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2011-2012 NBA/College Basketball Thread *Part II*

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05-06-2012, 07:33 PM
  #501
NYR Sting
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
I know you stopped watching the Knicks when they started winning, but Fields was abysmal with Anthony on the bench, especially when Woodson had an 11-man rotations. Unless you think Melo spiked his gatorade or put icy hot in his jock as well.
I never stopped watching. I actually started watching more. I wanted to see if Anthony was going to magically start playing like he cared. And while watching, I don't remember many situations where Fields wasn't on the floor with one of Anthony or Smith. Anthony is a complete moron of a player. I mean, a guy who just makes astoundingly bad decisions. But Smith is on a whole different level of stupid. And whenever either of them have the ball, the offense comes to a screeching halt.

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He was a smart player, and the Knicks were carried by Stats 30.0 ppg average. He was open 90 pct of the time and had a PG who was a playmaker. Fields is a high maintenance player who needs everything to be perfect for him to score.

Again, Fields' shot has been flat all season. The guys who cover the Knicks say so as well. I guess that's hit teammates fault too.
If you call ball movement high maintenance, then sure. he's high maintenance. I guess every team to win an NBA championship in, let's say, the last 30 years is full of high maintenance players. Those teams all featured exceptional ball movement. LOL. Fields, the energy bench player in his second season after being drafted in the 2nd round (and a great pick, by the way), is the high maintenance player. What do you call Anthony then?

The ONLY thing I said about Fields as a shooter was that he needs to improve his jump shot. I said Fields is a versatile role player. His usefulness, IMO, has very little to do with scoring. Rebounding, passing and his length on defense are what you're looking for from him. But whatever scoring contributions he made before the Anthony trade had more to do with pushing the ball in transition than him being open. He was getting most of his points on the break.

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"Dregs of the east"?????

Please. They beat Chicago, won in Indiana, in Philly, in orlando, they beat the Clippers in a must win for LA, they beat Atlanta.....

Come on.....All those games were "must wins".

Knicks dont get into the playoffs without Melo. I know it kills you reading that but you're the only Knick hater I know who refuses to acknowledge that.
Refuses to acknowledge that? I said on this board before the season that the Knicks would probably finish 3rd or 4th in the East! The Knicks did worse this season than I thought they would. And, in fact, the Knicks could have easily finished 3rd or 4th in the East. The Knicks could have gotten to the 2nd round of the playoffs if not for Anthony throwing the first 3 months of the season away. Anthony basically spit in the face of every Knick fan this season. He totally wasted this season for the team. They still would have lost to Miami or a healthy Chicago, but they could have avoided having to play them in the first round if he had given even a modicum of effort while D'Antoni was here.

And, yes, dregs of the East. The East is pathetic, especially with Howard injured. All those wins you listed, the Indianas, the Philadelphias, the Atlantas, the Clippers...these are not great teams. The only great team on that list is Chicago, and the Knicks won one game against them when Rose had just returned from injury and played really poorly. Besides, none of those wins happen if Anthony doesn't provide the kind of defensive effort that, to this point, in his career, he's provided in only the rarest of instances. I don't know why you expect that now, all of a sudden, he's going to keep it up. He's never kept it going for any extended period of time before. He certainly didn't keep it going in this series against the Heat.


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05-06-2012, 08:18 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I never stopped watching. I actually started watching more. I wanted to see if Anthony was going to magically start playing like he cared. And while watching, I don't remember many situations where Fields wasn't on the floor with one of Anthony or Smith. Anthony is a complete moron of a player. I mean, a guy who just makes astoundingly bad decisions. But Smith is on a whole different level of stupid. And whenever either of them have the ball, the offense comes to a screeching halt.
OK, so now we're throwing Smith in there as well?

You're really reaching here. Fields has actually taken more shots this year than last year. His MPG is down by three mins because his shots have been terrible. His FG % dropped from .497 to .460, his 3-point FG % dropped from .393 % (40th in the league) to a abysmal .256 % (262nd in the NBA). His Free throw shooting dropped from a respectable 77 % to a pathetic 56 %.

If you watched the games, Anthony has set up Fuields with at least 3-5 high percentage shots a game -- not Davis or Lin or Bibby with the pass. Melo has been finding Fields open along the baseline all season.

