HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

The All-Purpose "Defense" Thread

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-04-2012, 02:37 PM
  #1
hckyplayer8
He's Gone!
 
hckyplayer8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicken Capital,PA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,858
vCash: 500
The All-Purpose "Defense" Thread

While certainly not a power house, I happen to disagree with the Bryzbrigade that the D is THAT bad currently.

Defensive hiccups? Yes
A monstrosity of epic proportions? No

However it is the second weakest spot on this team IMO.

Discuss.

hckyplayer8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 02:43 PM
  #2
Broad Street Elite
Registered User
 
Broad Street Elite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,271
vCash: 500
It's the weakest spot on the team right ahead of Bryz. I can't remember a Flyers team that would consistently allow 3-5 odd man rushes the other way on a game-by-game basis.

Bryz isn't bailing them out a lot, but he certainly is being asked to bail them out more than he should.

Broad Street Elite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 02:46 PM
  #3
Coppy
Good Luck Richie!
 
Coppy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 918
vCash: 500
Our defense can't deal with the forecheck the Devils have brought in this series. Too many of them are uncomfortable with the puck on their stick in their own zone. At this point Coburn is the only one I have faith in the move puck up the ice.

Coppy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 02:53 PM
  #4
Jtown
Registered User
 
Jtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 10,122
vCash: 539
The more I watch the playoffs the more obvious it is that defense is a total organizational effort down to the coaches, system implemented by the coaches and players designed for that system. it is not as simple as just getting a great defense man on your team to have a great defense, it has to be a commitment from everyone on the ice. We don't have a complete lineup of guys who can play a defensive style, it is that simple

Jtown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 02:57 PM
  #5
54drinking
Registered User
 
54drinking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 990
vCash: 500
Not to unfairly blame any one player because these have been team losses, but that Lilja play in overtime last night was brutal. Here's the clip.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...d=35&id=176211

He's got to take the man here and give Bryz some help. Lilja doesn't do anything more than just skate around like a deer in headlights. A quick look at his ice-time last night showed him -2 with only a 13 minutes total for the game. He's definitely a liability on D. And yes I know we're banged up, but you have to play smarter hockey at this time of year. If Lilja takes Poni on that play Bryz makes that first save and can cover the puck.

The clearing out of our own end has been equally brutal, Jersey's forecheck has been very good this series. But our D zone passing (or lack thereof) has made it stand out more.

This is a 7-game series, and it's gut check time. Hopefully the team can look at video of the past 3 games and make adjustments.

54drinking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 03:00 PM
  #6
Xegiie
Registered User
 
Xegiie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Czech republic
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 1,941
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 54drinking View Post

He's got to take the man here and give Bryz some help. Lilja doesn't do anything more than just skate around like a deer in headlights. A quick look at his ice-time last night showed him -2 with only a 13 minutes total for the game. He's definitely a liability on D. And yes I know we're banged up, but you have to play smarter hockey at this time of year. If Lilja takes Poni on that play Bryz makes that first same and can cover the puck.

T
yeah good point, 1 on 1 and Lilja is just starring at Poni kinda murder right there, Lilja has good games and bad games, this one was real bad

Xegiie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 03:12 PM
  #7
achdumeingute
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
The more I watch the playoffs the more obvious it is that defense is a total organizational effort down to the coaches, system implemented by the coaches and players designed for that system. it is not as simple as just getting a great defense man on your team to have a great defense, it has to be a commitment from everyone on the ice. We don't have a complete lineup of guys who can play a defensive style, it is that simple
Somewhat true.
When hitch was here we couldn't score goals to save our life, but we had lots of 2-1 games.
Maybe if hitch and lavy run hard at each other they will combine into supercoach...

achdumeingute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 03:22 PM
  #8
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,273
vCash: 156
Let's not turn this into a Briere or Bryz thread, please.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 03:30 PM
  #9
phillyflyerfan1992
@ahthorne
 
phillyflyerfan1992's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancover Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 363
vCash: 500
Lilja/Gus should not be playing on a team in the 2nd round of the playoffs... but that's injuries. The only reason I would have felt comfortable with this defense is if we had Meszaros back and everyone was 100% healthy. Bourdon would be a nice addition too...

