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St. John's Ice Caps Inaugural Season Thread.

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04-27-2012, 05:36 PM
  #51
Frankie
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You're right, I would have loved to see the likes of Mckinnon and Gregerenko but in all honesty having the best quality hockey Mile One can accommodate is much more important to me. You can't deny the fact that the AHL is a much more skilled, faster paced league than the Q. The skill level is far superior overall and the players are bigger and faster which makes for better quality hockey.
no question about that. the ahl players are bigger, faster, more skilled. they're also far more structured. they play like robots. there's not much passion. the players' goal is to get out of here.

the junior product is much more exciting. the quality of play of very good, and they play with passion and its all about winning. and you have a much better chance of seeing future nhl superstars.

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Also if you're going to try to make a point about the quality of players in the AHL, why would you bring up a 4th liner and backup goalie? Sure these guys are probably past their primes, but what about guys like Postma and Cormier who will more than likely be playing in the NHL next season? And what about Machacek who showed at the latter part of this season that he his quite capable of keeping up with the guys in the bigs?

There is nothing wrong with you wanting a Junior team as opposed to an AHL team and there is nothing wrong with you having an opinion on the IceCaps as I'm sure you'd like to see them do good much like the rest of us. But if you're going to come up with reasons why we'd be better off with a Junior team rather than an AHL franchise at least come up with a better argument than people wanting to watch "much older has-beens" like Cormier, Postma and another old geezer like Mark Scheifele who we'll have the unfortunate pleasure of watching tomorrow night.
what about guys like cormier and postma? these are great nhl prospects? sure, they'll both likely play in the nhl, but neither is going to be a very good nhl player. cormier will be a 4th line nhler. postma a #5 or 6 defenceman.

this basically confirms my point about the lack of future stars you are likely to see in the ahl. sure scheifele is in st.john's now....after playing in the ohl all season. he'll either be in the nhl next year, or back in the ohl. he won't be in st. john's and is likely to never spend any significant time in the ahl. exactly my point. enjoy the handful of games you might see him this playoff season.

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04-29-2012, 07:36 PM
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So much wrong here it's hard to know where to start. What percentage of CHL players never make either NHL or AHL, well over half I would think. So instead of seeing "has beens" you largely get "never gonna be's". No thanks.

As for seeing future superstars, you may end up with a team that doesn't have any for quite a while. I saw nothing remotely like a superstar when the Fog Devils were here, and that was three seasons.

For the hard working eager kids part, that was the biggest shock with the Q, how lazy most of the players were.

All the Fog Devils did for me was to remind me how much I missed the AHL.

Ymmv

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04-29-2012, 07:53 PM
  #53
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Just a little report on the game four victory of the Crunch on Friday night.

I've been going to hockey games here in the city since I can remember about 1971 or so, and I have never een such an electric atmosphere as last Friday. The fans started the "go Caps go" chants about 15 minutes before the puck dropped. The crowd kept it up even after we went down 2 zip in the first. The crowd was all over Taarki the whole game, sometimes up to five minutes at a time.

There was a pretty good Whiteout, even though the fans had to bring their own shirts.

50-50 prize was 19k+

When Meech scored the overtime winner it was like the roof was going to come off.

Listen to the crowd in this highlight reel

http://stjohnsicecaps.com/highlights...lled-april-26/


Hoping for another Whiteout against Wilkes-Barre on Tuesday

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04-30-2012, 07:28 AM
  #54
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So much wrong here it's hard to know where to start. What percentage of CHL players never make either NHL or AHL, well over half I would think. So instead of seeing "has beens" you largely get "never gonna be's". No thanks.
what exactly is wrong here? yeah, most chl players don't go on to play pro. most ahl players don't go on to the nhl. yes, the level of play in the ahl is higher. that doesn't mean its more exciting or better to watch. its largely boring robots who are dying to get out of st.john's.

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As for seeing future superstars, you may end up with a team that doesn't have any for quite a while. I saw nothing remotely like a superstar when the Fog Devils were here, and that was three seasons.
i saw claude giroux, who might be the best player in the world right now. i saw kris letang. i saw jacob voracek. a year earlier, we would have seen sidney crosby. with a q team now, we'd see nathan mckinnon, though st.john's hockey fans have no idea who he is and wouldn't care to see him.

