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Barry Trotz needs to be fired

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Old
05-05-2012, 01:34 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by golfmade View Post
Even if we wanted to fire him who would we replace him with?
Haha this exactly. Some of you guys are crazy; grass is rarely greener when it comes to NHL coaching outside of the honeymoon period.

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05-05-2012, 01:37 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Is Trotz hindering Wilson or is the fire in Wilson's game a direct result of the benching? Many of the things he's doing well are what he was called out for by the staff. There is a possible correlation.

The PP wasn't just Shea. For all of the credit given, he scored 10 of 54 PP goals. Guys like Smith and Hornqvist did a lot there as well.

On Smith ... he started great for about five weeks, then fell of the planet at ES. An overall decent rookie campaign, but, he had some issues which began before the missed empty netter.
It's the bolded part; he played a ton of games this year, but it took a benching to get him where he's been in games 3 and 4.

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05-05-2012, 01:42 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Barry Trotz needs to be fired. - opposing team fan

what's hidden in the subliminals (So he can coach my team!)
We'll happily take him off your hands here in Columbus! That way you can continue to take advantage of how he clearly sucks so bad.

Heck, while you're at it, just send us Mitch Korn also, since apparently everything's going wrong and he's clearly the reason why Rinne had that gaffe in game 1.

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05-05-2012, 01:44 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
on wilson.. I think there are MANY guys that have been worse than him. he just gets the short end of the stick for not being a veteran. the benching probably has something to do with it but the skills are there. give him every chance next year otherwise, I think we all agree, its time to part ways

10 of 54 PP goals is still a good amount from a defenseman. that doesn't include all his shots tipped by hornqvist. weber also opens up tons of space on the PP that none of our inept PP forwards can take advantage of (fisher, legwand, sk)

smith did start great and fizzed out. still put up great numbers. if he isn't in a top 6 role, send him to milwaukee for developmental purposes. he is alot like wilson in that he isn't going to succeed as much on the 4th line. smith may have went cold but if our other forwards got scratched for the same.. sk and fisher wouldn't be seeing ice time imho.
Before the time in the press box, Wilson wasn't playing like he has the last two games. If it took sitting him to get him to buy in, then Trotz isn't ruining his development.

What to do with Smith next season depends on who is back and what style we run as a result. If we try to run a similar third line next season as this, he'll fit as a top nine winger and fill in center. If we run a less scoring oriented third line, Milwaukee is the better fit if he doesn't crack the top six.

Weber's PP performance was similar to that of Garrison and Kronwall. We focus more on the "give it to Shea and get out of the way" than happens in reality. He is a big part of the scheme, but far from the only thing the PP used to score.

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05-05-2012, 01:47 PM
  #80
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This is also worth saying: If we fired Trotz, what better coach is out there to replace him? I'd love to here some of the torch-and-pitchfork people right now name a coach better than trotz who is unemployed right now.

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05-05-2012, 01:57 PM
  #81
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Trotz is great at getting good milage out of mostly average players (SK, Fisher, Legwand, Walker, Orzagh, Ward, etc). Even established guys who were deemed expendable by their other teams do well under Trotz (Arnott, Kariya, Sullivan, Dumont). He's coached many cast off defenseman into becoming serviceable NHL defenseman (Zanon, SOB, Eaton, etc).

It was not as easy decision to keep Radulov out of the game. While Radulov has skills, he certainly has baggage. But Trotz has been locked into doing "The Preadator Way" for so long, it's out of his comfort zone do anything different. It's not the answer to win deep in the playoffs, unless Pekka becomes absolutely dominant for the entire playoffs. Pekka has had some good playoff games, but he's also had an equal share of very average outings in his playoff career.

We do not have the skill to play a game like Philly does (especially when we keep Radulov and AK out of the lineup). Even with them in the lineup, our skill level does not come close.

I'm frustrated with the decision to sit Radulov as there is little doubt in mind he gave us a better chance that Yip, SK, Spaling, and quite a few others.

But he shouldn't be fired at this point. He consistently gets a lot of a little. Tippett is the only one in his league right now. But let's face it, Smith is playing better than Rinne. If Pekka had a better game in 1 and/or 2, this series would at worst be tied.

