HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Poll: What do you think happens with Jordan Staal?

View Poll Results: What do you think happens with Jordan?
Staal signs by August 1, 2012. 19 14.29%
Staal signs before training camp. 24 18.05%
Staal signs during the preseason. 5 3.76%
Staal signs during the season. 19 14.29%
Staal signs during the offseason in 2013. 4 3.01%
Staal is traded. 50 37.59%
Staal becomes a UFA and signs elsewhere. 12 9.02%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-07-2012, 07:30 PM
  #26
Ziggyjoe21
Registered User
 
Ziggyjoe21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pitt
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,301
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Ziggyjoe21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
He's a UFA and he is scheduled to hit the open market next off season.
UFA at 25 years old? That's stupid. They should change that in the new CBA.

Anywho, I see no reason why Shero won't re-sign Staal. It's not like he deserves some massive pay raise anyway.

Ziggyjoe21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 07:38 PM
  #27
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,614
vCash: 500
Something tells me he won't be traded this summer on account of his great play down the stretch and that fact that he is Shero's pick. Shero will try hard to re-sign him but might not be able to this summer because of all the CBA crap. In which case I can easily see him sticking around, not getting traded at the deadline because we'll be in the race... and possibly walking. If we trade him next summer it will be a rights for early draft pick kind of deal IMO and nothing more.

That said there is a reasonable chance he gets signed or traded this summer (I'd say about equal, maybe 30% each). Tough call but I think the most likely scenario is nothing happens this summer because of all the uncertainty around the league... and we'll end up saying goodbye next spring or summer (one way or the other).

Darth Vitale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 07:42 PM
  #28
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,859
vCash: 500
Signing him is very limited risk, as if he does what he just did last season again, him being signed makes him more valuable than gold.

JTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 07:43 PM
  #29
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
UFA at 25 years old? That's stupid. They should change that in the new CBA.

Anywho, I see no reason why Shero won't re-sign Staal. It's not like he deserves some massive pay raise anyway.
Well he's had the time accrued in the league. The normal UFA age is 28 or something. If a guy can accrue 7 years, or whatever it is, he deserves to have the opportunity to test the market.

JTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 07:45 PM
  #30
mpp9
Registered User
 
mpp9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 18,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
UFA at 25 years old? That's stupid. They should change that in the new CBA.

Anywho, I see no reason why Shero won't re-sign Staal. It's not like he deserves some massive pay raise anyway.
He'll have played 7 seasons in the league next summer. And he is absolutely due a big raise.

mpp9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 07:49 PM
  #31
Pancakes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,165
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Something tells me he won't be traded this summer on account of his great play down the stretch and that fact that he is Shero's pick. Shero will try hard to re-sign him but might not be able to this summer because of all the CBA crap. In which case I can easily see him sticking around, not getting traded at the deadline because we'll be in the race... and possibly walking. If we trade him next summer it will be a rights for early draft pick kind of deal IMO and nothing more.

That said there is a reasonable chance he gets signed or traded this summer (I'd say about equal, maybe 30% each). Tough call but I think the most likely scenario is nothing happens this summer because of all the uncertainty around the league... and we'll end up saying goodbye next spring or summer (one way or the other).
That's why Shero better think long and hard about trading Staal this off season. If we keep him and he walks for nothing the only way Shero doesn't look terrible is if the Pens win the cup next year.

Basically Shero better be damned sure he can sign Staal if he's going to hold onto him this year. If he's at all uncertain, he seriously needs to at least see what's out there in regards to the trade market because Staal is way too valuable an asset to lose for nothing.

It already hurt bad enough losing Hossa and the only reason that wasn't more painful is the pieces we gave up turned out to be garbage. Imagine if Esposito had panned out. How would we be feeling now?

Pancakes is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 07:57 PM
  #32
Ugene Malkin
Bück Dich Baby!
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Germany
Posts: 21,678
vCash: 500
You make one final push for a cup and see where Staal feels he is on July 1st 2013.

Not much more you can do.

They win a cup he deserves to go and try to be a main cog somewhere. I still feel his best chances are here. Invest in a cheap stable 3rd line center capable of taking over Staal duties on the PK and give him a top 6 offensive role. He deserves it if he stays.

Ugene Malkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 08:09 PM
  #33
Dupree13
Registered User
 
Dupree13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 4,102
vCash: 500
I agree with what Yohe said the other day, that of all the possible scenarios, Staal signing an extension with the Pens this summer is actually the least likely. I think it just makes way too much sense for him to test the UFA waters and keep his options open, both money-wise and hockey-wise. I think he'd have to get an offer that totally blows him away to forego the chance at hitting UFA, and I don't think the Pens can or even should make him such an offer.