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For the hard working eager kids part, that was the biggest shock with the Q, how lazy most of the players were.
that's not true at all, but obviously can't be proven either way.

its just weird that st.john's seems to be the only city in canada where the ahl is incredibly popular. everyone else like junior hockey much better. there's a reason we see junior hockey on tv almost weekly, we see the entire memorial cup, and we see the wjc.

the ahl isn't on the radar anywhere.

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04-30-2012, 07:47 AM
  #55
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what exactly is wrong here? yeah, most chl players don't go on to play pro. most ahl players don't go on to the nhl. yes, the level of play in the ahl is higher. that doesn't mean its more exciting or better to watch. its largely boring robots who are dying to get out of st.john's.

Level of play is higher pretty much means it is more exciting. Boring robots?? It hasn't been boring once this season. Players dying to get out of St. John's? How is that different from some fellow playing in Rimouski? You don't think he'd rather be in Montreal, or dare I say St. John's or Binghamton?


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i saw claude giroux, who might be the best player in the world right now. i saw kris letang. i saw jacob voracek. a year earlier, we would have seen sidney crosby. with a q team now, we'd see nathan mckinnon, though st.john's hockey fans have no idea who he is and wouldn't care to see him.
I saw no one in the three years the Fog Devils were here. A fan can't count on having a Crosby or a Schiefele at all.


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its just weird that st.john's seems to be the only city in canada where the ahl is incredibly popular. everyone else like junior hockey much better. there's a reason we see junior hockey on tv almost weekly, we see the entire memorial cup, and we see the wjc.
Frankie keeps fall back on this arguement which basically is, "How come people in St. John's aren't smart enough to recognize how much better the CHL is as a league." He is inferring that other Canadians, and himself of course, are smart enough to get it and we are not.

I am old enough to have recognized a long time ago that Newfoundlanders are different from other Canadians in innumerable ways.

We aren't going to agree on this at all, but I'll sum up by saying that the local fans are voting with their wallets. Frankies preference was rejected by the fans, my preference is being enthusiastically embraced by the community.

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04-30-2012, 02:16 PM
  #56
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Its not that you're going to have a Mackinnon or Crosby on your team, it's that they are in the league and are going to be playing in your rink, giving you a chance to see them. The Fog Devils could have had Bergfors but the Devils rushed him along and it impeded his development. He would have been a superstar in the Q. The Fog Devils also had a young Jake Allen (who dominated the WJC) and Luke Adam who become a star for both Montreal and Cape Breton. A number of high calibre players passed through the city playing for various teams in the Quebec league and gave fans a chance to see them but they chose not to.

As I've said before, I love the junior game but that love came from spending time living in Cape Breton and following the Eagles during their early years. Junior hockey has no following in Newfoundland and likely never will, its a shame. There are two junior B leagues in the province, most people don't know they exist. The general public treated the Fog Devils with about as much respect as either of those junior B teams, which is to say they weren't taken seriously at all.

To Newfoundlanders there is no prestige for the junior game. The Memorial Cup has no meaning, AAA Midget players talk about wanting to get to the Q, not win anything, they just want to get there and get drafted. In other provinces, the CHL championship means something.

We have a strange hockey culture in this province. Other places would prefer to see the up and coming young stars, Newfoundland would rather be as close to the big league as possible. Senior hockey has the biggest following of any level, whereas in most places they play in front of empty rinks. Our junior B teams play in empty stadiums whereas in other provinces, they are the toast of the town, even at that lower level in small communities.

In the longterm, the AHL may not last in St. John's. It's an expensive league, the IceCaps have a high rent and have to pay travel subsidies in addition to some real player salaries. That said, I don't think the Q would work without a second team on the island to alleviate the travel costs so it's not workable either. Be happy you have the AHL and support it to ensure it stays.

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04-30-2012, 07:40 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by IceCapsFanNL View Post
Level of play is higher pretty much means it is more exciting. Boring robots?? It hasn't been boring once this season. Players dying to get out of St. John's? How is that different from some fellow playing in Rimouski? You don't think he'd rather be in Montreal, or dare I say St. John's or Binghamton?
players are dying to get out of the ahl, not st.john's specifically. they're only in the ahl because they couldn't make the parent team. they hope to get called up, they hope to get out of their current situation.

in junior, the players are typically there for 4 years. there's no parent team to be called up to, no parent team calling the shots. that's the difference.

