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5/2: Ownership gives DW vote of confidence

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05-05-2012, 02:32 AM
  #151
WTFetus
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
And Richards was from looking at results because all denied a personal connection with him before he was brought aboard. Ostensibly a merit hire (as was TM himself).
Richards didn't have that great results as a HC, but wasn't he a pretty solid AC? I remember the PP being pretty good when he was here.

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05-05-2012, 12:07 PM
  #152
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Richards didn't have that great results as a HC, but wasn't he a pretty solid AC? I remember the PP being pretty good when he was here.
He had huge results for Wilkes-Barre, the Pens affiliate. 2 years in the AHL, lost in the second round and lost in the finals. Good W/L record as well. He was an AC in Milwaukee where they had a pretty good record on W/L and on cranking out prospects.

Just another oddity. For all of Drew mouthing off about the Saskatchewan mafia, Richards, Shaw and Woodcroft are all US, not Canadian. Very interesting.


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05-05-2012, 01:28 PM
  #153
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He had huge results for Wilkes-Barre, the Pens affiliate. 2 years in the AHL, lost in the second round and lost in the finals. Good W/L record as well. He was an AC in Milwaukee where they had a pretty good record on W/L and on cranking out prospects.

Just another oddity. For all of Drew mouthing off about the Saskatchewan mafia, Richards, Shaw and Woodcroft are all US, not Canadian. Very interesting.
Since you mentioned this...

We always hear the "PR" number of the players who Roy Sommer has sent to the NHL. Does anyone know how that number ranks against other NHL teams with players making the NHL after playing in their organization over the same amount of time Sommer has coached SJ's AHL prospects? And if you eliminate player that have played in the NHL less than one full season what those numbers look like?

SJ's mantra for years has been "draft and develop"...one has to ask has that really worked when your announced number of players going through your system to the NHL includes players like:
Riley Armstrong (2 games)
Sean Gauthier (1)
Mike Iggulden (1 with SJ, 11 with NYI)
Lukas Kaspar (16)
Ryan Kraft (7)
Mike Moore (6)
Dmitri Patzold (3)
Nolan Schaefer (7)
Ryan Vesce (19)
Chad Wiseman (4 with SJ, 5 with NYR)
Steven Zalewski (3 with SJ, 7 with NJ)

So it would be interesting to see how the numbers compare to other organizations...

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05-05-2012, 02:16 PM
  #154
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Since you mentioned this...

We always hear the "PR" number of the players who Roy Sommer has sent to the NHL. Does anyone know how that number ranks against other NHL teams with players making the NHL after playing in their organization over the same amount of time Sommer has coached SJ's AHL prospects? And if you eliminate player that have played in the NHL less than one full season what those numbers look like?

SJ's mantra for years has been "draft and develop"...one has to ask has that really worked when your announced number of players going through your system to the NHL includes players like:
Riley Armstrong (2 games)
Sean Gauthier (1)
Mike Iggulden (1 with SJ, 11 with NYI)
Lukas Kaspar (16)
Ryan Kraft (7)
Mike Moore (6)
Dmitri Patzold (3)
Nolan Schaefer (7)
Ryan Vesce (19)
Chad Wiseman (4 with SJ, 5 with NYR)
Steven Zalewski (3 with SJ, 7 with NJ)

So it would be interesting to see how the numbers compare to other organizations...
You are making me mess up my screen, but it really isn't fair. Almost all orgs have players like that. I did the retrospective at one point and had countless guys with small game counts leaguewide.

The acid test (and it can't be applied to expansion teams in their first 12 to 15 years) is to count the number of NHL regulars in the league who started with the Sharks. Guys on the season starting 23 man roster for various teams. How many originated with the Sharks? The Sharks are just about treading water. The easy way to do it is to count how many homegrown on the Sharks roster and then add the players who came through the Sharks system but are now elsewhere (Ehrhoff, Carle, Bernier, Goc, Seto, Michalek, McGinn, Whitney, Samuelsson, Stuart, Gorges, Nabby, Kiprusoff - 13 players projecting to next year with no movement). The Sharks have JT, Havlat, Galiardi, Zeus, Moore, Winnik, Winchester, Vandemeer, White, Burns, Boyle and Niemi which makes 13 from elsewhere. The net is 0.

Zero sounds OK, but they were ahead of the curve not too long ago. And zero is average or a little less so as teams like Winnipeg, CBJ, Minny and Nashville haven't had time to build through duration. Nashville, surprisingly, is a ahead of the curve. When I did the study previously, Montreal, Colorado and NJ were ahead of the curve. There are other teams that have taken their place since. By eyeball, it looks like Chicago, Boston and the Rags have stepped up since I did the study. And there are teams that stink like Edmonton, Calgary, Florida, Carolina and a few others. Detroit has traditionally not been a hotbed for quantity, but their quality is off the charts relative to others. Detroit focuses on skill and has tended to buy their lower lineup guys in the past.

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05-05-2012, 05:08 PM
  #155
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You are making me mess up my screen, but it really isn't fair. Almost all orgs have players like that. I did the retrospective at one point and had countless guys with small game counts leaguewide.
How many of the other organizations use "draft and develop" as their mantra? Because that's my point, San Jose makes claims that sound good but might not stand up to some scrutiny if the information was more readily available.

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05-05-2012, 05:24 PM
  #156
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How many of the other organizations use "draft and develop" as their mantra? Because that's my point, San Jose makes claims that sound good but might not stand up to some scrutiny if the information was more readily available.
But the Sharks did draft and develop. Look at their 06/07 roster. Their 07 draft was also very impressive.

Now you can always argue that in trying to win the Stanley cup the Sharks moved away from draft and develop to trade and tweak. That would be a fair criticism.

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05-05-2012, 05:39 PM
  #157
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How many of the other organizations use "draft and develop" as their mantra? Because that's my point, San Jose makes claims that sound good but might not stand up to some scrutiny if the information was more readily available.
They were strong from 97-05. Since then, very spotty. And there are some monster holes even in their good years (late first round and high skill/speed players particularly for the lower lines).

We had a mantra of speed when DW first came on board. That one obviously has gone by the boards and finally this year with acknowledgement from the org itself. The speed admission didn't come out until they were reamed for it on a national broadcast although DW touched on it with the Havlat trade. Same for draft and develop since DW went into "tweak" mode. IMO tweak is a scalpel approach; lately DW has been wielding a meat cleaver as he gets more desperate. They will be well into Carolina mode before DW admits that they aren't draft and develop at this rate. (Just for the chuckles of others check the reliance on Plymouth by Carolina with no hits in the last decade and a half, even worse than relying on the 67s.)

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05-05-2012, 05:40 PM
  #158
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But the Sharks did draft and develop. Look at their 06/07 roster. Their 07 draft was also very impressive.

Now you can always argue that in trying to win the Stanley cup the Sharks moved away from draft and develop to trade and tweak. That would be a fair criticism.
That's what I'm saying..."draft and develop" went out the window some time ago but they still talk like it's how they do business.

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