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Hartnell's Next Contract

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Old
03-20-2012, 12:33 PM
  #51
Prongo
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Originally Posted by flyersjamminontheone View Post
Buddy you are right as rain. As far as captaincy....maybe not.
I like to think Claude Giroux is the Flyers best player.

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03-20-2012, 01:07 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I like to think Claude Giroux is the Flyers best player.
I personally cannot argue with this -- unless Bryz plays like he has this month on a consistent basis from here on out... and even then, maybe -- BUT... at this point Harts may be the Flyers MVP for the entire season because of what he has given the team beyond his team leading goals and NHL leading PPGs... He very rarely takes a game off and not give 125% nor does he very put the team in a bad situation with wildass lapses of judgement with his action as he once was prone to due... His penalties have often been ones that leaves the team even or on a PP and very often puts them in a favorable position in that he agitates the opposition into a frenzy, yet does it in a manner that doesn't embarrass his teammates or City or fans like an Avery did... He has taken the Hartnell Down derisive joke and made it a charity rallying point; and his falling down is mainly from his all out play that means throwing his body around to accomplish his goal.

He may not be the Flyers best player... but he is one that the Flyers can least do without. Giroux should be a Hart Finalist, but Hartnell could win the Flyers Bobby Clarke Trophy as the team's MVP, and I don't think many people beyond diehard Giroux fans would strongly object.

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03-20-2012, 09:43 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I like to think Claude Giroux is the Flyers best player.
If by best you mean most skilled, then sure hands down. This has been Hartnells year, some of which because of Giroux, and likewise for Giroux beacause of Hartnell.

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03-22-2012, 02:32 PM
  #54
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if we give him over 4.5 he can walk.

We have enough offense AS IS. put that money towards DEFENSE!

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05-08-2012, 12:12 PM
  #55
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Reviving this again to once again pitch my "trade Hartnell while his value is the highest" idea.

I know we can receive a decent return for the guy.

Trade him (or package him) for a D.

That opens up space for Couts to move from 4th line duty to top 4.

This move would also be telling Simmonds to pick up the roll as a in front of the net grinder (which he performed like a master) during the post season. Not so much this playoffs.

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05-08-2012, 01:18 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Reviving this again to once again pitch my "trade Hartnell while his value is the highest" idea.

I know we can receive a decent return for the guy.

Trade him (or package him) for a D.

That opens up space for Couts to move from 4th line duty to top 4.

This move would also be telling Simmonds to pick up the roll as a in front of the net grinder (which he performed like a master) during the post season. Not so much this playoffs.
no way

Hartnell is a fan favourite and loved by his teammates. He's a huge part of this team's core and leadership group

trading him would not me a smart idea

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05-08-2012, 02:41 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
no way

Hartnell is a fan favourite and loved by his teammates. He's a huge part of this team's core and leadership group

trading him would not me a smart idea
Yea, I think I agree with you. Harts has been dependable and consistent. I'm not ready to put our future into "hands of stone" simmonds just yet.
I thought we would let him walk, but I think we almost have to keep him now.

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Old
05-08-2012, 03:35 PM
  #58
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You don't pay a guy 6M who started the year on the 4th line. Hartsy had a great year, but he has shown to be inconsistent and is not a superstar in this league.

The Flyers will wait to see what the new CBA brings before they do anything with him. As noted above, we need more defense, not offense. If he wants too much money, fine let him walk. We will have Couts, Schenn & Voracek a year older. We also have to keep in mind G will be getting top dollar in 2014, likely 8M or so.

2014 also sees raises for Couts, Schenn, Mez and Read (who may walk). Not saying I want Hartnell gone, but we do have plenty of depth and most teams don't have a guy like Sean Couturier on their 4th line.

I'd be happy with 4.75M / 5 years or 5M / 3 years.

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05-08-2012, 04:01 PM
  #59
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As much as it pains me to say this, since he's definitely one of the guys I like most on our team right now, he's replaceable. $6m would definitely be too much, so hopefully it doesn't come to having to make that choice. The way I see it, he's the heart and soul of this Flyers team, so I wouldn't mind if we overpayed him in comparison to his numbers (not just this year's ones, but his last, say, three seasons). But I don't think we can afford to overpay him by too much, since, like people have said, Giroux is up for a raise, and if we're to retool our defense in the slightest, having enough cap space is going to be important.

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05-08-2012, 09:37 PM
  #60
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Would it not be possible, seeing that Hartnell's value is sky high right now and only one year remaining on his contract, that we trade him this off season ......we could probably still get an awful lot for the guy and seeing that we are not going to be able to afford his contract after next season, mayby strike while the iron is hot so to speak.....

