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Offseason Discussion Part III (Contract/FA chart in post #1)

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05-04-2012, 01:17 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by DegenX View Post
Prust will be UFA ... any interest in him as a replacement for Asham?
Yes please.

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05-04-2012, 01:21 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by DegenX View Post
Prust will be UFA ... any interest in him as a replacement for Asham?
Sure only one problem, he's a Ranger. They just signed a 4th liner in Rupp to a 3 year, $4.5M deal, Prust likes being a Ranger and playing for Tortorella, they will pay him good money.

Asham likes being a Penguin and can probably be re-signed for around $700,000. I'd do that deal.

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05-04-2012, 01:27 PM
  #103
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If Asham wants to re-sign for 700K, there really isnt much downside

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05-04-2012, 01:28 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by DegenX View Post
Prust will be UFA ... any interest in him as a replacement for Asham?
definitely but what will he cost? What do we see Jeffrey or Tangradi fitting in? With Bylsma I guess that really is the big question.

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05-04-2012, 01:36 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
definitely but what will he cost? What do we see Jeffrey or Tangradi fitting in? With Bylsma I guess that really is the big question.
Personally, Id like to see Tangradi pencilled in on the 3rd line taking Cookes spot. Cooke dealt in a trade.

As for Jeffery, its going to be tough for him. I think its 3rd line center or trade

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05-04-2012, 01:47 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
definitely but what will he cost? What do we see Jeffrey or Tangradi fitting in? With Bylsma I guess that really is the big question.
His current cap hit is $800,000. But Del Zotto is going to be RFA and Biron will also be UFA, depending on the new CBA and/or the cost of resigning those two may not leave much cap space ... which is why I'm wondering if he'll try the open market ... no idea what he might be realistically available for.

Jeffrey has another year on his current contract, and with the limited ice time he's gotten I can't imagine Tangradi will get a huge raise. In terms of where those two fit into the line-up ... yeah

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05-04-2012, 01:57 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by DegenX View Post
Prust will be UFA ... any interest in him as a replacement for Asham?
Prust is the kind of player we've been missing. I would love to have him but as we have seen the Free Agency market might drive his price too high.

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05-04-2012, 02:01 PM
  #108
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If Asham wants to re-sign for 700K, there really isnt much downside
Except he isn't a very good player anymore. That's a pretty big down side.

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05-04-2012, 02:07 PM
  #109
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Except he isn't a very good player anymore. That's a pretty big down side.
I agree that his play hasnt been great, but its not like DB gives his 4th line much time anyways. For the 5-8mins a night he gets, a guy that can fight and doesnt have stone hands, its not a terrible option.

Dont get me wrong, if it meant Prust at 1M or Asham at 750K, id take Prust. But its not that simple all the time

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05-04-2012, 02:15 PM
  #110
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Ship out M&M + Lovejoy, sign Bryan Allen, re-sign Strait, Niskanen, and Bortuzzo, roll into training camp with:

Orpik-Letang
Allen-Bortuzzo
Niskanen-Engelland
(Strait)

+Despres and Morrow for call-ups

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05-04-2012, 02:44 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Mister Ed View Post
Ship out M&M + Lovejoy, sign Bryan Allen, re-sign Strait, Niskanen, and Bortuzzo, roll into training camp with:

Orpik-Letang
Allen-Bortuzzo
Niskanen-Engelland
(Strait)

+Despres and Morrow for call-ups
I think its safe to say Despres is in, especially if Martin is gone. Id pair he and Bortuzzo together, if it works, keep them as a pair for the next 5 years.

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05-04-2012, 03:37 PM
  #112
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I think its safe to say Despres is in, especially if Martin is gone. Id pair he and Bortuzzo together, if it works, keep them as a pair for the next 5 years.
I can definitely agree with a Despres-Bortuzzo pairing in the future but I'm not sure if Despres is there yet, while Bortuzzo (and Strait) is IMO. Allen would be a really smart addition to this D if we can get him on a solid contract, he's got a meanness that Despres doesn't have and uses his big frame more effectively. Despres is more mobile and better with the puck though.

I think an Allen-Bortuzzo pairing give us what Martin-Michalek can't: two big, physical defenders who use their wingspan to rub forwards out of the play and keep the crease clear, plus Bortuzzo has a pretty solid outlet pass. The downside is a loss in overall mobility and the supposed "offense" that Martin is capable of.

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05-04-2012, 03:40 PM
  #113
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After watching WBS this post season, I really don't want to see Bortuzzo gone. He's the exact kind of defender we are all looking for. Big, physical, plays conservatively. If we lose him for nothing, I'm going to be pretty pissed.