Fields has blown lay ups and shot air balls at least twice a game. At least. Please tell me how that's Melo and JR Smith's fault? Fields started all but 4 games this season and played almost 30 mins a game on a deep rotation.


Quote:
If you call ball movement high maintenance, then sure. he's high maintenance. I guess every team to win an NBA championship in, let's say, the last 30 years is full of high maintenance players. Those teams all featured exceptional ball movement. LOL. Fields, the energy bench player in his second season after being drafted in the 2nd round (and a great pick, by the way), is the high maintenance player. What do you call Anthony then?
All Fields can do is dunk. At least this season. See the above stats for proof. His jump shot has been flat all season, so he resorts to driving and dunking attempts, leading to numerous turnovers or free throw attempts he doesnt make.

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The ONLY thing I said about Fields as a shooter was that he needs to improve his jump shot. I said Fields is a versatile role player. His usefulness, IMO, has very little to do with scoring. Rebounding, passing and his length on defense are what you're looking for from him. But whatever scoring contributions he made before the Anthony trade had more to do with pushing the ball in transition than him being open. He was getting most of his points on the break.
He's not a role player, though. he's a starter who plays 30 mins a game. He's a 2-guard who sucks at passing. He was 44th among 2-guards in Assist to Turnover ratio. Please.

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Refuses to acknowledge that? I said on this board before the season that the Knicks would probably finish 3rd or 4th in the East! The Knicks did worse this season than I thought they would. And, in fact, the Knicks could have easily finished 3rd or 4th in the East. The Knicks could have gotten to the 2nd round of the playoffs if not for Anthony throwing the first 3 months of the season away. Anthony basically spit in the face of every Knick fan this season. He totally wasted this season for the team. They still would have lost to Miami or a healthy Chicago, but they could have avoided having to play them in the first round if he had given even a modicum of effort while D'Antoni was here.
Thats why Knicks fans were chanting "MVP" during games in April??? Knicks fans are completely happy with how Melo finished the season. Over the course of a full season, the Knicks would have won 47 games.

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And, yes, dregs of the East. The East is pathetic, especially with Howard injured. All those wins you listed, the Indianas, the Philadelphias, the Atlantas, the Clippers...these are not great teams. The only great team on that list is Chicago, and the Knicks won one game against them when Rose had just returned from injury and played really poorly. Besides, none of those wins happen if Anthony doesn't provide the kind of defensive effort that, to this point, in his career, he's provided in only the rarest of instances. I don't know why you expect that now, all of a sudden, he's going to keep it up. He's never kept it going for any extended period of time before. He certainly didn't keep it going in this series against the Heat.
Those teams arent great teams. The problem was the under dantoni, they were losing those games. The Knicks werent winning on the road against winning teams under dantoni. That changed after he was fired.

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05-06-2012, 09:46 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
OK, so now we're throwing Smith in there as well?

You're really reaching here. Fields has actually taken more shots this year than last year. His MPG is down by three mins because his shots have been terrible. His FG % dropped from .497 to .460, his 3-point FG % dropped from .393 % (40th in the league) to a abysmal .256 % (262nd in the NBA). His Free throw shooting dropped from a respectable 77 % to a pathetic 56 %.

If you watched the games, Anthony has set up Fuields with at least 3-5 high percentage shots a game -- not Davis or Lin or Bibby with the pass. Melo has been finding Fields open along the baseline all season.

Fields has blown lay ups and shot air balls at least twice a game. At least. Please tell me how that's Melo and JR Smith's fault? Fields started all but 4 games this season and played almost 30 mins a game on a deep rotation.

All Fields can do is dunk. At least this season. See the above stats for proof. His jump shot has been flat all season, so he resorts to driving and dunking attempts, leading to numerous turnovers or free throw attempts he doesnt make.
First you said he was a stupid player. Now you're bringing up his shooting. What does missing open shots have to do with his intelligence as a player? You cite statistics in a vortex. You can't bring up those statistics and ignore all of the following facts: his performance dropped as soon as Anthony arrived, not just this year. He struggles when there's no rhythm in the game. His offensive contributions last year were primarily in the open court, or after a really quick series of passes. That's just not what the team does anymore. The Knicks, when they do move the ball, are slow, plodding and predictable most of the time. That's fine against crap teams that can't figure out that if you neutralize Steve Novak, the Knicks offense is basically a bunch of chuckers taking covered jump shots.

