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General Stars Talk IV: The Prequel

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04-25-2012, 10:06 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
When they traded for him, they had no way of knowing if he would be receptive to a whole new training program or if he would stick with it.
Yeah, they really got lucky that he made the decision to be a better professional. I'm sure their banking on him making that choice had no bearing on the decision to acquire him, they just got lucky.

Bringing luck into this type of conversation is pointless. We may as well have an open debat about the existence or lack thereof of a god.

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04-26-2012, 08:32 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Yeah, they really got lucky that he made the decision to be a better professional. I'm sure their banking on him making that choice had no bearing on the decision to acquire him, they just got lucky.

Bringing luck into this type of conversation is pointless. We may as well have an open debat about the existence or lack thereof of a god.
Which is funny since you're describing how they essentially had to put faith in Kari that he would change his ways. Does that make Kari a god?

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04-26-2012, 11:19 AM
  #328
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This conversation is stupid.

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04-26-2012, 11:34 AM
  #329
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Article about the business side of the Dallas Stars and how they are trying to build better relationships with sponsors using multimedia.

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04-26-2012, 07:11 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
Which is funny since you're describing how they essentially had to put faith in Kari that he would change his ways. Does that make Kari a god?
Yes, that's exactly what it means.

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04-26-2012, 07:13 PM
  #331
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Why do you think people have been putting " Kari" in the GDTs?

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04-28-2012, 10:59 PM
  #332
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This place has been so dead since the last game...

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04-28-2012, 11:51 PM
  #333
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It'll heat back up on draft day, with much *****ing and disagreement. Then it'll keep going till FA, where everyone will be mad at the signings we did or didn't make. Then it'll quiet down again until August where the woodwork comes out to claim how bad this team will be in the coming season.

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04-28-2012, 11:53 PM
  #334
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Kinda disappeared most of last season, so I didn't know if this was typical or not.

Thanks.

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04-29-2012, 02:33 AM
  #335
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Find yourself a good Rangers (texas) forum

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05-05-2012, 08:37 PM
  #336
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1#post49315511

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05-07-2012, 09:38 AM
  #337
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http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/05...er-moving.html

Quote:
Nobody ever thought Oklahoma City was big enough for major-league sports.

But if the Thunder can rock that city all the way to the bank, so could the Dallas Stars in Fort Worth....
Saw this article in the Star-Telegram a few days ago and I couldn't help but laugh. It wasn't the lack of an owner creating attendance issues. Losing games and not making the playoffs isn't the reason that attendance has been low. The REAL reason the building has been so empty is that the team plays in Dallas and not Fort Worth.

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05-07-2012, 10:13 AM
  #338
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What an idiot.

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05-07-2012, 11:29 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Fly Like a C5 View Post
http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/05...er-moving.html

Saw this article in the Star-Telegram a few days ago and I couldn't help but laugh. It wasn't the lack of an owner creating attendance issues. Losing games and not making the playoffs isn't the reason that attendance has been low. The REAL reason the building has been so empty is that the team plays in Dallas and not Fort Worth.
I think Bud should do a wee bit of research. The North Stars played in Bloomington, which was probably actually a bit closer to St. Paul than Minneapolis. The team didn't play second fiddle to the T-Wolves, either. Simply put, they were just in an aging arena with a difficult lease deal and they ran out of options to make it work. Had they been able to move to the basketball-controlled Target Center, the North Stars would have been fine in Minneapolis.

If the Xcel Energy Center was built in Bloomington, in Minneapolis, or any other suburb, the Wild would have been well received and had that building been built in the North Stars' days they would have had no problem with it.

As for the topic at hand, I'm not familiar with the bankruptcy sale, but A) Doesn't Gaglardi now own a good chunk of the building the FWST would have him abandon, one that brings him extra concessions for having that successful basketball team? B) Does Fort Worth have a new building with luxury suites, etc. that can be monetized in a way that is more lucrative? Can one be built to yield the same revenue? C) Didn't the Stars do just fine when they were putting a successful product on ice?

Furthermore, if Oklahoma City is such a great place, why didn't they pose the question of the team moving there too?