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I saw no one in the three years the Fog Devils were here. A fan can't count on having a Crosby or a Schiefele at all.
you must not have been looking. i listed some of the current nhlers, and some star nhlers, that played here in the q. oddly enough, you could add the jets' current starting goalie to that list.

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Frankie keeps fall back on this arguement which basically is, "How come people in St. John's aren't smart enough to recognize how much better the CHL is as a league." He is inferring that other Canadians, and himself of course, are smart enough to get it and we are not.

I am old enough to have recognized a long time ago that Newfoundlanders are different from other Canadians in innumerable ways.
its not an argument, just a question. clearly, newfoundlanders are different. including their tastes in hockey. i just wonder why. it seems very strange to me, i don't have any explanation for it.

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We aren't going to agree on this at all, but I'll sum up by saying that the local fans are voting with their wallets. Frankies preference was rejected by the fans, my preference is being enthusiastically embraced by the community.
i don't see how anyone could disagree with what you're saying here. 40 straight sellouts tell the story.

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04-30-2012, 07:48 PM
  #58
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Its not that you're going to have a Mackinnon or Crosby on your team, it's that they are in the league and are going to be playing in your rink, giving you a chance to see them. The Fog Devils could have had Bergfors but the Devils rushed him along and it impeded his development. He would have been a superstar in the Q. The Fog Devils also had a young Jake Allen (who dominated the WJC) and Luke Adam who become a star for both Montreal and Cape Breton. A number of high calibre players passed through the city playing for various teams in the Quebec league and gave fans a chance to see them but they chose not to.

As I've said before, I love the junior game but that love came from spending time living in Cape Breton and following the Eagles during their early years. Junior hockey has no following in Newfoundland and likely never will, its a shame. There are two junior B leagues in the province, most people don't know they exist. The general public treated the Fog Devils with about as much respect as either of those junior B teams, which is to say they weren't taken seriously at all.

To Newfoundlanders there is no prestige for the junior game. The Memorial Cup has no meaning, AAA Midget players talk about wanting to get to the Q, not win anything, they just want to get there and get drafted. In other provinces, the CHL championship means something.

We have a strange hockey culture in this province. Other places would prefer to see the up and coming young stars, Newfoundland would rather be as close to the big league as possible. Senior hockey has the biggest following of any level, whereas in most places they play in front of empty rinks. Our junior B teams play in empty stadiums whereas in other provinces, they are the toast of the town, even at that lower level in small communities.
pretty much agree with all this. the senior hockey phenomenon in newfoundland is also very strange. its not on the radar anywhere else in the country, but here in newfoundland, we love it.

someone should do a study on this.

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In the longterm, the AHL may not last in St. John's. It's an expensive league, the IceCaps have a high rent and have to pay travel subsidies in addition to some real player salaries. That said, I don't think the Q would work without a second team on the island to alleviate the travel costs so it's not workable either. Be happy you have the AHL and support it to ensure it stays.
i don't think the ahl will be in st.john's long term. for two reasons....one, danny will have made his money and will be ready to move on to something else. and two, the jets surely have no plans to keep their farm team so far away for the long term. it doesn't make sense for them.

its a perfect short term arrangement for everyone. danny wanted something exciting to do after leaving office, and the jets needed a place for their farm team. the perfect storm.

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04-30-2012, 08:21 PM
  #59
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what exactly is wrong here? yeah, most chl players don't go on to play pro. most ahl players don't go on to the nhl. yes, the level of play in the ahl is higher. that doesn't mean its more exciting or better to watch. its largely boring robots who are dying to get out of st.john's.


i saw claude giroux, who might be the best player in the world right now. i saw kris letang. i saw jacob voracek. a year earlier, we would have seen sidney crosby. with a q team now, we'd see nathan mckinnon, though st.john's hockey fans have no idea who he is and wouldn't care to see him.


that's not true at all, but obviously can't be proven either way.

its just weird that st.john's seems to be the only city in canada where the ahl is incredibly popular. everyone else like junior hockey much better. there's a reason we see junior hockey on tv almost weekly, we see the entire memorial cup, and we see the wjc.

the ahl isn't on the radar anywhere.
Agreed 100 percent and here's another hockey fan in the St. John's Metro Area who would've rathered a Q team as well.

