that will never happen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper
We're not trading Fleury. He's our #1 and will be for the foreseeable future. I definitely wouldn't trade him for Luongo.
I was asking this a week or so ago what people though about it. It didn't' get much response (or I must've missed it otherwise). Curious to know why you wouldn't trade him. Is it that you think no matter how good the team he can't win big games or that he's a locker room problem or the duration of his deal (primarily)?
Doesn't really matter anyway, we'd score 7 goals a game.