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05-07-2012, 12:47 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Fly Like a C5 View Post
I saw this when it came out and decided not to post it here just because it was so inconceivably stupid. In the history of bad ideas, this is right up there.

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05-07-2012, 01:01 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
As for the topic at hand, I'm not familiar with the bankruptcy sale, but A) Doesn't Gaglardi now own a good chunk of the building the FWST would have him abandon, one that brings him extra concessions for having that successful basketball team? B) Does Fort Worth have a new building with luxury suites, etc. that can be monetized in a way that is more lucrative? Can one be built to yield the same revenue? C) Didn't the Stars do just fine when they were putting a successful product on ice?
This paragraph is what makes the article so stupid. The three simple questions you've posed completely destroy the position taken in the article.

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05-08-2012, 02:05 AM
  #342
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I started to post this in the playoffs thread but it didn't seem like the right place so I'll put this here...

I wonder how these last few years would have played out had we not made the trade for Richards back in 2008. Keeping Smith could have drastically changed our fortunes when Turco began to decline.

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05-08-2012, 07:59 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I started to post this in the playoffs thread but it didn't seem like the right place so I'll put this here...

I wonder how these last few years would have played out had we not made the trade for Richards back in 2008. Keeping Smith could have drastically changed our fortunes when Turco began to decline.
There's too many variables to say yes or no, IMO. Smith didn't even turn into a good starting goaltender for 4 years ... well I guess he technically skipped good and went straight to excellent in PHX.

One variable though is was TB the issue with the "Safe is Death" let's have the goalie facing multiple odd-man rushes mantra could have been the issue? Probably.

Then, assuming he stayed in a more structured system like Dallas' at the time with Tippett, does Dallas get to the Conference Finals without Brad Richards? Turco was honestly exceptional in the playoffs, but the emergence of Eriksson and Richards chemistry in the playoffs that year were also big for the team.

So next possibility, without the added firepower of Richards, Dallas goes out in the first round. Tippett is now 1-6 in Dallas playoff series including 0-5 of the last 5. Plus, the team was atrocious down the stretch that year. They limped into the playoffs. How can we say with any confidence that Tippett holds on to his job after that season?

What if everything was just fine, Dallas still made the Conference finals? Injuries still catch up with Sergei Zubov and Philippe Boucher. Norstrom still retires for his girls. Dallas is still left with a young, weak defense. Dallas still doesn't have the resources to replace any of them. Turco's declining skills obviously didn't help, but it's not like Smith was effective with a poor defense in Tampa Bay either.

It seems rather silly to make excuses for money with how PHX is performing right now, but that hurt the Dallas Stars. Their management didn't navigate the financial issues as well as PHX.

Maybe one plus for your point would be Dallas focusing more on defense rather than spending close to $8 million on one offensive player. I think it's reasonable to say building a strong defensive team is much cheaper than building a dynamic offense. If you focus your limited resources on defense instead and keep Mike Smith there is something to that.

However, even without Brad Richards, Les Jackson/Brett Hull are still at the helm of the team, and their ultimate decision to acquire Brad Richards would seem to indicate they were more concerned with goals and offense. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to assume they still neglect the defensive side of the puck and just go chase a different offensive player?

I just don't think it's as simple as substituting one player for the other in a "what if" discussion.

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05-08-2012, 08:34 AM
  #344
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I tried really hard to refrain from making a point, thus the use of 'could' rather than 'would'.

There are definitely a ton of variables to consider but one concession to the way things eventually did play out that I'm willing to make is that I feel quite strongly that Mike Smith is a very solid goaltender. He was when he was here. He is again now. Really, what his time in Tampa should speak to is how that is an organization where goalies go to die. Luckily for Smith he was young enough to get out while he could.

One thing I will debate you on is your characterization of the Jackson/Hull philosophy being more offensively oriented at the expense of defense, at least as far as the Richards acquisition goes. I think they wanted a hell of a shot in the arm and were prepared to pay what it took to get that. Tampa was in a tough spot with their ownership situation and lost a little leverage in the trade market due to their necessity to sell the asset. If they had a surplus of high quality defensemen I think Stars management at the time would have been in on that as well.