It's Anthony and J.R. Smith's fault that they routinely stop the entire offense, start doing crossover dribbles for 10 seconds, and then either take stupid jump shots or pass it only once they fail at developing a shot. It's great when they make the shots. See how that's working out against Miami. Fields isn't Novak. He's not a sharpshooter. They don't pass it to him when he's on the move, cutting tot he basket. They pass it to him when he's standing, watching them dribble between their legs. He's out of rhythm, and he's not good enough to create a shot for himself. Fields should be dunking in the open court, or after receiving the ball on a cut. If he has to take the ball to the hole, he's obviously not going to be very successful. But his teammates don't create those other opportunities for him.

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He's not a role player, though. he's a starter who plays 30 mins a game. He's a 2-guard who sucks at passing. He was 44th among 2-guards in Assist to Turnover ratio. Please.
He's a starter because the team had to trade away 5 guys to get Anthony! He's a starter because the Knicks have 55 million dollars in cap space tied up in 3 players, none of whom are legit superstars. He obviously wouldn't be a starter on a contending team. And guess what? If he wasn't starting, he'd probably be taking less shots.

His passing options declined severely once Anthony joined the team. Anthony is out of shape and is relatively weak at moving without the ball, especially when he's playing to get a coaching change. It's also a lot easier to generate assists, or pass the ball in general, when the team moves the ball and their bodies quickly and often. It means more people are open, and the defense is more often scrambling. The whole team stopped moving as soon as he got here, except for the Linsanity stretch.

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Thats why Knicks fans were chanting "MVP" during games in April??? Knicks fans are completely happy with how Melo finished the season. Over the course of a full season, the Knicks would have won 47 games.
Well, if Knicks fans were chanting it, then they must be right. I'm not at all surprised that they're chanting MVP for a guy who spent the first three months of the season basically telling the entire fanbase, "**** you, I care far more about myself than I do about the success of this team or the people who pay money to watch me play or wear my jersey." These are the same people that thought the Stephon Marbury trade was going to turn the Knicks around. Most of them were pretty stoked about the Knicks acquiring Steve Francis, too.

Believe it or not, there are more than a few Knick fans that understand what a disaster the Knicks brought upon themselves. I know quite a few of them personally. It's just not that hard to understand that there has never been a championship winning team that didn't feature great ball movement, consistent unselfishness, and committed defense. Not a single one of the player with an M.O. similar to Anthony's has ever won a championship. That's not a coincidence.

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Those teams arent great teams. The problem was the under dantoni, they were losing those games. The Knicks werent winning on the road against winning teams under dantoni. That changed after he was fired.
There's only so many ways that this can be put. Before D'Antoni got fired, Anthony stayed out of the paint completely, was giving zero effort defensively, and was doing everything he could to make sure D'Antoni's strategy could not be executed (this despite the fact that D'Antoni tried a plethora of things, from giving Anthony the ball in different places to having other players carry the ball). Within a game or two of Woodson taking over, Anthony's effort defensively was night and day. He started taking the ball to the hole at least sometimes. So either one of two things happened. Either Mike Woodson is one of the greatest sports coaches of all time, and he managed to teach Anthony all this stuff in a couple of days, less than a week at most, or Anthony was purposely not doing these things when D'Antoni was here. Since there are TWO previous Anthony coaches on record saying that Anthony, on more than one occasion, would not do what was asked of him on the court, I'm inclined to guess that the reason Anthony wasn't doing those things in the first half of the season is because he didn't want to do them.

The problem is that under D'Antoni, Anthony was playing like a player with an agenda that was more important to him than winning basketball games. Which makes sense, because he's already done the same thing before leaving Denver.

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05-06-2012, 09:58 PM
  #504
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NYR Sting, I always appreciate the thought you put in your posts, but I've got to ask one question.

Remember how you said that you changed allegiances with the Knicks by cheering for the Spurs in 98 based on the organization's lunacy, how did you stay put with the early 00's Ranger teams?

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05-06-2012, 10:13 PM
  #505
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One thing I just wanna point in case anyone ever wants to bring it up. Anthony's 41 points were nothing special. He took 30 shots, so he better be putting up 40 points. Not to mention when he missed 2/3 free-throws ar the end, almost costing us the game AND LAUGHING ABOUT IT

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05-06-2012, 10:15 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
NYR Sting, I always appreciate the thought you put in your posts, but I've got to ask one question.