I say he gets traded.

Dupree13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 08:18 PM
  #34
Ogelthorpe
Who do you play for?
 
Ogelthorpe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 1,514
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisUlrich View Post
I just don't see Staal going elsewhere. I think Shero is too smart to let a player this good go (who we'll get a lot cheaper than any equally talented UFA) when there's cap dollars being spent on other players who we could replace.
I see the biggest problem to overcome, and the reason they decide to trade Staal, is that they have 3 centers who don't want to play wing, and all want to be top 6 forwards. This means 1 will be gone because they won't sign to be a 3rd liner, so management see this and trades someone.
Staal is a great player who is still improving, but Malkin is a superstar. With Sid's health still being a question, there is no way they deal away Malkin.
Because Staal wants a bigger role, he has to get it elswhere, and the Pens don't let that happen with nothing in return. Unfortunately I think he is traded.

Ogelthorpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 08:31 PM
  #35
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 29,800
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I think we'll certainly try and sign him up to 6 mil or so. if Geno and Letang's extensions and the pace at which our D prospects take on NHL roles force him to deal Staal down the road, so be it.

He'll put up a 60+ pt season next year and if we can some term on his contract, his value will only go up. I'd say it's possible Shero can sell him on staying for the time being. Signing a short term extension so our hands aren't tied at season's end.
I think Shero will try to sign Staal for 6M and, if push comes to shove, go to about 6.5M and deal with the cap issues 12 months later.

That said, I also think he's going to LISTEN to offers for Staal. Doesn't mean he'll take one. Doesn't mean he'll sell cheap . . . quite the contrary. But, I think he listens . . .

You know, I wrote this yesterday: Part of me wonders if the prospective loss of Staal would seem a lot less daunting if Bylsma used Sid and Geno like, say, Daryl Sutter uses Richards and Kopitar (as elite two way hockey players in all situations rather than, for all intents and purposes, offensive specialists . . . obviously, uber talented ones).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
I see the biggest problem to overcome, and the reason they decide to trade Staal, is that they have 3 centers who don't want to play wing, and all want to be top 6 forwards. This means 1 will be gone because they won't sign to be a 3rd liner, so management see this and trades someone.
Staal is a great player who is still improving, but Malkin is a superstar. With Sid's health still being a question, there is no way they deal away Malkin.
Because Staal wants a bigger role, he has to get it elswhere, and the Pens don't let that happen with nothing in return. Unfortunately I think he is traded.
Not sure if he is traded this summer, but I think you've pretty much nailed the problem. What's really a shame in all of this is that Bylsma could have tried Staal and Geno together where both worked out a hybrid C/W situation. It might have been odd, but those two like each other and they were so good together as rookies that it reminds me that natural chemistry can overcome a lot. But, that ship has sailed. For all of the roster juggling, for all of the line combinations after Sid returned, the one I never saw for more than maybe a total of a half dozen shifts in like 25-30 games was Geno and Staal together. Not a period together. Not a game together. When Sid came back, I always thought that one of the experiments would/should have been putting Sid with Kunitz and Dupuis and then Geno, Staal, and Neal together. And, yet, that was the one experiment NEVER tried, not even once in a game that was out of hand either way.

KIRK is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 08:31 PM
  #36
Ragamuffin Gunner
Lost in The Flood
 
Ragamuffin Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 16,302
vCash: 500
The thing is that for Staal to re-sign he has to agree to both a discount and playing an non-ideal role.

I just don't see that happening.

Ragamuffin Gunner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 08:36 PM
  #37
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 29,800
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Signing him is very limited risk, as if he does what he just did last season again, him being signed makes him more valuable than gold.
Wouldn't you think that some form of NMC would be a condition of signing? Just can't see Staal signing and then giving Shero a window to move him without his consent on the destination.

KIRK is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 08:41 PM
  #38
Dupree13
Registered User
 
Dupree13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 4,102
vCash: 500
Yeah, the whole "sign and flip" angle is pretty unlikely IMO.

Dupree13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 08:41 PM
  #39
Jonjmc
Registered User
 
Jonjmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 1,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skk82 View Post
Staal could seek a no-trade or no-movement clause though. And given what's happened league wide to guys like Carter and Richards, he'd be foolish not to get a NMC so that it's not HIM that gets dumped off to Columbus or some other wasteland in a few years when there's a serious cap crunch in Pittsburgh.

Not that Shero would do trade his prized pupil....but hey, if I'm repping Staal, no way he's signing unless there's some assurances written in the contract.
A NTC/NMC can't go into effect until next season, that's exactly what happened with Carter and Richards, they were traded before that kicked in.

