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NJ/Philly - What is NJ doing that we didn't do

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Old
05-07-2012, 09:13 AM
  #1
bigd
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NJ/Philly - What is NJ doing that we didn't do

What is NJ doing that the Pittsburgh couldn't.

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Old
05-07-2012, 09:15 AM
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MtlPenFan
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What is NJ doing that the Pittsburgh couldn't.
Doing what we did to win the Cup.

Aggressive forecheck
Responsible F3 covering for pinching D
Grinding *****es down
Tough, smart defense
Great PK

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05-07-2012, 09:39 AM
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schmidtlesauce
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Agree with MtlPenfan...They(devils) got to our (pens) game

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05-07-2012, 09:40 AM
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Well, their goalie is stopping the puck...

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05-07-2012, 09:44 AM
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Dupree13
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DB really looks worse and worse as this unfolds.

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05-07-2012, 09:49 AM
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Ignatius
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I'm so happy to see the Devils go up 3-1 on the Flyers. There was such a sense of euphoria in the Flyers fanbase as if by beating the Pens that they were seemingly guaranteed a Cup run, also the Giroux hype was getting out of hand. I don't want to root for anyone still playing in the east but to see the Philly lose to New Jersey, it will ease Pittburgh's loss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Doing what we did to win the Cup.

Aggressive forecheck
Responsible F3 covering for pinching D
Grinding *****es down
Tough, smart defense
Great PK
The Kings are as well to an even greater extent. LA's forecheck has been vicious.

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05-07-2012, 09:52 AM
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What is NJ doing that the Pittsburgh couldn't.
Not giving up 8 goals per game.

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05-07-2012, 09:53 AM
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DB really looks worse and worse as this unfolds.
Just need to go back to the Mid-March collapses that weren't addressed going into the playoffs and that makes him and his coaching staff look like they haven't got a clue.

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05-07-2012, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Doing what we did to win the Cup.

Aggressive forecheck
Responsible F3 covering for pinching D
Grinding *****es down
Tough, smart defense
Great PK
I though that was the Pens game plan when Bylsma first came in. What happened?

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Old
05-07-2012, 10:27 AM
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theking72
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I'll add playing whistle to whistle; skating away from scrums. Flyers are frustrated that we won't dance with them.

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05-07-2012, 10:29 AM
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bigd
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It's depressing because I think we have the players to accomplish what NJ is doing but we just didn't come close. Flower was one issue but I think the coaching staff has to look at changing their system, esp on the defensive side of things.

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05-07-2012, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkullSplitter View Post
I though that was the Pens game plan when Bylsma first came in. What happened?
Bylsma has decided that it is more important that the players like him personally than be a loathed taskmaster constantly pointing out what they're doing wrong and not giving the full maximum effort.

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05-07-2012, 10:31 AM
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bigd
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Originally Posted by theking72 View Post
I'll add playing whistle to whistle; skating away from scrums. Flyers are frustrated that we won't dance with them.
Very good point. They antagonised the Pens into taking a lot of stupid penalties.

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Old
05-07-2012, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SkullSplitter View Post
I though that was the Pens game plan when Bylsma first came in. What happened?
To be fair to Bylsma and his system, in that series with Philly, and even to a degree all year, some of the players regressed in amazing fashion. You can have the greatest system in the world and if the players are not executing you will look like crap. Our favorite whipping boy Martin is just one example, but the entire team looked like crap defensively that series.

That said they were excuting at an extremely high level for a huge part of the year, losing what, like three games over 25 or so at one point? They had defensive issues even then though. But the point is we are overrreacting somewhat to a very small sample size, five games. Which came at the worst time that they could come.

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05-07-2012, 10:34 AM
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gordie
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Does Bylsma have the ability to know when players are regressing and then have the ability and talent of a good coach to do something about it?

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05-07-2012, 10:47 AM
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I think we completely got away from what makes us successful. When we play defense first and make chances off of turnovers and odd man rushes we're deadly because of our skill. When we play run and gun it looks good and we score a ton but our chances of winning are 50/50. And we were on the wrong side of that in the first round. Think of some of the teams that give Pittsburgh trouble, OTTAWA, PHILLY, TORONTO, WINNIPEG, etc. All run and gun teams that can score. The really good defensive teams didn't want to see us at all in the playoffs. Look at our record against the WEST. They play rock steady defense and have an almost impossible time beating us.