IceCapsFanNL we know the level of play is higher but that doesn't make it more exciting. As for the players that I saw the ones that Frankie mentioned are great examples not to mention Fog Devils expansion cousins Saint John are in the Q finals for the second straight year and we will see a few of their graduates take to the ice tomorrow night at Mile One Centre as Alex Grant, Zach Sill and Simon Despres played for the Sea Dogs. Where were you the night Luke Adam lit up the ice for four goals? I was there. Were you?

Frankie have to disagree about Garth Murray though. Imo he should be wearing the captains C instead of Jaffray. Don't forget too to add the late Luc Bourdon and current IceCap Patrice Cormier to the list that we saw when they were in the Q.


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04-30-2012, 09:22 PM
  #60
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its just weird that st.john's seems to be the only city in canada where the ahl is incredibly popular.

the ahl isn't on the radar anywhere.
Manitoba was pretty happy with the AHL while they had it. They were always in the top 3 in attendance. Seemed pretty popular there.

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in junior, the players are typically there for 4 years. there's no parent team to be called up to, no parent team calling the shots. that's the difference.
They are there for four years because they can't play in the AHL, not because they necessarily want to be in the CHL. I'd bet any of those guys would take a job in the AHL in a heartbeat over a CHL team if they were given the choice. At the very least, they would make more money in the AHL.

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you must not have been looking. i listed some of the current nhlers, and some star nhlers, that played here in the q. oddly enough, you could add the jets' current starting goalie to that list.
Who you could also have seen in the AHL for a couple seasons. Along with Kari Lehtonen, Braydon Coburn, MA Fleury, Max Talbot, Pecca Rinne, Claude Giroux, and whole host of other future NHL'ers. What's your point?

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04-30-2012, 09:45 PM
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And what about all the guys who dominated the Q, like Yannick Riendeau for example, who can't even crack an AHL lineup, even on bad teams?

Sorry, but watching 20 year olds and a couple future stars skate rings around high schoolers has it's drawbacks too.

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05-01-2012, 07:25 AM
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Manitoba was pretty happy with the AHL while they had it. They were always in the top 3 in attendance. Seemed pretty popular there.
they were stuck with the ahl. they didn't want it. winnipeg has such great fans that they supported their ahl team, but they never wanted it. as soon as they had the chance to move on, they did.

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They are there for four years because they can't play in the AHL, not because they necessarily want to be in the CHL. I'd bet any of those guys would take a job in the AHL in a heartbeat over a CHL team if they were given the choice. At the very least, they would make more money in the AHL.
yes, the rules are such that chl players are there for 4 years. that was my point. i think that's a good thing. of course anyone would want to make a lot more money if they could.

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Who you could also have seen in the AHL for a couple seasons. Along with Kari Lehtonen, Braydon Coburn, MA Fleury, Max Talbot, Pecca Rinne, Claude Giroux, and whole host of other future NHL'ers. What's your point?
the point is you're much more likely to see future nhl superstars in the chl. the eilte players skip the ahl altogether.

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05-01-2012, 09:18 AM
  #63
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the point is you're much more likely to see future nhl superstars in the chl. the eilte players skip the ahl altogether.

You MAY see future NHL superstars. Some of the others might make ECHL, AHL, some might even be marginal NHL players. The majority are at the highest level they will ever make.

Not willing to have to sit through all of the other games to catch a glimpse of a future superstar as an 18 year old.

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05-03-2012, 05:51 PM
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TNSE is all about drafting well and developing players, Scheifele is in St Johns for the playoff run with the Ice Caps...and i have to think most of our top prospects will spend time in St Johns before Winnipeg.

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05-03-2012, 08:28 PM
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To me Schiefle wasn't that impressive. Imo Zach O'Brien did just as well or better in the few games that he played with the team the past two weeks. And to not have players like O'Dell and Clark in the playoff lineup even though they played with the team the whole year and did a great job just because Winnipeg wants their star draft pick to play? That's one of the many reasons I'd rather a CHL team over an AHL one any day. With a CHL team at least for the most part your roster is set for the season and the GM gets to have the team that he wants because the scouts report directly to him and they do the drafting themselves. With an AHL team there's not much for the GM to do because all the work is done by the parent team and the AHL team is at their mercy.

GarbageGoal I would be willing to bet that you have never seen a CHL game because those players could skate rings around high schoolers.

