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Gomez to be bought out? - Louis Jean on FAN 590

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Old
05-05-2012, 06:31 AM
  #326
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
Not his fault he was offerred this contract of course,but personally I would feel highly embarassed with my teammates knowing I couldn't deliver,whereas he looks like he's having a great time.He has no problem with this,that's the problem.
and you know that how ?

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05-05-2012, 06:38 AM
  #327
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and you know that how ?
Hasn't retired has he?

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05-05-2012, 06:53 AM
  #328
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Come on guys McKenzie told you all this days ago on TSN990. Anyone that thinks buying out Gomez on Habs should lose their job or resign. You bury him in the minors & free up the Cap Space, that's business. Buyout! Forget Parise if we buy him out, then we pay a Ghost 4 Million a year, Come on people re-search, think!
Hehe.

Don't mean to be a party pooper but forget about Parise no matter what. While you're at it forget about Suter too.

Think about it for a second.

Why would an american - who is a top UFA in this year's off season - ever pick the one team where he'll pay higher taxes, suffer through long and cold winters, get the most pressure from fans/medias and all that for the privilege of playing for the 27th ranked team the season before ? I don't see too many compelling reasons to do that if given the choice between say Detroit and Montreal.

There are precious few reasons to come play for the habs as the situation stands right now.

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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
Obviously for the good of the team you bury Gomez, it is a no brainer. The only question is whether Molson will pony up the few million ( I think thats what it is ) to bury him over buying him out at two thirds of his pay. This is where we see if Molson puts his money where his mouth is.
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Originally Posted by MaxPac67 View Post
He has to. If NYC can do it so can Montreal. As far as the class thing, Montreal broke every class record last year & Gomez is from that era, we need to start new & Scott is not part of new.

Hey let him play his way back from Hamilton.
The more I think about it, the less I think it actually matters.

Even if we bury Gomez, and Kaberle, how are we even going to spend to the cap. We're not signing Suter or Parise forget it. Bergevin won't be able to turn the team around in one summer. Even if you believe the DD line will not miss a beat and pick up where they started with zero decline in production (color me doubtful), that means we have Plekanec playing with Gionta and someone else. I don't think Gionta and Plekanec are an especially good match, and we don't have that someone else. And looking at the list of UFAs, only Parise could realistically change things up. But as I said above, forget it.

I mean, I hate Gomez as much as anyone, hated the deal when it happened and ever since. I think Gomez only deserves the ECHL. But the fact of the matter is that unless we sign a bunch of extremely average players to dumb long term deals like what the panthers did, we likely won't make the playoffs. Doing what the panthers did is wrong and dumb. Hope we don't take that quick fix route. And if we don't do what the panthers did, then what do we need the cap room for ? There will be plenty to sign Price/Subban.


Last edited by E = CH²: 05-05-2012 at 07:06 AM.
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05-05-2012, 09:59 AM
  #329
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Its easier on the pocket book for Geoff to buy out Gomer. Geoff has to pay Gomers full contract sending him down. If he buys him out it costs him less. The winner is Geoff for saving money, and the players and fans get the raw end of the deal being stuck with Gomers cap hit.

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05-05-2012, 10:33 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by LastRide View Post
Its easier on the pocket book for Geoff to buy out Gomer. Geoff has to pay Gomers full contract sending him down. If he buys him out it costs him less. The winner is Geoff for saving money, and the players and fans get the raw end of the deal being stuck with Gomers cap hit.
All true, but you have to wonder what the habs will/can/could do with that cap space.

I personally wonder if there will even be enough good players that are worth signing or trading for to get us to the cap.

I don't think the habs should handcuff themselves to long term UFA deals just because they have the money to spend to the cap. I think the habs should be looking for top notch players, but if none are available, you don't do what Gainey did in 09. And I'm very afraid that there's only 2 options : stay pat and not spend to the cap OR repeat of 09 with signing average players to insane deals.

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05-05-2012, 10:35 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by LastRide View Post
Its easier on the pocket book for Geoff to buy out Gomer. Geoff has to pay Gomers full contract sending him down. If he buys him out it costs him less. The winner is Geoff for saving money, and the players and fans get the raw end of the deal being stuck with Gomers cap hit.
Yeah... oh well at least the cap hit is an improvement over 7M+ as much as I would have rather him in Hamilton.

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05-05-2012, 10:36 AM
  #332
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The question is does Gomez have a no movement clause that would restrict the Habs from sending him to the AHL, making a buyout the only way to "get rid of him"?

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05-05-2012, 10:36 AM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastRide View Post
Its easier on the pocket book for Geoff to buy out Gomer. Geoff has to pay Gomers full contract sending him down. If he buys him out it costs him less. The winner is Geoff for saving money, and the players and fans get the raw end of the deal being stuck with Gomers cap hit.
That and I also see it as a move to keep Gomez away from the AHL team. While he is a good guy and a good teammate, who knows what kind of effect his presence will have on the prospects down in Hamilton.

