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Dubinsky

View Poll Results: Should the team move Dubi?
No, the NYR shouldn't deal him. 62 47.69%
Yes, the NYR should deal him. 68 52.31%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-08-2012, 01:09 PM
  #51
ck20
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Goes from discussions of "Captain Dubi or Captain Cally?" to "UM HOW IS DUBI EVEN ON THIS TEAM JUST GET RID OF HIS SALARY" in a matter of 7 months. Dubi is still as much apart of this team as John Mitchell, Anton Stralman, and Henrik Lundqvist. He was expected to continue to step his game up since he was only trending up, and maybe Richards coming in and (presumably) "taking" the A when Dubi would most likely have been the most logical next-in-line for a letter may have upset the balance of things with him, but Dubi's a quality guy that this team could undoubtedly use.

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Old
05-08-2012, 01:12 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by DontStaal View Post
agree 100% here. I think people go to hockeydb and forget his intangibles.
Dubi also helps Cally out a lot imo
Yes because there guys willing to really get in those tough areas and actually come out with the puck. Like hagelin also and its spreading as more and more guys are giving the extra effort.

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05-08-2012, 01:16 PM
  #53
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One thing to add you dont get far with a weak link not even one. The league is so tight and close that if you have 1 or 2 you wont go far even with stars on the team. Right now there is no weak link in terms of a player. All those banging Mitchell, hes been good, hes played great for him minutes. Rupp has played well, much improved from reg season. There is just no room for weak links if your in the second and possibly third round. A guy like Wolski was a weak link for his time, so didnt play. You dont play if your not doing something good out there, esp under Torts.

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05-08-2012, 01:58 PM
  #54
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Only way Dubi is on this team next year is if the Rangers win it all. Anything less and he is a goner either as a salary dump or in a package for an upgrade.

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05-08-2012, 02:02 PM
  #55
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Only if it REALLY helps. Why throw him out for something not good in return?

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05-08-2012, 02:06 PM
  #56
NYR Sting
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
I never get tired of this viewpoint. Player "x" is dumped on by a fanbase and in the same breath said fanbase expects the guy
to fetch an upgrade in a trade....
No, we expect a package of which Dubinsky would be a part of to fetch an upgrade. That means a lot more than just Dubinsky going the other way.

Quote:
Dubi is going nowhere. He had a tough year offensively, but is young enough to rebound. All of the "intangibles" are still there and he is still very solid on the defensive side of the puck. He's a contributor to the team that's been constructed, and that's all that matters.
And I never tire of the viewpoint that he "had a tough year offensively," when the truth is he's only had one notable season offensively. His tough year is just a return to the offensive production he's given every year except 2010-11, the only season he's been any sort of consistent offensively. In terms of being a contributor, he's actually a completely redundant piece for the team as currently constructed. The team has a number of cheap, defensive-minded forwards that are quality penalty killers. What the team doesn't have is enough scoring in the top six, particularly on the LW.

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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
Ok you dont watch the games i guess. He was the best forward on the team last year and it wasent close.
That is as incorrect a statement as you could make about this hockey team.

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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
Are you really going to make this argument. What the hell did you think Drury point production per dollar was when he was here. Umm 7 mil for 50 points and PP time. Richards is getting 12 mil this year his point per dollar isnt exactly on par. If you watched the Rangers long enough there is not many players who have produced there contracts and the same around the league.

This is the first season hes been paid this money, he played like our best forward the last 2 or seasons before this. No one will argue hes consistency every game and in games are not always there but hes far from being any teams weakest link. The kid can create a play out of nothing, if you get what im saying. Few players can do this. Avery had the ability as well but im sure you will use that to say and look were he is. The point is, hes a good player to have and i as well as i hope most fans can think of much worse contracts now and more so the last 10 years. Il take him over Drury or Gomez even if he gets 10 points.
Unbelievable. What do Drury, Gomez, or Richards have to do with Dubinsky? What is your basis for comparison? You're comparing a 25 year old RFA's contract with the UFA contracts signed by players in the prime of their careers, contracts handed out by a desperate team. Not only that, but Drury and Gomez are two of the worst roster moves this team has ever made. Richards is basically the only difference between this year's team and last year's team, other than the fact that this year's team didn't have Marc Staal for half the season and Dubinsky's production dropped like a sack of potatoes, and yet the team went from being a bubble team to nearly winning the President's Trophy. Richards is leading this team in playoff scoring and scoring some of the biggest goals in franchise history, Dubinsky isn't even in the lineup.