Remember how you said that you changed allegiances with the Knicks by cheering for the Spurs in 98 based on the organization's lunacy, how did you stay put with the early 00's Ranger teams?
Like I said a couple of days ago, yes, I hated the moves the Knicks were making from a basketball standpoint (and that went all the way back to the initial Allan Houston signing...nice guy...good, not great player...way too much money and commitment). But the biggest reason I stopped being a Knicks fan was because they traded a heart and soul player in John Starks for, of all people, Latrell Sprewell. I don't like cheering for ********, (thus my dislike of Carmelo Anthony...well, that and the way he plays) and Latrell Sprewell is a ******* of epic proportions. I understood them trading Oakley for Camby, although I wasn't happy about that. But to trade Starks for a guy who was just the worst that sports had to offer made me sick. Plus, I was sure the team was going to stink long-term.

To be honest, I considered not being a Ranger fan. When they traded Graves, I was really pissed. I think if I hadn't stopped being a Knick fan, I might have stopped being a Ranger fan then, but I couldn't picture dropping both teams. I was tempted again when Leetch was traded, and tempted another time when they signed Gomez. Even a year later, when they signed Redden, I again felt the temptation. I could have easily became a Red Wings fan just as I had become a Spurs fan; I already liked both of those teams a lot and they were my NHL and NBA teams to root for in the West. I think the biggest difference is that while the guys the Rangers were bringing in sucked, they weren't really bad human beings (or at least not that I know of). Sprewell had been one of my favorite non-Knicks when I was a kid, and I was really disgusted by his actions. He was a great player, but I just can't stand him. And for them to trade away the embodiment of those great Knick teams for him...ugh.

One of the biggest things that kept me committed to the Rangers was the coming of Lundqvist. I was fortunate to learn a decent amount about him and watch some footage here and there after he was drafted, and I became a huge fan. I was positive that he was going to be a superstar, that he was going to save the team. I also had really high hopes for Jamie Lundmark, though, so I wasn't totally on target there.

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05-07-2012, 08:34 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
First you said he was a stupid player. Now you're bringing up his shooting. What does missing open shots have to do with his intelligence as a player? You cite statistics in a vortex. You can't bring up those statistics and ignore all of the following facts: his performance dropped as soon as Anthony arrived, not just this year. He struggles when there's no rhythm in the game. His offensive contributions last year were primarily in the open court, or after a really quick series of passes. That's just not what the team does anymore. The Knicks, when they do move the ball, are slow, plodding and predictable most of the time. That's fine against crap teams that can't figure out that if you neutralize Steve Novak, the Knicks offense is basically a bunch of chuckers taking covered jump shots.

It's Anthony and J.R. Smith's fault that they routinely stop the entire offense, start doing crossover dribbles for 10 seconds, and then either take stupid jump shots or pass it only once they fail at developing a shot. It's great when they make the shots. See how that's working out against Miami. Fields isn't Novak. He's not a sharpshooter. They don't pass it to him when he's on the move, cutting tot he basket. They pass it to him when he's standing, watching them dribble between their legs. He's out of rhythm, and he's not good enough to create a shot for himself. Fields should be dunking in the open court, or after receiving the ball on a cut. If he has to take the ball to the hole, he's obviously not going to be very successful. But his teammates don't create those other opportunities for him.



He's a starter because the team had to trade away 5 guys to get Anthony! He's a starter because the Knicks have 55 million dollars in cap space tied up in 3 players, none of whom are legit superstars. He obviously wouldn't be a starter on a contending team. And guess what? If he wasn't starting, he'd probably be taking less shots.

His passing options declined severely once Anthony joined the team. Anthony is out of shape and is relatively weak at moving without the ball, especially when he's playing to get a coaching change. It's also a lot easier to generate assists, or pass the ball in general, when the team moves the ball and their bodies quickly and often. It means more people are open, and the defense is more often scrambling. The whole team stopped moving as soon as he got here, except for the Linsanity stretch.



Well, if Knicks fans were chanting it, then they must be right. I'm not at all surprised that they're chanting MVP for a guy who spent the first three months of the season basically telling the entire fanbase, "**** you, I care far more about myself than I do about the success of this team or the people who pay money to watch me play or wear my jersey." These are the same people that thought the Stephon Marbury trade was going to turn the Knicks around. Most of them were pretty stoked about the Knicks acquiring Steve Francis, too.

