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Old
05-04-2012, 01:09 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Those 1-2 soft goals a game are a massive issue. The guy's cap hit is way too high to be a Russian Boucher.
Soft =/= Stoppable. I haven't seen many soft goals go in during the playoffs, and none against NJ. And again Beef.....Fish....what are we gonna do about the cap hit? You've gotta be tired about complaining about it already. He's never going to be a $51m goaltender. Never. He's 31 years old already, so he's not going to surprise us and morph into Lundqvist by next season.

This organization has been great by making it far with mediocre goalies behind great teams and strong defensive systems. Now we have a good goalie behind a good team and terrible defensive system.

The amount people expect him to bail this defense out is unfair for anyone, doesn't matter how much you make.

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05-04-2012, 01:09 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Swiper the Fox View Post
brilliant synopsis
problem is, i like the 'offensive minded' team
going to a more defensive system scares me into thinking this team will end up being like the old NJDevils / present day NYRangers

that style of play bores the hell out of me
it would make me NOT want to watch the game any more
could paint a wall and watch it dry and at the same time watch a rangers game
and i think the paint would dry before a goal was scored
if that style of play led to a stanley cup, i doubt you'd be complaining

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Old
05-04-2012, 01:09 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Nobody's defending him. We're trying to give you a clue as to why he sucks. Unfortunately no matter how much he bails out his terrible defense, he never bails them out enough.
The defense really hasn't been as horrible as people make it out to be. It just looks worse because at any point, if they make the slightest mistake...it's often in the net. They spent much of the last game doing a good job holding NJ to the perimeter. Yeah, they had a lot of puck possession, but they were held to the outside for much of it. It's not like Bryz got hopelessly shelled...shots were 31-28 through 3 periods and OT, despite them spending so much time in our end.

Caps and NY have been making plenty of defensive errors too. Hell, Wideman and Schultz are both horrendous. The difference is that their goalie bails them out. Seems like Bryz can only do that for one period per game, and after that all bets are off.

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05-04-2012, 01:12 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
so 3.54 and .878 is acceptable.

got it

I think the point people are making is that to fault Bryz alone for those numbers is ridiculous.

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05-04-2012, 01:12 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
For a couple games, yes. His stats are skewed because of the PIT series. This series he hasn't been a 4.00 GAA. But somehow people are watching Bryz let in 1-2 stoppable shots per game and going into Negadelphian mode, because of how much he makes. When that amnesty clause DOESN'T HAPPEN, people are gonna have to get over his contract very quickly, because he's who we have and it likely isn't changing.
You're right. He's only been a 3GAA player this series.

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05-04-2012, 01:14 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
The thing is, for the past 20 years we havent had the same system at all. The system we currently had was pretty sufficient with the average to below average goalies we have ad the past few years. It is kinda funny though that we get an "elite" goalie but we have to change the system to suit him to play just average.
There's 0% chance that this is the exact same system we played in 2010. Remove Pronger from the mix, tack on 2 more years and more wear and tear on Kimmo, and add an unimaginable amount of defensive mistakes, dozens of bad bounces, and a mental rollercoaster of a goalie...and you get this.

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05-04-2012, 01:16 PM
  #57
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Really, I'm not seeing any more defensive mistakes from the Flyers than most other teams are giving up. That theory is a myth.

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05-04-2012, 01:16 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
The fact that you somehow think every slight breakdown should automatically relieve the goaltender of responsibility is laughable
you are no flyers fan, if you are you wouldnt try to blame your own goaltender.

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05-04-2012, 01:18 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
The thing is, for the past 20 years we havent had the same system at all. The system we currently had was pretty sufficient with the average to below average goalies we have ad the past few years. It is kinda funny though that we get an "elite" goalie but we have to change the system to suit him to play just average.
It's been a pretty dynamic system but they were still oriented offensively, and I should've emphasised on the last decade in more than the last twenty years.

The bold part is where I disagree, it hasn't been sufficient because we aren't getting results.

Honestly do you see another option? Bryz will be here regardless if we like it or not, so we have to deal with it. I'm putting out an option to change the system not just so suit Bryz, but to suit out the whole team. I honestly believe a system change can benefit all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiper the Fox View Post
brilliant synopsis
problem is, i like the 'offensive minded' team
going to a more defensive system scares me into thinking this team will end up being like the old NJDevils / present day NYRangers

that style of play bores the hell out of me
it would make me NOT want to watch the game any more
could paint a wall and watch it dry and at the same time watch a rangers game
and i think the paint would dry before a goal was scored
It's not like we have much options, we may not like it but sometimes to win you have to do what's necessary. We have a lot of problems and injuries and with Bryz not living it up to his contract, we have to find a way to incorporate all of this and come up with a decent solution. And not even completely changing the system, just tweak so it can be slightly more D oriented.

