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Old
05-06-2012, 08:03 AM
  #101
flyershockey
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
I am with you. I just don't know if Holmgren will pull the proverbial trigger on Lavi, the fans seem to love him.
I love Lavy, his style is great to watch as a fan, but if they lose again, you have to start questioning whether or not his style can win in the current gameplay of the league. It seems every other coach has figured out this transitional style to shut down the powerhouse offenses. It's why Tippet and Hitchcock have been so successful this season. The Predators have been doing it for years, and it's part of the reason why the Kings have had more success under Sutter. It took the east getting years of abuse from the likes of Pittsburgh and Washington to figure it out as well. John Tortorella used to have a "safe is death" motto, now his team is one of most passive offenses left in the whole playoffs. Boudreau tried desperately to turn Washington into a defensive club before he was canned, and Hunter has only kept them in the same mode. The Devils have always been a defense first club, so that hasn't changed.

Lavy has done a lot of great things as the coach here. He restored a level of accountability back into the players that was lost after they fired Hitch. But, he needs to adjust his outlook on the game, or they'll continually have trouble with the transitional teams. Perhaps that's why there hasn't been much talk about his extension yet?

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05-06-2012, 08:16 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
JVR, Simmonds and especially Briere will still be mediocre defensively.
That statement is very telling. Simmonds was on LA's checking line last year and was one of their better defensive forwards. Laviolette runs an offensive system where too many of the Flyers forwards have been cheating to get up ice.

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05-06-2012, 08:33 AM
  #103
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Blow up the D. Trade Mesz, release Carle, talk with Timonen about potential retirement this year or next, keep Grossmann, see what we can get for Coburn.

Bring in Suter.

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05-06-2012, 08:56 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Blow up the D. Trade Mesz, release Carle, talk with Timonen about potential retirement this year or next, keep Grossmann, see what we can get for Coburn.

Bring in Suter.
This is dumb on so many levels.

You realise Coburn has been our best player in the play-offs right?

Timonen is clearly injured.

I love how you drop the sign Suter in there. Of course, it's not like 29 other teams are going to try and sign him either.

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05-06-2012, 10:17 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
This is dumb on so many levels.

You realise Coburn has been our best player in the play-offs right?

Timonen is clearly injured.

I love how you drop the sign Suter in there. Of course, it's not like 29 other teams are going to try and sign him either.
The defence is the problem. It has been for years and without a Lazarus resurrection from Pronger it isn't going to improve without major changes.

Coburn's been fantastic of late and that's why I said we should see what we can get for him rather than outright trading him. We've seen this form from him so often before he drops back down to Bruce Banner and disappears for 3 months. Just leave out a few breadcrumbs and see who picks them up, we may get a great deal now his value's high. If not, keep him.

Timonen is clearly injured, i'm not criticising him for a second. I love the guy, but we need to find out what he's thinking. There's a good few marquee defensemen on the market over the next year or so and Kimmo isn't going to last forever. He'll need replacing this summer or next I imagine so let's get a plan in place.

Finally, so what if everyone else wants Suter? So do we and we have a habit of getting who we want.

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05-06-2012, 11:49 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
I love Lavy, his style is great to watch as a fan, but if they lose again, you have to start questioning whether or not his style can win in the current gameplay of the league.
Absurd. The man has a Stanley Cup. A few years ago he almost got another.

Carolina Hurricanes 05-06 cup winners:

3rd in the league in scoring. 18th out of 30 in goals against.

Philadelphia Flyers 11-12:

3rd in the league in scoring. 21st out of 30 in goals against.

Better goaltender + Pronger = Cup via Lavy.

There is no special combination for winning the cup except for playing well. A cup can be won with Lavy's system and has been before.

Not that Cam Ward was good in the regular season, either. .882 SV% in regular season.

.920 in the playoffs. Hey Bryz, play better already.

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05-06-2012, 11:54 AM
  #107
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For those who are intent that it's the system, do you think that would change that much with a new head coach? The Flyers as an organizational philosophy have been against the trap just as much as they are against 'tanking.' They've just never been vocal about it since they can't criticize the Devils for 'tanking.'

They never trapped, the closest they came was Ken Hitchcock who would get irate at anyone who tried to tell him he did. And whoever succeeds Lavy one day won't trap either. The Flyers in being an attractive product is that way because the team never plays a brand that is not attractive. The trap is not attractive. The Flyers want to be a winning product, and look good doing it.