The Pens simply can't afford Staal. You can't pay a player 6+mm and not have him consistently play in the top 6. The Pens can't afford that period, unless they are willing to sacrifice Crosby, Malkin or Letang. While I see that everyone has been happily penciling in their favorite UFA's into capgeek, the cap isn't going to be 68mm. Well, actually it will from July 1- Sept 15, but certainly not after that. Shero already knows this, that is why he mentioned still liking the 3C approach but not sure if they will be able to do that.

The framework of the new CBA has already been set by the NFL and NBA... the players will get ~50%, not the 57% they now get. My guess will be 60-62mm MAX, and I wouldn't be at all shocked if next years cap is under 60mm.

The players biggest complaint is escrow, and the players paying back salary to the league is caused by the cap continuing to go up every year and more and more teams spending to or close to, the cap. A new CBA will give both sides a chance to reign that in.

And every GM is aware of the next CBA cap situation, so dumping any salaries without taking salary back will be a difficult thing to do.

There will obviously be more to all this with the new CBA.... amnesty, buyouts, and the such, but I don't think we will see another salary rollback or eliminating the guaranteed contracts.

Jonjmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 08:49 PM
  #40
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 29,800
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjmc View Post
A NTC/NMC can't go into effect until next season, that's exactly what happened with Carter and Richards, they were traded before that kicked in.

The Pens simply can't afford Staal. You can't pay a player 6+mm and not have him consistently play in the top 6. The Pens can't afford that period, unless they are willing to sacrifice Crosby, Malkin or Letang. While I see that everyone has been happily penciling in their favorite UFA's into capgeek, the cap isn't going to be 68mm. Well, actually it will from July 1- Sept 15, but certainly not after that. Shero already knows this, that is why he mentioned still liking the 3C approach but not sure if they will be able to do that.

The framework of the new CBA has already been set by the NFL and NBA... the players will get ~50%, not the 57% they now get. My guess will be 60-62mm MAX, and I wouldn't be at all shocked if next years cap is under 60mm.

The players biggest complaint is escrow, and the players paying back salary to the league is caused by the cap continuing to go up every year and more and more teams spending to or close to, the cap. A new CBA will give both sides a chance to reign that in.

And every GM is aware of the next CBA cap situation, so dumping any salaries without taking salary back will be a difficult thing to do.

There will obviously be more to all this with the new CBA.... amnesty, buyouts, and the such, but I don't think we will see another salary rollback or eliminating the guaranteed contracts.
If the cap is 62M, then forget it. There's no way to make that work in two years. Even if Sid and Geno take no raises, even if Staal and Letang both signed for 6M, you'd be talking about having 39.4M invested in Sid, Geno, Staal, Neal, Letang, and Fleury. Say you left 600K in cap space going into a season, then your best case scenario would be 22M to sign 17 players. Even if your 10th-13th forwards, 7th-8th defensemen, and backup goalie made a combined 4M, you'd be left with 18M to sign four top nine forwards and five starting defensemen. It's just way too tough. Doable, sure, but probably counterproductive. IMO, that's why Shero listens (he won't sell cheap, no matter what, but he'll listen), because the numbers just don't work unless the cap hits the 67M+ range or the cap max is 60M but you get 1 player who doesn't count against the cap . . . it almost assuredly won't work out that well.

KIRK is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 09:44 PM
  #41
Jonjmc
Registered User
 
Jonjmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 1,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
If the cap is 62M, then forget it. There's no way to make that work in two years. Even if Sid and Geno take no raises, even if Staal and Letang both signed for 6M, you'd be talking about having 39.4M invested in Sid, Geno, Staal, Neal, Letang, and Fleury. Say you left 600K in cap space going into a season, then your best case scenario would be 22M to sign 17 players. Even if your 10th-13th forwards, 7th-8th defensemen, and backup goalie made a combined 4M, you'd be left with 18M to sign four top nine forwards and five starting defensemen. It's just way too tough. Doable, sure, but probably counterproductive. IMO, that's why Shero listens (he won't sell cheap, no matter what, but he'll listen), because the numbers just don't work unless the cap hits the 67M+ range or the cap max is 60M but you get 1 player who doesn't count against the cap . . . it almost assuredly won't work out that well.
That's pretty much how I see it, although a player not counting against the cap would be counter productive to the players. They are still getting a fixed percentage of the revenue and a player not counting against the cap would still count toward that percentage (as a player like Redden still counts toward the percentage even though he is playing in the AHL). In short, I don't see that happening.

Jonjmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 10:11 PM
  #42
Jag68Sid87
Nothing Else Maattas
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 28,600
vCash: 500
Why did we keep stockpiling defensemen all these years? So that we can let one of our best forwards leave? So that we can trade one of our best forwards because we need more defense?

