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Flames Rebuild

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Old
05-08-2012, 12:49 AM
  #1
oilersfan11
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Flames Rebuild

What could the flames get for

Jarome Iginla
Miikka Kiprusoff
Jay Bouwmeester
Olli Jokinen


?

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Old
05-08-2012, 12:51 AM
  #2
Marlo Stanfield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
What could the flames get for

Jarome Iginla
Miikka Kiprusoff
Jay Bouwmeester
Olli Jokinen


?
Players and/or draft picks

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Old
05-08-2012, 12:55 AM
  #3
oilersfan11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Jonsson View Post
Players and/or draft picks
Like?

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05-08-2012, 01:04 AM
  #4
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Jokinen is a UFA. Likely he signs elsewhere as a result of the recent signing of the Czech.

Iggy could fetch a decent roster player, a first and a decent prospect.

JayBo played well last year, just not 6 million well, he has a great first pass and can skate. In a more flowing offensive style he could put
up his FLA numbers again.
Depending on the team, could fetch an upper level prospect if the team he is moved to is close to competing. Add a pick, maybe a 2nd.

Kipper has the most value. For a team that is a goalie away, a 1rst, a solid top 6 or top 4 D, and a prospect.

Just my opinion.

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Old
05-08-2012, 01:04 AM
  #5
Marlo Stanfield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
Like?
Iginla to Vancouver for Schroeder + Booth + 2nd

Kipper to Chicago for Pirri + Stalberg + 2nd

Bouwmeester to Philly for JVR + a 6/7 defenseman

Jokinen to UFA

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Old
05-08-2012, 01:14 AM
  #6
Devilspuppet666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
What could the flames get for

Jarome Iginla
Miikka Kiprusoff
Jay Bouwmeester
Olli Jokinen


?
i think Giordano would be moved before Jaybo because gio does everything well but bouwmeester could definitely help teach young dmen (future draft picks) and help merge them into the nhl, plus i think gio's price tag is pretty desirable to a team with an internal cap/ or near the NHL cap

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Old
05-08-2012, 01:15 AM
  #7
Devilspuppet666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Jonsson View Post
Iginla to Vancouver for Schroeder + Booth + 2nd

Kipper to Chicago for Pirri + Stalberg + 2nd

Bouwmeester to Philly for JVR + a 6/7 defenseman

Jokinen to UFA
both unlikely, ESPECIALLY the iginla trade.

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Old
05-08-2012, 02:51 AM
  #8
Mr Misty
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Dallas 1st and Fistric for Bouwmeester

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Old
05-08-2012, 04:52 AM
  #9
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the Flames are not going to do a scorched earth rebuild, the team has been extremely vocal about it so you might as well give up suggesting it.

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Old
05-08-2012, 05:01 AM
  #10
oilersfan11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
the Flames are not going to do a scorched earth rebuild, the team has been extremely vocal about it so you might as well give up suggesting it.
Why don't they get it though that they need to do it?How can you not to get it that the flames are not a playoff team, and are not going to have any success unless they do a scorched earth rebuild.





Wow Calgary

Massive facepalm


Last edited by Live in the Now: 05-09-2012 at 12:59 AM. Reason: removed flame
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Old
05-08-2012, 05:21 AM
  #11
Lanny Mcdonald
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Whole-sale Rebuilds are a thing of the past. Retooling is all thats needed to be done.


Last edited by Live in the Now: 05-09-2012 at 12:59 AM. Reason: removed response
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Old
05-08-2012, 07:49 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
Why don't they get it though that they need to do it?How can you be so dense not to get it that the flames are not a playoff team, and are not going to have any success unless they do a scorched earth rebuild.





Wow Calgary

Massive facepalm
the only "facepalm" is for you.

No team needs to do a scorched earth rebuild, all a team needs to do is draft well, make smart trades and make smart free agent signings.

To sell everything to intentionally become a bottom feeding loser is just stupid and goes against everything that sport exemplifies.

