HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

The FAN 1200 - Pierre McGuire - 3rd overall vs J. Staal??

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-04-2012, 01:06 PM
  #251
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,781
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
While Staal is a very good player he'll become expensive sooner than a newly drafted #3. Besides, he isn't a potentially game-breaking sniper/playmaker like his older brother. Having said that, I wish the highest rated players eligible for the 2012 draft (after Yakupov) were more attractive.
That's essentially the problem. If it was a draft year like Staal's I would say no but when the #2 guy(grigorenko) has question marks...then yah, it can be very ugly.

LyricalLyricist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 01:26 PM
  #252
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Has nothing to do with size...I like Plekanec as a player quite a bit. But his level of play the last 1.5 years has tailed off, I don't know why so many of you refuse to see this.

He needs to get back to the level he was at prior to signing his contract...
I don't think it's his play so much as his help has disppeared.

The year he had 70 points(09-10), Cammalleri had 26 goals in 65 games, Markov played half the year so the PP was pretty strong.

When playmaking is a big part of your game the guys with you have to put the puck in the net when you set them up. Cammalleri in 10-11 dropped to 19 goals in 67 games, a 30% drop. This year Cammalleri dropped off even more, another 17%.

When you add in the PP going from #1 to #29 that will also affect the offensive numbers. Plus he finished the year playing with guys like LeBlanc Moen Darche Bourque White, not exactly a recipe to pad the stats.

I think if you give him a healthy Gionta(who can pot 25-30) plus another 50 point skill winger(Semin Penner Stoll Jagr etc) plus a top 5 Pp I'm sure he puts up 65-70 points again.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 01:26 PM
  #253
gusfring
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,207
vCash: 500
Bourque-Staal-Parise
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole
Moen-Eller-Gionta
Prust-White-Staubitz/Blunden

Markov-Subban
Gorges-Emelin
Allen-Boghosian

Price
Budaj

For the fun of it.

gusfring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 01:27 PM
  #254
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Actually, Pleks need to play less minutes to be effective. No way this guy can play 82 games with nearly 20 minutes a game on ES, PP and PK. He is not physically built for that. That is why he is playing "like a little girl" when the playoffs start.

I hope the next coach will use him better. I hope Bergevin gonna find new players to play on PK and better and bigger wingers for Pleks
I think part of taht is to sign a PK/faceoff specialist for the 4th line to take some of those shifts off him and give him more offensive starts with better skilled players.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 08:11 PM
  #255
Habitant le colon
Registered User
 
Habitant le colon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 954
vCash: 500
lets make a shake up in 3 moves !!
_____________________________
1-

Mtl
3rd overall + Kristo (or Gallagher)

vs

Pittsburg
Staal + Tangradi
_____________________________
2-
Mtl
Tangradi Plekanec Nashville 2nd 2012 mtl 2nd 2013

vs

Columbus
Rick Nash + Columbus 2nd 2012
_____________________________
3-
Mtl
Greg Pateryn + mtl 7th 2012

vs

Florida

Keaton Ellerby
_____________________________

Attack : [30.867]
Left wing - Center - Right wing

Nash -. Staal . - Gionta
[7.800] - [4.000] - [5.000]
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
[1.625] - [0.850] - [4.500]
Leblanc -. Eller . - Moen
[1.170] - [1.500] - [1.500]
Staubitz -. White .- Blunden
[0.600] - [0.650] - [0.610]
Geoffrion
[1.062]

Defence : [22.125]

Markov - Subban
[5.750] - [3.850]
Gorges - Ellerby
[3.900] - [1.250]
Emelin - Kaberle
[1.300] - [4.250]
Weber - Diaz
[0.850] - [0.975]

Goaltenders : [6.800]

Price
[5.650]
Budaj
[1.150]


Buy out : [3,523,810]
Total : [63,315,810]


Habitant le colon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 08:18 PM
  #256
DJ Breadman
Registered User
 
DJ Breadman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Newfoundland
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,303
vCash: 500
Just watching prime time sports and they panel all agreed if you have a chance to get jordan staal you give up anything for him. I have to agree i'd def give up the 3rd this year for staal, if it's next year draft and we have a 3rd I keep it but this year i'm ok with trading it

DJ Breadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2012, 10:21 PM
  #257
Dagistitsyn
Registered User
 
Dagistitsyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,403
vCash: 500
Atleast with Staal you know you're getting a good NHL player. Still only 23 years old. I think he could really shine getting 1st line minutes and not playing with Cooke and whoever else he played with. Although he needs a new contract, atleast we would be getting him now, where as our draft pick is likely 2 maybe even 3 years away.