IceCapsFanNL Claude Giroux spent all of 33 games in the AHL and has been with Philadelphia ever since; Letang spent 11 games with Wilkes-Barre/Scranton and has patrolled the Pittsburgh blueline ever since; Voracek went right from Halifax to Columbus; Fleury played a total of 12 games in WBS and has been with Pittsburgh ever since. St. John’s best player Paul Postma has now spent three seasons in the AHL with four—count them—four NHL games under his belt. Ditto for Cormier too—30 NHL games in three pro seasons. Both of them will not be the star players on their NHL teams than the others mentioned.

When St. John’s played Syracuse last week the best two NHL star prospects on the ice were not IceCaps because Emerson Etem and Kyle Palmieri were star NHLers in an AHL game.

I hope the fans in Saint John appreciate that wonderful team they have because I sure wish that was us in St. John's.


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05-03-2012, 08:49 PM
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GarbageGoal I would be willing to bet that you have never seen a CHL game because those players could skate rings around high schoolers.
Nope, I admit I've not gotten to a junior game yet (almost got to Erie for a game in March but plans got changed), but I use high schoolers as a relative term to age not skill. Ask many pro scouts about undrafted overage guys playing in juniors and they will use the same phrase quite a bit. When they play against men, the dominance almost always ends.

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05-03-2012, 10:19 PM
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they were stuck with the ahl. they didn't want it. winnipeg has such great fans that they supported their ahl team, but they never wanted it. as soon as they had the chance to move on, they did.

the point is you're much more likely to see future nhl superstars in the chl. the eilte players skip the ahl altogether.

As for point #1: What?? You keep the AHL over the NHL? Uh...who wouldn't jump at that chance to move on?
The guys who rabidly follow the prospects, and the people resenting going from competing with Vancouver to being their farm club would be the ones who would have preferred the WHL over the AHL. Being from Winnipeg, I have a hard time seeing a WHL team doing better than the Moose did in the same circumstances.

Point #2: True enough.

I never believed more exciting=better quality. The CFL can certainly be more exciting more often than the NFL, but a lot of the excitement comes from broken, sloppy play. I see the AHL and CHL having a similar dynamic. If you're emotionally invested enough in your team, two sides playing the trap against each other can be pretty darned exciting.

The biggest issue the AHL has, is none of the fans know anything about the opponent or its players, it's a continental league filled with second cities or suburbs of large metro areas so it's missing that extra level for rivalries. People in Binghamton know nothing of Abbotsford, people in Abbotsford aren't necessarily sure whether Manchester is in New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, Massachusetts or England. Portland? I thought that was in Oregon. What do you mean there are two teams named 'Admirals'? What's the difference between Saint John and St. John's? It's that much harder to get excited for a game against an opponent you know nothing about. That was easily the biggest thing I didn't like about the AHL. Plus the AHL being second tier, it doesn't garner the coverage in the local papers versus the other sports options, especially in larger cities. Cleveland newspapers are supposed to divert pages from the Browns, Cavs and Indians to the Lake Erie Monsters? The CHL has no such issue. You'll learn about your opponent in your small town rag (I know plenty about the MJHL Selkirk Steelers thanks to those papers), you'll remember the players from the World Juniors. You get teams from comparable sized towns/small cities in your own part of the world, so there's that connection that is lacking.


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05-03-2012, 10:48 PM
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As for point #1: What?? You keep the AHL over the NHL? Uh...who wouldn't jump at that chance to move on?
The guys who rabidly follow the prospects, and the people resenting going from competing with Vancouver to being their farm club would be the ones who would have preferred the WHL over the AHL. Being from Winnipeg, I have a hard time seeing a WHL team doing better than the Moose did in the same circumstances.

Point #2: True enough.

I never believed more exciting=better quality. The CFL can certainly be more exciting more often than the NFL, but a lot of the excitement comes from broken, sloppy play. I see the AHL and CHL having a similar dynamic. If you're emotionally invested enough in your team, two sides playing the trap against each other can be pretty darned exciting.

