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05-07-2012, 11:13 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by hockey diva View Post
The buck has to stop somewhere. And the only constant through all this has been Trotz.
This team would be leaps and bounds better with a legit top line center and SK on another team. That is where the bucks are making it rain

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05-07-2012, 11:16 AM
  #202
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I have no problem with developing a franchise the right way but until the franchise gets in the mindset of failure is anything but the Cup, then we will go nowhere as a franchise. The owners say the goal is a Cup. The team went all in. Not saying that a Cup should've been the only result but to me, this is unacceptable. Maybe I'm expecting too much but I'll tell you this, if I were one of the owners, I'd expect more. They talk the talk, Poile has talked the talk as well as Trotz. Well, barring an amazing comeback, the didn't back it up. When you say you're going all in and play like we have this series, I don't have high hopes for the franchise with the man behind the bench.

A coach, manager, anyone in that position whether it's sports or in life, is supposed to be a leader. They should have their team ready to play. They should be firing on all cylinders this team of year. Has anyone seen a Preds team in this series play like it's the playoffs? There is a level of play that happens during the season and then there's playoff hockey. We have not been playing playoff hockey. Playoff hockey is about sacrifice. Playoff hockey is taking a hit to make a play. Playoff hockey isyabouta going down and blocking shots. Playoff hockey is finishing off checks. Playoff hockey is about standing up for your teammates when they get run. Playoff hockey if finishing your chances. Playoff hockey is about being ready to go for 60 minutes and into overtime if necessary.

Dryden, you know as well as I do what it takes to win a Cup. I watched the Habs do it growing up. I watched the Islanders do it, then the Oilers and so forth. There is almost a desperation that comes with winning 16 games to win it all. I just don't see it with this bunch. The closest I saw was a play made by Wilson in game 3. Up 2-0 in the third, his line and defense pair had been out for a long shift. The puck came back to the point where it was shot. He went down to block the shot, which he did, then proceeded to get the puck, skate up ice, giving his teammates a chance to change behind the play. He made sure he got the puck across center ice and kept going with it, not taking a chance with a dump in. This is sacrifice. This is knowing the situation. Erat has shown a ton of passion in his game. If everyone showed that level of commitment we would be up in this series but there are too many passengers and not enough players. Coaches are there to motivate and for those that say it's on the players to motivate, then why have a coach if the players can do it all? Coaches are there to organize them and strategize and get the most out of them. While Trotz has done that for years, getting the most out of nothing, he has the players to do it yet we are struggling. I hope he's figured it out or tomorrow is going to suck for a lot of people around here.
Oh yes growing up watching my beloved HABS win cup after cup through the 70s and knowing what it takes to win. Watching these guys now and the effort that seems to come from the bottom up and in many cases the top down it just doesn't seem to be there. I feel your pain for sure it seems they like to say all the right things but aren't prepared to lay it all on teh line when the game is on the line. THis goes from ownership to management and on down to the guys wearing the jersey. The stanley cup playoffs are a battle and you don't win the battle with a general and soldirs that aren't ready to sacrifice everything for the greater good.

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05-07-2012, 11:46 AM
  #203
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Since the standard is you must win the highest possible award within 13 seasons, how many here have achieved that in life? How many Time people of the year are here? (there are a few of us around here ) Nobel winners? Pulitzers? Grammy winners? Tony winners? Oscars?

Let's keep it simpler. How many valedictorians?

Funny how so many who aren't at the top of their grouping are calling Trotz and the Preds failures for not reaching the top of their profession in a given year.

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05-07-2012, 12:02 PM
  #204
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Since the standard is you must win the highest possible award within 13 seasons, how many here have achieved that in life? How many Time people of the year are here? (there are a few of us around here ) Nobel winners? Pulitzers? Grammy winners? Tony winners? Oscars?

Let's keep it simpler. How many valedictorians?

Funny how so many who aren't at the top of their grouping are calling Trotz and the Preds failures for not reaching the top of their profession in a given year.
Dude, seriously? The Cup is everyone's goal from the get go. As an expansion team there is a growth period. Then there are the expectations of making the playoffs. Then there's the expectation of winning a playoff series. And so on. Did I expect to win the Cup this year, no but did I expect more from this bunch to this point, absolutely. When a franchise goes all in and gives this sort of effort, something needs to be changed. We added pieces and took a risk and that's great but you have to put up or shut up. These guys aren't getting it done and to be honest, if I were Suter, I wouldn't come back for next season. Regardless of any of the other guys coming back, I could care less but the one piece that needs to be built on is probably not going to be here because the entire team did not do anything in this round. It's not going to leave a good taste in his mouth for sure and maybe Poile works his magic and re-signs Suter and Weber but if you were those guys, would you stay in this situation?

