HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The All-Purpose "Defense" Thread

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-04-2012, 06:19 PM
  #26
CanadianFlyer88
Moderator
Knublin' PPs
 
CanadianFlyer88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Van City
Posts: 14,076
vCash: 955
Collapsing into a bubble and forcing shots from the point isn't the only way to play team defense.

The Flyers already have the third most blocks in the playoffs behind New York and Washington.

__________________
I deride your truth handling abilities
CanadianFlyer88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 06:19 PM
  #27
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Last year one of the biggest reasons they lost was that Callahan broke his leg blocking a shot. playing that sort of defense is playing with fire.
Exactly. Shot blocking doesn't correlate to success because a high volume of blocked shots usually means a team is spending too much time in the defensive zone. Typically the league leaders in blocked shots in the regular season are composed of a lot of non-playoff teams. Detroit was dead last in blocked shots (regular season) in 2008 when they won the cup.

Those who think it's as simple as setting a goal to block 40 shots a game are missing the point. They shouldn't be allowing the other team to take that many in shots in the first place.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 06:19 PM
  #28
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,787
vCash: 156
Philly has blocked the 3rd most shots in the playoffs. New Jersey has blocked 8th most.

It's not like the Flyers aren't blocking shots.

Edit: Why hello, CF

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 06:21 PM
  #29
CanadianFlyer88
Moderator
Knublin' PPs
 
CanadianFlyer88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Van City
Posts: 14,076
vCash: 955
^


CanadianFlyer88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 06:24 PM
  #30
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Collapsing into a bubble and forcing shots from the point isn't the only way to play team defense.

The Flyers already have the third most blocks in the playoffs behind New York and Washington.
Which makes sense because all three teams are negative in the shot differential department.

Here is the problem

Devils: 3.6 shot differential
Flyers: -2.7 shot differential

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 06:30 PM
  #31
Bernie Parent 1974
Registered User
 
Bernie Parent 1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 3,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Collapsing into a bubble and forcing shots from the point isn't the only way to play team defense.
the fact that they blocked 40 shots in game 6, does not mean the defensive game plan was to collapse into a bubble and force shots from the point.

it was their best defensive effort, best coverage, & most convincing win.

no co-incidence. need more of that.

Bernie Parent 1974 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 06:35 PM
  #32
CanadianFlyer88
Moderator
Knublin' PPs
 
CanadianFlyer88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Van City
Posts: 14,076
vCash: 955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Which makes sense because all three teams are negative in the shot differential department.

Here is the problem

Devils: 3.6 shot differential
Flyers: -2.7 shot differential
I'm not terribly concerned if the Flyers are being outshot by two shots a game on the surface. We all know they're spending far too much time in the defnsive zone in the playoffs, though, so the negative differential is certainly a product of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
the fact that they blocked 40 shots in game 6, does not mean the defensive game plan was to collapse into a bubble and force shots from the point.

it was their best defensive effort, best coverage, & most convincing win.

no co-incidence. need more of that.
I wasn't saying that was the game plan. My point was that that's not the only way to play team defense.


Last edited by CanadianFlyer88: 05-04-2012 at 06:42 PM.
CanadianFlyer88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 06:40 PM
  #33
funghoul
retardo montalbon
 
funghoul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: upper drugs
Country: United States
Posts: 1,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
the fact that they blocked 40 shots in game 6, does not mean the defensive game plan was to collapse into a bubble and force shots from the point.

it was their best defensive effort, best coverage, & most convincing win.

no co-incidence. need more of that.
It also exposes how many chances their actually giving up a game and how much they have to go through to make up for their sloppy neutral zone coverage

funghoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 08:56 PM
  #34
sobrien
RAFFLCOPTER
 
sobrien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Jersey/Memphis
Country: United States
Posts: 6,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
yeah good point, 1 on 1 and Lilja is just starring at Poni kinda murder right there, Lilja has good games and bad games, this one was real bad
In Lilja's defense, it was a 2-on-1, and he did his job in playing the pass. But after the shot, I don't recall much effort to get to the loose puck. Granted, there shouldn't have been a loose puck/big rebound, and it didn't help that it landed right in Poni's path.

sobrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 09:23 PM
  #35
hckyplayer8
He's Gone!
 
hckyplayer8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicken Capital,PA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,860
vCash: 500
Flyers in the middle of the pack for shots against in the playoffs.

They are 8th with a 30.3 average.

Other notables

St Louis is the lowest of the second rounders with a 27 avg.
Phoenix is worst with a 36.7 avg.

However when you look at goals against per game

Flyers are second last with 4.11
St Louis is 10th with a 2.50
Phx is 3rd with 2.00

hmmmmmm

hckyplayer8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 12:37 AM
  #36
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I'm not terribly concerned if the Flyers are being outshot by two shots a game on the surface. We all know they're spending far too much time in the defnsive zone in the playoffs, though, so the negative differential is certainly a product of that.



I wasn't saying that was the game plan. My point was that that's not the only way to play team defense.
Being outshot by 2.7 shots a game doesn't seem like much, but it's actually quite significant. A -2.7 differential would have been the 5th worst in the league in the regular season for example.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 12:40 AM
  #37
sobrien
RAFFLCOPTER
 
sobrien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Jersey/Memphis
Country: United States
Posts: 6,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Flyers in the middle of the pack for shots against in the playoffs.

They are 8th with a 30.3 average.

Other notables

St Louis is the lowest of the second rounders with a 27 avg.
Phoenix is worst with a 36.7 avg.