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05-04-2012, 01:20 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
There's 0% chance that this is the exact same system we played in 2010. Remove Pronger from the mix, tack on 2 more years and more wear and tear on Kimmo, and add an unimaginable amount of defensive mistakes, dozens of bad bounces, and a mental rollercoaster of a goalie...and you get this.
See totally disagree. Pronger played half of last season. Timonen is older but had a significantly better season. The past two years we have had bad bounces and defensive mistakes also. Theres no way to show this season "bad bounces" were worse. The mental rollercoaster the goalie created himself.

I think your confusing what "system" we are talking about though.

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Old
05-04-2012, 01:21 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
The defense really hasn't been as horrible as people make it out to be. It just looks worse because at any point, if they make the slightest mistake...it's often in the net. They spent much of the last game doing a good job holding NJ to the perimeter. Yeah, they had a lot of puck possession, but they were held to the outside for much of it. It's not like Bryz got hopelessly shelled...shots were 31-28 through 3 periods and OT, despite them spending so much time in our end.

Caps and NY have been making plenty of defensive errors too. Hell, Wideman and Schultz are both horrendous. The difference is that their goalie bails them out. Seems like Bryz can only do that for one period per game, and after that all bets are off.
It's been all or nothing. They played great for stretches last night, but that one mistake is catestrophic. But the Devils are having their way with the defense, they WANT to keep it along the boards. It draws both of our defenders to the boards and usually a center as well. There always seems to be a guy open, or someone else gets a step on them.

Again, Bryz isn't Lundqvist. He'll never be Lundqvist. Don't know why people are throwing him out as some kind of comparison. There haven't been many defensive errors on NYRs side either, not sure what you're seeing. Only one that sticks out to me is the Laich sauce to Chimera to end the period early in the series....a stoppable shot that Hank didn't stop. No one seemed to complain.

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05-04-2012, 01:24 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by MacJagr View Post
It's been a pretty dynamic system but they were still oriented offensively, and I should've emphasised on the last decade in more than the last twenty years.

The bold part is where I disagree, it hasn't been sufficient because we aren't getting results.

Honestly do you see another option? Bryz will be here regardless if we like it or not, so we have to deal with it. I'm putting out an option to change the system not just so suit Bryz, but to suit out the whole team. I honestly believe a system change can benefit all.




It's not like we have much options, we may not like it but sometimes to win you have to do what's necessary. We have a lot of problems and injuries and with Bryz not living it up to his contract, we have to find a way to incorporate all of this and come up with a decent solution. And not even completely changing the system, just tweak so it can be slightly more D oriented.
Well the players we have wont work with the new system so we will need to blow up the team. The change also might make Bryz look better, but you are also assuming the team would overall do better. What if we go into the problem of not scoring goals?

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Old
05-04-2012, 01:25 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
It's been all or nothing. They played great for stretches last night, but that one mistake is catestrophic. But the Devils are having their way with the defense, they WANT to keep it along the boards. It draws both of our defenders to the boards and usually a center as well. There always seems to be a guy open, or someone else gets a step on them.

Again, Bryz isn't Lundqvist. He'll never be Lundqvist. Don't know why people are throwing him out as some kind of comparison. There haven't been many defensive errors on NYRs side either, not sure what you're seeing. Only one that sticks out to me is the Laich sauce to Chimera to end the period early in the series....a stoppable shot that Hank didn't stop. No one seemed to complain.
Because supporters in the last thread were saying they are on the same level but the Rangers defense helps Lundy out more. But your wrong about the last game. Last night they showed the highlights of the Rangers defensive breakdowns. There were MANY. Lundy bailed them out though.

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Old
05-04-2012, 01:33 PM
  #64
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people said Loungo wasnt movable out of Vancouver.. but i bet hes gone this spring..

i see no reason why if management decides the Bryzaster experiment is over, that the guy wont be basicly forced out. im sure they can make it so he packs his crap and moves on.

NMC or not.. same as Lou. (personaly i bet Lou lands on a Florida team for next season)

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05-04-2012, 01:36 PM
  #65
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LOLungo is getting run out by fan pressure.

Sources I have seen claim he has said he would waive his NTC. Basically he wants out.

If Bryz doesn't straighten up, I can see that happening here.

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05-04-2012, 01:37 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
See totally disagree. Pronger played half of last season. Timonen is older but had a significantly better season. The past two years we have had bad bounces and defensive mistakes also. Theres no way to show this season "bad bounces" were worse. The mental rollercoaster the goalie created himself.

I think your confusing what "system" we are talking about though.
What system is that?

Pronger played 13 games. Bryz only played in 9 of those games. Also, there was a ridiculous amount of bad bounces and deflections early in the season that cost us a couple games.

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05-04-2012, 01:37 PM
  #67
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People using Quick and Henrik as comparisons really need to ****ing watch the King and Rags play. ALmost everytime the Devils are in Flyers zone, it looks like a PP. Quick and Henrik have 10 times the defensive TEAM in front of them. Look at Elliot now that Blues struggle defensively, he looks worse than Bryz and is letting in 4 goals on 24 shots.