The biggest issue the AHL has, is none of the fans know anything about the opponent or its players, it's a continental league filled with second cities or suburbs of large metro areas so it's missing that extra level for rivalries. People in Binghamton know nothing of Abbotsford, people in Abbotsford aren't necessarily sure whether Manchester is in New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, Massachusetts or England. Portland? I thought that was in Oregon. What do you mean there are two teams named 'Admirals'? What's the difference between Saint John and St. John's? It's that much harder to get excited for a game against an opponent you know nothing about. That was easily the biggest thing I didn't like about the AHL. Plus the AHL being second tier, it doesn't garner the coverage in the local papers versus the other sports options, especially in larger cities. Cleveland newspapers are supposed to divert pages from the Browns, Cavs and Indians to the Lake Erie Monsters? The CHL has no such issue. You'll learn about your opponent in your small town rag (I know plenty about the MJHL Selkirk Steelers thanks to those papers), you'll remember the players from the World Juniors. You get teams from comparable sized towns/small cities in your own part of the world, so there's that connection that is lacking.
I know about the other teams in Milwaukee's conference. I follow websites for Chicago, Houston and Rochester. The Admirals didn't play the Amerks this year, again. We went to one game last year and the year before at the Blue Cross Arena in Rochester. It was interesting seeing all of the banners. I peak at Peoria, Texas and OKC werbsites sometimes. I listen in on the PPPS and caught a few games on the NHL Network, seeing Manchester and Portland. The Eastern is a bit of a mystery to me, but I am better at geography than most people in the US. I get confused between Saint John and St. John's, even though I should not. I never heard of Abbotsford before they joined the AHL. My wife's family is from upstate NY. Some of them seem to think that we are still fighting the Indians out here in Wisconsin and don't realize that we are 90 miles from the Loop in Chicago or 60 miles from O'Hare.

You are correct on the newspaper coverage. The Milwaukee paper is literally around the corner from the Bradley Center. But what do you see? A big story or two about what players the Green Bay Packers might take in the NFL draft. A little filler story about Milwaukee winning a game way down yonder in San Antonio. The Bucks snatch defeat from the jaws of victory for the sixth game in a row. The Brewers 5th starter blows out his rotator cuff in his third start of the season. NASCAR had a 28 car wreck. A driver with a name that I can't spell or pronounce wins the Indy 500.

I was in Indy about 12 years ago. The newspaper had an entire page of hockey coverage on a Sunday. If the MJS had that, I would probably have a heart attack. IHL, AHL, NHL, Central league, scores, game summaries and standings. It was like heaven. I find better hockey coverage in the USA Today than in Milwaukee. No wonder that the newspapers are dying.

Congrats to St John's and hang in there!


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05-03-2012, 11:28 PM
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players are dying to get out of the ahl, not st.john's specifically. they're only in the ahl because they couldn't make the parent team. they hope to get called up, they hope to get out of their current situation.

in junior, the players are typically there for 4 years. there's no parent team to be called up to, no parent team calling the shots. that's the difference.


you must not have been looking. i listed some of the current nhlers, and some star nhlers, that played here in the q. oddly enough, you could add the jets' current starting goalie to that list.


its not an argument, just a question. clearly, newfoundlanders are different. including their tastes in hockey. i just wonder why. it seems very strange to me, i don't have any explanation for it.


i don't see how anyone could disagree with what you're saying here. 40 straight sellouts tell the story.
I'm not really understanding what point you're trying to make with the first bolded statement. I can't argue the fact that AHL players would rather be playing in the NHL and want to get up there as soon as possible because that should be every AHL player's goal IMO. So are you trying to say that just because they don't want to be here and just because they never made the parent club that they're gonna sulk all year and not work as hard as they should? If so then I really think you're got it all wrong. Just think about it for a minute. If you're stuck playing in the AHL and really want to make the NHL then how would you go about trying to make the parent club? I don't know about you but I know if that were me, and i'm sure these players are in the same boat, I would work my butt off every practice and every game and I would come to the arena with the best attitude I possibly could and try to make the best impression possible. If most players on every team in the AHL has this same attitude, which from what i've seen is the case, then you're gonna see some pretty damn good quality hockey.

With respect to the second bolded statement, the only explanation I can give for this is that most Newfoundlanders, including myself, would just rather watch the next best league, with regards to quality of play, that we can get here. Like I said before, I would love to have seen the Crosby's, Giroux's and Letang's playing at Mile One but I'd much rather see an overall faster more skilled game like we have here now with the Icecaps. I don't know why this is so strange to you.

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05-03-2012, 11:44 PM
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To me Schiefle wasn't that impressive. Imo Zach O'Brien did just as well or better in the few games that he played with the team the past two weeks. And to not have players like O'Dell and Clark in the playoff lineup even though they played with the team the whole year and did a great job just because Winnipeg wants their star draft pick to play? That's one of the many reasons I'd rather a CHL team over an AHL one any day. With a CHL team at least for the most part your roster is set for the season and the GM gets to have the team that he wants because the scouts report directly to him and they do the drafting themselves. With an AHL team there's not much for the GM to do because all the work is done by the parent team and the AHL team is at their mercy.