Only way it backfires is if Galchenyuk/Grigs turn out to be superstars.

I could understand MTL wanting to make this trade. They want to win now, don't want to miss playoffs again next year. I expect some trades for sure but Im not sure about this one.


Last edited by Dagistitsyn: 05-04-2012 at 10:28 PM.
Dagistitsyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2012, 08:19 AM
  #258
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrowe21 View Post
Atleast with Staal you know you're getting a good NHL player. Still only 23 years old. I think he could really shine getting 1st line minutes and not playing with Cooke and whoever else he played with. Although he needs a new contract, atleast we would be getting him now, where as our draft pick is likely 2 maybe even 3 years away.

Only way it backfires is if Galchenyuk/Grigs turn out to be superstars.

I could understand MTL wanting to make this trade. They want to win now, don't want to miss playoffs again next year. I expect some trades for sure but Im not sure about this one.
The odds of not getting an nHL player at #3 are pretty slim.

Also, the downside of trading the pick for an established player is that you then have to give him big money or he hits the UFA market(probably in the 6 mil/year range) PLUS guys like Eller and Plekanec already give us much of what Staal brings so it wouldn't be adding to a need. Eller is a big strong 2 way center and Plekanec is very good on PK and defensively and can contribute 55-70 points/year depending on linemates.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2012, 09:10 PM
  #259
FiveForDrawingBlood
Registered User
 
FiveForDrawingBlood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,477
vCash: 500
I would offer Plekanec as backbone in trade for Staal but not the 3 pick. Staal is not signed and cannot be signed until after July 1st as he is in midst of multi-year contract. Long after the draft. Either Forsberg or Galchenyuk should be equal/better than Staal and much cheaper

FiveForDrawingBlood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2012, 09:13 PM
  #260
Analyzer
#WeAreBoston
 
Analyzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Renfrew, ON.
Country: Canada
Posts: 40,683
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitant le colon View Post
2-
Mtl
Tangradi Plekanec Nashville 2nd 2012 mtl 2nd 2013

vs

Columbus
Rick Nash + Columbus 2nd 2012
Tangradi isn't worth anything right now. Rangers offered Stepan, Dubinsky, 2012 1st, Erixon and another player for just Nash. You expect to get him for Plekanec, a player worth nothing and 2 2nds while adding their own ?

You must have pulled this out of your colon.

Analyzer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2012, 09:25 PM
  #261
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
I would offer Plekanec as backbone in trade for Staal but not the 3 pick. Staal is not signed and cannot be signed until after July 1st as he is in midst of multi-year contract. Long after the draft. Either Forsberg or Galchenyuk should be equal/better than Staal and much cheaper
Here's the thing, though. If Gomez isn't going to be bought out, it's because Bergevin wants as much cap room as he can get in the short term (i.e. more concerned about where we'll be 2 years from now in a demotion scenario, not 4 via buyout). Since we're talking about short term, I think it's fair to say that no matter who we pick at #3, they won't be as good as Staal for a while (probably about 2 years, if ever).

I'd love to see Staal in the CH. As good as he is already at 23, and with over 70 playoff games under his belt, and only a $4 million cap hit next season? Worth it, imo, and exactly the kind of player we should be stealing and building around if we have the chance. I know everyone is stoked to actually have a high pick and use it, but we're talking about a former #2 overall pick who has more than met expectations.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2012, 09:36 PM
  #262
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Tangradi isn't worth anything right now. Rangers offered Stepan, Dubinsky, 2012 1st, Erixon and another player for just Nash. You expect to get him for Plekanec, a player worth nothing and 2 2nds while adding their own ?

You must have pulled this out of your colon.
I don't think the Rangers offered that, must be what Howson asked them for.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 01:53 AM
  #263
Habitant le colon
Registered User
 
Habitant le colon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Tangradi isn't worth anything right now. Rangers offered Stepan, Dubinsky, 2012 1st, Erixon and another player for just Nash. You expect to get him for Plekanec, a player worth nothing and 2 2nds while adding their own ?

