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PK Subban Vs Erik Johnson

View Poll Results: EJ or PK
EJ 116 45.31%
PK 140 54.69%
Voters: 256. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-07-2012, 08:00 AM
  #26
Ivan13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theboss View Post
Subban would lose a poll to Lebda, the hate is really strong.
Can we please stop using the hate argument when it comes to PK?

I don't hate PK, infact I like him much more than EJ, but I would rather have EJ on my team.

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05-07-2012, 08:14 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by theboss View Post
Subban would lose a poll to Lebda, the hate is really strong.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them a "hater" or mean they they hate your team. That being said, Subban.

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05-07-2012, 08:32 AM
  #28
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Subban's better and younger.

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05-07-2012, 08:57 AM
  #29
tony d
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Erik Johnson easily, Subban's massively over-rated

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05-07-2012, 09:07 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Erik Johnson easily, Subban's massively over-rated
Kind of like how you talk about every Sens player eh? Can almost guarantee you have never watched Johnson or subban play to have a fair and unbiased opinion. I'll wait for the usual " the avs are actually my 2nd favorite team or someone I know watches them so I actually watch them alot" Spare me.

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05-07-2012, 10:38 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
I've asked Colorado fans for something to post in his favor over and over, but they never do. All i get is, Sacco is dumb, anybody who watches knows Johnson has godlike ability despite his results and usage, and i know nothing about the Avalanche as i foolishly post facts to prove my points. Anybody who knows anything wouldn't use facts, and would state their apparently irrefutable opinion that Johnson is a future Norris winner. Go Avs Go!
Until you follow through on the last post where you said you'd do a detailed statistical breakdown then you hold no weight in these debates in my opinion. Thus far you've done nothing but discuss TOI totals.

It is not our job to prove you wrong, it is your job to prove yourself right.

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Old
05-07-2012, 11:20 AM
  #32
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Subban is probably better offensively, EJ is a way more complete player. Are those people that say Johnson is nothing better than a #2 or 3 even awake when Colorado plays?

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05-07-2012, 11:24 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
Subban is probably better offensively, EJ is a way more complete player. Are those people that say Johnson is nothing better than a #2 or 3 even awake when Colorado plays?
Highly doubtfull.

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Old
05-07-2012, 11:26 AM
  #34
Trafalgar Law
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Subban AINEC

Johnson just seems to get worse every year, especially offensively.

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05-07-2012, 11:29 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
Subban AINEC

Johnson just seems to get worse every year, especially offensively.
You can have your opinion but saying AINEC is just stupid.

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Old
05-07-2012, 11:40 AM
  #36
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Subban didn't have a great offensive year but he improved his defensive game big time and became a much better all around player. i'll keep him

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05-07-2012, 12:50 PM
  #37
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Pernell Karl Subban; Erik Johnson has plateaued at best. Last year he was on his way to become a #1, EJ now has shown that his subpar hockey sense is his major impediment into being more than just a good #2.

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05-07-2012, 01:26 PM
  #38
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EJ has become overrated by all the Avs fans saying he's underrated.
He's really not that good.

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05-07-2012, 01:42 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
You can have your opinion but saying AINEC is just stupid.
How so? Subban has a wicked shot, hits like a truck, and is solid defensively. Erik Johnson supposedly had these qualities when he was drafted, but has done nothing to show that so far.

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05-07-2012, 01:54 PM
  #40
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Can't believe people choose EJ over Subban.

Johnson isn't superior defensively or offensively..

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Old
05-07-2012, 02:16 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Slick Eller View Post
Can't believe people choose EJ over Subban.

Johnson isn't superior defensively or offensively..
That just shows you watched 0 Colorado game this season. People that live in the East that's in bed before the Avs even play shouldn't comment on a player they haven't even seen play this whole season. You should have to include how much you've actually watched each player before you post. Johnson would put up better numbers if an idiot wasn't behind the bench, like maybe put Johnson on the left side for once so he can actually set up for a 1 timer.

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05-07-2012, 02:17 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endersoldier View Post
Within the context of determining if he's a No. 1 defender in the making, I find Johnson to be underwhelming. Does he do the little things right? To an extent I agree. But I take Subban for the future. I'm not going to bother to use stats, I could care less about the fact that Subban was a plus-9 and Johnson was a minus player. I'm judging this only on what I see.

Subban did not have a good first half this season, but he was nothing short terrific in the second half. The main difference between the two halves was how he simplified his game and stopped forcing plays that weren't there, non-plays that turned against him. When he keeps his game simple, he's rock solid at both ends of the ice, far more than he gets credit for. If he learns to do this over a full season, then I think he can be a true No. 1, maybe not a Pietrangelo or a Doughty but just a cut under that, and considering he's only a sophomore I think he has a good shot of doing so soon.

Long story short, I find Subban tends to have more impact in more games than Johnson. Whenever I look at Johnson, I remember back to when I read Future Greats and Heartbreaks when the Blue Jackets scouting staff were listing the pros and cons of the top players of the 2006 draft. They listed his strengths, which were numerous, but the one con they had for him was "lack of killer instinct." I think they were right on the money: the physical tools are there, the awareness is good, but he lacks the "it" factor, which is fine if you want him to be a no. 2 or 3, but perhaps not quite good enough to be a no. 1, at least not for me.
I think you have a good point here.

I mean, the physical ability is there. I remember the first time I saw him live I wasn't sure whether he should be playing defense for the Blues or Defensive End for the Rams.

