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Old
05-06-2012, 09:24 AM
  #126
predfan98
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I'm going to throw something else into this discussion. Tootoo gets cross checked to the head by Morris and Halischuk gets boarded by Klesla, why weren't either of those guys eating their teeth? For all the talk of this is a tight knit group, why aren't guys standing up for each other. Why didn't Trotz let Tootoo loose on Morris when he got out of the box? Why was Klesla left standing after such a dangerous hit? Trotz even said it was dangerous and he was holding onto Hali, so why wasn't anything done? Yeah, we take a penalty as well but geez guys, stand up for one another. Are they afraid they're going to get sat by Trotz for standing up for each other? If you're a team and a teammate is wronged, you right the wrong by defending him. I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. And if you're not going to stand up for each other at that moment, hit every thing that moves after that point but neither was done. It's a joke. We're too passive as a team and if the captain, who can be a physical force out there isn't doing it, who else is going to? If Weber were to start crushing people, others would as well. Guess what that leads to, turnovers by Phoenix which leads to chances for us. They are looking over their shoulders every time they touch the puck. Trotz, for the love of all things holy, unleash the fury.
wow.... I agree again...partially

I would say... players, leaders of the team.... unleash the fury....I think they need to have the balls to do that.... this part is shared by the players...
especially the leaders..

Bourque does it.... Bouillon does it... where are the leaders?

It's the cup boys.... if you don't want it enough to be a team... you'll never have it... it doesn't matter how many top six forwards you have or if you have a great d pair.... if you're not willing to be a team.... you'll never taste it.

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05-06-2012, 10:37 AM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I'm going to throw something else into this discussion. Tootoo gets cross checked to the head by Morris and Halischuk gets boarded by Klesla, why weren't either of those guys eating their teeth? For all the talk of this is a tight knit group, why aren't guys standing up for each other. Why didn't Trotz let Tootoo loose on Morris when he got out of the box? Why was Klesla left standing after such a dangerous hit? Trotz even said it was dangerous and he was holding onto Hali, so why wasn't anything done? Yeah, we take a penalty as well but geez guys, stand up for one another. Are they afraid they're going to get sat by Trotz for standing up for each other? If you're a team and a teammate is wronged, you right the wrong by defending him. I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. And if you're not going to stand up for each other at that moment, hit every thing that moves after that point but neither was done. It's a joke. We're too passive as a team and if the captain, who can be a physical force out there isn't doing it, who else is going to? If Weber were to start crushing people, others would as well. Guess what that leads to, turnovers by Phoenix which leads to chances for us. They are looking over their shoulders every time they touch the puck. Trotz, for the love of all things holy, unleash the fury.
I agree with all this and your previous post.

trotz is just too passive and he struggles to motivate imo

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05-06-2012, 11:02 AM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I'm going to throw something else into this discussion. Tootoo gets cross checked to the head by Morris and Halischuk gets boarded by Klesla, why weren't either of those guys eating their teeth? For all the talk of this is a tight knit group, why aren't guys standing up for each other. Why didn't Trotz let Tootoo loose on Morris when he got out of the box? Why was Klesla left standing after such a dangerous hit? Trotz even said it was dangerous and he was holding onto Hali, so why wasn't anything done? Yeah, we take a penalty as well but geez guys, stand up for one another. Are they afraid they're going to get sat by Trotz for standing up for each other? If you're a team and a teammate is wronged, you right the wrong by defending him. I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. And if you're not going to stand up for each other at that moment, hit every thing that moves after that point but neither was done. It's a joke. We're too passive as a team and if the captain, who can be a physical force out there isn't doing it, who else is going to? If Weber were to start crushing people, others would as well. Guess what that leads to, turnovers by Phoenix which leads to chances for us. They are looking over their shoulders every time they touch the puck. Trotz, for the love of all things holy, unleash the fury.
I agree every team worth it's salt would have someone seek retribution. I get that in a game like that you don't want to take the chance on putting them further behind the 8 ball but it is also to be looked at as a galvanizing effect to bring a team together.

