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Cory Schneider / Roberto Luongo to Tampa Bay

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Old
05-04-2012, 12:12 AM
  #451
The Fear Boners
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeperMBC View Post
Luongo and Canucks 1st. For Malone. Det. 1st. And Tampa 2nd
Flame away.

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05-04-2012, 12:51 AM
  #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Churla View Post
I'd agree with you however Canucks are keeping him as the fans in Vancouver would riot if they traded Schneider and kept Luongo. Luongo also wants out of Vancouver and has asked for a trade.

I don't think my proposal is bad.

Ballard is a very serviceable defenseman but he just doesn't fit this team. Our coach hates him and gives him little rope to play with. When he was given more icetime in this years playoffs he was one of our better D-men. I think he would excel in Tampa Bay like he did in Florida

Malone is a cap dump and is underachieving and Hedman for Luongo is more than a fair trade. If a 2nd doesn't come close to getting the deal done then I would consider our 1st but thats pushing it. I could also see us throwing in Raymond to sweeten the pot if Yzerman wanted another piece to finalize the trade.
You sir take the cake for either the best troll of all the people on hf, or the highest hf board user, or the most delusional.

You know Malone has consistently produced better numbers than 90 percent of your team over his whole career.

But seriously good troll, or get your head checked.

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05-04-2012, 05:07 AM
  #453
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Originally Posted by The Alaskan Assassin View Post
Not bad. I'd rather have Dale Weise than a 2nd though, to replace Malone's size. Aside from that, it's an excellent proposal. Rarely does an offer this fair get posted on HFBoards.
I chuckled

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05-04-2012, 07:03 AM
  #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Churla View Post
I'd agree with you however Canucks are keeping him as the fans in Vancouver would riot if they traded Schneider and kept Luongo. Luongo also wants out of Vancouver and has asked for a trade.

I don't think my proposal is bad.

Ballard is a very serviceable defenseman but he just doesn't fit this team. Our coach hates him and gives him little rope to play with. When he was given more icetime in this years playoffs he was one of our better D-men. I think he would excel in Tampa Bay like he did in Florida

Malone is a cap dump and is underachieving and Hedman for Luongo is more than a fair trade. If a 2nd doesn't come close to getting the deal done then I would consider our 1st but thats pushing it. I could also see us throwing in Raymond to sweeten the pot if Yzerman wanted another piece to finalize the trade.
Nothin' like starting my morning off with a good laugh. Keep them coming man.

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05-04-2012, 07:07 AM
  #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Churla View Post
I'd agree with you however Canucks are keeping him as the fans in Vancouver would riot if they traded Schneider and kept Luongo. Luongo also wants out of Vancouver and has asked for a trade.

I don't think my proposal is bad.

Ballard is a very serviceable defenseman but he just doesn't fit this team. Our coach hates him and gives him little rope to play with. When he was given more icetime in this years playoffs he was one of our better D-men. I think he would excel in Tampa Bay like he did in Florida

Malone is a cap dump and is underachieving and Hedman for Luongo is more than a fair trade. If a 2nd doesn't come close to getting the deal done then I would consider our 1st but thats pushing it. I could also see us throwing in Raymond to sweeten the pot if Yzerman wanted another piece to finalize the trade.
Ahhh to be young, free, and high.

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05-04-2012, 08:38 AM
  #456
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They are gonna throw in Raymond to sweeten the pot, I don't know how we can say no now.

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05-04-2012, 01:05 PM
  #457
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Canuck's fan coming in peace. I have a few questions in regards to Tampa Bay and I'm hopeful you guys can answer them (to the best of your ability of course)

1) Which of Tampa's prospects are ready to take NHL stage? I know Connolly for sure but how about Kucherov, Namestnikov, Panik, Kucherov or Ritola?
2) Is J.T Brown pretty much a lock for your third line?
3) If Lecavaliers contract could be moved, would you do it?
4) If you were to trade for Luongo, would you rather trade a piece like Malone or Connolly?
5) If Lecavalier was to be trade, would you be okay with a temporary second line center and say a star winger to anchor the second line?