I really hope he actually gets a shot to play during the preseason. He was injured last preseason, and never got his opportunity.

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05-04-2012, 04:28 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
After watching WBS this post season, I really don't want to see Bortuzzo gone. He's the exact kind of defender we are all looking for. Big, physical, plays conservatively. If we lose him for nothing, I'm going to be pretty pissed.

I really hope he actually gets a shot to play during the preseason. He was injured last preseason, and never got his opportunity.
How's Bort's skating?

The few games he played before getting concussed by that little **** Rinaldo, I always caught myself wishing he was a half step faster.

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05-04-2012, 04:44 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Ed View Post
Ship out M&M + Lovejoy, sign Bryan Allen, re-sign Strait, Niskanen, and Bortuzzo, roll into training camp with:

Orpik-Letang
Allen-Bortuzzo
Niskanen-Engelland
(Strait)

+Despres and Morrow for call-ups
I agree except I think you add Despres to that line-up and stick with 8 d-men. Why not go with 7 Dmen every game?

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Old
05-04-2012, 04:56 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
How's Bort's skating?

The few games he played before getting concussed by that little **** Rinaldo, I always caught myself wishing he was a half step faster.
It seemed fine to me, but that was at the AHL level. I think he'd be fine as long as he knows he can't pinch all the time, and once he gets adjusted to the speed of the NHL game. The thing is, he plays the kind of game you win in the playoffs with.

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05-04-2012, 05:02 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
definitely but what will he cost? What do we see Jeffrey or Tangradi fitting in? With Bylsma I guess that really is the big question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hottubber View Post
Personally, Id like to see Tangradi pencilled in on the 3rd line taking Cookes spot. Cooke dealt in a trade.

As for Jeffery, its going to be tough for him. I think its 3rd line center or trade
What I would like to see is the following:

Kunitz--Crosby--Dupuis(unless we get someone better)
Tangradi--Malkin--Neal
Cooke--Staal--Kennedy
Jeffrey--Vitale--Asham/Adams/UFA

In that scenario, if Jeffrey outplays Tangradi, he can move up to line 2, and Tangradi to the 4th line. In either scenario, you could double-shift any one of the big 3 centres with Jeffrey or Tangradi or whomever, and at least have a 4th line with some skill that could create some offensive opportunities. That's part of the way to accomplishing the goal of giving Staal some increased offensive responsibility.

If we end up signing/trading for a guy with skill (i.e. Ray Whitney, Setoguchi, Stewart, etc), then there's a trickle down effect that bumps Asham/Adams out of the line-up and gives us a 4th line with even more skill potential.

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05-04-2012, 05:09 PM
  #118
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I agree except I think you add Despres to that line-up and stick with 8 d-men. Why not go with 7 Dmen every game?
I don't think you generally want to roll 7 defensemen every game in the regular season and they won't need to keep Despres and Morrow on the team full-time. Both of those guys are waiver-excempt and can be called up at any time. And don't get me wrong, if Morrow or Despres force their way into the line-up that would be ideal.

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05-04-2012, 05:09 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
What I would like to see is the following:

Kunitz--Crosby--Dupuis(unless we get someone better)
Tangradi--Malkin--Neal
Cooke--Staal--Kennedy
Jeffrey--Vitale--Asham/Adams/UFA

In that scenario, if Jeffrey outplays Tangradi, he can move up to line 2, and Tangradi to the 4th line. In either scenario, you could double-shift any one of the big 3 centres with Jeffrey or Tangradi or whomever, and at least have a 4th line with some skill that could create some offensive opportunities. That's part of the way to accomplishing the goal of giving Staal some increased offensive responsibility.

If we end up signing/trading for a guy with skill (i.e. Ray Whitney, Setoguchi, Stewart, etc), then there's a trickle down effect that bumps Asham/Adams out of the line-up and gives us a 4th line with even more skill potential.
These are the only two I don't like. Jeffrey should go some where else if he isn't going to be on the third line at least. We need two good 4th line guys for energy. Other than that I like it.

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05-04-2012, 05:11 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
What I would like to see is the following:

Kunitz--Crosby--Dupuis(unless we get someone better)
Tangradi--Malkin--Neal
Cooke--Staal--Kennedy
Jeffrey--Vitale--Asham/Adams/UFA

In that scenario, if Jeffrey outplays Tangradi, he can move up to line 2, and Tangradi to the 4th line. In either scenario, you could double-shift any one of the big 3 centres with Jeffrey or Tangradi or whomever, and at least have a 4th line with some skill that could create some offensive opportunities. That's part of the way to accomplishing the goal of giving Staal some increased offensive responsibility.