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05-06-2012, 11:30 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by One and Done View Post
Yep. Got it.

When we win it's bacause of Trotz' system, not the players.
When we lose it's bacause of the players, not Trotz' system.

Some posters' message:
"Trotz' system works...we just didn't score enough goals."

Strangely enough, ANY SYSTEM works...if you just 'score enough goals'.
you just found the vaccine for a form of hockey rhetoric

so true and sensless !!

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Old
05-06-2012, 01:14 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I think people are mixing up firing Trotz with the decision to sit AK and Rads. It has nothing to do with that for me. Do I think he gets the max out of his best players, not at all. Weber and Suter have played on the world stage and were shining stars for the Canadian and US Olympic teams. They are paired together in this series against good players from Phoenix yet they don't shine out there. Where are the thunderous hits from Weber? Those sorts of things change momentum in games and in series. I'm sorry but I am not seeing the fire in Weber. To be perfectly honest, if I'm Trotz or anyone else in that locker room, I'm ticking off Weber because even though he'll take a bad penalty here and there when he's mad, he plays with more of an edge and attitude when he's pissed off. He's a gentleman out there right now and it's playoff hockey. It's time to put down the purse and tea cup and start playing playoff hockey.
While Weber and Suter aren't making highlight reel plays, they've been very solid all playoffs. Weber did make a thunderous hit...and got called for boarding. Weber also lost his cool and slammed Henrik Zetterberg's head into the glass, nearly getting him suspended. Last year, Weber played mad all series against Vancouver, and got abused by Ryan Kesler. So do we really want to see mad Weber out there? I know it's fun to see him wreck people...but I rather like his smooth controlled game, which he's been displaying now. He's virtually eliminating opponents along the boards...cleanly. His puck possession may be the best I've ever seen it. He's strong and confident with the puck in the D zone. The only complaint I have is that he's not asserting himself enough on offense. I know Phoenix is blocking the shooting lanes...but for Christ's sake, you can shoot the puck 106 mph. Blast a few of those, and guys are going to think twice about getting in the way.

Suter looks a lot more "in it" than he did through stretches of the regular season. He's not doing anything above and beyond special, but he's back to his normal self, making mostly heady defensive plays, handling the puck, and using his silky smooth skating to his advantage. He even seems to have gotten his offense back on track, after basically being a zero in round 1.

I don't think they're being soft or "gentlemenly" out there. They're playing a very clean game, though. And for Weber, that's a good thing...because the next time he crosses the line, he'll be gone for a few games, and it could cost us the series.

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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I have felt for years that Trotz gets great mileage out of average to good players but when he has top end talent, he doesn't know what to do with it. He's never been able to get the most out of Legwand on a consistent basis. Hartnell was in his doghouse early and often. Erat is probably the rare exception but even he's never even put up the big numbers. Rads has to play Barry's game to get on the ice as opposed to Barry playing to Rads' strengths. Same thing with Wilson. And a lot of you will be like we gave him a chance and he never did anything but Peverly had skills and obviously Boston thought so too and he's been a fixture in their top 6 for a while now and producing good numbers.
I still don't get why people put David Legwand's failures on Trotz. Yes, he was the number 2 pick. Yes, we all hoped he would be our offensive superstar franchise player. No, that hasn't panned out. But whose fault is it? Lots of guys don't live up to their expectations. That doesn't mean it falls on the coach. Legwand has also battled a lot of injuries, hurting both his numbers and his consistency.

Hartnell was in the doghouse for good reason, too. The guy took some ridiculously stupid penalties early in his career. Hell, he took stupid penalties when he moved to Philly, too. He's just now starting to show his maturity. I think that has more to do with age than coaching. His offensive numbers with us were good.

Why should Rads and Wilson be given more to work with than the other players on the roster? I get that they are used to a different style...but that doesn't mean you can't be successful offensively, but being defensively reliable.