You must have pulled this out of your colon.
Rangers refuse that howson wish ... from now on they won't accept any further deal with Blue Jackets for such insult. so Yeah a take a **** out of me cuz this would be the only ****ing deal that Howson will receive from a habs pov ....

Nash don't want to play anymore for Howson and his team he also cost a rocket salary .... perspective are the gomez deal : NHL ready player + propect + picks ... this is the only way Columbus must get a chance to deal their top scorer actually because they have ****ed up the relation with others team .... I guess that Howson will wait another year before trading Nash but this would hurt team chemistry alot!


Last edited by Habitant le colon: 05-07-2012 at 01:58 AM.
Habitant le colon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 01:56 AM
  #264
UniverStalinGraduate*
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,253
vCash: 500
Again...why would the team trade away a chance to draft and develop an 18 year old kid for the chance to acquire a 23 year old player who MAY put up great numbers in a 1st line role, or he MAY not.

Oh, and if he does the team can look forward to paying him at least 6 million next year...and that's if they're lucky and he doesn't bolt.

Horrible, horrible idea. Please don't do this Bergevin

UniverStalinGraduate* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 04:16 AM
  #265
Kimota
Nation of Poutine
 
Kimota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: La Vieille Capitale
Country: France
Posts: 21,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Breadman View Post
Just watching prime time sports and they panel all agreed if you have a chance to get jordan staal you give up anything for him. I have to agree i'd def give up the 3rd this year for staal, if it's next year draft and we have a 3rd I keep it but this year i'm ok with trading it
For Prime Time Sport though, hockey has never been their strong suit.

Kimota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2012, 10:02 AM
  #266
FiveForDrawingBlood
Registered User
 
FiveForDrawingBlood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Breadman View Post
Just watching prime time sports and they panel all agreed if you have a chance to get jordan staal you give up anything for him. I have to agree i'd def give up the 3rd this year for staal, if it's next year draft and we have a 3rd I keep it but this year i'm ok with trading it
I don't agree with give up anything for Staal. If he wasn't UFA give up 3rd but it is too risky.

BTW, Who would the Pens be looking at 3 to give them incentive to make this deal?

FiveForDrawingBlood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2012, 10:10 AM
  #267
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,379
vCash: 500
Staal is in the same boat as a guy like Getzlaf. You trade the farm for a guy with 1 year left on a great contract, but then he can be a UFA in 13 months and you could lose him for nothing or be forced to pay him Crosby/Ovechkin money so he doesn't leave.

Staal maybe a bit less so than Getzlaf because he doesn't have the point producing track record...but I'm sure that he and his agent want a year as a top center before being a uFA so he can prove he can put up 70-80 or more points when given an offensive role, in order to "buy out" that priviledge you'd probably have to give him 6 to 7 mil per year.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2012, 10:17 AM
  #268
RE-HABS
Registered User
 
RE-HABS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,885
vCash: 500
Staal as the #1 centre isn't going to be the same as Staal behind Crosby and Malkin, and people would have to see that. He has a great two way game, but Eric is better offensively too.

Would I trade for a big centre like Staal, sure, but not as my #1 centre, and we have a Staal Lite with Eller as far as I am concerned.

Stay the course, and use the high pick to get that top player we can get for the future.

RE-HABS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2012, 10:25 AM
  #269
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Staal as the #1 centre isn't going to be the same as Staal behind Crosby and Malkin, and people would have to see that. He has a great two way game, but Eric is better offensively too.

Would I trade for a big centre like Staal, sure, but not as my #1 centre, and we have a Staal Lite with Eller as far as I am concerned.

Stay the course, and use the high pick to get that top player we can get for the future.
That's a good point, before trading a pile of assets and using cap room on Staal, let's give Eller a couple more years to see how good he can be. I think his offense took a big step forward this year, unfortunately with all the injuries and AK being traded he ended up playing with low skill wingers a lot which IMHO cost him about 10-12 more points. He could have reached or gotten close to 40 points with virtually no PP time with a bit better linemates.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2012, 10:33 AM
  #270
poetryinmotion
Registered User
 
poetryinmotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,051
vCash: 500
I would trade the 3rd for Eric Stall only.