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05-07-2012, 12:23 PM
  #205
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This franchise is at a crossroads right now. We have shredded the expansion filth, have made the playoffs for most of the last decade, have marquee players and have gained a positive reputation around the league. So that's awesome and 13 years in the making. Now, I think a lot of people sort of assume the natural progression is to keep getting better, take no steps back, and eventually get a Cup. And by eventually I mean probably the next couple of years. It's not that easy. We are now among some of the top-tier teams in the league, where there is no room for error to get to the top. It's easier to build yourself into a consistent playoff team than to build yourself from playoff team to champion. If it was easy then everyone would do it and it wouldn't take long. I can guarantee we will win a Cup and that it won't take us as long as St. Louis or Vancouver, etc. If it does, these boards are gonna get pretty repetitive over the next 30 years.

I still think Trotz is the least of our problems. I love the guy but I still disagree with some things he does but at the end of the day I think he still gives us a chance at the dance every season and that's something that people start to dismiss when we haven't been able to get to elite status. While that's understandable, a lot of people look across the league at teams that get random success like Carolina, Tampa Bay, etc. and it skews expectations for us, like "Ohhh they could do it why can't we???" Again, not that easy, and the odds are better as a whole by building continuously like this than hoping to pull a needle out of a haystack.


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05-07-2012, 12:44 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Dude, seriously? The Cup is everyone's goal from the get go. As an expansion team there is a growth period. Then there are the expectations of making the playoffs. Then there's the expectation of winning a playoff series. And so on. Did I expect to win the Cup this year, no but did I expect more from this bunch to this point, absolutely. When a franchise goes all in and gives this sort of effort, something needs to be changed. We added pieces and took a risk and that's great but you have to put up or shut up. These guys aren't getting it done and to be honest, if I were Suter, I wouldn't come back for next season. Regardless of any of the other guys coming back, I could care less but the one piece that needs to be built on is probably not going to be here because the entire team did not do anything in this round. It's not going to leave a good taste in his mouth for sure and maybe Poile works his magic and re-signs Suter and Weber but if you were those guys, would you stay in this situation?
then why all the complaining about the COACH if its the PLAYERS that hadnt lived up to YOUR hype? Seems weird to be calling for trotz head if thats the case. Whatever all you can continue to hate on trotz for your reasons. I think the preds will keep em. Thanks for the suggestion though.

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05-07-2012, 12:46 PM
  #207
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05-07-2012, 12:58 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by CantBeatMyPekka View Post
then why all the complaining about the COACH if its the PLAYERS that hadnt lived up to YOUR hype? Seems weird to be calling for trotz head if thats the case. Whatever all you can continue to hate on trotz for your reasons. I think the preds will keep em. Thanks for the suggestion though.
And the section you highlighted wasn't just a reference of the players but the entire team, coaches AND players.

But being that the coach has had multiple types of rosters over the years and can't get it done, you can keep the coach and have the same results year in and year out. Sorry if I want more.

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05-07-2012, 01:01 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
And the section you highlighted wasn't just a reference of the players but the entire team, coaches AND players.

But being that the coach has had multiple types of rosters over the years and can't get it done, you can keep the coach and have the same results year in and year out. Sorry if I want more.
The results haven't been the same year in and year out, though. Unless you are looking at it in the "we didn't win it all, so the result's just the same" viewpoint.

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05-07-2012, 02:10 PM
  #210
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It's about making the Playoffs ....

We are so spoiled. We have not played a meaningless regular season game in 8 years. We're one of the most consistently winning teams in the league. We're fun to watch and have a great game atmosphere. Whether we win the Cup or not is based on breaks once you reach a certain level. We may go all the way soon, but it's not about that. It's about being in position to win it so each year we have hope.

Barry will coach us for the next 10 years. We will continue to make the playoffs and possibly win a Cup. Enjoy the ride every year. It's better than 90% of the fan bases get.

Our consistent management is our key to success. You want disaster in Smashville. Miss the playoffs for 2 or 3 years in a row and play meaningless games in March. Hockey will not survive here if we become a non-playoff team. Barry and DP make us a playoff team.

People can post until their fingers wear out. Barry Trotz will never be fired as long as we're making the playoffs, as it should be.