I know that's quite a few questions and I don't really expect all to be answer, but if I could some solid responses that would be great.

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05-04-2012, 01:22 PM
  #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thOverdrive View Post
Canuck's fan coming in peace. I have a few questions in regards to Tampa Bay and I'm hopeful you guys can answer them (to the best of your ability of course)

1) Which of Tampa's prospects are ready to take NHL stage? I know Connolly for sure but how about Kucherov, Namestnikov, Panik, Kucherov or Ritola?
2) Is J.T Brown pretty much a lock for your third line?
3) If Lecavaliers contract could be moved, would you do it?
4) If you were to trade for Luongo, would you rather trade a piece like Malone or Connolly?
5) If Lecavalier was to be trade, would you be okay with a temporary second line center and say a star winger to anchor the second line?

I know that's quite a few questions and I don't really expect all to be answer, but if I could some solid responses that would be great.
I'll wait for the CBA to be signed and it to not contain any contract amnesty buyout before I engage in anymore of this mental masturbation.

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05-04-2012, 01:42 PM
  #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thOverdrive View Post
Canuck's fan coming in peace. I have a few questions in regards to Tampa Bay and I'm hopeful you guys can answer them (to the best of your ability of course)

1) Which of Tampa's prospects are ready to take NHL stage? I know Connolly for sure but how about Kucherov, Namestnikov, Panik, Kucherov or Ritola?
2) Is J.T Brown pretty much a lock for your third line?
3) If Lecavaliers contract could be moved, would you do it?
4) If you were to trade for Luongo, would you rather trade a piece like Malone or Connolly?
5) If Lecavalier was to be trade, would you be okay with a temporary second line center and say a star winger to anchor the second line?

I know that's quite a few questions and I don't really expect all to be answer, but if I could some solid responses that would be great.
1) Brown/Connolly/Conacher/Killorn are the most likely(in that order). Barberio has an outside shot.
2) Yes, maybe even 2nd line. Nothing is a sure thing though.
3) Can't speak for the organization, or even other fans, but IMO no.
4) Preferably neither. If I had to pick, Malone. Only because of cap reasons though. (gotta make room for 10 yrs of 5.3mil)
5) Doubtful. Tampa has depth at wing, not center.

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05-04-2012, 02:00 PM
  #460
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I only look at getting Luongo for around a 3rd round pick, or 2nd round pick at best, meaning TB only visions Luongo as picking up the salary dump...meaning is it even worth picking up over a long period of time??!!

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05-04-2012, 05:08 PM
  #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Churla View Post
I'd agree with you however Canucks are keeping him as the fans in Vancouver would riot if they traded Schneider and kept Luongo. Luongo also wants out of Vancouver and has asked for a trade.
Ownership is used to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Churla View Post
I don't think my proposal is bad.
It really is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Churla View Post
Ballard is a very serviceable defenseman but he just doesn't fit this team. Our coach hates him and gives him little rope to play with. When he was given more icetime in this years playoffs he was one of our better D-men. I think he would excel in Tampa Bay like he did in Florida
If Malone is a cap dump; Ballard is the cap dump of all cap dumps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Churla View Post
Malone is a cap dump and is underachieving and Hedman for Luongo is more than a fair trade. If a 2nd doesn't come close to getting the deal done then I would consider our 1st but thats pushing it. I could also see us throwing in Raymond to sweeten the pot if Yzerman wanted another piece to finalize the trade.
21 year old promising defenseman for a 49 million dollar 33 year old goalie on the trading block? More than fair?

I'd do it....

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05-04-2012, 06:16 PM
  #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thOverdrive View Post
1) Which of Tampa's prospects are ready to take NHL stage? I know Connolly for sure but how about Kucherov, Namestnikov, Panik, Kucherov or Ritola?
Kucherov - so good we cloned him!