And, once again, Dubinsky has NEVER been the Rangers' best forward. Not last season, not the season before. Never.

There's this other guy on the team, the guy who averaged more PPG last season than Dubinsky, who is a better defensive player and better penalty killer than Dubinsky, and who was named the captain of the team. The team's coach has to talk about Dubinsky and his "progress" constantly, routinely addressing the different measures he's taking to improve his play. Constantly shifting him around the lineup, trying to get him going. That other guy? The only thing the coach has ever said about him is "I'm never going to criticize Ryan Callahan."

Not only do some of you people have this crazy, unreasonable bias toward a guy who is consistent at just one thing, being inconsistent, but it prevents you from appreciating the player who legitimately deserves the adoration you choose to bestow on Dubinsky. You don't even understand what you have here, and that's sad, because you have an incredible player, and you're busy falling all over yourselves to make excuses for a player who is barely notable.

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Old
05-08-2012, 02:22 PM
  #57
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Gaborik, Callahan, Hagelin, Kreider: do you play Dubi over any of these four wingers next season?

No, so he's now a bottom-6 player making $4 MM a year and putting up 3rd line numbers. He's a good defensive/PK forward who makes a little bit too much money for his position but what can you do.

I can't see the Rangers getting much for him ("selling low") after an off year. I thought Gaborik was done after last season and he certainly bounced back.

If they do trade Dubi, what are the Rangers trying to get in return? D is pretty well set unless you are trying to find an upgrade for McD, Girardi, Staal, MDZ and Erixon. Bringing in someone to play the top 6 means either trading or bumping to the bottom 6 one of Hagelin, Kreider, or Stepan.

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05-08-2012, 03:35 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by petejudge View Post
one rough season and people are all over a guy who has been part of our core for years now. he led the team in scoring last season and even though his scoring isn't there his defense and intangibles are superb. keep the guy, he's an untouchable right now if you ask me.

Same here. But everyone seems to think if they sign a big free agent or trade for Nash his salary has to go.

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Old
05-08-2012, 03:52 PM
  #59
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Um, what big free agent? Trade for Nash? Oh lord why are we even talking about big free agents or a trade for Nash now? IMO we should have signed Ville Leino or Sean Bergenheim last offseason since those are two guys who usually play in the playoffs. I think we just need another goal scorer or better yet, a bonafide power forward, OR a PP QB. To get Nash we will have to get rid of half the team and to sign a big free agent we will have to ruin our cap situation and we don't need to do that now especially since guys will be RFA soon. When i say another goal scorer i mean a 20-25 goal guy, a guy like Erik Cole would have been nice or even a Kostitsyn, why do we need to ruin our cap signing every big name player out there all the time? We have Richards and Gaborik, let's get a guy who can keep up with them and put up 20-25 and call it a day, Kreider might be that guy or even Hagelin.

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05-08-2012, 04:15 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 View Post
Um, what big free agent? Trade for Nash? Oh lord why are we even talking about big free agents or a trade for Nash now? IMO we should have signed Ville Leino or Sean Bergenheim last offseason since those are two guys who usually play in the playoffs. I think we just need another goal scorer or better yet, a bonafide power forward, OR a PP QB. To get Nash we will have to get rid of half the team and to sign a big free agent we will have to ruin our cap situation and we don't need to do that now especially since guys will be RFA soon. When i say another goal scorer i mean a 20-25 goal guy, a guy like Erik Cole would have been nice or even a Kostitsyn, why do we need to ruin our cap signing every big name player out there all the time? We have Richards and Gaborik, let's get a guy who can keep up with them and put up 20-25 and call it a day, Kreider might be that guy or even Hagelin.
Something we absolutely don't need. We need a guy who can shoot from the point, not a another PPQB.