Believe it or not, there are more than a few Knick fans that understand what a disaster the Knicks brought upon themselves. I know quite a few of them personally. It's just not that hard to understand that there has never been a championship winning team that didn't feature great ball movement, consistent unselfishness, and committed defense. Not a single one of the player with an M.O. similar to Anthony's has ever won a championship. That's not a coincidence.



There's only so many ways that this can be put. Before D'Antoni got fired, Anthony stayed out of the paint completely, was giving zero effort defensively, and was doing everything he could to make sure D'Antoni's strategy could not be executed (this despite the fact that D'Antoni tried a plethora of things, from giving Anthony the ball in different places to having other players carry the ball). Within a game or two of Woodson taking over, Anthony's effort defensively was night and day. He started taking the ball to the hole at least sometimes. So either one of two things happened. Either Mike Woodson is one of the greatest sports coaches of all time, and he managed to teach Anthony all this stuff in a couple of days, less than a week at most, or Anthony was purposely not doing these things when D'Antoni was here. Since there are TWO previous Anthony coaches on record saying that Anthony, on more than one occasion, would not do what was asked of him on the court, I'm inclined to guess that the reason Anthony wasn't doing those things in the first half of the season is because he didn't want to do them.

The problem is that under D'Antoni, Anthony was playing like a player with an agenda that was more important to him than winning basketball games. Which makes sense, because he's already done the same thing before leaving Denver.

None of what you wrote has anything to do with Fields' poor season. I find it hysterical that a simple comment about a guy's struggling season automatically evokes anti-Melo sentiment, and somehow Dantoni as well.

Just get over it already. The Knicks are better this year than last year. Melo had a huge role in them accomplishing that. Whether Melo dogged it for Dantoni or not, I really could care less. What I do care about is that he's not dogging it now.

Fields' games without Melo.

1/14 -- 1-for-7, 31 MINS
1/27 -- 4-for-12, 34 MINS
1/28 -- 0-for-2, 18 MINS
2/8 -- 6-for-11, 37 MINS
2/10 -- 1-for-7, 33 MINS
2/11 -- 8-for-10, 35 MINS
2/14 -- 3-for-9, 37 MINS
2/15 -- 6-for-8, 30 MINS
2/17 -- 1-for-8, 34 MINS
2/19 -- 6-for-12, 27 MINS

36-for-88, .375 PCT FG% without Melo dressed
200-for-425, .471 PCT FG% with Melo playing

There you have it -- Fields performed better with Melo in the lineup than without him.

The fact is that Woodson cut Fields minutes because he was struggling, where Dantoni kept playing him 30 mins a game.

Again, how is it Melo's fault that Fields has been struggling, when any Knick fan can tell you that he has been inconsistent from start to finish?

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05-07-2012, 01:05 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
None of what you wrote has anything to do with Fields' poor season. I find it hysterical that a simple comment about a guy's struggling season automatically evokes anti-Melo sentiment, and somehow Dantoni as well.

Just get over it already. The Knicks are better this year than last year. Melo had a huge role in them accomplishing that. Whether Melo dogged it for Dantoni or not, I really could care less. What I do care about is that he's not dogging it now.
First of all, you're being a hypocrite when you tell me to get over it. All you did was rag on D'Antoni. You still take pot shots at D'Antoni, despite the overwhelming evidence that points to D'Antoni being screwed over every step of the way. I don't understand how you can not care that your player purposely played like garbage for three months and cost your team a shot at having an extended playoff run. The Knicks should have been a 3rd-5th seed, and the biggest reason they weren't is because Anthony "dogged it" until D'Antoni left. Other than committing criminal acts, is there something worse that a professional athlete can do than "dog it," costing his team success?

Second of all, there is nothing to "get over." There is one very clear reason as to why Landry Fields' effectiveness dropped IN THE MIDDLE OF LAST SEASON: less ball movement and a slower pace, and it has little to do with his shooting. The pace slowed and the ball stopped moving as soon as Anthony got to the Knicks. Herego, Landry Fields struggles are a direct result of Anthony's presence. It makes no sense to rag on Fields without taking the circumstances around him into consideration. If you want to talk about Fields, you can't do so without bringing Anthony into the conversation.