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05-05-2012, 02:02 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
This is also worth saying: If we fired Trotz, what better coach is out there to replace him? I'd love to here some of the torch-and-pitchfork people right now name a coach better than trotz who is unemployed right now.
IF Mark Hunter continues the same kind of success his brother had, HIM

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05-05-2012, 02:03 PM
  #83
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Barry Trotz has consistently done a great job with very limited resources. Why should he be fired?

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05-05-2012, 02:09 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
This is also worth saying: If we fired Trotz, what better coach is out there to replace him? I'd love to here some of the torch-and-pitchfork people right now name a coach better than trotz who is unemployed right now.
There are none.

And while the Preds have raised their profile quite a bit in the past few years, we aren't exactly a destination job. Not just outside the O-6, but behind a number of other traditional powers. And of the coaches that might be on the hot seat, I'm not sure I would take any of them over Trotz right now.

Here are the current coaches of the other 29 teams:

West:
Chicago - Joel Quenneville
Columbus - Todd Richards (interim)
Detroit - Mike Babcock
St. Louis - Ken Hitchcock
Calgary - vacant
Colorado - Joe Sacco
Edmonton - Tom Renney
Minnesota - Mike Yeo
Vancouver - Alain Vigneault
Anaheim - Bruce Boudreau
Dallas - Glen Gulutzan
Los Angeles - Darryl Sutter
Phoenix - Dave Tippett
San Jose - Todd McLellan

East:
New Jersey - Peter DeBoer
New York (I) - Jack Capuano
New York (R) - John Tortorella
Philadelphia - Peter Laviolette
Pittsburgh - Dan Bylsma
Boston - Claude Julien
Buffalo - Lindy Ruff
Montreal - vacant
Ottawa - Paul MacLean
Toronto - Randy Carlyle
Carolina - Kirk Muller
Florida - Kevin Dineen
Tampa Bay - Guy Boucher
Washington - Dale Hunter
Winnipeg - Claude Noel

Not only would we be competing with 2 Canadian franchises for available coaches (well, probably one after one of them snaps Trotz up), but I don't see any good coaches that we would have a realistic chance of prying away.

The best choice might be an assistant or an AHL guy...but I don't have enough knowledge to figure out who that might be...and if that's the move we take, we're firing a proven coach over a probable gamble. Just doesn't make sense to me.

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05-05-2012, 02:20 PM
  #85
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I'm still going to defend Trotz on this one, but I'll give it this much: let's hold onto him and if someone gets fired that we think is better, then we move him. No need yet.

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05-05-2012, 02:25 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BourqueBourqueBork View Post
Not only would we be competing with 2 Canadian franchises for available coaches (well, probably one after one of them snaps Trotz up), but I don't see any good coaches that we would have a realistic chance of prying away.
There's probably be a PR backlash in Montreal if they picked up Trotz - yes, it's absurd, I know, and yes, the fans of that team take a lot of crap for that that they don't deserve, but frankly the tail is wagging the dog up there right now and until they learn to start setting reporters on fire or something that's probably not going to change. (Which sucks for hockey in general, but, well, that happens sometimes.)

There's also some talk that Vigneault may have worn out his welcome in Vancouver. And we may not end up keeping Todd Richards.

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05-05-2012, 02:30 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
I'm still going to defend Trotz on this one, but I'll give it this much: let's hold onto him and if someone gets fired that we think is better, then we move him. No need yet.
I don't approve of every move Trotz makes. Sometimes he makes me pull my hair out.

But then I watch other games, see other coaches make questionable decisions, and read on other team boards that it is unacceptable for their team not advancing in the playoffs and winning the cup...FIRE THE COACH!!!

I'm not outright opposed to change...but the opportunity has to be there first. At this point in time, it makes no sense to me for us to get rid of Trotz. To me, a proven coach needs to be available, and Nashville needs to be in a situation where a change is NEEDED (i.e., coming off of a year missing the playoffs, poor performance, not meeting expectations, etc.).


The funny thing about this year was how many fans were claiming that this team had regressed offensively with the offseason moves...and how we'd be lucky to make the playoffs. I'm sure there will be similar panic this summer when we either don't sign a big name FA, or don't sign some of our pending UFAs.