GarbageGoal I would be willing to bet that you have never seen a CHL game because those players could skate rings around high schoolers.

IceCapsFanNL Claude Giroux spent all of 33 games in the AHL and has been with Philadelphia ever since; Letang spent 11 games with Wilkes-Barre/Scranton and has patrolled the Pittsburgh blueline ever since; Voracek went right from Halifax to Columbus; Fleury played a total of 12 games in WBS and has been with Pittsburgh ever since. St. John’s best player Paul Postma has now spent three seasons in the AHL with four—count them—four NHL games under his belt. Ditto for Cormier too—30 NHL games in three pro seasons. Both of them will not be the star players on their NHL teams than the others mentioned.

When St. John’s played Syracuse last week the best two NHL star prospects on the ice were not IceCaps because Emerson Etem and Kyle Palmieri were star NHLers in an AHL game.

I hope the fans in Saint John appreciate that wonderful team they have because I sure wish that was us in St. John's.
I'm not sure what games you were watching but IMO Scheifele was one of our better forwards in the last couple of games he played. He was great on the faceoffs, created plenty of scoring chances , was dependable in his own end and even showed decent creativity and soft hands which I didn't know he had. The only con I noticed is that he never used his size to his advantage as much as I would have liked but I guess that's just not a big part of his game. Sure he hasn't put many points on the board but I think if he had to play here all season he would be one of, if not, the Icecaps highest scorers. Also didn't Zach O'brien play just one game with St. John's this year? He couldn't have impressed too much if he's no longer even with the team.

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05-04-2012, 07:00 AM
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As for point #1: What?? You keep the AHL over the NHL? Uh...who wouldn't jump at that chance to move on?
veeryone would want to move on. that was my point. winnipeg was stuck with an ahl team, it wasn't what they wanted. its an nhl city that always had its eye on an nhl team.

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Point #2: True enough.

I never believed more exciting=better quality. The CFL can certainly be more exciting more often than the NFL, but a lot of the excitement comes from broken, sloppy play. I see the AHL and CHL having a similar dynamic. If you're emotionally invested enough in your team, two sides playing the trap against each other can be pretty darned exciting.

The biggest issue the AHL has, is none of the fans know anything about the opponent or its players, it's a continental league filled with second cities or suburbs of large metro areas so it's missing that extra level for rivalries. People in Binghamton know nothing of Abbotsford, people in Abbotsford aren't necessarily sure whether Manchester is in New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, Massachusetts or England. Portland? I thought that was in Oregon. What do you mean there are two teams named 'Admirals'? What's the difference between Saint John and St. John's? It's that much harder to get excited for a game against an opponent you know nothing about. That was easily the biggest thing I didn't like about the AHL. Plus the AHL being second tier, it doesn't garner the coverage in the local papers versus the other sports options, especially in larger cities. Cleveland newspapers are supposed to divert pages from the Browns, Cavs and Indians to the Lake Erie Monsters? The CHL has no such issue. You'll learn about your opponent in your small town rag (I know plenty about the MJHL Selkirk Steelers thanks to those papers), you'll remember the players from the World Juniors. You get teams from comparable sized towns/small cities in your own part of the world, so there's that connection that is lacking.
pretty much agree with all this. there are no rivalries in the ahl. certainly not for st.john's.

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05-04-2012, 07:05 AM
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To me Schiefle wasn't that impressive. Imo Zach O'Brien did just as well or better in the few games that he played with the team the past two weeks. And to not have players like O'Dell and Clark in the playoff lineup even though they played with the team the whole year and did a great job just because Winnipeg wants their star draft pick to play? That's one of the many reasons I'd rather a CHL team over an AHL one any day. With a CHL team at least for the most part your roster is set for the season and the GM gets to have the team that he wants because the scouts report directly to him and they do the drafting themselves. With an AHL team there's not much for the GM to do because all the work is done by the parent team and the AHL team is at their mercy.

GarbageGoal I would be willing to bet that you have never seen a CHL game because those players could skate rings around high schoolers.