We have depth on defense. We have expensive defensemen whose money could go towards re-signing both Crosby and Staal.

If Shero uses logic, re-signing Staal should be a no-brainer. He has to think he has built this thing the right way. But the wheels come off if he can't keep the forward foundation intact.

It's funny, we JUST added that fourth offensive wheel in James Neal, and now we're already pondering a move to get back down to three. If ANYTHING, we could still use a fifth wheel.

Anything other than re-signing Staal and shipping out the expensive defensemen makes no sense to me.

Jag68Sid87 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 10:17 PM
  #43
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 15,246
vCash: 500
I have no clue what will happen, but I know paying Staal 6m a season to be anything but a
#2 center is a bad decision.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2012, 10:35 PM
  #44
Dupree13
Registered User
 
Dupree13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 4,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Why did we keep stockpiling defensemen all these years? So that we can let one of our best forwards leave? So that we can trade one of our best forwards because we need more defense?

We have depth on defense. We have expensive defensemen whose money could go towards re-signing both Crosby and Staal.

If Shero uses logic, re-signing Staal should be a no-brainer. He has to think he has built this thing the right way. But the wheels come off if he can't keep the forward foundation intact.

It's funny, we JUST added that fourth offensive wheel in James Neal, and now we're already pondering a move to get back down to three. If ANYTHING, we could still use a fifth wheel.

Anything other than re-signing Staal and shipping out the expensive defensemen makes no sense to me.
It's not necessarily about fitting Staal under the cap. Even if they could figure out a way to do it. It's about not losing Staal for nothing if he is in fact determined to explore his options.

Dupree13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2012, 12:33 PM
  #45
jmelm
HFBoards Sponsor
 
jmelm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,606
vCash: 500
I wouldn't be surprised if Staal's new contract gets announced July 1st.


If he really wants to plat here, and Shero can promise him he'll do his best to give Staal more responsibility & offensive opportunity, there is a term & salary they can arrive at that is fair and will work with any collective bargaining agreement.

Similarly, I wouldn't be surprised if the contract is announced the day after the CBA is complete, in case they want that done first, so Staal doesn't get hit with a potential salary roll-back.

In either case, Shero will get a very clear understanding from Staal before even the draft, as to what his preferences would be in the event of term & salary of re-signing, or destinations he would be interested in moving to.

jmelm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2012, 12:41 PM
  #46
Jedi Pengu*
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
He'll have played 7 seasons in the league next summer. And he is absolutely due a big raise.
You do realize he already makes 4 million per season right. He's not due a big raise. He should make less than James Neal or around that number anyhow. And NO more than that, if he's greedy than see ya bud. 5.5 to 5.75 per season, he is not a player worth over 6 million. If he shows he can get to 80-90 pts a season on the average his next contract could be 6-7+ million.

Jedi Pengu* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2012, 02:13 PM
  #47
MrBurgundy
Time to move forward
 
MrBurgundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: GlassCase of Emotion
Country: United States
Posts: 17,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I have no clue what will happen, but I know paying Staal 6m a season to be anything but a
#2 center is a bad decision.
Exactly my opinion as well.

MrBurgundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2012, 02:15 PM
  #48
mpp9
Registered User
 
mpp9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 18,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Canada View Post
You do realize he already makes 4 million per season right. He's not due a big raise. He should make less than James Neal or around that number anyhow. And NO more than that, if he's greedy than see ya bud. 5.5 to 5.75 per season, he is not a player worth over 6 million. If he shows he can get to 80-90 pts a season on the average his next contract could be 6-7+ million.
He's going to get close to 6 mil from us if he stays. Closer to 7 mil on the open market. I didn't realize a 50%+ raise isn't significant.

mpp9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2012, 04:27 PM
  #49
Sidgeni Malkby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,062
vCash: 500
I know Staalkin was a hot topic last year....
Any chance of a Staal playing on Crosby's wing?


Last edited by Sidgeni Malkby: 05-09-2012 at 01:57 PM.
Sidgeni Malkby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2012, 06:11 PM
  #50
Illinest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Harrisburg
Country: United States
Posts: 1,134
vCash: 500
I dont see any way to keep staal unless martin at a minimum is traded for players that also provide cap relief. (e.g. two forwards on elcs)
That would also partially address the concerns of the centers who all want talented wings.

But i think keeping staal might also take a willingness on shero's part to cut costs at goaltender as well.

Martin and fleury out - about ten million in savings.
Guys on elc or cheap contract coming back - maybe 5 million.
Plenty enough to keep staal, but can shero find takers?

Illinest is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:40 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.