And Carolina's incentive would have to be that they want to take Grigorenko or Galchenyuk and start over with either of them instead.

poetryinmotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2012, 10:42 AM
  #271
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,106
vCash: 500
What would such a trade mean for the Habs? While Staal is a very good player I wouldn't consider him a first line center. Besides, they'd be taking on someone they couldn't be sure of keeping. It would mean they have their sights on advancing as far as they can in the 2013 playoffs but would it be enough even for that? They couldn't be sure of leading their own division.

Lets assume the deal goes through. Would a straight trade of Staal for the 2012 #3 favor the Habs? I think not. If the Pens are eager to make it and the Habs are willing they should demand additional assets, such as a first rounder in 2013 + another player or pick in 2012.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2012, 11:09 AM
  #272
JohnnyReb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 559
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The odds of not getting an nHL player at #3 are pretty slim.
Since we're dead-set against taking a defenseman this year here are the forwards drafted at #3, or the first forward drafted at after #3 if a defenseman was taken in that spot (since the new millenium).

2011: Huberdeau - too early to tell.

2010: Ryan Johansen - probably too early to tell as well. Had 9 goals last year (compared to Staal's 29 at the same age)

2009: Matt Duchene - nice comparable in my opinion. Similar style players, probably have to wait a few years to see if Duchene can be more of an offensive player.

2008: Nikita Filatov - Staal all the way, and I take Staal over Colin Wilson too, the next forward taken after Filatov.

2007: Kyle Turris - I take Staal any day, even if you think Phoenix messed up Turris and there is still untapped potential there.

2006: Jonathon Toews - I take Toews.

2005: Benoit Pouliot - do I have to say anything?

2004: Andrew Ladd - nice player, I'd still take Staal

2003: Nathan Horton - nice player, I'd still take Staal. And Staal over Zherdev, Vanek and Michalek too, the next three forwards taken.

2002: Scottie Upshall - Staal all the way, and Staal over Joffrey Lupul, Pierre-Marc Bouchard, Petr Taticek and Eric Nystrom too.

2001: Alexander Svitov - Staal of course, Next three were Weiss, Chistov and Mikko Koivu. Mikko Koivu is the only one that comes close, and that's just because I think Koivu is very underrated.

2000: Marian Gaborik - Gaborik.

Twelve drafts:

3 "too early to tells" in Huberdeau, Johansen and Duchene

2 "not Staal" in Toews and Gaborik

7 "Staal is better" than Filatov, Pouliot, Turris, Ladd, Horton, Upshall and Svitov

The odds seem to be squarely in Staal's favor. Yeah, he'll cost more, but do you want a good but expensive player, or a cheap, but mediocre player?

JohnnyReb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2012, 07:29 AM
  #273
FiveForDrawingBlood
Registered User
 
FiveForDrawingBlood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,477
vCash: 500
Pitt should trade Staal anyway they have too much money tied up in one position. Going to get worse real soon as Staal has to be re-signed. Pens great talent but not that hard to beat because they have so many holes elsewhere. I'd imagine they want a stud on defense or first line winger. Not that hard to sign a good 3rd line center to replace Staal.


Last edited by FiveForDrawingBlood: 05-13-2012 at 02:09 PM.
FiveForDrawingBlood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2012, 08:08 AM
  #274
Maxpac
Registered User
 
Maxpac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: hockey city
Posts: 13,429
vCash: 500
So a 22 year old player puts up 50 points on the stat sheet while playing a defensive role with Matt Cooke and Tyler Kennedy but he can't put up 1st line numbers while playing with 1st line players in an offensive role? Some solid reasoning some of you have... The kid's a PROVEN warrior who's still Eller's age.

Maxpac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2012, 08:18 AM
  #275
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
So a 22 year old player puts up 50 points on the stat sheet while playing a defensive role with Matt Cooke and Tyler Kennedy but he can't put up 1st line numbers while playing with 1st line players in an offensive role? Some solid reasoning some of you have... The kid's a PROVEN warrior who's still Eller's age.
It makes no sense, really.

I'd take Staal over any draft pick.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:10 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.