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Coyotes an inspiration for next year?

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Old
05-07-2012, 11:48 PM
  #1
Flamesarmstrong22
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Coyotes an inspiration for next year?

If you look at this team player by player you could argue that we have a better team in some ways.
Tanguay>Whitney
Cammy>vrbata
Glencross>hanzal
Jokinen>vermette
Iginla>doan

Now we move down to defence where the coyotes I believe are clearly better than us
Giordano=yandle
Bouwmeester=klesla
After gio and bouwmeester the coyotes other 4 D are clearly better than ours.
Aucoin,rosival,Morris,okl>>>sarich,Hannan, butler,brodie

And than goaltending:
Mike smith has played brilliant this year no doubt! However I still give the edge to kipper.

In cuncussion I believe our offence and goaltending is better than Phoenix, now if feaster works on the D this offseason than I see no reason why the flames can't do what the coyotes are doing this year.

P.S add beartchi and cervenka to the mix and it gives our offence a more of an edge. also jay needs to hire a coach who is even remotely close to Tippett , who I believe is the best coach in the NHL

GO 2012-2013 FLAMES!!!


Last edited by Flamesarmstrong22: 05-07-2012 at 11:54 PM.
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Old
05-07-2012, 11:52 PM
  #2
nogger
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Great thread, would read again.

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Old
05-08-2012, 12:25 AM
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The Homer is great with this one.

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Old
05-08-2012, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamesarmstrong22 View Post
If you look at this team player by player you could argue that we have a better team in some ways.
Tanguay>Whitney
Cammy>vrbata
Glencross>hanzal
Jokinen>vermette
Iginla>doan

Now we move down to defence where the coyotes I believe are clearly better than us
Giordano=yandle
Bouwmeester=klesla
After gio and bouwmeester the coyotes other 4 D are clearly better than ours.
Aucoin,rosival,Morris,okl>>>sarich,Hannan, butler,brodie

And than goaltending:
Mike smith has played brilliant this year no doubt! However I still give the edge to kipper.

In cuncussion I believe our offence and goaltending is better than Phoenix, now if feaster works on the D this offseason than I see no reason why the flames can't do what the coyotes are doing this year.

P.S add beartchi and cervenka to the mix and it gives our offence a more of an edge. also jay needs to hire a coach who is even remotely close to Tippett , who I believe is the best coach in the NHL

GO 2012-2013 FLAMES!!!
my favorite part is in bold and explains why chemistry and coaching weren't factored in.

However I do believe we are as good as he Phoenix's and Nashville's of the league if we get good coaching and the players stop standing still.

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Old
05-08-2012, 03:23 AM
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You lost me when you said Tanguay is better than the Wizard

lol, really? Take off the homer glasses

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Old
05-08-2012, 03:25 AM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Jarome Iginla View Post
You lost me when you said Tanguay is better than the Wizard

lol, really? Take off the homer glasses
While I wouldn't say "better" I would argue there is a debate as to who is better.

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Old
05-08-2012, 05:12 AM
  #7
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Phoenix has a captain and leader who buys into his coach's system. The other players follow. We have a captain who publicly disagrees with his coach's system applying to him. The other players follow suit.

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Old
05-08-2012, 08:56 AM
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I'd take Vermette 10/10 over Jokinen. I also think that Whitney is better then Tanguay. Iginla is the best player of the whole lot, the problem is that he doesn't show up until December. Iginla needs to move on IMO, he's burned out from too many years of losing, and has become complacent. That won't get a team to where PHX is now.

Also as you pointed out, our defense is brutal outside of Gio and Bouw.

As usual though, I always have high hopes going into another season. It just won't surprise me if we crash to the bottom of the standings next year.

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05-08-2012, 09:02 AM
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We're certainly lacking a 2-way/shutdown/big-ass C in Hanzal, not to mention a stud 20-year old D in Ekman-Larsson. Or the exceptional defensive system (since we don't even have a coach to implement a system).

Not to mention the head coach who has been to the playoffs in 8 of the 9 seasons that he's been a head coach in the NHL. The one season in which he missed, he was hastily fired by the Stars in favor of Marc Crawford (lol).

But I think we have them for 3rd and 4th line at ES (although that's up in the air w/ FAs), but not for the subsequent PK forwards from those lines. And the edge in goaltending due to Smith's limited track record. But for the rest it's about even or advantage for the Yotes.


On a side note, I'd take Tangs over Whitney but I'm a bit of a Tanguay fanboy. Glencross over Hanzal is laughable though, Jokinen and Vermette is debatable, as is Gio and Yandle being equal.

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Old
05-08-2012, 09:11 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleury14 View Post
We're certainly lacking a 2-way/shutdown/big-ass C in Hanzal, not to mention a stud 20-year old D in Ekman-Larsson. Or the exceptional defensive system (since we don't even have a coach to implement a system).

Not to mention the head coach who has been to the playoffs in 8 of the 9 seasons that he's been a head coach in the NHL. The one season in which he missed, he was hastily fired by the Stars in favor of Marc Crawford (lol).

But I think we have them for 3rd and 4th line at ES (although that's up in the air w/ FAs), but not for the subsequent PK forwards from those lines. And the edge in goaltending due to Smith's limited track record. But for the rest it's about even or advantage for the Yotes.


On a side note, I'd take Tangs over Whitney but I'm a bit of a Tanguay fanboy. Glencross over Hanzal is laughable though, Jokinen and Vermette is debatable, as is Gio and Yandle being equal.
Totally missed that. Yeah I'd take Hanzel over almost anyone on our current lineup.