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Old
05-08-2012, 04:32 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Something we absolutely don't need. We need a guy who can shoot from the point, not a another PPQB.
What? Who do we need then?

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Old
05-08-2012, 04:42 PM
  #62
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We had the best team in the East this year. We now have Kreider who appears to fit right in with the team mentality. Instead of keeping that chemistry and building on it from within, we choose to go out and get Nash or someone like Nash. This means we trade Dubinsky and Del Zotto or Staal (assuming Danny and MacDonagh are not going anywhere), and more to get Nash (likely Stepan and/or Kreider).

With Gaborik and Nash at RW, we have to move Cally to the third line. Cally's numbers will suffer accordingly. In fact, look at Cally's stats this year and compare them to Dubinsky's last year. Wow, they are almost the same (Cally 5 more goals to Dubi's 5 more assists). Third line minutes/lineamtes (Boyle and Prust) and Cally likely performs the same as Dubinsky did this year. Is he too expensive a third liner as well? It prepetuates itself because playing with lesser linemates means you don't have the freedom you had before. Don't get me wrong, I don't question either guys heart, but it isn't as simple as you all let on.

Let the flaming begin.

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05-08-2012, 04:46 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 View Post
What? Who do we need then?
A hard accurate shot from the point, a guy who pulls enemy PKrs to him. A right handed shot also wouldn't hurt. This would open up the middle more for guys like Richards or Del Zotto who can make effective passes.

A big reason why we struggle so much on our PP is the enemy pk can cheat by collapsing into the middle because there is no significant scoring threat from the points. Thus limiting us to the perimeter.

A guy like Shea Weber would completely change how our PP would look. Not saying that is who this team should acquire, but they need to find a booming shot either in their second or third pairing. Erixon might be that guy but I am not sure.

Another PPQB(unless he has a Nasty shot)just complicates things. Then you have ANOTHER dude who wants to hold onto the puck and pass for a set up. We need a guy whose first instinct is to shoot when a lane opens. Its a big reason I HATE seeing Del Zotto and Richards paired together on the points. They both have the same instincts.


Last edited by Blueshirt Believer: 05-08-2012 at 04:53 PM.
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Old
05-08-2012, 05:04 PM
  #64
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Wow, what douchey timing for a thread like this. Trying to literally add insult to injury.

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Old
05-08-2012, 05:31 PM
  #65
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Said yes, but not to give him away cheap. Would move as part of comprehensive strategy to get snipers we desperately need. I have no problem keeping him at the right price, atm his cap hit is better used otherwise.

I say this: whatever else, Dubi was never a bum. He played hard every night.

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05-08-2012, 06:19 PM
  #66
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I think he's a nice little player, but he's not worth half his cap hit. Voted yes based on that.

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05-08-2012, 07:01 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
A hard accurate shot from the point, a guy who pulls enemy PKrs to him. A right handed shot also wouldn't hurt. This would open up the middle more for guys like Richards or Del Zotto who can make effective passes.

A big reason why we struggle so much on our PP is the enemy pk can cheat by collapsing into the middle because there is no significant scoring threat from the points. Thus limiting us to the perimeter.

A guy like Shea Weber would completely change how our PP would look. Not saying that is who this team should acquire, but they need to find a booming shot either in their second or third pairing. Erixon might be that guy but I am not sure.

Another PPQB(unless he has a Nasty shot)just complicates things. Then you have ANOTHER dude who wants to hold onto the puck and pass for a set up. We need a guy whose first instinct is to shoot when a lane opens. Its a big reason I HATE seeing Del Zotto and Richards paired together on the points. They both have the same instincts.


