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Old
05-08-2012, 08:21 PM
  #101
Ugene Malkin
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Originally Posted by Pengo View Post
By that logic, should the Wings start to think about firing Mike Babcock?

The system was fine during the regular season... it can definitely work during the playoffs.
What worked during the regular season saw them giving up goals still in bunches against the better teams.

The final part, did you see how it worked in the playoffs? How did it work against the Flyers during the regular season and playoffs.

The system was keep the puck in the other teams D-zone, meaning play offense. This created many turnovers in the grey area (blueline to blueline) from pinching and turning over the puck with bad passes and more to try and keep that puck north.

Regular season isn't the playoffs.

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05-08-2012, 08:42 PM
  #102
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I'm marveling at the Devils right now.

Everyone's in the right spot
Every chip off the boards has the perfect weight
Every reverse is to the right spot

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05-08-2012, 08:49 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I'm marveling at the Devils right now.

Everyone's in the right spot
Every chip off the boards has the perfect weight
Every reverse is to the right spot
Clearly, they're trying harder and caring more than Sid or Geno did.

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05-08-2012, 09:10 PM
  #104
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And this is the first time NJ has made the ECF since 2003. They've had some decent coaches and definitely some decent players since then.

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05-08-2012, 09:12 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Clearly, they're trying harder and caring more than Sid or Geno did.
I'm honestly shocked by what I just saw.

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05-08-2012, 09:13 PM
  #106
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Whew!!!!!

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05-08-2012, 09:21 PM
  #107
Darth Vitale
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
He's getting another chance. The problem is that you won't know what the regular season results mean. You're rolling the dice with Bylsma in the playoffs next year: It will be hit or miss, and what happens during the regular season will have next to no bearing on it.
What I meant was if Bylsma doesn't demonstrate by about the 50 game mark that his team can play two systems / two styles of game (something they can use in the playoffs) against GOOD teams including and especially Philadelphia... that's basically a sign that not much has changed and that Ray should be calling Larry Robinson. Actually he should be calling him the day after NJ's last game and see if he's interested. I brought him up a long time ago (I think when we were tiring of Therrien) and someone else brought him up recently. If nothing else you know our D won't suck with him as coach.

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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I'm honestly shocked by what I just saw.
I'm not. NJ has a good batch of forwards, disciplined D and a goalie who doesn't implode when he lets in a bad goal or two.

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05-08-2012, 09:38 PM
  #108
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The more I watched this series, the more and more evident it appears to me that the Pens' loss falls largely on Bylsma.

How often have we heard players on this team say that "we're not worried about the other team, we just need to play our game"? This is what Bylsma has drilled into them, and it's an arrogant and ignorant strategy to have. The Pens absolutely needed to tailor a game plan for the Flyers. The Devils clearly did and it worked. We tried to play our usual "fast, fast, fast as you can" game, and the Flyers ate it up. We weren't prepared mentally at all for how to handle the Flyers' physicality and between-the-whistle antics, either (though at least some of that falls on the players themselves).

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Old
05-09-2012, 07:14 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Doing what we did to win the Cup.

Aggressive forecheck
Responsible F3 covering for pinching D
Grinding *****es down
Tough, smart defense
Great PK
Bingo. I'll also add, responsible puck possession, and discipline.

In our series, even strength scoring was pretty much even. Philly got put on the powerplay way too much.

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05-09-2012, 10:28 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Bingo. I'll also add, responsible puck possession, and discipline.

In our series, even strength scoring was pretty much even. Philly got put on the powerplay way too much.
Posted this in the 75 thread, but I think it's worth posting again:
From: Devils' Martin Brodeur: Must've been tough for Flyers to talk to themselves (nj.com)

Quote:
"The main key is discipline," Patrik Elias said.
Brodeur agreed.
“Stay disciplined. You could talk about scoring goals, forechecking them and playing well and all that,” Brodeur said, “but I think what was tough on them was us not retaliating to any of the stuff they were doing and all the stuff they were saying every single game. Guys just turned away and didn’t respond to anybody.
“They were able to get Pittsburgh all wrapped up in that stuff. It must’ve gotten tough on them a little bit to just talk to themselves all day long.”
Yes, Flower could have been better. But, it's not like Bryz is really a better goaltender than him.