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Old
05-08-2012, 10:05 AM
  #11
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We don't need "inspiration", we need the team to make the playoffs for a change. Didn't this year, or last year, or the year before that, and for each of those years you could have argued that the Flames looked better than the Coyotes on paper... so why should next year be any different?

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05-08-2012, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotalik Fanboy View Post
We don't need "inspiration", we need the team to make the playoffs for a change. Didn't this year, or last year, or the year before that, and for each of those years you could have argued that the Flames looked better than the Coyotes on paper... so why should next year be any different?
Because now we have inspiration

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05-08-2012, 10:44 AM
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Making the mistake of confusing Calgary's household name forwards with being better players.

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05-08-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
Totally missed that. Yeah I'd take Hanzel over almost anyone on our current lineup.
average over 5 years (with NO trending improvement):

71 Gm, 11G, 21A, 32P

Yes, he brings other things to the table, but those are 3rd line C numbers.

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05-08-2012, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by OrrwastheBeatles View Post
average over 5 years (with NO trending improvement):

71 Gm, 11G, 21A, 32P

Yes, he brings other things to the table, but those are 3rd line C numbers.
I know that, it just shows how brutal our forward lineup is.

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05-08-2012, 11:05 AM
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OrrwastheBeatles
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I know that, it just shows how brutal our forward lineup is.
No, it shows how some people are as much anti-homers as the OP is a homer

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05-08-2012, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by OrrwastheBeatles View Post
No, it shows how some people are as much anti-homers as the OP is a homer
outside of Iginla who would you rather have over Hanzel? I can't think of anyone, Glencross is close, I'd have to think about it more.

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05-08-2012, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrwastheBeatles View Post
average over 5 years (with NO trending improvement):

71 Gm, 11G, 21A, 32P

Yes, he brings other things to the table, but those are 3rd line C numbers.
You don't have to watch the 'Yotes for more than a period to see Hanzal's overall impact. Although lhis offensive game is still developing, his presence defensively, physically and while forechecking is very noticeable.

Not to mention the 5 year average you're looking at is from when he's 20-25 years old. That fact that he's already a top shutdown C in the league is far from the norm, his offensive game will likely come as he enters his prime years.

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Old
05-08-2012, 11:31 AM
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I Hate Chris Butler
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Don't get ahead of yourself. The Coyotes are a good team and it's sure as hell not as easy as "Iginla>Doan."

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Old
05-08-2012, 11:33 AM
  #20
OrrwastheBeatles
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outside of Iginla who would you rather have over Hanzel? I can't think of anyone, Glencross is close, I'd have to think about it more.
The thing is, we need a big C. As a result it is easy to say we might really want him.

But to say he is better than Iginla, Tanguay, Jokinen, Cammalleri or even Glencross is going to be a purely subjective argument as his production doesn't hold a candle to any of them. Yes, there is more to rating a player than just production, but a player better be doing some pretty special things if you want to argue that they are better than all of our top 6 despite numbers that don't compare at all. And Glencross, arguably the lowest ranking player of that group, is our best PKer and brings physicality.

I would love to acquire Hanzal, I just get tired of people under-rating all of our players (maybe I have just been spending too much time on CP lately ).

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Old
05-08-2012, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Fleury14 View Post
You don't have to watch the 'Yotes for more than a period to see Hanzal's overall impact. Although lhis offensive game is still developing, his presence defensively, physically and while forechecking is very noticeable.

Not to mention the 5 year average you're looking at is from when he's 20-25 years old. That fact that he's already a top shutdown C in the league is far from the norm, his offensive game will likely come as he enters his prime years.
But that's the thing: there has been zero improvement in productivity. One would think that from 21 through 25, playing the minutes and quality minutes that he plays (including 3 minutes of PP time per game), that there would be some growth in those numbers. But nothing.

Not trashing the guy - he is a big, solid 2-way C and would love to have him on the Flames. Just trying to keep some perspective.


Last edited by OrrwastheBeatles: 05-08-2012 at 11:44 AM.
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Old
05-08-2012, 11:44 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by OrrwastheBeatles View Post
But that's the thing: there has been zero improvement in productivity. One would think that from 21 through 25, playing the minutes and quality minutes that he plays (including 3 minutes of PP time per game), that there would be some growth in those numbers. But nothing.

Not trashing the guy - he is a big, solid 2-way C and would love to have him on the Flames.
Hanzal isn't a guy relied on for offense. Just looking at his numbers is unfair to him. I'm not comparing Hanzal in any way to these guys, yet, but look at the production of guys like Sami Pahlson and John Madden. Save for a one or two stand out years, offensive production was the same; Hanzal's contributions can't be measured in stats.

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05-08-2012, 11:46 AM
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Better coached and better team cohesion is how they win. They all bought into Tippets plan.

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05-08-2012, 11:47 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by I Hate Jay Feaster View Post
Hanzal isn't a guy relied on for offense. Just looking at his numbers is unfair to him. I'm not comparing Hanzal in any way to these guys, yet, but look at the production of guys like Sami Pahlson and John Madden. Save for a one or two stand out years, offensive production was the same; Hanzal's contributions can't be measured in stats.
Agreed. But if people want to start suggesting that he is better than all of our players, then production does become a factor that has to be considered.

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05-08-2012, 11:52 AM
  #25
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Agreed. But if people want to start suggesting that he is better than all of our players, then production does become a factor that has to be considered.
Well, I wouldn't want him centering Tangs and Iggy, but I'd rather have him centering the bottom 6 over a guy like Moss or Stajan.

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