I feel it is Bylsma who needs to figure things out. This team plays to whatever style the opposing team wishes to play. We won the cup in 09 because we could play any style. Pittsburgh never dictates the type of game and that falls on the COACHING!!!

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05-07-2012, 10:54 AM
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Uncle Jorgi
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Despite all the whiners on here that want to blame the coaching staff for everything because the truth is just to messy for them to wrap their heads around intellectually, the truth is the Devils are playing exactly the way the Pens want to play. Like MTLPensfan says in the second post, they are doing everything right within their system, playing disciplined and putting the team and the system first. The Pens had too many players going outside the system to try to make a play, too many players making incorrect reads, too many players giving weak efforts. And we got awful goaltending to boot (though that was somewhat of a wash, considering the goalies on both teams were terrible).

Last year, one of the only offensively gifted players left on the team, Kovalev, was basically a passenger. This year, a third of our team were passengers.

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05-07-2012, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordie View Post
Does Bylsma have the ability to know when players are regressing and then have the ability and talent of a good coach to do something about it?
The Pens won at an almost historic rate until like a week before the playoffs started. As I said, we are overblowing a relatively small sample size, because of when the Pens decided to crap the bed. What adjustments is he going to make when you win something like 20 of 23 games? There were threads on the main board asking if the playoffs should even bee played and that the cup should just be handed to Pittsburgh. The media said the same thing.

There are some issues, I grant that, including with Bylsma, and blame, but all I am asking is some perspective.

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05-07-2012, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Jorgi View Post
Despite all the whiners on here that want to blame the coaching staff for everything because the truth is just to messy for them to wrap their heads around intellectually, the truth is the Devils are playing exactly the way the Pens want to play. Like MTLPensfan says in the second post, they are doing everything right within their system, playing disciplined and putting the team and the system first. The Pens had too many players going outside the system to try to make a play, too many players making incorrect reads, too many players giving weak efforts. And we got awful goaltending to boot (though that was somewhat of a wash, considering the goalies on both teams were terrible).

Last year, one of the only offensively gifted players left on the team, Kovalev, was basically a passenger. This year, a third of our team were passengers.
Man, this happens because of bad coaching and the inability to adapt.

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05-07-2012, 11:07 AM
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Dupree13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Jorgi View Post
Despite all the whiners on here that want to blame the coaching staff for everything because the truth is just to messy for them to wrap their heads around intellectually, the truth is the Devils are playing exactly the way the Pens want to play. Like MTLPensfan says in the second post, they are doing everything right within their system, playing disciplined and putting the team and the system first. The Pens had too many players going outside the system to try to make a play, too many players making incorrect reads, too many players giving weak efforts. And we got awful goaltending to boot (though that was somewhat of a wash, considering the goalies on both teams were terrible).

Last year, one of the only offensively gifted players left on the team, Kovalev, was basically a passenger. This year, a third of our team were passengers.
What you are describing is a team that had a total meltdown in discipline, composure, cohesion, and focused effort. And yet that's somehow not on DB? He lost control of the team. They were the complete opposite of a well-oiled machine.

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05-07-2012, 11:13 AM
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Uncle Jorgi
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Man, this happens because of bad coaching and the inability to adapt.
No offense, man, but these guys are adults, many of whom have been playing this system for a while. Blaming the coaching for players making stupid mistakes and giving half efforts at crucial times is a copout that absolves these guys of the responsibility they own as professionals. It happens from time to time with any team, i'm not trying to demonize them, but Jesus, they're not children, and they don't have any excuses. They know the game, and they know their system. If they're playing that way in the system they are familiar with, what is your solution? Give them new wrinkles so the unfocused players who are slumping can **** up the new concepts even worse than they were ****ing up the old ones?

This whole fan thing that makes it the coaches fault that professional players are playing poorly just blows my mind. Apparently next we'll be hearing that Ken Hitchcock is a dunce because the Blues just got worked in 4 games. It's amazing how a guy goes from being great to being dog **** in the space of week because the team didn't meet their expectations.