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05-08-2012, 10:12 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Devonator View Post
Would it not be possible, seeing that Hartnell's value is sky high right now and only one year remaining on his contract, that we trade him this off season ......we could probably still get an awful lot for the guy and seeing that we are not going to be able to afford his contract after next season, mayby strike while the iron is hot so to speak.....
He's got a NTC, and that'd be a d*ck move by Homer to move him just because he *might* command 6M when he's up for a new deal.

If he traded Hartsy (assuming NTC is waived), no big name guy would ever sign with him again. At some point you have to show loyalty, and Hartnell deserves to at least play out his contract as a Flyer.

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05-08-2012, 10:19 PM
  #62
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I hope they resign Hartnell. One of my favorite players.

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05-09-2012, 01:31 AM
  #63
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I cannot imagine this Flyers team without Scott Hartnell. period.

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05-09-2012, 02:07 AM
  #64
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Yea, he is really important to our team. Wonder how hurt he was playing in this devils series...

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05-09-2012, 03:26 AM
  #65
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Ill say this, they need to stop playing RFA's and UFA's with giroux. Any player with Giroux centering him is going to have inflated stats. Hartnell included. Id really like to see him moved to Briere's line next year and have JVR on Roo's line to get his confidence and potential trade value back up.

We will have to resign hartnell simply because he adds so much to this team and locker room. But we also have to keep in mind who we will be offering contracts to in the future i.e. simmonds, voracek, couts, schenn, etc.

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05-09-2012, 05:48 AM
  #66
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I believe the flyers are going to continue to have salary cap issues for the next 3-4 seasons especially if they are able to acquire a high priced player (I.E. Suter or Weber). I also agree with previous posts that hartnell's numbers are inflated due to playing with Giroux.

So when looking at the big picture, I think the flyers should look into trading Hartnell this offseason while his value is at an all-time high. The team can avoid the hefty raise he will surely get in his next contract and recieve a very good return for him.

Wayne Simmonds scored 28 goals this season without playing on Giroux's line (excluding power play time) so I dont think there is any doubt he would be able to get to the 35 goal plateau. Not to mention he is 7 years younger then Hartnell so he hasnt even hit his prime yet.

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05-09-2012, 06:26 AM
  #67
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Moving Hartnell is a impossible scenario for many reasons.

1. No trade Clause
2. Our Best Scorer
3. One of the most versatile players we have
4. Beloved by teammates and fans
5. Proven commodity, playoff performer, and great locker room guy


The only downside is age. Big lumbering PF's age quickly, and although hartnell is moving well now, a slight drop in speed could prove to be disastrous. I do think he will take a home town discount however, which should alleviate some concern on both sides.

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05-09-2012, 07:12 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post

The only downside is age. Big lumbering PF's age quickly, and although hartnell is moving well now, a slight drop in speed could prove to be disastrous. I do think he will take a home town discount however, which should alleviate some concern on both sides.
True but I see him developing into a Mike Knuble type guy in his late 30's... very valuable veteran leadership + being smart enough to know how to play to still be effective. He wasn't rushing the puck up end to end but he could be depended on in key situations and could still go to the net on the PP and grind out goals. From age 35-39 Knuble, despite starting to really lose his legs, was able to play on scoring lines and put up 24,29,27,29 and 24 goals respectively... I think 4 of those 5 seasons were 50 pt+ seasons.

I could see Hartnell doing the same. Depending on how he does in the first 25-30 games next year, if you accept him as being your top line LW in the foreseeable future, that likely makes him worth 5-5.5/yr for 5 years... after that if he's secure in Philly and still useful, he could follow the Knuble in his late 30's pattern as some kind of a benchmark, I think he was earning 2.8 mil for all but last year, where he just got 2.0.

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05-09-2012, 07:27 AM
  #69
Jtown
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Originally Posted by canadajazz View Post
True but I see him developing into a Mike Knuble type guy in his late 30's... very valuable veteran leadership + being smart enough to know how to play to still be effective. He wasn't rushing the puck up end to end but he could be depended on in key situations and could still go to the net on the PP and grind out goals. From age 35-39 Knuble, despite starting to really lose his legs, was able to play on scoring lines and put up 24,29,27,29 and 24 goals respectively... I think 4 of those 5 seasons were 50 pt+ seasons.

I could see Hartnell doing the same. Depending on how he does in the first 25-30 games next year, if you accept him as being your top line LW in the foreseeable future, that likely makes him worth 5-5.5/yr for 5 years... after that if he's secure in Philly and still useful, he could follow the Knuble in his late 30's pattern as some kind of a benchmark, I think he was earning 2.8 mil for all but last year, where he just got 2.0.

to some extent I agree. Hartnell's game certainly does not depend on Speed, but his ability to backcheck adds a dimension to his game that makes him dynamic and he is able to play with different linemates.


i will say that I dont see him getting run down like Tim Kerr did. But i said the same thing about Leclair, and he dropped off big time after 30. But i do honestly believe Hartnell wants to be a flyer for life.

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