Good points. A guy like Ryan Whitney would do us good but he is a left hand shot, still has a cannon tho. Or even Joe Corvo can work here, even tho the defense might suffer a bit our offense should increase if we do get a guy that can blast it on the PP. I'm willing to risk it tho since we have Hank to bail us out, we have a great defense but we are missing that key point man for the PP.

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Old
05-08-2012, 07:07 PM
  #68
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It makes no sense to move him unless they get something really good back which they wont cause he had an off yr

the guy is a gutsy player. Let him try and bounce back. He would be a big addition to the lineup right now

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05-08-2012, 08:01 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
It makes no sense to move him unless they get something really good back which they wont cause he had an off yr

the guy is a gutsy player. Let him try and bounce back. He would be a big addition to the lineup right now
Agreed

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05-08-2012, 08:13 PM
  #70
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For me, I think it's more of a question of "can he be dealt" vs "should he be dealt". At this point, what he brings to the table is not irreplaceable, therefore he can be dealt. Further, IF the opportunity presents itself to acquire asset(s) that can improve the team for him, or any other expendable player, then he/they should be dealt.

Callahan, AA, and Boyle is essentially the reformation of the Pack Line with Boyle playing the role Dubinsky once did. Over the past TWO seasons, Boyle has produced nearly the same offense, can play in all roles Dubinsky does, and is a third the cap hit. Both being 3rd line players, the Rangers need more offense and speed in their top6 where players like Hagelin and Krieder are making the statements they should be there. Gaborik, Stepan, & Richards aren't moving from the top6.

If either by moving Dubinsky directly or indirectly provides the Rangers with the ability to improve the offense in their top6, then he should be moved. The 4th line can be reserved for Rupp, Prust and another utility/specialist type place.

Organizational depth is crucial to success so trading Dubinsky merely for picks or prospects with no improvement in the top6 doesn't make sense.

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Old
05-08-2012, 08:46 PM
  #71
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There are a few untouchables and obviously he is not in that group.
Personally, I don't see him really applying himself. Sure, lots of movement and energetic skating, puck control too, but he is almost never doing what this team needs most, which is getting right in the dirty areas and fighting for a goal. Make it a priority to keep him to see how next season works out? Nah, I don't see that as pragmatic. Perhaps some disagree, but I do not see it.
Don't trade him for the sake of it, but there could be some good offers for him in trade. There is almost always a team who wants somebody. As long he is not part of any kind of trade for a reclamation project, but I would say that about all trades anyway.


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Old
05-08-2012, 09:35 PM
  #72
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I say we give him 1 more chance. Might just be an off year.

No point of trading him at his absolute lowest value.

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05-08-2012, 09:40 PM
  #73
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I say we give him 1 more chance. Might just be an off year.

No point of trading him at his absolute lowest value.
The thing is, there is no one value that can be placed on any player until the day that he is traded, purchased, etc. Up until that time, it is subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as they say.

Remember the day we heard Gomez was traded? I do not in any way mean to malign Dubinsky, I am not comparing him to Gomez. I just use the Gomez trade as an example to prove my point, even if it is admittedly extreme.

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05-08-2012, 09:42 PM
  #74
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The thing is, there is no one value that can be placed on any player until the day that he is traded, purchased, etc. Up until that time, it is subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as they say.

Remember the day we heard Gomez was traded? I do not in any way mean to malign Dubinsky, I am not comparing him to Gomez. I just use the Gomez trade as an example to prove my point, even if it is admittedly extreme.
Gomez trade would have been great even if we got nothing back lol

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05-08-2012, 09:43 PM
  #75
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Fan base split evenly after 94 votes

I don't like the idea of trading Dubinsky yet. We're still too early in this process. Besides, almost all deals will be Dubinsky+. At this moment, I'd rather hang onto the other assets and look forward to potentially/essentially adding a 25 goal guy without giving up a thing.

I reserve the right to change my mind if Dubinsky is still underachieving by next January.

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