With Wilson, especially, he hasn't proved that he deserves more free reign, because his numbers simply don't justify it. Radulov at least has a 58 point season under his belt...but Wilson isn't putting up 50 point seasons. If you want to justify being a defensive liability, at least be an offensive superstar.

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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I just don't see that he puts guys in a position to succeed with the skill sets they have and the system he uses. He wants all the guys to play his system and while that's fine and dandy, you have to let guys play their games too. That's why they were drafted right, because of their skill sets? Not everyone is going to be a great two way player but if they excel offensively, does that mean they should sit because they aren't perfect defensively? Compensate that line with other good two way players to balance the lines out.
I don't disagree with the idea of mixing lines of players with different skill sets. In some cases, it's a logical choice. However, I will say that players who are drafted are unfinished molds. They aren't through learning, they aren't without the need of further coaching. Yes, it's great if they have a certain skill set...but what stops them from learning a new system? I would argue that purely offensive players that learn to play two ways become a lot more valuable to their teams, because they can be used in any situation.

I do think Trotz has been a bit hard on Colin Wilson...but at the same time, it's time for Wilson to grow up and realize that he's not living up to his own potential...and that just playing his game isn't going to cut it in the NHL.

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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
And the argument of who do we replace him with is a tired one. Trotz never coached a game in the NHL and everyone loves him so there are guys with little or no experience in the NHL that would do the job just fine. Remember, everyone had to coach their first NHL game at some point. Sometimes change is good, sometimes it's bad but to say, who do we replace him with is chicken ***** to me because to be best, you have to take chances sometimes. You have to step out of the norm and go with a calculated risk. We took a chance by going "all in" this season and we're one game from elimination because of a coach who has the inability to change on the fly. He made great decisions against Detroit and has done nothing to slow down or figure out how to put a chink in the armor of a Coyote team.
I think the reason why people use the "who do you replace him with" argument is because replacing Trotz after back to back second round appearances with a "calculated risk" is an outright stupid gamble. We miss the playoffs a couple of times, or just have a year that we bomb...sure, then you can talk about maybe thinking outside of the box with a replacement. But after this? You want to replace a guy that you KNOW what you're going to get with a big ?? No. That's where I draw the line. That's silly talk. Are we so damn impatient that we're willing to risk pissing away what we have just to get there more quickly?

And he has done nothing to slow down the Coyotes? 9 GA in the first two games. 1 GA in the last two. I'd say that's a successful adjustment.

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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
And while I haven't given up on the season since I still believe in this group of players, if it doesn't get done, a change is warranted and needs to be discussed.
Why is a change warranted? Coming into this season, a lot of people were predicting gloom and doom...and we have ended up right where we were last season...and we're not finished yet.

Look at the teams still in the playoffs: they are all good teams. They were last year as well. We have a great group of players...but who is to say that any other coach in the league would definitely lead this group past the second round? Maybe? Sure. But a lot of good teams -- teams that could beat us -- teams with superstar players -- teams with good coaches -- even two teams picked to win it all....are golfing right now.

What exactly do you see about this team that makes you think that not winning a Stanley Cup means firing the coach is warranted?

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05-06-2012, 01:23 PM
  #131
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a comparison to torts is interesting. And it may explain why Trotz has been able to keep his message from being stagnant. Guys like Torts publically dress you down. Now, that can motivate you for small stretches, but eventually, guys tune you out. You usually see the antics from coaches like torts during rough stretches.

Now take Barry. He is harder on the guys when they are winning rather than losing. Rarely takes digs at guys in the public. Treats the players like men. I think this is a biog part of why guys like to play for Trotz.

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05-06-2012, 01:44 PM
  #132
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Bourque, firing Trotz is warranted. Making the playoffs is grand and all but at the end of the day, winning the Cup is the thing is there to do, along with the players. Poile gave him a team that has all the components. He went "all in" as they've said. If we're done in 5 in the second round then I don't think you can't not talk about replacing him. Coaches get fired. It's part of sports. If he'd won a Cup then I'd say stick around, if he got us to the finals, sure, stick around but getting bounced in the first round endless times and getting to the second round twice and possibly getting bounced one of those times is not acceptable results anymore. Sorry but that's the way I feel. This team was one of the best from December on and while we were solid against a very good Detroit team, I don't feel we're prepared to play Phoenix and while Game 1 could've gone our way, it didn't and while game 4 should've been ours too, it didn't. Yeah, Trotz can't go out and play for the players but coaches are supposed to get the most out of all their players AND put them in a position to succeed/play to their strengths.