It truly bothers me how many of our fans hate on Trotz and Poile, two men who are consistently in the discussion for the Jack Adams and the GM of the Year awards, respectively.

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05-05-2012, 02:31 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
There's probably be a PR backlash in Montreal if they picked up Trotz - yes, it's absurd, I know, and yes, the fans of that team take a lot of crap for that that they don't deserve, but frankly the tail is wagging the dog up there right now and until they learn to start setting reporters on fire or something that's probably not going to change. (Which sucks for hockey in general, but, well, that happens sometimes.)

There's also some talk that Vigneault may have worn out his welcome in Vancouver. And we may not end up keeping Todd Richards.
I would see Trotz returning to Western Canada and taking the Calgary job....and Montreal trying to lure Vigneault.

Trotzy isn't a Francophone...so that's kind of a problem for Montreal.

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05-05-2012, 03:06 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
This is also worth saying: If we fired Trotz, what better coach is out there to replace him? I'd love to here some of the torch-and-pitchfork people right now name a coach better than trotz who is unemployed right now.
I think this is a weak argument. I don't want Trotz fired let me go ahead and get that out of the way. But sometimes a coach might not be universally considered "better" than another coach but for whatever reason a team might respond to him in a positive way moreso than the "better" coach It's the same thing as one player sucking for one franchise and excelling for another. Vermette for Phoenix? Mediocre for CBJ. Good so far in Phoenix. It can be the same way for coaches. Sometimes a change is needed. A new voice and style can be good. However on the other foot it might fail horribly.

I see arguments made against Trotz that are valid. The main being he hasn't proved he can coach exceptional young talent and develop them properly. That does bother me. But he is a good coach and I'm fine with him ATM.

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05-05-2012, 03:13 PM
  #90
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The "who do you replace him with?" excuse is the weakest argument ever, yet it's used over and over and over and over and over and over...

Would anyone have hired Dave Tippett to replace him two years ago? Almost definitely not as he didn't fit the "clear upgrade" that people demand. Yet he's about to knock Trotz out of the playoffs.

Any time Tortarella or Hitchcock's name was brought up over the years, the Trotz lovers claimed they wanted absolutely no part of either one. Look at what they did with the Rangers and Blues this season.

Kevin Dineen never coached in the NHL before and took a mediocre Florida team to the playoffs this season. Same story with Dale Hunter in Washington.

I've really cooled off on the fire Trotz stuff, I thought the right time was 5 years ago. I'd be fine any time they want to replace him though, I just don't ever see Poile making that move until ownership forces him to do it, and while having local owners is great and they've really worked miracles in gaining community support for the Preds, they've consistently said they will make no hockey decisions and the hockey side of things is 100% in David Poile's power... so calling for Trotz to be fired, no matter what arguments and counter-arguments can be made for it, should almost be banned from message board discussion because it's never going to happen.

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05-05-2012, 03:18 PM
  #91
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Fire him? Why? Let him admit he has done some mistakes. Let him tweak his lines. Put the best players that need to play on a ice (no drama included, no favoritism) go to Phoenix win game 5, come back to Nashville and win game 6. Go back to Phoenix while pressure is on them and momentum on his side. Enjoy the game. I personally believe that if this Santa-Barbara is over we will see game 7

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05-05-2012, 03:23 PM
  #92
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When's the last time a coach got fired after getting his team to the 2nd round? Honestly curious question...

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05-05-2012, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
When's the last time a coach got fired after getting his team to the 2nd round? Honestly curious question...
probably never..

trotz circumstances are different. im on the fence with trotz. swinging back and forth.. lets see the rest of this series, summer, and start of next season goes.

its not out of the question that trotz message is getting stale.

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05-05-2012, 03:34 PM
  #94
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When's the last time a coach got fired after getting his team to the 2nd round? Honestly curious question...
Therrien was fired the next season (mid-season) after taking the Penguins to the Cup Finals. Ironically, they won the cup.

I certainly do not anticipate Trotz being at all considered to be fired. As much as I disagree with the decision to bench Radulov/AK another game, I don't want him fired. Also, Poile is loyal to fault and he will have to do something much worse for Poile to consider firing him.