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05-05-2012, 10:41 AM
  #334
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Gomez is getting bought out IMO. It's a long term decision and as weird as it sound, it's an opportunity for the habs to improve their image all around the league by handling Gomez's situation with class and tact.


Sure we'd all like to send him to the AHL and get all the cap space we can, but it's not a healthy situation.

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05-05-2012, 10:49 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
Cant see Molson resigning as owner but given the reality of the Gomez contract halmstringing the GM and team in terms of Cap space and the great upset fans feel over this trade, keeping Gomez on the books for 4 years would be a horrible move and while I know a team is an investment, not a collectible, given the bucks the Habs bring in a buyout over burying would show me Molson is really about the money, and icing a top team just secondary.
Yes..and you would by far not be the only one to think that which would be damaging. But from what I've seen of Molson in the past couple of months, I believe at least at this point that he wouldn't proceed in that manner...not to save 3.3 mil. I mean look at how quickly he pulled the trigger on Gauthier as soon as we were mathematically eliminated from the playoffs and how he has conducted things since. Not to mention this is a business after all, and what makes the most business sense even if you do take the genuine passion I think he does have for the team out of the equation, is to make the squad better. I don't think creating dead cap space for the next 4 years does that. I think we'll see them wait to see what happens with the CBA and then either buy him out free of consequence if that option does arrive, or bury him. Nothing else IMO is acceptable.


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05-05-2012, 11:17 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
Gomez is getting bought out IMO. It's a long term decision and as weird as it sound, it's an opportunity for the habs to improve their image all around the league by handling Gomez's situation with class and tact.


Sure we'd all like to send him to the AHL and get all the cap space we can, but it's not a healthy situation.
The best PR move is to send him down so he loses no money and allow him to go play wherever he wants.

NHL hockey is about WINNING not who can look the nicest. If we had 3-4 players with big contracts in the AHL/Europe then maybe it would be a factor but not for ONE guy playing well below his cap hit.

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05-05-2012, 11:42 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
Obviously for the good of the team you bury Gomez, it is a no brainer. The only question is whether Molson will pony up the few million ( I think thats what it is ) to bury him over buying him out at two thirds of his pay. This is where we see if Molson puts his money where his mouth is.
Molson has said numerous times, he will do what it takes to win...period...we will find out fairly soon...

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05-05-2012, 11:48 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Hehe.

Don't mean to be a party pooper but forget about Parise no matter what. While you're at it forget about Suter too.

Think about it for a second.

Why would an american - who is a top UFA in this year's off season - ever pick the one team where he'll pay higher taxes, suffer through long and cold winters, get the most pressure from fans/medias and all that for the privilege of playing for the 27th ranked team the season before ? I don't see too many compelling reasons to do that if given the choice between say Detroit and Montreal.

There are precious few reasons to come play for the habs as the situation stands right now.
...
Maybe you should ask that question to Eric Cole

The argument is too subjective.

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05-05-2012, 11:52 AM
  #339
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Maybe you should ask that question to Eric Cole

The argument is too subjective.
...or Gionta.

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05-05-2012, 12:08 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
Gomez is getting bought out IMO. It's a long term decision and as weird as it sound, it's an opportunity for the habs to improve their image all around the league by handling Gomez's situation with class and tact.


Sure we'd all like to send him to the AHL and get all the cap space we can, but it's not a healthy situation.
I'm not a fan of doing this but I agree with you it's the way it's going to play out whether we like it or not. Blaming Gomez while he's here and he's going to take the blame when he's gone.

I think the cost of buying out Gomez will be Plekanec (trade) because we won't be able to afford to get him a couple of decent UFA wingers to play with.

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05-05-2012, 12:30 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Maybe you should ask that question to Eric Cole

The argument is too subjective.
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
...or Gionta.
You both missed the point.

The point is that Parise and Suter are elite players who will get top money and top terms from just about any team they want.

Gionta and Cole were not in that position.

I'm not saying we won't be able to sign UFAs at all.... just saying the top ones have no reason to come here because they can get same cash/terms from other teams, pay less taxes, etc. Gionta couldn't have got 25M/5years from another team. When Lou Lamoriello heard we were giving Gionta that much he told him : take it and run.

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05-05-2012, 12:31 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
Gomez is getting bought out IMO. It's a long term decision and as weird as it sound, it's an opportunity for the habs to improve their image all around the league by handling Gomez's situation with class and tact.


Sure we'd all like to send him to the AHL and get all the cap space we can, but it's not a healthy situation.
I disagree. If the rumours of last Winter were right, PG had a deal in place to ship him to the Islanders only to have Gomez kibosh the transaction. Why? Probably because he didn't want to play for a crap organization. It would seem Scotty's only thinking about himself, which is fine - all's fair in love and hockey, but he can't begrudge the team when they do the same.

In any event, whether that rumour is true or not, Gomer hasn't shown a willingness to work his way out of this stupor at all. I don't think he's seen the middle of the ice in over a year. His positioning is lousy and his effort level varies from okay to poor.