I think Trotz has done well in the years he's been here but I don't think he's a guy that will get us past this point. Yeah, I get it, it's hard to win a Stanley Cup. 29 other teams fail at it every year. Then again, did 29 other teams go out and make the moves we did as a franchise? Did 29 other teams have to make a decision on bringing Radulov back on his ELC? Did 29 other teams trade away 2 second round picks and a first rounder in the next couple of years? We went out and made moves that were supposed to make us better. It's the coaches job how to manage the pieces that are given to him. It worked for 5 games and has failed us for 4. That is his job. When you go all in, you're taking a gamble. Just like you said it's a dumb gamble to go for a different coach, well, isn't it a stupid gamble to put all your chips in the pot with a coach with one second round appearance in the playoffs?

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05-06-2012, 02:00 PM
  #133
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good post Bourque.

favorite part is this

Quote:
And he has done nothing to slow down the Coyotes? 9 GA in the first two games. 1 GA in the last two. I'd say that's a successful adjustment.

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Old
05-06-2012, 02:07 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by BourqueBourqueBork View Post
While Weber and Suter aren't making highlight reel plays, they've been very solid all playoffs. Weber did make a thunderous hit...and got called for boarding. Weber also lost his cool and slammed Henrik Zetterberg's head into the glass, nearly getting him suspended. Last year, Weber played mad all series against Vancouver, and got abused by Ryan Kesler. So do we really want to see mad Weber out there? I know it's fun to see him wreck people...but I rather like his smooth controlled game, which he's been displaying now. He's virtually eliminating opponents along the boards...cleanly. His puck possession may be the best I've ever seen it. He's strong and confident with the puck in the D zone. The only complaint I have is that he's not asserting himself enough on offense. I know Phoenix is blocking the shooting lanes...but for Christ's sake, you can shoot the puck 106 mph. Blast a few of those, and guys are going to think twice about getting in the way.

Suter looks a lot more "in it" than he did through stretches of the regular season. He's not doing anything above and beyond special, but he's back to his normal self, making mostly heady defensive plays, handling the puck, and using his silky smooth skating to his advantage. He even seems to have gotten his offense back on track, after basically being a zero in round 1.

I don't think they're being soft or "gentlemenly" out there. They're playing a very clean game, though. And for Weber, that's a good thing...because the next time he crosses the line, he'll be gone for a few games, and it could cost us the series.



I still don't get why people put David Legwand's failures on Trotz. Yes, he was the number 2 pick. Yes, we all hoped he would be our offensive superstar franchise player. No, that hasn't panned out. But whose fault is it? Lots of guys don't live up to their expectations. That doesn't mean it falls on the coach. Legwand has also battled a lot of injuries, hurting both his numbers and his consistency.

Hartnell was in the doghouse for good reason, too. The guy took some ridiculously stupid penalties early in his career. Hell, he took stupid penalties when he moved to Philly, too. He's just now starting to show his maturity. I think that has more to do with age than coaching. His offensive numbers with us were good.

Why should Rads and Wilson be given more to work with than the other players on the roster? I get that they are used to a different style...but that doesn't mean you can't be successful offensively, but being defensively reliable.

With Wilson, especially, he hasn't proved that he deserves more free reign, because his numbers simply don't justify it. Radulov at least has a 58 point season under his belt...but Wilson isn't putting up 50 point seasons. If you want to justify being a defensive liability, at least be an offensive superstar.