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05-05-2012, 03:39 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
probably never..

trotz circumstances are different. im on the fence with trotz. swinging back and forth.. lets see the rest of this series, summer, and start of next season goes.

its not out of the question that trotz message is getting stale.
His message getting stale? I'd be inclined to agree with that if it weren't for this season as a whole.

The quick recap from July through now .... No big name signings in the off season, our lineup sucks and we won't do squat posts leading up to opening night, and the "fail for Nail" posts of late October and November. Spaling, aka Smithson 2.0, centering a line meant to score? Preposterous. Toots opposite Wilson? Laughable. That Halischuk guy doing anything notable? Wont happen. We can't survive without Ward and Sully ... blah, blah, blah. Then this team, receiving a stale message, somehow ended up as a top ten scoring club, number one on the PP, 7th on the PK, and the #4 seed ahead of the Wings, who the Preds eliminated in the first round.

Just not seeing the stale aspect showing here. Getting the team to win game three didn't seem stale. A one goal game where we had multiple chances to score, but, failed to capitalize ... that compete level doesn't indicate stale.

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05-05-2012, 03:55 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Therrien was fired the next season (mid-season) after taking the Penguins to the Cup Finals. Ironically, they won the cup.

I certainly do not anticipate Trotz being at all considered to be fired. As much as I disagree with the decision to bench Radulov/AK another game, I don't want him fired. Also, Poile is loyal to fault and he will have to do something much worse for Poile to consider firing him.
eh, that was in February of next season. I was more referring to a summer firing

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05-05-2012, 04:12 PM
  #97
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The "who do you replace him with?" excuse is the weakest argument ever, yet it's used over and over and over and over and over and over...

Would anyone have hired Dave Tippett to replace him two years ago? Almost definitely not as he didn't fit the "clear upgrade" that people demand. Yet he's about to knock Trotz out of the playoffs.

Any time Tortarella or Hitchcock's name was brought up over the years, the Trotz lovers claimed they wanted absolutely no part of either one. Look at what they did with the Rangers and Blues this season.

Kevin Dineen never coached in the NHL before and took a mediocre Florida team to the playoffs this season. Same story with Dale Hunter in Washington.

I've really cooled off on the fire Trotz stuff, I thought the right time was 5 years ago. I'd be fine any time they want to replace him though, I just don't ever see Poile making that move until ownership forces him to do it, and while having local owners is great and they've really worked miracles in gaining community support for the Preds, they've consistently said they will make no hockey decisions and the hockey side of things is 100% in David Poile's power... so calling for Trotz to be fired, no matter what arguments and counter-arguments can be made for it, should almost be banned from message board discussion because it's never going to happen.
Tippett is a great coach, no doubt...but I don't think he's clearly outcoaching Trotz. You could certainly argue that his system is working better. But a lot of the reason Phoenix is where they are today (up 3-1 in the second round) is because of Mike Smith being a hot, confident goaltender. Rinne has looked good, but his two games in Phoenix were shaky. If Rinne was as hot as Smith right now, this series very well could be tied, or even to our advantage.

Would I take Tippett as a coach? Sure. But I'm not so sure that firing Trotz to get him is the right move. It's more or less a sideways move.

Tortorella - also a good coach - is a bit eccentric for my tastes. As good as he is on the ice (and perhaps in person as well), he is terrible with the media. A bit of a drama queen. The only real advantage I see with Torts is that players seem to like him a bit, and he might be a good coach to have to lure free agents with.

Hitchcock - possibly going to get swept by the Kings. Nice turnaround this year...but he essentially employs the same system as Trotz. I can't think of a more sideways move than this. All those people who clamor about Trotz being an offense-killer...yet Hitch is OK?

Dineen has one season under his belt. No doubt he has done a great job rebuilding that team and motivating them...but aside from the sample size of one single season (with a ton of OTLs), what has he proved he has over Trotz? If Florida becomes a consistent playoff contender, and moves beyond the first round, I might buy that...but give him a few years. Let's see where he goes.

Hunter has done a great job corralling egos and managing a star-studded team and turning a chaos style team into a sound defensive team...but again, sample size. I like the way he coaches, but will the message last?