And Ritola is no longer our property, he got cut or whatever you call it.

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05-05-2012, 12:09 AM
  #463
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i think taht this threat is pointless - Vancouver won't trade Schneider unless TB overpays big time(which TB won't do), and TB won't take Loungo's contract especially if it means to part with Hedman, high picks, porspects or top 6 forward

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05-05-2012, 01:33 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Ligthningstrikes View Post
i think taht this threat is pointless - Vancouver won't trade Schneider unless TB overpays big time(which TB won't do), and TB won't take Loungo's contract especially if it means to part with Hedman, high picks, porspects or top 6 forward
According to some Van fans, it would require all of that to get Lou.

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05-05-2012, 02:09 PM
  #465
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I'm all for people dreaming big but jeez.

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05-05-2012, 03:16 PM
  #466
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I'm honestly at the point that I don't care which of them SFY picks up, just get one of them.

Both are effing amazing goalies and having one of them playing starter will make watching next season much more bearable.

Schneider is great, and will cost Tampa two arms and two legs in a trade.

Luongo is great and will be much cheaper in a trade but has the long term contract (which I frankly think that people are wrongly flipping out about).

As long as Vinnik is ok with burying the last cople years of Luongos Contract when the time comes I'm A-ok watching Lu in net next year.

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05-06-2012, 12:39 AM
  #467
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Originally Posted by VanTampaFan View Post
I'm honestly at the point that I don't care which of them SFY picks up, just get one of them.

Both are effing amazing goalies and having one of them playing starter will make watching next season much more bearable.

Schneider is great, and will cost Tampa two arms and two legs in a trade.

Luongo is great and will be much cheaper in a trade but has the long term contract (which I frankly think that people are wrongly flipping out about).

As long as Vinnik is ok with burying the last cople years of Luongos Contract when the time comes I'm A-ok watching Lu in net next year.

if SY makes TB a little like Detroit Loungo will retire in 4-5 years and there won't be a problem.
Also am ok with Lu, but i don't want us to give anything more than maybe a 2nd round pick, Bergeron and Garon

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05-06-2012, 05:08 AM
  #468
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Originally Posted by Ligthningstrikes View Post
if SY makes TB a little like Detroit Loungo will retire in 4-5 years and there won't be a problem.
Also am ok with Lu, but i don't want us to give anything more than maybe a 2nd round pick, Bergeron and Garon
If SFY makes TB a little more like Detroit, Luongo will sign another two contracts if he comes here.

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05-06-2012, 05:27 AM
  #469
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
If SFY makes TB a little more like Detroit, Luongo will sign another two contracts if he comes here.
SFY will sign him if he plays good(doubt that would happen after 10 years). But if a player does not produce anymore and he has a cap that can't allow the team to go forward, he will be traded or if he is old and nobody wants him he will retire - that would have happened with loungo if he played for Detroit, question is can SFY do the same with tampa

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05-06-2012, 04:27 PM
  #470
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SY isn't touching that contract with a 10 foot pole. If Vinny werent here, he probably would, but VL stops that.

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05-06-2012, 06:53 PM
  #471
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Originally Posted by Ligthningstrikes View Post
if SY makes TB a little like Detroit Loungo will retire in 4-5 years and there won't be a problem.
Also am ok with Lu, but i don't want us to give anything more than maybe a 2nd round pick, Bergeron and Garon
It will be more than that. If only even just for cap purposes. Malone is a likely candidate.

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05-06-2012, 07:02 PM
  #472
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Originally Posted by VanTampaFan View Post
It will be more than that. If only even just for cap purposes. Malone is a likely candidate.
Malone won't waive.

