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The FAN 1200 - Pierre McGuire - 3rd overall vs J. Staal??

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Old
05-03-2012, 09:50 PM
  #201
29dryden29
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I would take Staal no questions asked for the third in a draft with arguably nothing really decent up front but some good D prospects like say Griffin Reinhart.

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05-03-2012, 09:52 PM
  #202
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I would pass. Staal is a great player, but he won't elevate this team. We already have Plekanec fulfilling a similar role (without the size, mind you). The prospect we can get from our pick has the potential of being far better than Staal.

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05-03-2012, 09:59 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
I would pass. Staal is a great player, but he won't elevate this team. We already have Plekanec fulfilling a similar role (without the size, mind you). The prospect we can get from our pick has the potential of being far better than Staal.
And our 3rd will?

This team would be a lot better with staal on it.

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05-03-2012, 10:05 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
If you honestly think Staal will make us a winner as of next yr you're deluding yourself. Pittsburgh had Staal AND Malkin AND Crosby but could't make it past the first round. Yet some people think that he'll make the 28th place Canadiens and contender as of next yr. It's insane.
Do you watch the games at all? The issue with Pittsburgh wasn't their scoring. It was their D and their piss poor goaltending.

No one is saying Staal would make the team a contender next year, but he will solidify a huge hole the Habs have had for many years. Staal, Pleks/DD and Eller down the middle is a wet dream to me. That's true depth.

I find it funny how Staal won't elevate this team, but Forsberg and Galyenchuck will? They're bigger unknowns than Staal and are further away. They also come with question marks. We're not talking about a Hall or Nugent-Hopkins can't miss prospect here.

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05-04-2012, 12:30 AM
  #205
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I'd trade our pick for Staal with a contract extension any day of the week. I am surprised that apparently at 23 years old you have already reached your upside according to some posters here. It is incredible to see that a big two-way center who was on a 33-33-66 pace getting secondary powerplay time and playing with average wingers is, according to some, a 50-60 points player. Did I mention he is only 23 years old?

Staal's already an elite two-way second line center with some upside remaining and apparently whoever we pick: galchenyuk, forsberg or grigorenko, they are locks to be better than Staal and that's why we shouldn't make that trade. I disagree. I agree with those who are saying if we can't sign him, we shouldn't trade for him because the time frame we would have him isn't big enough. Salary shouldn't be a concern if we shell out 6 million for cammalleri, we should be able to give staal's a good contract that would make both sides happy.

I prefer having a big elite second line center with upside who is only 23 years old with a contract extension than having a SHOT of MAYBE drafting someone who MAYBE will be better offensively than staal.

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05-04-2012, 01:47 AM
  #206
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Why would Staal agree to sign an extension ?

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05-04-2012, 01:55 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Pine View Post
DD gets the boot if Staal comes.

But I don't know if I want Staal or multiple years (including 3 under ELC) of Galchenyuk, Grigorenko or Forsberg. Think I'd go for the latter.
anyone with half a brain will keep desharnais and his salary (almost slavery for the work he actually does). I'd take staal for our 1rst, but you have to have some respect where its due man. Not even sure cole had a better season than the one he just had with DD. and he used to play with eric staal btw. 5 on 5 Cole DD and Max can't be beat ... that was probably the best 5 on 5 line in the east this season, imho. if not, still right up there with the best. Dont get me wrong, our PP was bad most of the year... but you get that going and these guys all reach 80+ points. So yeah tell me somehing like ''eller needs to get traded if we get staal'' and Im on board ... but DD ? not happening, and that would be a dumb dumb dumb move . But dont argue with me just go out there and ask max and cole ...


Last edited by THE HOFF: 05-04-2012 at 02:01 AM.
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Old
05-04-2012, 02:26 AM
  #208
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^^^To me if we do upgrade at center, whoever that may be and whenever that may be, I agree that DD should stay...60 points and +10 in his first real season given top 6 minutes, is cheaper and will probably always accept less than his market value to stay in Montreal. Pleks for me would be the one to use as trade bait. Ideally I think a top 3 of a top calibre center preferably over 6 feet, DD and Eller would be solid and very balanced.