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05-07-2012, 02:19 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by BourqueBourqueBork View Post
The results haven't been the same year in and year out, though. Unless you are looking at it in the "we didn't win it all, so the result's just the same" viewpoint.
In the game of hockey and especially the NHL what viewpoint are you supposed to look at it in? I mean you are supposed to look at it as win or go home and winning a championship is the ultimate goal. As an outsider I can say Glenn is correct the result is the same and remains the same out in one out in 2 is that really where you like seeing your team in the playoffs?

ILILI: So you are happy just making it to the post season? I mean isn't it the ultimate goal to win a cup and take part in the parade? I have been involved in a cup parade as part of the parade in 02 when the Wings won it let me tell you there is nothing in sports that is anything close to that feeling. To just be happy making it and say well once you are in anything can happen sure but ALWAYS expect and demand more of the team and franchise never settle or you become the Leafs.

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05-07-2012, 03:05 PM
  #212
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ILILI: So you are happy just making it to the post season? I mean isn't it the ultimate goal to win a cup and take part in the parade? I have been involved in a cup parade as part of the parade in 02 when the Wings won it let me tell you there is nothing in sports that is anything close to that feeling. To just be happy making it and say well once you are in anything can happen sure but ALWAYS expect and demand more of the team and franchise never settle or you become the Leafs.
I will go along with ILIILI. I would rather have a chance at the cup every year than miss a few years and possible lose the team, which is something that will never go away

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05-07-2012, 03:47 PM
  #213
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I think we can all see why this thread developed. Trotz made a stupid play and finds the team down 3-1, heading back to Phoenix. While it's great we're in the 2nd round again, Trotz losing in the playoffs is becoming too familiar.

I can't say one way or the other is better. I've seen franchises get a new coach and win immediatley, or a new coach comes in and things explode.

I could probably guess your investing style by how you comment on this thread. There are some high risk/reward guys, and then some long-term dividend/yield players, and then some guys who get lost in the due dilligence and just never seem to make a play one way or the other (me).

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05-07-2012, 03:50 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by ILikeItILoveIt View Post
We are so spoiled. We have not played a meaningless regular season game in 8 years. We're one of the most consistently winning teams in the league. We're fun to watch and have a great game atmosphere. Whether we win the Cup or not is based on breaks once you reach a certain level. We may go all the way soon, but it's not about that. It's about being in position to win it so each year we have hope.

Barry will coach us for the next 10 years. We will continue to make the playoffs and possibly win a Cup. Enjoy the ride every year. It's better than 90% of the fan bases get.

Our consistent management is our key to success. You want disaster in Smashville. Miss the playoffs for 2 or 3 years in a row and play meaningless games in March. Hockey will not survive here if we become a non-playoff team. Barry and DP make us a playoff team.

People can post until their fingers wear out. Barry Trotz will never be fired as long as we're making the playoffs, as it should be.
Nobody gets this on my board either. I actually applaud Nashville for sticking with Trotz all these years, and now that you are closer then you ever have been to the cup you want him gone?

It's no secret that a lot of the players on Nashville play a lot better than they should be capable of, and that's because the system is among the best in the NHL. I would imagine that Barry Trotz has developed really strong bonds with some of your most important players (Weber, Legwand, Erat, etc.).

I have a question for all of the posters who think he should be canned. Can another coach really come in here and, with the same team Trotz has at his disposal, get this team to the next level? That's all Barry has ever done is improve this team. I don't understand this.

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05-07-2012, 04:11 PM
  #215
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I will go along with ILIILI. I would rather have a chance at the cup every year than miss a few years and possible lose the team, which is something that will never go away
This x10000

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05-07-2012, 04:34 PM
  #216
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In the game of hockey and especially the NHL what viewpoint are you supposed to look at it in? I mean you are supposed to look at it as win or go home and winning a championship is the ultimate goal. As an outsider I can say Glenn is correct the result is the same and remains the same out in one out in 2 is that really where you like seeing your team in the playoffs?
What I like/want and what I expect/can live with are two different things.

I want us to win the Cup, every single year. I want us to win every single game. I want Pekka Rinne to score a hat trick.

But the reality is that there is a small chance of actually winning the Cup...even if you have a very good team. It's even harder with this much parity in the sport. Of course, the parity is one of the things that helps our cause, rather than having to face stacked All-Star teams.

I am never "glad" at the end of the season, when we've been knocked out of the playoffs. But I am always appreciative of what the team has done. That's one of the reasons why we give the team a standing O, even when they get eliminated in our home building.


I am not a fan because of the results. I am a fan because this is my city's team. And I will be a fan as long as they are here. Do I want to see them move on to the third round? Positively. But I'm not going to jump off a bridge if they don't.