I don't disagree with the idea of mixing lines of players with different skill sets. In some cases, it's a logical choice. However, I will say that players who are drafted are unfinished molds. They aren't through learning, they aren't without the need of further coaching. Yes, it's great if they have a certain skill set...but what stops them from learning a new system? I would argue that purely offensive players that learn to play two ways become a lot more valuable to their teams, because they can be used in any situation.

I do think Trotz has been a bit hard on Colin Wilson...but at the same time, it's time for Wilson to grow up and realize that he's not living up to his own potential...and that just playing his game isn't going to cut it in the NHL.



I think the reason why people use the "who do you replace him with" argument is because replacing Trotz after back to back second round appearances with a "calculated risk" is an outright stupid gamble. We miss the playoffs a couple of times, or just have a year that we bomb...sure, then you can talk about maybe thinking outside of the box with a replacement. But after this? You want to replace a guy that you KNOW what you're going to get with a big ?? No. That's where I draw the line. That's silly talk. Are we so damn impatient that we're willing to risk pissing away what we have just to get there more quickly?

And he has done nothing to slow down the Coyotes? 9 GA in the first two games. 1 GA in the last two. I'd say that's a successful adjustment.



Why is a change warranted? Coming into this season, a lot of people were predicting gloom and doom...and we have ended up right where we were last season...and we're not finished yet.

Look at the teams still in the playoffs: they are all good teams. They were last year as well. We have a great group of players...but who is to say that any other coach in the league would definitely lead this group past the second round? Maybe? Sure. But a lot of good teams -- teams that could beat us -- teams with superstar players -- teams with good coaches -- even two teams picked to win it all....are golfing right now.

What exactly do you see about this team that makes you think that not winning a Stanley Cup means firing the coach is warranted?
While I do not think your coach should be fired, I do agree that he, for whatever reason has not "developed any truly skilled prospects. You mention learning a new system etc. if it means that all your young, skilled creative players turn into a Legwand, is that what you want?
Every team needs someone like Legwand....but I would be interested in, if he had ever gone to another team early on, might he have been a different player he is now? I guess we will never know.
If you call developing young guys by not just " sitting them out for a few" to learn a lesson, but sitting them for a month or more like Smith and Wilson, I would argue that this is not great for development.
Really though,I guess what iamgetting at is, could someone name me ANY young talented prospects that have come to your team and flourished under Trotz?

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05-06-2012, 02:23 PM
  #135
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I will gladly eat my crow, and jump off the fire Trotz bandwagon if he can pull us out of this round. I actually liked the decision to sit AK and Rads for game 4 as well, I just think Trotz struggles hard against teams that he doesn't know very well.

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05-06-2012, 03:04 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I think Trotz has done well in the years he's been here but I don't think he's a guy that will get us past this point. Yeah, I get it, it's hard to win a Stanley Cup. 29 other teams fail at it every year. Then again, did 29 other teams go out and make the moves we did as a franchise? Did 29 other teams have to make a decision on bringing Radulov back on his ELC? Did 29 other teams trade away 2 second round picks and a first rounder in the next couple of years? We went out and made moves that were supposed to make us better. It's the coaches job how to manage the pieces that are given to him. It worked for 5 games and has failed us for 4. That is his job. When you go all in, you're taking a gamble. Just like you said it's a dumb gamble to go for a different coach, well, isn't it a stupid gamble to put all your chips in the pot with a coach with one second round appearance in the playoffs?
Again, so many people say he can't get us past this point...that was somewhat valid when we were exiting in the first round, and never taking series to 7 games in the process. But now we've made the second round two straight times. Last year we ran into a SUPERIOR Vancouver team, and we were simply outmatched. We took the series to 6 games. But it's Trotz's fault that we didn't win?

This season, we're in the same spot, but not against a clearly superior opponent. However, the Phoenix matchup isn't without it's problems. Their system is a tough nut to crack. Ask an offensively talented Chicago team about that. They have a hot goalie, too...and our guys aren't burying some of the better chances they've been getting.