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05-04-2012, 04:50 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by habdynasty View Post
I want a Staal on the team and i dont care which one , those boys are awesome hockey players..
im sure jared can be had for cheap

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05-04-2012, 07:30 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
Why would Staal agree to sign an extension ?
Why wouldn't he?

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05-04-2012, 07:36 AM
  #211
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Fair warning, my bias for the Habs doesn't turn off when I propose trades
We all are great at criticizing them but are terrible at proposing them

Look at it this way

Staal + Pens first round pick for Habs first round pick + prospect that Pens would like

This is essentially
Staal+Reinhart/Lindholm/Maatta for Galchenyuk+Atsvin/Engqvist/whoever

That's at least how I'd like to see the trade for Staal to go down, not sure how much hype the Pens would have on a deal like this....most likely little

How do you validate a trade as such? The draft is in Pittsburgh and making a splash at the draft table is probably something to be excited about if they were up for it and if it made sense tradewise

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05-04-2012, 08:46 AM
  #212
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I can see Pittsburgh doing this because they want Murray, they are thin on defense and on the wings, but a franchise defenseman is harder to acquire than a winger in the NHL.

To Pittsburgh: 3rd overall draft pick in 2012
To Montreal: Jordan Staal

Trade Plekanec + Weber to a team for a top 9 winger and a late 1st round draft pick in 2013 (deep draft!)

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Bourque - Staal - Gionta
Moen - Eller - Leblanc
Geoffrion - White - Staubitz

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Tinordi - Beaulieu

Price

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Old
05-04-2012, 08:58 AM
  #213
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Do it!
Yes !

No more lazy Russians ! I believe this draft will be very weak. Do it Bergevin. The only kid I'd draft would be Yakupov but he won't fall 3rd. Galchnyuk had a bad knee injury, Grigs is taking nights of, we don't basically need another prospect defenseman, we need a reliable 1st line center with good size ideally.

Jordan Stall is captain material and would be the best center we would have since Vincent Damphousse / Pierre Turgeon.

I'd even throw in Gomez as a bonus in that deal

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05-04-2012, 09:00 AM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
I can see Pittsburgh doing this because they want Murray, they are thin on defense and on the wings, but a franchise defenseman is harder to acquire than a winger in the NHL.

To Pittsburgh: 3rd overall draft pick in 2012
To Montreal: Jordan Staal

Trade Plekanec + Weber to a team for a top 9 winger and a late 1st round draft pick in 2013 (deep draft!)

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Bourque - Staal - Gionta
Moen - Eller - Leblanc
Geoffrion - White - Staubitz

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Tinordi - Beaulieu

Price
Kaberle ? Gomez ? Both in Hamilton ?

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05-04-2012, 09:03 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
I can see Pittsburgh doing this because they want Murray, they are thin on defense and on the wings
How is PIT thin on D?

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05-04-2012, 09:06 AM
  #216
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Keep the pick, draft the forward with the best potential to turn into an all-star. I've never liked Staal.

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05-04-2012, 09:06 AM
  #217
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If Jordan Staal hasn't developed into a 1st line center yet, he never will.

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Old
05-04-2012, 09:12 AM
  #218
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He went from the third line in the AHL to the third line in Pittsburgh. He hasn't been cultivated to be a top line center. We don't need another, at best, #2 center.

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05-04-2012, 09:14 AM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
I can see Pittsburgh doing this because they want Murray, they are thin on defense and on the wings, but a franchise defenseman is harder to acquire than a winger in the NHL.

To Pittsburgh: 3rd overall draft pick in 2012
To Montreal: Jordan Staal

Trade Plekanec + Weber to a team for a top 9 winger and a late 1st round draft pick in 2013 (deep draft!)

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Bourque - Staal - Gionta
Moen - Eller - Leblanc
Geoffrion - White - Staubitz

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Tinordi - Beaulieu

Price
The Penguins have some great young d's on their team and in the minors with Despres, Morrow and Harrington so I don't think they're very "thin"

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05-04-2012, 09:18 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
If Jordan Staal hasn't developed into a 1st line center yet, he never will.
Hard to steal Malkin's spot, or Crosby's.

He's definitely an upgrade on DD and Plek. And much better than any of the non-Yakupov picks will ever be. Book it.