I like Scott Gomez. Always have. But if anyone thinks that's a reason to swallow that kind of a cap hit over the next 4 years to honour a contract and a player who isn't showing you the same courtesy, I beg to differ. If he had what it took to stay in the league he would've proved it down the stretch this past year. As for the team's image: I think everyone knows the opportunities that he's been afforded here. I doubt the players around the league will be holding any candlelight vigils for the boy.

If he's worth the risk, put him on waivers. Someone will take a chance on him. If not, well... we're beaming you down, Scotty!

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05-05-2012, 12:40 PM
  #343
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You both missed the point.

The point is that Parise and Suter are elite players who will get top money and top terms from just about any team they want.

Gionta and Cole were not in that position.

I'm not saying we won't be able to sign UFAs at all.... just saying the top ones have no reason to come here because they can get same cash/terms from other teams, pay less taxes, etc. Gionta couldn't have got 25M/5years from another team. When Lou Lamoriello heard we were giving Gionta that much he told him : take it and run.
It's a good point to make, but it isn't the only factor in taking this kind of decision. That was my point. Unless you asked Parise and Sutter, they might actually be cold weather lovers who would do anything to play for the highest decorated hockey team in the world while stuffing their faces with poutine every day. ( wishful thinking yes, but you get the logic )

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05-05-2012, 12:53 PM
  #344
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I appologize if this has already been discussed as I haven't read through the entire thread, only parts of it. But if the money is an issue and the reason they are looking to buy him out instead of sending him down, than why not ask around the league if there are teams willing to take him at half the price? He doesn't have a no movement clause so the team can put him on waivers and then immediately on re-entry after he passes. This way Molson gets a bigger real cash savings, only paying 1/2 instead of 2/3 in a buyout, and the caphit is only for two years instead of the 4 in a buyout. And the 2 years will basically be the same as the first two of a buyout anyways. But I'm not sure there are even teams out there willing to take him at 1/2 the cost lol.

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05-05-2012, 01:19 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
It's a good point to make, but it isn't the only factor in taking this kind of decision. That was my point. Unless you asked Parise and Sutter, they might actually be cold weather lovers who would do anything to play for the highest decorated hockey team in the world while stuffing their faces with poutine every day. ( wishful thinking yes, but you get the logic )
I named numerous factors, possibly the most important and oft considered ones, all of which are against us :
-Cold weather ? About as cold as it gets.
-Higher taxes ? Yes, the worst.
-Rabid fans/medias ? Yes, the very craziest.
-Good team ? No, 3rd worst team last season

Your post reminds me of Jim Carey from dumb and dumber : "So you're saying there's a chance ?"

Yeah, I'm sure there is a weirdo star player who would want to play here for whatever reasons. But the fact is that for teams without our drawbacks, it's already difficult to sign these top players. For the habs, it's mission impossible 99% of the time.

Plus we want to attire players for the right reasons. Because we are a winning team that is well respected. Gotta make the team better first, then we'll have a small shot at signing those players.

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05-05-2012, 01:20 PM
  #346
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He's not reponsible for his contract, it's not like if he should of said: hey I'm not worth 7m$ a year and I'm overrated, just give me 3m$ a year.

We could just send him to the minors but it would come always with the possibility of bringing him back when an injury occurs on the regular lineup, depending on whatever the coaching/management thinks of his performance in the minors. I think it's better to just close the books and get rid of the problem right away even with 3.5m$ of his salary still on the book for this year, something that is manageable and better than 5m$.
He is responsible for his effort level and **** play. He is also responsible for the contract he knowingly signed. Ofcourse you are responsible for any contract you sign, how idiotic.

He doesn't deserve to be bought out, if we are paying him for nothing I don't want to see his ugly face in the NHL for 2 years.

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05-05-2012, 01:25 PM
  #347
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Highly doubt Gomez will be bought out. Its better to bite his salary and send him to the farm. Hence getting ride of $7 mil off our roster for the next 2 years. It's cheaper to send him to the farm than buy out. It will cost the Habs $12 mil in cap space for buyout.

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05-05-2012, 03:25 PM
  #348
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Highly doubt Gomez will be bought out. Its better to bite his salary and send him to the farm. Hence getting ride of $7 mil off our roster for the next 2 years. It's cheaper to send him to the farm than buy out. It will cost the Habs $12 mil in cap space for buyout.
It's cheaper on the cap, it's more expensive in terms of actual dollars being paid.

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05-05-2012, 03:36 PM
  #349
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Originally Posted by skipp18 View Post
The question is does Gomez have a no movement clause that would restrict the Habs from sending him to the AHL, making a buyout the only way to "get rid of him"?
That's within NHL teams/cities, not between a NHL team and its AHL affiliate club.

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05-05-2012, 03:44 PM
  #350
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That's within NHL teams/cities, not between a NHL team and its AHL affiliate club.
This is wrong. No movement clause = can't be sent down to AHL or traded.

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