Quick and Henrik >>>>> Bryz, but please ****ing stop comparing them to Bryz, as either guy on the Flyers would have quite a drop in their stats. They are both better goalies, but they would have just good numbers on the FLyers, not outstanding. Why is that so hard for people to grasp ? Same reason Richie is a 45 pt player and not a 85 pt player, systems matter.

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05-04-2012, 01:37 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy View Post
I think the point people are making is that to fault Bryz alone for those numbers is ridiculous.
I never said he was the main reason for him giving up the type of goals he has. But I am not going to make excuses for him either like some people do. He is palying well below what he is being paid to do. play like a true #1 goalie.

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05-04-2012, 01:38 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
LOLungo is getting run out by fan pressure.

Sources I have seen claim he has said he would waive his NTC. Basically he wants out.

If Bryz doesn't straighten up, I can see that happening here.
But Bryz is the worst goalie in the league ?? So he has nowhere to go .

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05-04-2012, 01:38 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by MacJagr View Post
I'm interested to know what's your take on this. I was just talking about this Bryz situation with a bunch people. Just to get this out of the way first, Bryz probably won't be worth his contract but IMO we have to deal with it. He's more than enough to get the job done, regardless of the outcome this season, I will still give the guy another chance, show some patience, it could pay off in the end who knows.

Now, back to what I wanted to say, I honestly believe that the problem should not get pinned all on the goalie, but for the majority of the part it should be blamed on the system itself. The Flyers play an offensive minded system, meaning that this type of system leaves out the goalie with very minimal defensive support, Now, ofcourse we also have a history of getting mediocre goaltenders themselves, however judging by the amount of goalies we've gone through in the last decade, this should really just prove that this type of system doesn't work for the goaltenders, no matter who we bring (Well unless we bring some super awesome robot goalie, but for now we won't so we'll just leave it at that.)

Here's where I am getting at, the system needs to be changed to become just a tad more defensive oriented rather than offensive. We've seen how goalies tend to play when the D is sharp and focus, so if by making the system favour the D a bit more, it could really pay off. This will suit the goaltender, and it might mean sacrificing a bit of offence, but I honestly believe this will work out in the long run. And just so people don't take what I say out of context, I'm not saying to rid of our offence and go out all D, far from it, I just think at this point and with all the factors taken into consideration (injuries, inconsistent goaltending etc) this whole team could benefit with a bit more defence. This team needs develop a system that will have all the players on the same page.

Now, regardless of the outcome of this post season, I will slide this one off. Take into consideration that he's been taken out of a system that is completely defensive and reintroduced into a completely offensive one, and then also take into account the injuries we have had with our D haven't really helped him out. So he has another chance to prove that he is capable of doing this - which I fully believe he is.

That's my take on it.
Great post.

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05-04-2012, 01:38 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
LOLungo is getting run out by fan pressure.

Sources I have seen claim he has said he would waive his NTC. Basically he wants out.

If Bryz doesn't straighten up, I can see that happening here.
pretty much. Luongo leaving is on Luongo. We'd need the same from Bryz...and then we'd want someone to pay Bryz that money.

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05-04-2012, 01:39 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
People using Quick and Henrik as comparisons really need to ****ing watch the King and Rags play. ALmost everytime the Devils are in Flyers zone, it looks like a PP. Quick and Henrik have 10 times the defensive TEAM in front of them. Look at Elliot now that Blues struggle defensively, he looks worse than Bryz and is letting in 4 goals on 24 shots.

Quick and Henrik >>>>> Bryz, but please ****ing stop comparing them to Bryz, as either guy on the Flyers would have quite a drop in their stats. They are both better goalies, but they would have just good numbers on the FLyers, not outstanding. Why is that so hard for people to grasp ? Same reason Richie is a 45 pt player and not a 85 pt player, systems matter.
this sums it up

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05-04-2012, 01:40 PM
  #73
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I never said he was the main reason for him giving up the type of goals he has. But I am not going to make excuses for him either like some people do. He is palying well below what he is being paid to do. play like a true #1 goalie.
Which is what? What's the template for a true #1 goalie? Who's the example? If you say Quick, Rinne, or Lundqvist, I'm going to ROFL all over the floor.

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05-04-2012, 01:41 PM
  #74
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But Bryz is the worst goalie in the league ?? So he has nowhere to go .
You mean worst goalie in the world of all time?

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05-04-2012, 01:41 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Well the players we have wont work with the new system so we will need to blow up the team. The change also might make Bryz look better, but you are also assuming the team would overall do better. What if we go into the problem of not scoring goals?
We won't, the worst that can happen is that the team might not score as often, but we will still score, no doubt about it. This team is too deep, our players are remarkable, young and extremely talented. Start with small steps, not change the system suddenly and completely at once. Slowly implement more defensive duties. All that's needs to be done is start moulding the young players a bit into putting more effort defensively. I have a feeling that it will pay off greatly in the future. Not just for the team, but for the players themselves.

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