You say Trotz is unable to adjust to Phoenix? We went with wide open offense in the first two games and got burned. We tightened up defensively and have allowed a single goal over two games. Yes, we lost the last one...and yes, there was the "controversial" decision to sit Rads and AK. But at the same time...we lost 1-0. Rads/AK or not, we should've been able to score a goal. We had one called back. But is this all on Trotz somehow? Adjustments have been made...but when your players don't finish, you can't blame the coach. I think the team has played VERY well in the past 2 games...and we were one overtime chance away from splitting in Phoenix. It has not failed us for 4 games...especially considering we won game 3.

We are down 3-1...but it's not like Phoenix has been dominant, and I don't think Trotz has been outcoached. It's a very close series. Much closer than the one last year. And it's not over...but you and a lot of the other Preds fans have already jumped off the wagon. That's sad.


As far as what other teams do...other teams make similar moves around playoff time. Some pay off, some don't. You think Detroit is happy with giving up a first for Kyle Quincey? We did make a lot of moves...and yes, the expectation is that the moves will make the team stronger and better able to win the Cup. But does it guarantee anything? Absolutely not.

You know, a lot of people were calling for Poile's head after the offseason...shipping of Franson and Lombardi for junk (contract dump)...not picking up an overpriced UFA in a relatively weak FA offseason...not resigning Ward, Sullivan, Goc, etc. Relying on kids to step into big shoes. But what are we hearing about those moves now? *crickets*



As for this "all or nothing" attitude....I take it you're not a baseball fan?

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05-06-2012, 03:06 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oreilly22 View Post
I will gladly eat my crow, and jump off the fire Trotz bandwagon if he can pull us out of this round. I actually liked the decision to sit AK and Rads for game 4 as well, I just think Trotz struggles hard against teams that he doesn't know very well.
I think it's more that we have fits with teams that play a similar tight defensive style. A lot of our game relies on the other team making mistakes that we can pounce on. When we face a team that does the same, it basically becomes a game of "who makes the fewest mistakes." It's tough if you aren't playing a nearly flawless game.

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05-06-2012, 03:12 PM
  #138
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I'm not on the fire Trotz bandwagon, but there are to realities that we can't ignore.

1 - All the regular season wins on the world don't mean jack squat in a league where more than half the teams make the playoffs anyway. They never have, and never will.

2 - Usually Trotz gets an underachieving team to play better than it's talent level. This is one team that's playing so far below it's talent level it's crazy. You can try and blame the players all you want - but no one gets out clean from this disaster. And no one should.

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05-06-2012, 04:12 PM
  #139
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It's funny that ten days ago this same staff and team was doing things right ... nobody was posting fire Trotz and there were threads questioning why he wasn't a finalist for the Adams. Fast forward a few days, and several adjustments later and the calls for his head on a platter echo yet again because a good team is ahead of us in this series.

Laughable.

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05-06-2012, 04:14 PM
  #140
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so we have gone from the first few years of "trotz can't get into the playoffs" to "trotz can't get out of the first round" to "trotz can't get out of the 2nd round"

just fact checking here

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05-06-2012, 04:21 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
so we have gone from the first few years of "trotz can't get into the playoffs" to "trotz can't get out of the first round" to "trotz can't get out of the 2nd round"

just fact checking here
it took around 6 seasons to make the playoffs... around 6 seasons to make it out of the first round.. now will be 2 seasons in a row getting bounced in the second if we can't come back with the superior team. at this pace, we will win the cup around 2028

theres no guarantee we get another chance like we have this season with this roster. we could lose multiple key pieces.

progress is progress but lets not fool ourselves here either.


Last edited by NoNecksCurse: 05-06-2012 at 04:55 PM.
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05-06-2012, 04:31 PM
  #142
darth5
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OK, I read enough of this thread to understand the perspectives.

Its easier to fire 1-3 coaches than to completely retool your personnel. But, against the Phoenix system and their incandescent goalie, what is the answer with the tools in the toolbox?