I agree that the Stars probably don't make the Conference Finals in '08 without making that trade.

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05-08-2012, 02:14 PM
  #345
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Smith was great in Tampa until he got concussed. Now that he has fully recovered he's great again. No big mystery there.

I never liked the Richards trade and would've assumed to just never acquire him. But I can understand the reasoning behind turning several less valuable assets into one higher-profile piece if the opportunity presents itself.

edit: Haha, check this thread out. I wanted to undo that trade even after we made the WCF. That was not a popular opinion.

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05-08-2012, 03:58 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Smith was great in Tampa until he got concussed. Now that he has fully recovered he's great again. No big mystery there.

I never liked the Richards trade and would've assumed to just never acquire him. But I can understand the reasoning behind turning several less valuable assets into one higher-profile piece if the opportunity presents itself.

edit: Haha, check this thread out. I wanted to undo that trade even after we made the WCF. That was not a popular opinion.
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- Mike Smith is a starter
- Jokinen would play more than 12 minutes per game
- Brad Richards is not a number one center
I actually lol'd.

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Old
05-08-2012, 04:24 PM
  #347
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I don't get that. Richards was our primary offensive thread and probably "saved" us from being lottery contenders for 2 years. I don't know if Smith would have stuck around long enough to take over for Turco by the time he regressed, nor would he probably be as good as he is in Phoenix right now 2 years ago.

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Old
05-08-2012, 06:29 PM
  #348
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I don't get that. Richards was our primary offensive thread and probably "saved" us from being lottery contenders for 2 years. I don't know if Smith would have stuck around long enough to take over for Turco by the time he regressed, nor would he probably be as good as he is in Phoenix right now 2 years ago.
This can't really be anything more than a hunch, right? Sure, his experiences in Tampa helped shape the person and professional that Mike Smith is but he showed every sign of being the type of goalie we're seeing right now when he was in Dallas. His time in Tampa started off really well and then was basically a nightmare, due in large part to factors outside of his control.

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05-08-2012, 09:48 PM
  #349
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Smith was great in Tampa until he got concussed. Now that he has fully recovered he's great again. No big mystery there.

I never liked the Richards trade and would've assumed to just never acquire him. But I can understand the reasoning behind turning several less valuable assets into one higher-profile piece if the opportunity presents itself.

edit: Haha, check this thread out. I wanted to undo that trade even after we made the WCF. That was not a popular opinion.
You know a stat that shocked me?

Brad Richards had 5 PP points for the playoffs in 2008 (all assists). That was only good for 6th on the team behind Ribeiro (11A), Modano (5G-4A), Robidas (3G-5A), Morrow (4G-3A), and Lehtinen (3G-3A). He was 6th in ice time as well, but he played over 4:00 minutes a game still similar to the other players. Only Ribs played over 5 minutes.

Glovesave brought up an interesting question even though I don't think there's a good way to answer it. I was still thinking about it tonight driving home. When I got on the computer, I was surprised that Richards' PP stats weren't as prominent as I expected.

Dallas' PP was so important in the upset of Anaheim and San Jose

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05-08-2012, 09:53 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
One thing I will debate you on is your characterization of the Jackson/Hull philosophy being more offensively oriented at the expense of defense, at least as far as the Richards acquisition goes. I think they wanted a hell of a shot in the arm and were prepared to pay what it took to get that. Tampa was in a tough spot with their ownership situation and lost a little leverage in the trade market due to their necessity to sell the asset. If they had a surplus of high quality defensemen I think Stars management at the time would have been in on that as well.
That's a fair point. Given the circumstance in Tampa Bay and the fact Richards was acquired as a salary dump it's probably not fair to draw the conclusion that Dallas management was focused on fixing the offensive of the team. The more appropriate conclusion is probably they just jumped at adding a big name asset with a winning pedigree like you pointed out.

So that does bring up another interesting point. If they didn't land Richards (IIRC, CB offered more didn't they, but Richie wouldn't go?), what could Dallas have used that money (nearly $8 million) on the summer?

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