Quote:
Fields' games without Melo.

1/14 -- 1-for-7, 31 MINS
1/27 -- 4-for-12, 34 MINS
1/28 -- 0-for-2, 18 MINS
2/8 -- 6-for-11, 37 MINS
2/10 -- 1-for-7, 33 MINS
2/11 -- 8-for-10, 35 MINS
2/14 -- 3-for-9, 37 MINS
2/15 -- 6-for-8, 30 MINS
2/17 -- 1-for-8, 34 MINS
2/19 -- 6-for-12, 27 MINS

36-for-88, .375 PCT FG% without Melo dressed
200-for-425, .471 PCT FG% with Melo playing

There you have it -- Fields performed better with Melo in the lineup than without him.
There you have it - you ignored every single point I made (which includes the point about Fields not being a good shooter) and once again tossed a stat that has very little relevance here. You can't judge the performance of a player like Fields by looking at his field goal shooting percentage. Landry Fields isn't a scorer. That's not why the Knicks drafted him. When he leaves the Knicks and goes on to be a successful role player elsewhere, his value will not be as a scorer. Landry Fields' value is as a rebounder and a guy who can help you push the tempo up court, and be a good perimeter defender who uses his length to swarm smaller guards and cut down on passing lanes.

And your whole criticism of him was to say he was a dumb player and a terrible decision maker. What does that even have to do with shooting? Especially for a guy who averages less than 8 shot attempts per game, and whose FG% dropped from .49 to .46, not an enormous dropoff.

Quote:
The fact is that Woodson cut Fields minutes because he was struggling, where Dantoni kept playing him 30 mins a game.

Again, how is it Melo's fault that Fields has been struggling, when any Knick fan can tell you that he has been inconsistent from start to finish?
You keep leaving out incredibly important chunks of information. Mike Woodson doesn't have an offensive system. He lets Anthony basically do whatever he wants offensively. D'Antoni had a system predicated on passing and running. Fields was a good fit for that system. Why would he take him out? Fields wasn't the reason the system wasn't working. Anthony was, because Anthony doesn't like to pass or run. When Woodson took over, the pace became even slower than it had been, so obviously Fields was not going to succeed.

Not to mention that D'Antoni didn't have Baron Davis and he only had JR Smith, another player who refuses to do anything but shoot the ball whenever he feels like it, for a short period of time. And he only had Lin for a short period of time, which is when Fields played his best ball of the season. No coincidence that he played his best when the ball moved and the tempo was higher.

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05-07-2012, 02:02 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
The Knicks are better this year than last year. Melo had a huge role in them accomplishing that. Whether Melo dogged it for Dantoni or not, I really could care less. What I do care about is that he's not dogging it now.
Wow...this just shows how much you know about what kind of player a team needs...Its actually sad that so many sports fans are so unintelligent...I'm a huge rangers and knicks fan all my life, its upsetting too see a player like melo on this team and yet fans like you defend him...one day you'll realize what we already see

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05-07-2012, 03:11 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Mkhizgilov View Post
Wow...this just shows how much you know about what kind of player a team needs...Its actually sad that so many sports fans are so unintelligent...I'm a huge rangers and knicks fan all my life, its upsetting too see a player like melo on this team and yet fans like you defend him...one day you'll realize what we already see
Ok, Phil Vecsey, please tell me what players were available to make the Knicks a playoff team again?

Please tell me how a guy who averaged almost 26 ppg after Dantoni was fired and led them, yes led them to an 18-6 record and their highest winning pct in 12 years upsets you?

Please name me another small forward who averages 24/7/4 that was available?

Please. Don't give me your goody goody crap about being a fan when your team is garbage for a decade you do whatever you can to fix it.

W.Chandler was a free agent. Felton has been a pure disaster this season. Mozgov is not Tyson Chandler. Gallo is very good but always injured.

That trade was a steal for the Knicks. All the pissers and moaners were MIA on this board when Melo carried the team to the playoffs without Lin, without Stat and without the genius Dantoni.

Look at all the big wins the Knicks had againt Milwaukee, Chicago, Atlanta late in the season. Why did they win those games?

Sure. Let's totally overlook the fact that Melo had no camp, played 5 games a week and was injured.

Isn't that the excuse train Marc Staal got for months?

Seriously, if you guys hate Melo, then you might as well hate the Knicks because he's not leaving.