Honestly, I don't know what should be done at this point. I just know as an avid fan I am both frustrated and very disappointed at where the franchise is in a series like this. From a talent and asset situation, it should be very achievable. If management and ownership are TRULY committed to winning a cup, there have to be some changes. You cannot install a new "system" at this moment, but if they wash out I think you MUST consider a philosophy change, and build the roster than can run it. If that means coaches are a casualty as well as players, so be it. I am so over just being above average.

There, that is what I wanted to add.

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05-06-2012, 04:52 PM
  #143
glenngineer
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
so we have gone from the first few years of "trotz can't get into the playoffs" to "trotz can't get out of the first round" to "trotz can't get out of the 2nd round"

just fact checking here
Weren't you and a few others saying Smith is trash as a goalie and yet he's dominated us all series. Hmmmm. Sure he's a hot goalie but isn't the guy in our net supposed to be one of the top 3 in the world?

Dude, you know as well as I do it's about results, good, bad or indifferent. You've followed the Yankees long enough to know this, it's about championships, nothing less. Why should we not have those expectations as a fan of this team?

And 101, you're right, 10 days ago the staff and players were doing all right. Well, things change and the bottom line was the team wasn't ready to play coming off of their break. And while the coaches adjusted their style from the wide open style to a more conservative approach, if you told me we'd give up 1 goal in two home games and be 1-1 I'd have to say I'd be disappointed.

Who knows, maybe Trotz pulls a rabbit out of his hat and has these guys playing on all cylinders tomorrow night. Maybe Smith loses his mojo. Maybe the team that we saw go on their January run shows up. If they do, great and Trotz will get the credit he deserves for getting them focused and on their game once again. If he doesn't, he's up for any and all scrutiny thrown his way. People may agree or disagree on this but that is sports in a nutshell.

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05-06-2012, 04:58 PM
  #144
101st_fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
it took around 6 seasons to make the playoffs... around 6 seasons to make it out of the first round.. now will be 2 seasons in a row getting bounced in the second if we can't come back with the superior team. at this pace, we will the cup around 2028

theres no guarantee we get another chance like we have this season with this roster. we could lose multiple key pieces.

progress is progress but lets not fool ourselves here either.

Superior is based on play, not paper. The "superior" Hawks went home in the first round ... so did the "superior" Nuks.

We have so many comments around here saying we're so much better than the Yotes, a more talented squad ... in reality we are a slightly better team up front, nearly equal in net, and while they lack the star power we have on the blue line, they play on hell of an effective team game in their own end.

It's a series that is coming down to bounces and breaks ... they're capitalizing, we're not.

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05-06-2012, 05:27 PM
  #145
BourqueBourqueBork
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
so we have gone from the first few years of "trotz can't get into the playoffs" to "trotz can't get out of the first round" to "trotz can't get out of the 2nd round"

just fact checking here
Last 10 Stanley Cup Champion coaches:

2011 - Claude Julien - 3 first round losses, 2 second round losses, 1 Cup

2010 - Joel Quenneville - 5 first round losses, 5 second round losses, 2 third round losses, 1 Cup

2009 - Dan Bylsma - 2 first round losses, 1 second round loss, 1 Cup

2008 - Mike Babcock - 2 first round losses, 2 second round losses, 1 third round loss, 2 finals losses, 1 Cup

2007 - Randy Carlyle - 2 first round losses, 1 second round loss, 1 third round loss, 1 Cup

2006 - Peter Laviolette - 2 first round losses, 1 second round loss, 1 finals loss, 1 Cup *in progress second round 2012

2004 - John Tortorella - 4 first round losses, 1 second round loss, 1 Cup *in progress second round 2012

2003 - Pat Burns - 3 first round losses, 4 second round losses, 2 third round losses, 1 finals loss, 1 Cup

2002 - Scotty Bowman - 5 first round losses, 6 second round losses, 2 third round losses, 4 finals losses, 9 Cups
^^^
Hey, maybe we can convince that guy to coach here.

2001 - Bob Hartley - 1 first round loss, 3 third round losses, 1 Cup

Still active in NHL

I didn't bother including the seasons these coaches missed the playoffs and/or got fired.