The Flames are actively getting younger, they are actively trying to improve their drafting (and scouting) and they are becoming more cost conscious than before. The is how they are rebuilding, and it is something they can and will do without throwing in the towel.

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Old
05-08-2012, 07:59 AM
  #13
TOGuy14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
the only "facepalm" is for you.

No team needs to do a scorched earth rebuild, all a team needs to do is draft well, make smart trades and make smart free agent signings.

To sell everything to intentionally become a bottom feeding loser is just stupid and goes against everything that sport exemplifies.

The Flames are actively getting younger, they are actively trying to improve their drafting (and scouting) and they are becoming more cost conscious than before. The is how they are rebuilding, and it is something they can and will do without throwing in the towel.
Pretty sure that scorched earth seems to be the prevailing model of rebuild in the NHL these days.

You can't tell me that what Pittsburgh, Chicago, or Edmonton have built with their abysmal years isn't totally worth it.

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05-08-2012, 08:00 AM
  #14
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A team like Wsh could use a player like Iginla

Sounds like Wsh is going to go with Holtby/Neurvirth but Neuvirth could be a nice chip in a deal with Calgary

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05-08-2012, 08:31 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Pretty sure that scorched earth seems to be the prevailing model of rebuild in the NHL these days.

You can't tell me that what Pittsburgh, Chicago, or Edmonton have built with their abysmal years isn't totally worth it.
Chicago took the better part of a decade to fix their team, and I don't know of them selling off players to get worse, they were just a bad team that bottomed out.

Pittsburgh won a lottery to get the best player in the world.

Edmonton has not shown its worth it in any way what so ever.

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Old
05-08-2012, 08:58 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny Mcdonald View Post
Whole-sale Rebuilds are a thing of the past. Retooling is all thats needed to be done.

facepalm the fact that your a oilers fan instead. ok.
No whole-sale rebuilds are still very much the way to go. Look at the successful rebuilds throughout the last few years:

Pittsburgh
Chicago
Washington
St. Louis
Los Angeles

ALL of them were scorched Earth rebuilds. The only team you could even consider as having a "successful retool" is Ottawa, although their team's success can almost completely be attributed to the emergence of Erik Karlsson, and the Flames do not have any player with half as much potential as Erik Karlsson. And if any Flames fan tries to argue that Sven Bartschi is Calgary's Erik Karlsson, I can assure you everyone on the boards will be laughing at you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
Chicago took the better part of a decade to fix their team, and I don't know of them selling off players to get worse, they were just a bad team that bottomed out.

Pittsburgh won a lottery to get the best player in the world.

Edmonton has not shown its worth it in any way what so ever.
Chicago did not win the cup until 3 years after the drafting of Patrick Kane.

Pittsburgh finished last in the Eastern Conference despite having an 102 point rookie Sidney Crosby, and did not win a cup until 4 years after drafting Crosby.

The Oilers have had Taylor Hall for 2 years, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins for 1 year, and Nail Yakupov hasn't even played yet. The Oilers will be fine.

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05-08-2012, 09:07 AM
  #17
Miller Time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny Mcdonald View Post
Whole-sale Rebuilds are a thing of the past. Retooling is all thats needed to be done.

facepalm the fact that your a oilers fan instead. ok.
Agreed...

Although IMO, smart re-tooling for this flames group starts with re-allocating some, if not all, of the ~20M$ they have tied up in iggy, JBo & kipper...

As a core group, I think it's become clear enough that they aren't going to carry the flames to the cup. Flames have some nice complementary guys, but aside from baertschi (and maybe Reinhart), don't have any quality young players ready to b impact players while still on ELC.

Trading those 3 isn't automatically a "rebuild", they could reasonably get some quality young players ready to contribute now, while getting more $ to use either on ufa or in trade.

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05-08-2012, 09:09 AM
  #18
Trafalgar Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Agreed...

Although IMO, smart re-tooling for this flames group starts with re-allocating some, if not all, of the ~20M$ they have tied up in iggy, JBo & kipper...

As a core group, I think it's become clear enough that they aren't going to carry the flames to the cup. Flames have some nice complementary guys, but aside from baertschi (and maybe Reinhart), don't have any quality young players ready to b impact players while still on ELC.