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05-06-2012, 08:08 PM
  #473
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SY isn't touching that contract with a 10 foot pole. If Vinny werent here, he probably would, but VL stops that.
Here is where I disagree. You can't look at his contract as TEN years. It's really a 6 year deal for all intents and purposes. I don't really understand why people are freaked out about these long-term deals. I know that many of the GM's and their capologist advisors are not. If they all were so we would not have seen contracts like Carter and Richards moved (not only that but moved for the full value of the player). People see "10 years" freak out and don't actually analyze the contract.

The thing about these cap circumventing contracts is that they circumvent the salary cap. They are designed to pay out more to retain a top player and have a lower cap hit. Which is pretty much why I think that they are BS and the next CBA should do away with the loopholes that allow them.


The whole idea is that everyone KNOWS the deal will not last the full duration of the signed contract. It is a tongue-in-cheek big "eff you" at the CBA. The whole idea is that the player will either RETIRE at the appropriate age when the real money being paid out drops off, OR, the player can then be waived.


So basically how it plays out is like this: You get a great goalie for the next 3-5 years with a great cap hit for what he brings. After the bulk of the salary has been paid, Luongo will either retire if he is declining/declined; Or you can move him to a cap floor team for a pick (his NTC will no longer be in effect if he waives it with Van), or you simply waive him to get him off the books.

Alternatively, if he is still playing great keep playing him cause you're getting a deal at a fair cap hit and the GM looks like a genius.


If we look at Luongo's deal and what remains we see this:

.......Salary Cap Hit Luongo's Age
2013: $6.714m $5.333m 33
2014: $6.714m $5.333m 34
2015: $6.714m $5.333m 35
2016: $6.714m $5.333m 36
2017: $6.714m $5.333m 37
2018: $6.714m $5.333m 38
2019: $3.382m $5.333m 39 <---- Waive Here
2020: $1.618m $5.333m 40
2021: $1.000m $5.333m 41
2022: $1.000m $5.333m 42

At the point in which you waive him, there is only $7m left on the contract. So WORST case scenario the organization eats $7m if he is buried in the minors. Best case is they retire or you trade for a pick to a cap floor team.

So REALLY, what you are getting is a goalie who has been nominated for the Vezina 3 times of the last 6 years, and posted very good numbers over that period, took a team to game 7 of the finals, and won a gold medal at the olympics for a 6 year term at a $5.33m cap hit.

So in SFY's position to trade for one of the Vancouver goalies it will look this this:

1)Schneider, RFA, 26 years old, will probably be an all-star for the next 5 years minimum. Will likely need to be signed for between $3.75m (Shorter deal) to $5.5m (longer deal). Guy is a total beauty on and off the ice, great piece to build around.

Cost to Acquire: Gonna be pretty high. Looking at a top-pick and a blue chip prospect and or an impact roster player + a pick. Seen as how Gillis seems focused on building youth right now, it will likely be the former.

2) Luongo, $5.33m per year, 3-5 years of top service left. Contract analysis is above, regard it as a 6 year deal.

Cost to Acquire: Moderate. If no cap is going back he could probably be had for an extremely reasonable price (eg, the Det 1st) since basically the asset that Vancouver is trading for is Cap flexibility.

If cap is heading back, it will probably be an impact player of some form (eg. Malone).


To wrap it up:

So like I said before, I really don't care which of these two guys that SFY picks, because both will be a great fit in Tampa and will provide some stability in net. Schneider is more of a long term piece to build a franchise around but will be expensive to get. Luongo is proven and still solid with a good cap hit which is really only with 6 years left for decision making purposes that will allow Tampa to compete with the best in the league, and can probably be had for cheap. Luongo and a UFA Dman pick up and I see us back in the EC Finals.


Last edited by VanTampaFan: 05-06-2012 at 09:35 PM.
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Old
05-06-2012, 08:08 PM
  #474
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Malone won't waive.
Rumours had it that he would for vancouver. Saw it on the TSN panel.

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05-06-2012, 08:37 PM
  #475
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Rumours had it that he would for vancouver. Saw it on the TSN panel.
Not true.

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