I do think that there is some missing from Erik Johnsons game, and has been for quite a while. Sometimes it's hard to get a "feel" for whats wrong with a player, especially one that is immensely talented.

For a while, I thought he simply struggled with the expectations that were placed upon him. I remember in St. Louis he had this thing where he always seemed to want to fire away on the PP, no matter how many defenders were in the way. At other times he seemed to be passing to nobody in particular, but that has corrected itself.

And yet there is still something missing. I'm starting to agree it's "killer instinct".

That isn't to say that Johnson doesn't compete and doesn't work hard, because that has never, and will never be a problem with him. I think, at heart Johnson is a tiny bit soft. Not soft in the way that he won't play hard, or even hurt. Soft in the way that he doesn't want to play with the demeanor you have to have as defenseman with his skillset. This may be a personality thing with him, but the more you watch hi the more you see things about his game that he just doesn't like to do.

For example, he doesn't like to challenge the net-front or protect the front of the net.

You look at say, Chris Pronger, a player that Johnson was compared to in the past, and I think has a similar physical skillset as....

Dear lord, I'd want to be read my last rites before I tried to net-front Pronger.

EJ will let you camp out all night long.

Theres a reason he ended the season with 26 penalty minutes. He needs to be tougher to play against, because the skill is obviously there.

I still think Erik Johnson will be a top pairing defender for the next decade, and I suspect he will play in the Olympics a good four times, but I don't think he will ever become the elite, Norris trophy level player I remember people hyping him up as.


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Old
05-07-2012, 02:24 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
That just shows you watched 0 Colorado game this season. People that live in the East that's in bed before the Avs even play shouldn't comment on a player they haven't even seen play this whole season. You should have to include how much you've actually watched each player before you post. Johnson would put up better numbers if an idiot wasn't behind the bench, like maybe put Johnson on the left side for once so he can actually set up for a 1 timer.
And games start a little bit to early out there in the West for people like you to share an opinion. I highly doubt your able to catch 4PM start times. See? Works both ways.

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05-07-2012, 02:25 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
Pernell Karl Subban; Erik Johnson has plateaued at best. Last year he was on his way to become a #1, EJ now has shown that his subpar hockey sense is his major impediment into being more than just a good #2.
And yet... he was better this season than last.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4life74 View Post
And games start a little bit to early out there in the West for people like you to share an opinion. I highly doubt your able to catch 4PM start times. See? Works both ways.
I live on the East coast, whenever I can't catch an Avs game (if it starts around 10pm and I have to wake up early) I'll often watch various Eastern teams. While I am very impressed by Subban's physical abilities, skating and overall offensive poise (ignoring the rough patches he will iron out with experience) he does not stack up defensively against EJ based on what I watched this season. The people who say it's not close in either direction are blatant homers, but the fact of the matter is a defender's job is foremost to play defense and since their offense isn't dramatically different, it makes sense to pick the guy who can anchor your team defensively. Especially when he has clearcut ability to be a steady 40-50 point defender offensively with the strong defensive game.

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Old
05-07-2012, 02:25 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Habs4life74 View Post
And games start a little bit to early out there in the West for people like you to share an opinion. I highly doubt your able to catch 4PM start times. See? Works both ways.
5pm, I also live in Canada where HNIC shows Habs game almost every weekend, as oppose to where you won't get to watch any Avs game unless you have NHL Centre ice, which I doubt you'd tune into an Avs game even if you had it.

I tune into games of every team in the league because I'm a pretty hardcore fantasy hockey player. Subban is average defensively and his 36 points isn't impressive by any means.

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05-07-2012, 02:29 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
5pm, I also live in Canada where HNIC shows Habs game almost every weekend, as oppose to where you won't get to watch any Avs game unless you have NHL Centre ice, which I doubt you'd tune into an Avs game even if you had it.
Unless you live in MTL or QC,
which you dont, then you do not get the Habs on HNIC unless the leafs aren't playing that night. LOL thanks for proving you don't watch the Habs.

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Old
05-07-2012, 02:32 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Habs4life74 View Post
Unless you live in MTL or QC,
which you dont, then you do not get the Habs on HNIC unless the leafs aren't playing that night. LOL thanks for proving you don't watch the Habs.
You know you get more than 1 channel from CBC on satellite right?

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05-07-2012, 02:37 PM
  #48
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I love how Colorado fans are all going "Erik Johnson had a better year than Subban" when in fact it's the other way around. Especially in the second half of the season.

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05-07-2012, 02:37 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
You know you get more than 1 channel from CBC on satellite right?
Yeah actually I have satellite thanks very much and the other Canadian teams are blanked out which is why I have Center Ice. Thanks for being a scout though and watching all 82 habs games to share your opinion. Notice how I didn't voice mine on EJ because I've only seen him minimal times? That's what smart people do in order not to look stupid, but you've already done that above judging by your synopsis of Subban.

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05-07-2012, 02:44 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Habs4life74 View Post
Yeah actually I have satellite thanks very much and the other Canadian teams are blanked out which is why I have Center Ice. Thanks for being a scout though and watching all 82 habs games to share your opinion. Notice how I didn't voice mine on EJ because I've only seen him minimal times? That's what smart people do in order not to look stupid, but you've already done that above judging by your synopsis of Subban.
They don't black games out on CBC, they only do that for Sportsnet. Besides games would still be blacked out if you had Centre Ice if you can watch them on other networks. Believe it or not Montreal is my 4th most watched team behind the Flames, Oils and Avs

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