I do agree with your last point, though. Poile is super comfortable with Trotz. It will take a monumental failure by the Preds in order to oust Trotz. Ownership is smart to leave the hockey decisions to Poile. Poile is a proven and stable GM, and he deserves as much credit for anyone to why the Predators are where they are.

This franchise isn't without its faults...but I rather like the consistency we have as opposed to the rollercoaster other franchises have to deal with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
probably never..

trotz circumstances are different. im on the fence with trotz. swinging back and forth.. lets see the rest of this series, summer, and start of next season goes.

its not out of the question that trotz message is getting stale.
Yes, the message might be getting stale. That seems to happen a lot of places. Coaching turnovers in hockey are disturbingly numerous. It's really amazing he's been here as long as he has. But changing him for another coach...how long will that coach's message last? And how stale is the message, really, if we are back to where we were last year (that's a good thing, btw)?

It's hard to be patient when you feel like you're close...but if the message was truly stale, I think we would've been a lot more flat this season...not having a marked improvement in most areas of the game. More wins, more points, a higher seed, more offense, a better powerplay. The only thing that I think took a step back was the defense...and some of that can be attributed to starting 2 rookies, and occasionally a fringe NHLer in Hillen on the blue line.

Considering the majority of our team came up within this system, and have played for only one NHL coach (Trotz), I don't quite buy that the message is totally stale, yet.

Most franchises go through a lot of ups and downs...I think it's remarkable how consistent we have been. There's only one team that has had the same level of consistency since the lockout -- the Detroit Red Wings. I don't think it's an accident, either, considering we have the same GM, head coach, goalie coach, associate coach (Horachek was an assistant, and Peterson is will with the team), and stength coach since the lockout. Even Lane Lambert came up through the coaching system via Milwaukee, so a lot of the players were familiar with him, too.

I firmly believe the system isn't broke...so I don't see why we need to fix it. Hiring a new coach isn't some sort of guarantee that our franchise will reach new heights. We're reaching them every year without the change.

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05-05-2012, 04:13 PM
  #98
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There are none.

And while the Preds have raised their profile quite a bit in the past few years, we aren't exactly a destination job. Not just outside the O-6, but behind a number of other traditional powers. And of the coaches that might be on the hot seat, I'm not sure I would take any of them over Trotz right now.

Here are the current coaches of the other 29 teams:

West:
Chicago - Joel Quenneville
Columbus - Todd Richards (interim)
Detroit - Mike Babcock
St. Louis - Ken Hitchcock
Calgary - vacant
Colorado - Joe Sacco
Edmonton - Tom Renney
Minnesota - Mike Yeo
Vancouver - Alain Vigneault
Anaheim - Bruce Boudreau
Dallas - Glen Gulutzan
Los Angeles - Darryl Sutter
Phoenix - Dave Tippett
San Jose - Todd McLellan

East:
New Jersey - Peter DeBoer
New York (I) - Jack Capuano
New York (R) - John Tortorella
Philadelphia - Peter Laviolette
Pittsburgh - Dan Bylsma
Boston - Claude Julien
Buffalo - Lindy Ruff
Montreal - vacant
Ottawa - Paul MacLean
Toronto - Randy Carlyle
Carolina - Kirk Muller
Florida - Kevin Dineen
Tampa Bay - Guy Boucher
Washington - Dale Hunter
Winnipeg - Claude Noel

Not only would we be competing with 2 Canadian franchises for available coaches (well, probably one after one of them snaps Trotz up), but I don't see any good coaches that we would have a realistic chance of prying away.

The best choice might be an assistant or an AHL guy...but I don't have enough knowledge to figure out who that might be...and if that's the move we take, we're firing a proven coach over a probable gamble. Just doesn't make sense to me.
JM is available lol I am sure he would fit in well in Nashville with his french accent and his no emotion at all demeanor.

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05-05-2012, 04:49 PM
  #99
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only 2 coaches i would take over trotz are tortarella and babcock.

EDIT: and they are not available

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05-05-2012, 05:45 PM
  #100
ZombPred
ALLeyeDOizWHEN!
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Tennessee
Country: Hungary
Posts: 1,036
vCash: 500
These players need a coach. This is not college football. They don't need a father figure, telling them whats right and wrong. These are grown men.

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