Tortorella, Bylsma, and Julien each have won the Cup, but in every other season, they have failed to make it past the second round.

The reason I point that out is that each of these guys had "their year" and went on to glory...but they haven't managed consistent success...even with some very stacked rosters. I can understand the frustration if the Predators don't make it past the second round this year...but I simply don't buy the argument that Trotz "can't go all the way." Going all the way generally involves some level of perfect circumstances and luck.




And another note...if we somehow comeback and win this series, and go on and face LA, will the fire Trotz crowd blame him for that one? I mean, LA is the lower seed, after all.

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05-06-2012, 05:32 PM
  #146
CantbeatzPekka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Weren't you and a few others saying Smith is trash as a goalie and yet he's dominated us all series. Hmmmm. Sure he's a hot goalie but isn't the guy in our net supposed to be one of the top 3 in the world?
Dude, you know as well as I do it's about results, good, bad or indifferent. You've followed the Yankees long enough to know this, it's about championships, nothing less. Why should we not have those expectations as a fan of this team?

And 101, you're right, 10 days ago the staff and players were doing all right. Well, things change and the bottom line was the team wasn't ready to play coming off of their break. And while the coaches adjusted their style from the wide open style to a more conservative approach, if you told me we'd give up 1 goal in two home games and be 1-1 I'd have to say I'd be disappointed.

Who knows, maybe Trotz pulls a rabbit out of his hat and has these guys playing on all cylinders tomorrow night. Maybe Smith loses his mojo. Maybe the team that we saw go on their January run shows up. If they do, great and Trotz will get the credit he deserves for getting them focused and on their game once again. If he doesn't, he's up for any and all scrutiny thrown his way. People may agree or disagree on this but that is sports in a nutshell.
Maybe if half of our shots would actually make it to him than he wouldnt be "dominating".

Our PLAYERS havent been able to get the puck to the net. its so frustrating because if we were to challenge Smith in the slightest this series would look nothing like it has.

also once again it cannot be Trotz's fault players couldn't finish in big games. (yet)

like someone said earlier its not over yet. . . .

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05-06-2012, 05:33 PM
  #147
NoNecksCurse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Superior is based on play, not paper. The "superior" Hawks went home in the first round ... so did the "superior" Nuks.

We have so many comments around here saying we're so much better than the Yotes, a more talented squad ... in reality we are a slightly better team up front, nearly equal in net, and while they lack the star power we have on the blue line, they play on hell of an effective team game in their own end.

It's a series that is coming down to bounces and breaks ... they're capitalizing, we're not.
im sorry I disagree. we are superior to the coyotes. everything leading up to this series.. regular season and playoffs.. on paper and play points to us being the superior team. problem is they look like the superior team and are outplaying us .. they lead 3-1 .. my belief is someone has to deal with the consequences whether it be coaches or players. im not sure which one I place more blame on yet

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05-06-2012, 05:47 PM
  #148
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thread is dumb while preds are still in the POs.

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05-06-2012, 05:47 PM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
im sorry I disagree. we are superior to the coyotes. everything leading up to this series.. regular season and playoffs.. on paper and play points to us being the superior team. problem is they look like the superior team and are outplaying us .. they lead 3-1 .. my belief is someone has to deal with the consequences whether it be coaches or players. im not sure which one I place more blame on yet
Blame goes both ways, but some credit should also be extended to Phoenix...who are playing solidly as a group, playing their system very well, and finishing more chances than we are.

Statistically, we might be the better team...but statistically, so was Chicago. We should've known this wouldn't be a cakewalk based on the season series. Phoenix is about as much fun to play as Minnesota. After we took down Detroit, I was really, really hoping to see Chicago come back in their series. I'm not saying Chicago would've been easy...but with the style they play, it's a lot easier for us to play to our strengths. Phoenix is pretty much eliminating our strengths.

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05-06-2012, 05:49 PM
  #150
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Watch the Preds win 3 in a row. I will SO bump this thread.

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