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Old
05-07-2012, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by SkullSplitter View Post
I though that was the Pens game plan when Bylsma first came in. What happened?
I don't know man. I'm watching these last three games, and I've had a stupid grin on my face the entire time because A) The Flyers are getting owned and B) That's how we used to play....

It truly is remarkable. First off, it takes a heck of a work ethic to play that style, and aside from systematic play, the Devils are working their ***** off. They're hustling to every loose puck and winning every board battle. That in itself can win you a ton of games.

But aside from that, it's the same old thing from '09 where opposing teams, according to analysts at the time, "Can't handle the forecheck". The Flyers can't clear the zone because every single attempt at clearing the puck up the wall is being met with a point man anticipating and pinching down as far as the circles, with a forward ALWAYS covering up for them.

Another thing is they're not forcing shots. Yeah, it's not productive stats wise to give and go in circles around the perimeter, but it sure as **** tires the defense out as they try to chase you down. When the Flyers do clear, the only thing they can do is go to the bench for a change while the Devils come back for more. This takes it's toll during a game, and then the latter stages of a series.

I honestly don't know what happened, but we lost our identity somewhere along the line. All the right words are there when it comes to HOW we want to play, but whether it's the players or the coaches are a combination of both, it's all gone now. Watching that '09 Cup run, Hal Gil for God's sakes was pinching in just to keep a cycle alive. I don't know where all that went.

The way we lost last year, I wonder if DB didn't just chalk it up to injuries, and figured we didn't have to adjust much because a healthy Sid and Geno would have made short work of the Lightning.

With how BAD the team looked and the staff looked, we have to wonder if DB was finally humbled and is carefully looking at what the Devils are doing right now to beat the team that humiliated him, and isn't going to come back a different coach next year.

Time to get back to our roots Dan...

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Old
05-07-2012, 11:21 AM
  #23
bigd
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Originally Posted by Uncle Jorgi View Post
No offense, man, but these guys are adults, many of whom have been playing this system for a while. Blaming the coaching for players making stupid mistakes and giving half efforts at crucial times is a copout that absolves these guys of the responsibility they own as professionals. It happens from time to time with any team, i'm not trying to demonize them, but Jesus, they're not children, and they don't have any excuses. They know the game, and they know their system. If they're playing that way in the system they are familiar with, what is your solution? Give them new wrinkles so the unfocused players who are slumping can **** up the new concepts even worse than they were ****ing up the old ones?

This whole fan thing that makes it the coaches fault that professional players are playing poorly just blows my mind. Apparently next we'll be hearing that Ken Hitchcock is a dunce because the Blues just got worked in 4 games. It's amazing how a guy goes from being great to being dog **** in the space of week because the team didn't meet their expectations.
Sometimes coaches just lose their team. That's why coaches that have won in the past get fired. The new coach comes in and makes changes.

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Old
05-07-2012, 11:27 AM
  #24
Uncle Jorgi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
What you are describing is a team that had a total meltdown in discipline, composure, cohesion, and focused effort. And yet that's somehow not on DB? He lost control of the team. They were the complete opposite of a well-oiled machine.
This has never happened except when a coach lost control of the team, correct? It's a convenient excuse. Every time we played the system correctly the past two years, we looked great. And when we weren't playing it correctly in the playoffs, and a lot of guys were unfocused, we looked like ****. So apparently, this happened because he lost control of the team. How did that happen exactly? Do u believe they looked at the evidence over the past two years and actually made the conscious choice that they weren't gonna play the right way because they had a better way? Or was it just the case that the coaching staff was fine, the system was fine, but a select group of players weren't playing up to their usual standard?

If you want to blame the coach for players not playing the way they are capable, and previously have always shown that they can play, then explain to me exactly how to combat it. Like Ray Shero said in his interview with NHL Live, at some point the players have to go out on the ice and execute. Sometimes some of the players just have to stand up and say, "I played like ****. It's not the coach's fault i ran out of position to chase a guy who was already being defended and left my man all alone 4 feet from the net. It's mine."

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05-07-2012, 11:29 AM
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DoctrSteveBrule
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i think it has something to do with ribs after the game or something

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