However when you look at goals against per game

Flyers are second last with 4.11
St Louis is 10th with a 2.50
Phx is 3rd with 2.00

hmmmmmm
hmmmmmm very good defensive systems and great defensive coaches on them there teams. Imagine that.

sobrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 12:42 AM
  #38
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Flyers in the middle of the pack for shots against in the playoffs.

They are 8th with a 30.3 average.

Other notables

St Louis is the lowest of the second rounders with a 27 avg.
Phoenix is worst with a 36.7 avg.

However when you look at goals against per game

Flyers are second last with 4.11
St Louis is 10th with a 2.50
Phx is 3rd with 2.00

hmmmmmm
Amazing that most of the good shot differential teams were eliminated or are losing. Maybe score effects are influencing the totals.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 12:42 AM
  #39
Ryker
Registered User
 
Ryker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Triangle, NC, USA
Country: Slovenia
Posts: 2,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Being outshot by 2.7 shots a game doesn't seem like much, but it's actually quite significant. A -2.7 differential would have been the 5th worst in the league in the regular season for example.
It's also quite a change from the regular season, when we were +3.8. To be fair, though, with stronger competition, some drop was to be expected.

Ryker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 01:13 AM
  #40
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 31,422
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Philly has blocked the 3rd most shots in the playoffs. New Jersey has blocked 8th most.

It's not like the Flyers aren't blocking shots.

Edit: Why hello, CF
I gotta ask, whats the deal with the name change and avatar? lose a bet? Not meaning to derail the thread here but I had to ask.

Onto the topic at hand. I dont think as a group they expected the Devils to be this agressive with the pressure on the puck. As a group they havent handled the NJ forecheck well at all. They are also getting killed on the boards and along the walls as well. Not exactly a recipe for success.
Too many times they cant make that first pass out of the defensive zone. Its been frustrating to watch.
Like its been said already right now Coburn is the only defenseman whos been holding up.

GoneFullHextall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 05:53 AM
  #41
Bernie Parent 1974
Registered User
 
Bernie Parent 1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 3,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
My point was that that's not the only way to play team defense.
and i don't think they went out and said 'we have to block everything'

that's why I said 'trying to block 40 shots' [the actual number they get really isn't the point] it was their best defensive effort, best coverage, & most convincing win. the shot blocking was just a by product of a better effort defensively. [not a 'plan' on its own]

i'd rather they just have tighter coverage, i'm not fixated on shot blocking numbers. there's no doubt we are giving up far too many breakaways, and chances by guys who are left all alone. far too many guys not making the effort to get a man in our zone.

Bernie Parent 1974 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 06:53 AM
  #42
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
40 blocked shots means you were spending far too much time in your own end. You don't win championships if you are constantly losing puck possession battles.

It's simple. Spend less time in your own zone and you won't need to block as many shots.
No I am just saying they aren't committed to team defense and that's how you lose playoff series. Why Lavi can't see that I have no idea. And it's made more perplexing because they clearly don't have the defense required to play pond hockey. Yet they do.

JXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 07:05 AM
  #43
Bernie Parent 1974
Registered User
 
Bernie Parent 1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 3,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
I am just saying they aren't committed to team defense and that's how you lose playoff series.

exactly. basic defensive principles.

Bernie Parent 1974 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 09:25 AM
  #44
Psuhockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,861
vCash: 500
I think the Flyers do need an upgrade in personnel on the defense this offseason but a change in attitude of a few forwards in needed as well. Due to the focus of attacking in Laviolette's system, too many prominent forwards have been cheating, most notable Briere, although last game was better. You can see that type of cheating in young guys like Schenn and JVR now. That needs to be corrected but it is pretty hard to yell at young guys for doing it and then letting Briere get away with it.

Psuhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 09:48 AM
  #45
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 110,429
vCash: 5602
The Flyers lack of defense yielded just 3 more shots on goal in the 2nd, 3rd, and Overtime than it did in the 1st period. Likewise in Game 1 when they gave up 11 shots after the 1st period after giving up 15 in the 1st. In Game 3, 3 of the 4 goals had nothing to do with a lack of defense: Elias PP goal, Parise was a turnover behind the net, Ponikarovsky was a bad line change. Kovalchuk was the only one where they completely blew the defensive coverage.

Guess what happens when you trade away your two best defensive forwards and let the third go on waivers.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 10:19 AM
  #46
BleedOrange
BuildThroughTheDraft
 
BleedOrange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oshawa Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,055
vCash: 500
I think Grossmann is still being affected by the concussion he doesnt look right and if so he shouldnt be out there.

BleedOrange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 11:42 AM
  #47
hckyplayer8
He's Gone!
 
hckyplayer8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicken Capital,PA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,860
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
hmmmmmm very good defensive systems and great defensive coaches on them there teams. Imagine that.
Or they have netminders that don't let in 3+ goals a game.

hckyplayer8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 12:20 PM
  #48
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 31,422
vCash: 50
you cant teach defense to guys that have never played defense their entire career.

GoneFullHextall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 01:17 PM
  #49
funghoul
retardo montalbon
 
funghoul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: upper drugs
Country: United States
Posts: 1,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Or they have netminders that don't let in 3+ goals a game.
That really is your only thing. You hate the goalie. every other facet of what makes a team good or bad you either completely ignore or is over your head.

funghoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 01:20 PM
  #50
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 31,422
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
That really is your only thing. You hate the goalie. every other facet of what makes a team good or bad you either completely ignore or is over your head.
well then there are certian people who want to absolve Bryzgalov of little to no fault.

GoneFullHextall is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:08 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.