If we end up signing/trading for a guy with skill (i.e. Ray Whitney, Setoguchi, Stewart, etc), then there's a trickle down effect that bumps Asham/Adams out of the line-up and gives us a 4th line with even more skill potential.
This is the kind of situation that would make Jordan Staal leave. An AHL nobody can sneak into a top 6 role, when Staalzy our best player in the playoffs gets stuck as a 3rd line center. I think Staal should move up to a top 6, send Jeffery as the 3rd line center with Kennedy and Tango on his wings. Make Cooke, Vitale and Asham/Adams the energy line

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05-04-2012, 05:17 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
These are the only two I don't like. Jeffrey should go some where else if he isn't going to be on the third line at least. We need two good 4th line guys for energy. Other than that I like it.

I don't disagree that guys like Jeffrey or Tangradi may not have long-term futures with this club, but moving either one now would be the classic case of selling low. I think we need to put them on the big club next year, give them a chance to succeed, and then trade them for an appropriate return if they don't fit.

But I could see one or both of those guys being good fits on the top 3 lines. Tangradi has the size to be effective down low & decent hands, and Jeffrey has the skill+vision+hockey sense to be able to play with skilled players like our big 3 -- especially if he can transition to LW.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
How's Bort's skating?

The few games he played before getting concussed by that little **** Rinaldo, I always caught myself wishing he was a half step faster.

I agree that his skating leaves something to be desired, but he brings a different element that we don't have. The best comparison is a guy like Hal Gill. Bortuzzo isn't quite as big, but he has a great reach & wing span, and he can provide an element that we don't really have on our team in that regard, and that makes up for his skating to some degree; especially if we can pair him with someone who has good mobility (like Orpik or Strait now, or Morrow in the future).

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05-04-2012, 05:28 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
But I I agree that his skating leaves something to be desired, but he brings a different element that we don't have. The best comparison is a guy like Hal Gill. Bortuzzo isn't quite as big, but he has a great reach & wing span, and he can provide an element that we don't really have on our team in that regard, and that makes up for his skating to some degree; especially if we can pair him with someone who has good mobility (like Orpik or Strait now, or Morrow in the future).
I think his mobility or skating in general is pretty solid, especially for a big guy. He definitely has a lanky, sort of ranginess to his frame that helps his game a lot. I would say he projects better than Strait as a legitimate #4/5 defender.

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05-04-2012, 05:40 PM
  #123
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I think his mobility or skating in general is pretty solid, especially for a big guy. He definitely has a lanky, sort of ranginess to his frame that helps his game a lot. I would say he projects better than Strait as a legitimate #4/5 defender.
Yeah, I was wondering why Strait was up and not Bortuzzo when they needed a defenseman. Seems like Bortuzzo was in line in front of Strait before his concussion.

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Old
05-04-2012, 05:42 PM
  #124
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I don't disagree that guys like Jeffrey or Tangradi may not have long-term futures with this club, but moving either one now would be the classic case of selling low. I think we need to put them on the big club next year, give them a chance to succeed, and then trade them for an appropriate return if they don't fit.

But I could see one or both of those guys being good fits on the top 3 lines. Tangradi has the size to be effective down low & decent hands, and Jeffrey has the skill+vision+hockey sense to be able to play with skilled players like our big 3 -- especially if he can transition to LW.





I agree that his skating leaves something to be desired, but he brings a different element that we don't have. The best comparison is a guy like Hal Gill. Bortuzzo isn't quite as big, but he has a great reach & wing span, and he can provide an element that we don't really have on our team in that regard, and that makes up for his skating to some degree; especially if we can pair him with someone who has good mobility (like Orpik or Strait now, or Morrow in the future).
I'm just saying lets not do to DJ what we did to Tangradi this year. Give them a legit shot during the regular season. You can't expect guys to produce points on six second shifts which Tangardi saw too many of this year.

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05-04-2012, 05:58 PM
  #125
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I'm just saying lets not do to DJ what we did to Tangradi this year. Give them a legit shot during the regular season. You can't expect guys to produce points on six second shifts which Tangardi saw too many of this year.
This point goes to the organization in general, they need to place a greater trust in their younger guys - let them sink or swim, to an extent, and really see what you have in these players. Couldn't be any worse than losing in the first round with the likes of Adams or Asham or Park.

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