Grossmann-Coburn
Carle-Timonen
Meszaros-Kubina(healthy)/Gus/Bourdon

The only reason they made it to the finals with that god-awful 3rd pairing was because we had Chris mother@!#$ing Pronger. This year we can't hide our 3rd pairing 'cause the other 2 aren't equal to Pronger/Timonen of two years ago. This team really misses Pronger right about now... however even if we don't win the Cup this year I can guarantee we will continue to challenge for the next several years, especially 2012-13.

phillyflyerfan1992 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 03:31 PM
  #10
bennysflyers16
Registered User
 
bennysflyers16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 16,524
vCash: 50
With Kimmo at 75% or less, this def is quite bad.

Coburn - Solid
Grossmann-Solid, but seems injured
Carle-Awful
Kimmo-Below average in current state
Gus-Undersized rookie playing well, but being exposed from hard forecheck
Lilja-Number 7 guy in a 6 role

No heavy PP point shot, no RH point shot !

Cant see one def core in playoffs I would take these guys over ?

bennysflyers16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 03:33 PM
  #11
Go For It
Registered User
 
Go For It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Collegeville, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,004
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
The more I watch the playoffs the more obvious it is that defense is a total organizational effort down to the coaches, system implemented by the coaches and players designed for that system. it is not as simple as just getting a great defense man on your team to have a great defense, it has to be a commitment from everyone on the ice. We don't have a complete lineup of guys who can play a defensive style, it is that simple
Not only do we have a rash of injuries on our back line, but we traded away our two best defensive forwards and replaced them with Giroux, who tries (usually), but is just too small, Briere, who is who he is, Schenn, who's alright, and Couturier, who we all know has done a great job.

Even though he's very good, it's a HUGE problem when your best defensive forward is a 19 year old rookie and your second best is a 3rd/4th line tweener (Talbot). If we ever want to succeed in the playoffs, especially with this current system, our forwards need to become better defensively and buy into playing at both ends of the ice.

EDIT: It's sad also watching what's happening to Kimmo. You can tell he's trying as hard as he can, but whether it's injury or age, he's fallen a step or two from where he's been the past couple of years.

Go For It is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 03:52 PM
  #12
Bernie Parent 1974
Registered User
 
Bernie Parent 1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 3,181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
It's the weakest spot on the team
agreed. our team D is awful. when do we get to have 4 breakaways [some in OT] a game & turnovers behind their net, with our players coming in from the corners undefended ??

Bernie Parent 1974 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 03:52 PM
  #13
achdumeingute
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
Not only do we have a rash of injuries on our back line, but we traded away our two best defensive forwards and replaced them with Giroux, who tries (usually), but is just too small, Briere, who is who he is, Schenn, who's alright, and Couturier, who we all know has done a great job.

Even though he's very good, it's a HUGE problem when your best defensive forward is a 19 year old rookie and your second best is a 3rd/4th line tweener (Talbot). If we ever want to succeed in the playoffs, especially with this current system, our forwards need to become better defensively and buy into playing at both ends of the ice.

EDIT: It's sad also watching what's happening to Kimmo. You can tell he's trying as hard as he can, but whether it's injury or age, he's fallen a step or two from where he's been the past couple of years.
All true buddy.

Also, as good as grossman trade was, the Kubina one has been awful. Not Oates bad on paper...but in results...

achdumeingute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 03:58 PM
  #14
CSKA1974
Registered User
 
CSKA1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Flyerville
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 1,329
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
The more I watch the playoffs the more obvious it is that defense is a total organizational effort down to the coaches, system implemented by the coaches and players designed for that system. it is not as simple as just getting a great defense man on your team to have a great defense, it has to be a commitment from everyone on the ice. We don't have a complete lineup of guys who can play a defensive style, it is that simple
I aplaude you for your post. Right on

CSKA1974 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 04:00 PM
  #15
TyrannoMeszarosRex
Humanoid
 
TyrannoMeszarosRex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Kuwait
Country: Scotland
Posts: 289
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
Not only do we have a rash of injuries on our back line, but we traded away our two best defensive forwards and replaced them with Giroux, who tries (usually), but is just too small, Briere, who is who he is, Schenn, who's alright, and Couturier, who we all know has done a great job.

Even though he's very good, it's a HUGE problem when your best defensive forward is a 19 year old rookie and your second best is a 3rd/4th line tweener (Talbot). If we ever want to succeed in the playoffs, especially with this current system, our forwards need to become better defensively and buy into playing at both ends of the ice.

EDIT: It's sad also watching what's happening to Kimmo. You can tell he's trying as hard as he can, but whether it's injury or age, he's fallen a step or two from where he's been the past couple of years.


This is exactly what I have been saying in the other thread.

TyrannoMeszarosRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 04:20 PM
  #16
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,273
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Let's not turn this into a Briere or Bryz thread, please.
OK. To amend this, let's not make it about the coaches, either.

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 04:30 PM
  #17
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
The more I watch the playoffs the more obvious it is that defense is a total organizational effort down to the coaches, system implemented by the coaches and players designed for that system. it is not as simple as just getting a great defense man on your team to have a great defense, it has to be a commitment from everyone on the ice. We don't have a complete lineup of guys who can play a defensive style, it is that simple
I think we don't have the defensemen to play anything but a defensive style.

JXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 05:22 PM
  #18
CanadianFlyer88
Moderator
Knublin' PPs
 
CanadianFlyer88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Van City
Posts: 13,925
vCash: 955
For as well as Gus played in the first round, he sure looks like a rookie in round 2.

The only consistent defenseman the Flyers have at the moment is Coburn. Grossmann hasn't looked nearly as good since he came back from injury, Kimmo can barely skate, Carle has plenty of high-risk, high-reward moments that often bite him in the ass and Lilja is pretty much what I expected from him at this stage.

To make matters worse, apparent 'injuries' to capable defensive forwards like Hartnell, Simmonds, Giroux and now Couturier have created fire drills in the defensive zone.

The team is spending far too much time in the defensive zone and the game winning goal last night is a direct product of this. They need to tighten up defensively if they want to advance past round 2; more efforts like game 6 against Pittsburgh, which was the only team committment to defense they've shown in the entire playoffs to this point.

__________________
I deride your truth handling abilities

Last edited by CanadianFlyer88: 05-04-2012 at 05:43 PM.
CanadianFlyer88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 05:35 PM
  #19
Bernie Parent 1974
Registered User
 
Bernie Parent 1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 3,181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
They need to tighten up defensively if they want to advance past round 2; more efforts like game 6 against Pittsburgh, which was the only team commitment to defense they've shown in the entire playoffs to this point.
exactly. if they need to try and block 40 shots & they win games, i'm all for it. they were totally committed that game. tighter coverage & blocked shots.

Bernie Parent 1974 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 05:37 PM
  #20
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
exactly. if they need to try and block 40 shots & they win games, i'm all for it. they were totally committed that game. tighter coverage & blocked shots.
That's the way championships are won. It is mystifying to me that the important people don't see it.

JXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 05:41 PM
  #21
Qyburn
Registered User
 
Qyburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,447
vCash: 500
It certainly looks, in this round, like the old maxim about defense wins out.

I still believe in the round 1 flyers. You just need to light a match, and the cup is ours.

Qyburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 05:45 PM
  #22
Jtown
Registered User
 
Jtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 10,122
vCash: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
exactly. if they need to try and block 40 shots & they win games, i'm all for it. they were totally committed that game. tighter coverage & blocked shots.
Blocking 40 shots a game is not how you win. That is how the rangers have won this year, and to be frank they have been extremely lucky with injuries. Most teams that block a high amount of shots lose players to injuries for an extended period of time i.e. JVR.


I believe the Flyers have the right system to win in this league, but come playoff time this clutch and grab stuff has really slowed our offense down. NJ is a well coached , smart team. They have an amazing PK, so they can do this clutch and grab tactics all game, and the few times they get called they can successfully kill the penalty.

Jtown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 05:50 PM
  #23
Qyburn
Registered User
 
Qyburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,447
vCash: 500
I think NJ's pk success in this series is just an extension of the X-factor, that X-factor being that advantage they've gained that no one can put their finger on.

They've had overall success (ES, special teams) and I mistrust anyone who thinks they have the explanation.

Qyburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 06:04 PM
  #24
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,273
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Blocking 40 shots a game is not how you win. That is how the rangers have won this year, and to be frank they have been extremely lucky with injuries. Most teams that block a high amount of shots lose players to injuries for an extended period of time i.e. JVR.


I believe the Flyers have the right system to win in this league, but come playoff time this clutch and grab stuff has really slowed our offense down. NJ is a well coached , smart team. They have an amazing PK, so they can do this clutch and grab tactics all game, and the few times they get called they can successfully kill the penalty.
Last year one of the biggest reasons they lost was that Callahan broke his leg blocking a shot. playing that sort of defense is playing with fire.

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 06:11 PM
  #25
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
That's the way championships are won. It is mystifying to me that the important people don't see it.
40 blocked shots means you were spending far too much time in your own end. You don't win championships if you are constantly losing puck possession battles.

It's simple. Spend less time in your own zone and you won't need to block as many shots.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:21 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.