I am a UT football fan, and I have a little experience in seeing a longtime coach fired...one that had lost favor with a lot of fans. But the result of the firing wasn't a bounce back to success. It's been years of misery instead. Rather than getting us back to being able to compete for titles, it has pushed us into the cellar of the conference.

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05-07-2012, 04:34 PM
  #217
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I have a question for all of the posters who think he should be canned. Can another coach really come in here and, with the same team Trotz has at his disposal, get this team to the next level? That's all Barry has ever done is improve this team. I don't understand this.
At what point does this guy have to produce though?

This is a league where more teams make the playoffs than miss them - making the playoffs is not an accomplishment.

The team has been consistently mediocre under Trotz. That's great for growth as an expansion team. After 13 years, I would hope we're past that phase. If your argument for not putting any heat on Trotz is "well, we might do worse", I don't buy it. You can't hit a homerun if you don't swing.

I tend also to disagree with the other folks who say that making the playoffs with this franchise and to be "in the hunt" is the best we can hope for.

If that's the case, might as well load up the trucks to Hamilton - because people aren't going to continue to put up with the ever increasing price of season tickets when the return is, at best, a second round flameout. Mediocrity breeds apathy.

I think folks could stomach a rebuilding year or two - it's how you land the Crosbys and the Ovechkins and the Toews/Kanes, etc.

I don't want Trotz fired at this point - we're not the first team to get beaten in the playoffs by an inferior team with a hot goalie. Won't be the last either.

But some folks act like this guy walks on water. At any point, is anyone going to demand anything better than a 2nd round pooping of the bed?

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05-07-2012, 04:35 PM
  #218
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It boggles my mind that some people try to justify their beliefs that "just making the playoffs every year" isn't good enough. Theoretically, yes, we wanna go further, but on the other hand how are you supposed to win it all without being a consistently competitive team?

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05-07-2012, 04:47 PM
  #219
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Personally, my opinion is this...After being a fan of a team that kept Don Waddell employed for their entire existence, the "fire Trotz" idea is really....really silly. Just my opinion.
As one who cheers for the franchise that gave Doug MacLean the chance to continually remind the Toronto media that he drafted Rick Nash, I quite concur. Those of us who have experienced true misery, deep down, know just how ludicrous this debate is.

It's like Trotz is a failure because he hasn't created a multi-Cup dynasty. By this standard, Mike Babcock should've been fired yesterday because of his failures to follow up.

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05-07-2012, 04:49 PM
  #220
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It boggles my mind that some people try to justify their beliefs that "just making the playoffs every year" isn't good enough. Theoretically, yes, we wanna go further, but on the other hand how are you supposed to win it all without being a consistently competitive team?
You don't need to be consistenly competitive to win a championship. Ask Tampa, Carolina, Chicago, Anaheim. That all missed the playoffs soon before or soon after winning a cup.

Although it doesn't hurt.

The goal is to win a Stanley Cup. Anything less is a failure. Doesn't mean we should sack the entire team every season. But either you're trying to win a cup or not.

Who the heck puts together a team whose goal is the playoffs, and then hoping to get lucky? The goal is always the Cup.

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05-07-2012, 04:50 PM
  #221
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At what point does this guy have to produce though?

This is a league where more teams make the playoffs than miss them - making the playoffs is not an accomplishment.
What is "producing"? If making the playoffs every year isn't then I assume making the WCF and ahead in the majority of years is, and I'd like to see a franchise that is always in that position.

Quote:
The team has been consistently mediocre under Trotz. That's great for growth as an expansion team. After 13 years, I would hope we're past that phase. If your argument for not putting any heat on Trotz is "well, we might do worse", I don't buy it. You can't hit a homerun if you don't swing.
The team has been consistently mediocre under Trotz? This can't be a serious comment. Compared to consistent Cup contenders, sure, we're mediocre but I'm not sure in what universe our last 8 seasons, and that's after being considered a model expansion franchise, is considered mediocre.




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I tend also to disagree with the other folks who say that making the playoffs with this franchise and to be "in the hunt" is the best we can hope for.
No one says "being in the hunt" is the best we can hope for. Classic word-spinning. Being in the hunt allows for more of a shot at a Cup than being the Blue Jackets.


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If that's the case, might as well load up the trucks to Hamilton - because people aren't going to continue to put up with the ever increasing price of season tickets when the return is, at best, a second round flameout. Mediocrity breeds apathy.
Yeah let's move to Hamilton. That's the spirit. Just making the playoffs is unacceptable. Never mind the fact that the team's attendance and presence in the city is at an all-time high.