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Old
05-06-2012, 12:21 PM
  #108
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So basically, the Flyers are a not-as-cheap version of the Eagles?

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05-06-2012, 12:29 PM
  #109
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Let these young guys get some experience and this team will contend every year.

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05-06-2012, 02:29 PM
  #110
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Whatever you do, avoid the "OEL to Philadelphia" thread in the Trade Rumors and Free Agency Forum.

The most recent contribution suggested that Phoenix might consider, but probably pass, on a Schenn + Couturier + Voracek + JVR package.

...I wish I was kidding, and I wish I hadn't ventured into that thread.

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05-06-2012, 03:29 PM
  #111
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Why would Phoenix trade OEL, makes no sense? You just dont trade away franchise defensemen.

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05-06-2012, 03:48 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Justified View Post
Why would Phoenix trade OEL, makes no sense? You just dont trade away franchise defensemen.
Franchise defenseman don't get traded frequently, but neither do franchise goalies, wingers, or centers. Thus Pronger was moved something like five times over his career (once as a underdeveloped prospect, and another time by choice).

I don't think Phoenix would move OEL--but they do have strong depth in that area in their prospect pool (Rundblad, Gormley, Murphy) and, of course, Yandle on their current blue-line. Their forward corps is not particularly impressive, so it isn't inconceivable that they would move OEL for a stud forward.

(Ok. It probably is inconceivable, but so are 95 percent of the deals proposed and speculated about).

In either case, I still it is a bit silly to suggest that OEL = Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, and JVR.

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05-06-2012, 03:54 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Franchise defenseman don't get traded frequently, but neither do franchise goalies, wingers, or centers. Thus Pronger was moved something like five times over his career (once as a underdeveloped prospect, and another time by choice).

I don't think Phoenix would move OEL--but they do have strong depth in that area in their prospect pool (Rundblad, Gormley, Murphy) and, of course, Yandle on their current blue-line. Their forward corps is not particularly impressive, so it isn't inconceivable that they would move OEL for a stud forward.

(Ok. It probably is inconceivable, but so are 95 percent of the deals proposed and speculated about).

In either case, I still it is a bit silly to suggest that OEL = Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, and JVR.
I think that says more about Pronger than it does about the frequency of franchise defenseman getting traded.

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Old
05-06-2012, 09:24 PM
  #114
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ok, the OP is right trade everyone

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05-06-2012, 09:27 PM
  #115
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You guys, we might TECHNICALLY still win the Cup this year.

It would just be sent to Los Angeles and have a bunch of different names on it.

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05-06-2012, 09:38 PM
  #116
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Are you crazy? Getting rid of those guys would be suicide and completely stupid. I don't who we get in return, you don't trade away potential like that. Those guys will turn into absolute monsters.
Hate to say it but JVR will never be a monster or a "beast" ..

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05-06-2012, 09:41 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
I love Lavy, his style is great to watch as a fan, but if they lose again, you have to start questioning whether or not his style can win in the current gameplay of the league. It seems every other coach has figured out this transitional style to shut down the powerhouse offenses. It's why Tippet and Hitchcock have been so successful this season. The Predators have been doing it for years, and it's part of the reason why the Kings have had more success under Sutter. It took the east getting years of abuse from the likes of Pittsburgh and Washington to figure it out as well. John Tortorella used to have a "safe is death" motto, now his team is one of most passive offenses left in the whole playoffs. Boudreau tried desperately to turn Washington into a defensive club before he was canned, and Hunter has only kept them in the same mode. The Devils have always been a defense first club, so that hasn't changed.

Lavy has done a lot of great things as the coach here. He restored a level of accountability back into the players that was lost after they fired Hitch. But, he needs to adjust his outlook on the game, or they'll continually have trouble with the transitional teams. Perhaps that's why there hasn't been much talk about his extension yet?
I agree it's not the system, and it's not Lavy. In the Pitt serious both teams played a type of game people want to see even in the playoffs. It's the type of system the Devils employ, let's face it the Flyers could have put two lines on the ice at the same time and still would not be able to break that junior hockey left wing lock. I just can't believe we did not adjust and play a similar type of game. I would prefer watch our Flyers play a boring defensive game much like the Devils Panthers first round serious. If you watched any of that series you would have noticed that the Panthers employed that lock as well. The Flyers need to revamp there defensive system behind Bryz I don't blame him for our loses.

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