Trading those 3 isn't automatically a "rebuild", they could reasonably get some quality young players ready to contribute now, while getting more $ to use either on ufa or in trade.
Umm, trading Iginla, Bouwmeester, and Kipper is a full scale rebuild...

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05-08-2012, 09:11 AM
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I doubt Philadelphia has any interest in Bouwmeester and especially not for VanRiemsdyk and a roster defenseman.

Philadelphia would have interest in Giordano, however, and VanRiemsdyk would be in play then.

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05-08-2012, 09:16 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
No whole-sale rebuilds are still very much the way to go. Look at the successful rebuilds throughout the last few years:

Pittsburgh
Chicago
Washington
St. Louis
Los Angeles

ALL of them were scorched Earth rebuilds. The only team you could even consider as having a "successful retool" is Ottawa, although their team's success can almost completely be attributed to the emergence of Erik Karlsson, and the Flames do not have any player with half as much potential as Erik Karlsson. And if any Flames fan tries to argue that Sven Bartschi is Calgary's Erik Karlsson, I can assure you everyone on the boards will be laughing at you.



Chicago did not win the cup until 3 years after the drafting of Patrick Kane.

Pittsburgh finished last in the Eastern Conference despite having an 102 point rookie Sidney Crosby, and did not win a cup until 4 years after drafting Crosby.

The Oilers have had Taylor Hall for 2 years, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins for 1 year, and Nail Yakupov hasn't even played yet. The Oilers will be fine.
For every team that has success with a scorched earth rebuilds there are the other teams that have tried this and failed miserable - see Blue Jackets & Islanders
I know the Islanders are getting closer but they still haven't had a decent playoff appearance since 2002 and the Blue Jackets have never won a playoff game!

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05-08-2012, 09:31 AM
  #21
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I just don't get how anyone can look at the Oilers and see that as a successful rebuild. HF=Fail

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05-08-2012, 09:31 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hendog View Post
For every team that has success with a scorched earth rebuilds there are the other teams that have tried this and failed miserable - see Blue Jackets & Islanders
I know the Islanders are getting closer but they still haven't had a decent playoff appearance since 2002 and the Blue Jackets have never won a playoff game!
The Islanders have an owner who refuses to spend above the cap floor. Very few teams can be successful as a cap floor team. Columbus has the worst drafting and developing in the NHL and it's not even close. If they had even somewhat competent personnel, they'd have played more than 4 playoff games by now.

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05-08-2012, 09:39 AM
  #23
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Did Ottawa go through a full-scale re-build? No... they re-tooled. You can find success without tearing the entire ship down. I would suspect the Flames are going to follow the Ottawa model.

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Old
05-08-2012, 09:41 AM
  #24
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To Wsh:
Jarome Iginla

To Calgary:
Rights to Semin
Yevgeni Kuznetsov
Colorado's 1st
This deal is only if Semin does not agree to sign with Washington.

To Pitsburg:
Alex Tanguay

To Calgary:
Simon Depres

To Tampa:
Mikka Kiprusoff

To Calgary:
Brett Connelly
1st in 2013

I am a flames fan so i doubt these are reasonable, some time we tend to look threw rose coloured glasses.

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Old
05-08-2012, 09:42 AM
  #25
The Hendog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
The Islanders have an owner who refuses to spend above the cap floor. Very few teams can be successful as a cap floor team. Columbus has the worst drafting and developing in the NHL and it's not even close. If they had even somewhat competent personnel, they'd have played more than 4 playoff games by now.
So you are admitting you need more than a scorch earth team rebuild to be successful... Developing draft picks even if they are not top 5 i.e. not scorch earth is very important to creating a winning team... using that logic - earth scorched rebuild isn't really necessary then to create a winning team. See pretty much all the teams remaining in the playoffs aside from the Caps - not scorched earth rebuild teams but young teams that were developed properly and are enjoying that success = scorch earthed is not the only successful way to rebuild a hockey team

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