Quote:
I think folks could stomach a rebuilding year or two - it's how you land the Crosbys and the Ovechkins and the Toews/Kanes, etc.
Yes, tell the rest of the market that we're going to gut one of the most solid franchises in the league for the sake of rebuilding for a year or two. That works all the time I'm sure. No team is going to intentionally try and suck for the sake of hoping to score a good young talent buy winning the draft lottery. That's pretty much organizational suicide. I can't believe I'm still talking about this.





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You don't need to be consistenly competitive to win a championship. Ask Tampa, Carolina, Chicago, Anaheim. That all missed the playoffs soon before or soon after winning a cup.
I would rather be us than one of those consistently under-acheiveing teams any day of the week.

Quote:
Who the heck puts together a team whose goal is the playoffs, and then hoping to get lucky?
Chicago is the only team in that list that I would consider a solid organization. And even then it took them something like 40 or 50 years in between cups

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05-07-2012, 04:53 PM
  #222
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16 of 30 teams make the playoffs.. take away the bottom 5 teams which in my mind as long as poile as GM, we wont see regardless of the coach.. 16/25.. really imo we have a 60-70% of making the playoffs every year.. how could you not with weber/suter... and a stud goalie ever since 03-04 .. thanks mitch korn...

in almost 14 seasons... trotz has accomplished ...

0 division titles
0 president trophys
5 1st round exits
2 (?) second round exits

honestly trotz hasnt accomplished much of anything. if he doesn't bring home a division title or at least an appearance in the WCF this or next year, I think his job could become questioned

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05-07-2012, 04:53 PM
  #223
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It's like Trotz is a failure because he hasn't created a multi-Cup dynasty. By this standard, Mike Babcock should've been fired yesterday because of his failures to follow up.
Mike Babcock won a cup.

Barry Trotz has won what?

Again, I'm not on the fire Trotz bandwagon, but I don't see why we shouldn't apply a little heat after this years disaster.

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05-07-2012, 05:03 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post

The team has been consistently mediocre under Trotz? This can't be a serious comment. Compared to consistent Cup contenders, sure, we're mediocre but I'm not sure in what universe our last 8 seasons, and that's after being considered a model expansion franchise, is considered mediocre.
16 teams out of 30 make the playoffs. Which means in the years you go out in the first round, you pretty much end up 8-16th. That's middle of the pack. That's mediocre.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
Yeah let's move to Hamilton. That's the spirit. Just making the playoffs is unacceptable. Never mind the fact that the team's attendance and presence in the city is at an all-time high.

And how long with that last when the ticket prices keep going up and up and up and people keep getting tired of finishing in the middle of the pack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
Yes, tell the rest of the market that we're going to gut one of the most solid franchises in the league for the sake of rebuilding for a year or two. That works all the time I'm sure. No team is going to intentionally try and suck for the sake of hoping to score a good young talent buy winning the draft lottery. That's pretty much organizational suicide. I can't believe I'm still talking about this.

I'm not saying to tank, just that I think if we had to rebuild (and we will, eventually), folks can deal with it. Especially if we end up with one of those big time young guns we all want.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
I would rather be us than one of those consistently under-acheiveing teams any day of the week.


Chicago is the only team in that list that I would consider a solid organization. And even then it took them something like 40 or 50 years in between cups
I'd take any one of those "consistently under-acheiveing teams " Stanley Cups over our happy to be in the second round seasons.

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05-07-2012, 05:05 PM
  #225
ILikeItILoveIt
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I love this Ricky Bobby view of the world: "If you're not first, you're last". Anything besides the Cup is a failure.

Given the choice between a major Cup run every 5 years or a consistent playoff team with a real shot but falling short, I take the latter.

That isn't settling, it's the reality of professional sports. We are fortunate to be still playing in May and have the excitement of tonight's game.

I know what it feels like to:

1) Have my team win it all
2) Have my team make the playoffs
3) Have my team be a consistent loser and rarely make the playoffs

Option 3 is the pits. Option 1 is the goal but it's fleeting. Option 2 is the consistent goal. Without it, you can never achieve Option 1.

And by the way, since we don't know for sure if we'd have won Game 4 with the Bad Boys, why is that move considered an offense worth firing him over. We may have scored a goal but gave up 2 more if they played D like they did in Game 2.

I suggest those ticked off at Trotz for not winning a Cup yet to adopt the BJs or the Wild or the Jets. Ask those teams if they could turn the clock back to 1998 and 2000 whether they would rather have the DP/Trotz duo running their franchise or the cast of Bozo's they've hired and fired since then.

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