If we end up drafting any of the other kids, I bet we end up with a bust, or very average player.

90 points in QJMHL is terrible. Daniel Brière had a 163 points in his draft year and went 24th and people weren't convinced he'd make the NHL one day. But Grigs had 85 points on a top team, suddenly he's a future SUPERSTAR. Yeah right. Galchenyuk has a bad knee and just got injured again, good pick right ?

I'd rather go with the proven NHL center, Jordan Stall.

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05-04-2012, 09:23 AM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
He went from the third line in the AHL to the third line in Pittsburgh. He hasn't been cultivated to be a top line center. We don't need another, at best, #2 center.
Staal never played in the AHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
If Jordan Staal hasn't developed into a 1st line center yet, he never will.
What is your definition of a 1st line center? He finished 35th in scoring for centers, which would put him top 2 if you want to use that criteria. On a point-per-game basis he finished 19th, which would put him as a #1 guy. Despite the fact that he was only 5th in power-play time amongst forwards on the Penguins, and he was playing behind Malkin and (sometimes) Crosby, with rather weak offensive wingers.

And oh yeah, HE'S ONLY 23!!!

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05-04-2012, 09:24 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
I completely agree with that last statement but that's completely different then trading your 3rd overall pick for a guy that gets you 50-60 pts per yr. It would be more reasonable to trade Pleks for Staal than to trade our 3rd overall pick for Staal.

At least Pleks and Staal get u similar numbers. Both are good defensively too. The only difference is the size factor.
Um: Why would Pitts trade Staal for Pleks? Better just to re sign Staal no? This board, unreal.

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05-04-2012, 09:31 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
If Jordan Staal hasn't developed into a 1st line center yet, he never will.
Really? The guy is only 23 years old and has been playing behind the #1 and #2 guys in the world.

I'm not big on labels anyways... in Staal we're talking about a 23 year old 6'4 natural center who's proven he can play important minutes at both ends of the ice.

In other words, we would be crazy NOT to inquire about him if he is indeed available... even if that means contemplating dealing the 3rd overall pick.

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05-04-2012, 09:32 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Halakalakaboom View Post
Hard to steal Malkin's spot, or Crosby's.

He's definitely an upgrade on DD and Plek. And much better than any of the non-Yakupov picks will ever be. Book it.

If we end up drafting any of the other kids, I bet we end up with a bust, or very average player.

90 points in QJMHL is terrible. Daniel Brière had a 163 points in his draft year and went 24th and people weren't convinced he'd make the NHL one day. But Grigs had 85 points on a top team, suddenly he's a future SUPERSTAR. Yeah right. Galchenyuk has a bad knee and just got injured again, good pick right ?

I'd rather go with the proven NHL center, Jordan Stall.
The only upgrade Staal has over Plekanec is size...and I think size at center is hugely overrated. There is nothing to indicate that having a 6'3" #1 will win you a cup before a 5'11" #1.

It's not worth adding a guy with no contract beyong 12-13 and moving a guy signed at a very good rate for 4 more years PLUS giving up a great young asset.

Sure Staal is more proven than the #3 overall pick, but that player probably has more upside than 55-60 points and won't cost us 6 mil in cap room. It would be terrible use of assets.

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05-04-2012, 09:41 AM
  #225
The Gal Pals
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The only upgrade Staal has over Plekanec is size...and I think size at center is hugely overrated. There is nothing to indicate that having a 6'3" #1 will win you a cup before a 5'11" #1.

It's not worth adding a guy with no contract beyong 12-13 and moving a guy signed at a very good rate for 4 more years PLUS giving up a great young asset.

Sure Staal is more proven than the #3 overall pick, but that player probably has more upside than 55-60 points and won't cost us 6 mil in cap room. It would be terrible use of assets.
This.

Posters want some immediate return rather than being patient with our draft pick. I'm confident that Timmins will draft a kid with more upside than Jordan Staal.

Moreover, all these same posters clamouring for us to trade for Staal will be whining in a few yrs when Staal hits his ceiling at 55-60pts and is being paid over $6M while Galchenyuk or Forsberg are lighting it up elsewhere for pennies on the dollar. Patience people. Staal isn't the answer to all our woes.

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