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05-07-2012, 03:32 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
First of all, you're being a hypocrite when you tell me to get over it. All you did was rag on D'Antoni. You still take pot shots at D'Antoni, despite the overwhelming evidence that points to D'Antoni being screwed over every step of the way. I don't understand how you can not care that your player purposely played like garbage for three months and cost your team a shot at having an extended playoff run. The Knicks should have been a 3rd-5th seed, and the biggest reason they weren't is because Anthony "dogged it" until D'Antoni left. Other than committing criminal acts, is there something worse that a professional athlete can do than "dog it," costing his team success?

Second of all, there is nothing to "get over." There is one very clear reason as to why Landry Fields' effectiveness dropped IN THE MIDDLE OF LAST SEASON: less ball movement and a slower pace, and it has little to do with his shooting. The pace slowed and the ball stopped moving as soon as Anthony got to the Knicks. Herego, Landry Fields struggles are a direct result of Anthony's presence. It makes no sense to rag on Fields without taking the circumstances around him into consideration. If you want to talk about Fields, you can't do so without bringing Anthony into the conversation.

There you have it - you ignored every single point I made (which includes the point about Fields not being a good shooter) and once again tossed a stat that has very little relevance here. You can't judge the performance of a player like Fields by looking at his field goal shooting percentage. Landry Fields isn't a scorer. That's not why the Knicks drafted him. When he leaves the Knicks and goes on to be a successful role player elsewhere, his value will not be as a scorer. Landry Fields' value is as a rebounder and a guy who can help you push the tempo up court, and be a good perimeter defender who uses his length to swarm smaller guards and cut down on passing lanes.

And your whole criticism of him was to say he was a dumb player and a terrible decision maker. What does that even have to do with shooting? Especially for a guy who averages less than 8 shot attempts per game, and whose FG% dropped from .49 to .46, not an enormous dropoff.

You keep leaving out incredibly important chunks of information. Mike Woodson doesn't have an offensive system. He lets Anthony basically do whatever he wants offensively. D'Antoni had a system predicated on passing and running. Fields was a good fit for that system. Why would he take him out? Fields wasn't the reason the system wasn't working. Anthony was, because Anthony doesn't like to pass or run. When Woodson took over, the pace became even slower than it had been, so obviously Fields was not going to succeed.

Not to mention that D'Antoni didn't have Baron Davis and he only had JR Smith, another player who refuses to do anything but shoot the ball whenever he feels like it, for a short period of time. And he only had Lin for a short period of time, which is when Fields played his best ball of the season. No coincidence that he played his best when the ball moved and the tempo was higher.
Sorry, but I disagree that poor shot selection isn't a byproduct of his own doing. It amazes me that you truly think Anthony is to blame for it all, yet you gave no explaination as to why Fields played worse without Anthony even dressed.

No, let's change our offense to run and gun so that Landry can dunk more and completely revert to the glory days of the Knicks' below mediocrity under Dantoni.

Fields can rebound and defend. He can't pass or shoot. The Knicks have no business appeasing a guy who shoots foul shots like Chris Dudley and jump shots like Chris Dudley.

This team is built around Melo and defense. Fields needs to learn how to make open shots and attack the basket in a half court set because the Knicks aren't changing anything for him.

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06-22-2012, 02:04 PM
  #512
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Not to distract from the (lack of) activity around the draft, but this is GINORMOUS news for the Knicks:

Quote:
Huge news for #Knicks: Arbitrator ruled in favor of the players in Bird Rights hearing. Jeremy Lin and Steve Novak retain Early Birds. #fb
-Hahn on twitter.

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06-22-2012, 02:20 PM
  #513
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Cool.

I want, Nash and Odom/Allen.

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06-22-2012, 02:22 PM
  #514
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Can someone explain bird rights to me?

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06-22-2012, 02:33 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
Can someone explain bird rights to me?
What are 'Bird Rights'?
"A free agent from your own team can be resigned to a contract even if your team goes over the cap in doing so. Technically, it’s called a “Qualifying Veteran Free Agent Exception”."

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06-22-2012, 02:34 PM
  #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
Can someone explain bird rights to me?
It lets a team resign a player and not have the contract effect the salary cap. Means we can resign Lin and Novak without using one of our exceptions, which means we're in the market for Nash, Allen, Odom, etc.

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