IceCapsFanNL Claude Giroux spent all of 33 games in the AHL and has been with Philadelphia ever since; Letang spent 11 games with Wilkes-Barre/Scranton and has patrolled the Pittsburgh blueline ever since; Voracek went right from Halifax to Columbus; Fleury played a total of 12 games in WBS and has been with Pittsburgh ever since. St. John’s best player Paul Postma has now spent three seasons in the AHL with four—count them—four NHL games under his belt. Ditto for Cormier too—30 NHL games in three pro seasons. Both of them will not be the star players on their NHL teams than the others mentioned.

When St. John’s played Syracuse last week the best two NHL star prospects on the ice were not IceCaps because Emerson Etem and Kyle Palmieri were star NHLers in an AHL game.

I hope the fans in Saint John appreciate that wonderful team they have because I sure wish that was us in St. John's.

For all of our Winnipeg fans out there, it should be remembered that these opinions are very much in the minority.

IIRC there were a few people in the "Peg who wanted to "save the Moose." Nothing will be universally popular.

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05-04-2012, 07:11 AM
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I'm not really understanding what point you're trying to make with the first bolded statement. I can't argue the fact that AHL players would rather be playing in the NHL and want to get up there as soon as possible because that should be every AHL player's goal IMO. So are you trying to say that just because they don't want to be here and just because they never made the parent club that they're gonna sulk all year and not work as hard as they should? If so then I really think you're got it all wrong. Just think about it for a minute. If you're stuck playing in the AHL and really want to make the NHL then how would you go about trying to make the parent club? I don't know about you but I know if that were me, and i'm sure these players are in the same boat, I would work my butt off every practice and every game and I would come to the arena with the best attitude I possibly could and try to make the best impression possible. If most players on every team in the AHL has this same attitude, which from what i've seen is the case, then you're gonna see some pretty damn good quality hockey.
yeah, in theory they should be working their hardest to get out and make more money. i suppose most do, most of the time. although there are a lot of boring, passionless games in the ahl.

i found the junior aged players played for the love of the game moreso than ahlers do. they have an attachment to the community they play in. the ahlers don't. none of these current icecaps care anything about winning for the fans in st.john's. they're just trying to work their way out.

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With respect to the second bolded statement, the only explanation I can give for this is that most Newfoundlanders, including myself, would just rather watch the next best league, with regards to quality of play, that we can get here. Like I said before, I would love to have seen the Crosby's, Giroux's and Letang's playing at Mile One but I'd much rather see an overall faster more skilled game like we have here now with the Icecaps. I don't know why this is so strange to you.
its strange in that newfoundlanders are apparently the only canadians who think this way. just as a couple of examples, bigger cities like halifax and quebec city much prefer junior hockey. the ahl failed on both places, and the qmjhl has thrived in both cities for years.

i just don't know why newfoundlanders are so drastically different in their tastes of hockey.

why do we see so much junior hockey on national tv, yet we see absolutely no ahl hockey at all? if it makes so much sense to want to see the highest quality hockey we can see, wouldn't sportsnet be showing ahl games instead of junior games?

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05-04-2012, 08:33 AM
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veeryone would want to move on. that was my point. winnipeg was stuck with an ahl team, it wasn't what they wanted. its an nhl city that always had its eye on an nhl team.


pretty much agree with all this. there are no rivalries in the ahl. certainly not for st.john's.

I am not a big poster in this forum, but I do disagree with this bolded part. The Hershey Bears and Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins have a rivalry. Ever since Wilkes-Barre/Scranton rejoined the league, these two teams have been rivals. There are rivalries. For St. John's not yet. It will come.

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05-04-2012, 11:46 AM
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its strange in that newfoundlanders are apparently the only canadians who think this way. just as a couple of examples, bigger cities like halifax and quebec city much prefer junior hockey. the ahl failed on both places, and the qmjhl has thrived in both cities for years.

i just don't know why newfoundlanders are so drastically different in their tastes of hockey.

why do we see so much junior hockey on national tv, yet we see absolutely no ahl hockey at all? if it makes so much sense to want to see the highest quality hockey we can see, wouldn't sportsnet be showing ahl games instead of junior games?
This is Frankies most common theme. Basically he is saying that the rest of Canada "gets it" about the CHL and AHL, and by inference we must be somehow wrong headed to prefer the AHL here in St. John's. There is a sense of self-superiority in Frankies posts as he of course in his own mind, "gets it".

It has to be tough realizing that a large majority of your fellow hockey fans reject your preference.

Do I have to post those Fog Devils attendances again?

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