Yes, our defense could have been better. But, it's not like theirs was any better and weren't battling injuries.

For whatever reason, our team wasn't able to walk away from Philly's ******** and that's really what lost us that series.

Don't get me wrong, I still think this team has system/coaching issues. But if they could have kept their **** together and stayed disciplined ... well, it's a moot point now. The discipline issues fall to both the players as individuals and the coaching staff. Hopefully, next season they don't fall into that trap again.

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05-09-2012, 10:33 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by FDBluth View Post
The more I watched this series, the more and more evident it appears to me that the Pens' loss falls largely on Bylsma.

How often have we heard players on this team say that "we're not worried about the other team, we just need to play our game"? This is what Bylsma has drilled into them, and it's an arrogant and ignorant strategy to have. The Pens absolutely needed to tailor a game plan for the Flyers. The Devils clearly did and it worked. We tried to play our usual "fast, fast, fast as you can" game, and the Flyers ate it up. We weren't prepared mentally at all for how to handle the Flyers' physicality and between-the-whistle antics, either (though at least some of that falls on the players themselves).
Discipline and structure wins cups not the easy going, players only atmosphere the coach is one of the "boys on the bus" approach we have going on here in Pittsburgh.

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05-09-2012, 12:03 PM
  #112
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Some things we should have done, some things we can't do.

-Jersey can afford to stack their defensive blue line with 4 or 5 and force a dump without their D getting hammered on the retrieval because Brodeur can make breakout passes from back there. (Fleury can't, so this option isn't available).

-Deboer rightly identified that shadowing Philly's 5'8 pond-hockey player of a franchise center with his 6'5 beast of a defensive center would take the former out of the series completely at even strength (well, other than all the turnovers). Why "put the Big Center on the small forward and tell him to throw him to the ice whenever he gets the puck" didn't occur to Bylsma is anybody's guess, since that's been the book on small pond-hockey players for decades.

-Puck support. No devil had less than two player further than 10 feet away at any time.

-Brodeur didn't crap the bed.

-Devils made some type of neutral zone adjustment specifically to prevent all those 3 man full-speed breaks the flyers, but with the NBC cameras not being focused away from the play, I couldn't quite tell what it was.

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Old
05-09-2012, 12:28 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
What I meant was if Bylsma doesn't demonstrate by about the 50 game mark that his team can play two systems / two styles of game (something they can use in the playoffs) against GOOD teams including and especially Philadelphia... that's basically a sign that not much has changed and that Ray should be calling Larry Robinson. Actually he should be calling him the day after NJ's last game and see if he's interested. I brought him up a long time ago (I think when we were tiring of Therrien) and someone else brought him up recently. If nothing else you know our D won't suck with him as coach.



I'm not. NJ has a good batch of forwards, disciplined D and a goalie who doesn't implode when he lets in a bad goal or two.
I'm pretty sure Robinson doesn't want to be a Head Coach. I was having the talk with a friend of mine the other day how I wanted he and Tochett as assistants with the Pens, and how I was shocked Robinson didn't have a job yet.

He pointed out that he read somewhere that he loves being an assistant and teaching, rather than having to perform the other duties of an HC (talking to media, etc...)

I keep repeating it, but Jesus that was beautiful to watch last night. I mean at no point did I think Philly was going to score a goal in that third period. Every player was at the right spot at every time. On the local Montreal morning show, the host had the Jersey radio play by play man, and he was talking about how EVERYONE is a teacher there: from Robinson to Oates, to Scott Stevens, all the young guys look up to these guys with awe like respect.

Granato and Rierden need to get gone.

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Old
05-09-2012, 01:05 PM
  #114
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just off the top of my head:

played defense

got play out of their goalie

killed penalties

they won a TON of battles along the boards.

they didnt let skaters behind them like we did. how many times were schenn briere or giroux allowed behind our defenders? drove me nuts.

this set up perfect for the pens to sprint to the cup, but they dropped the ball big time. so much more dissappointed in this early exit than the last two vs mtl and tb.

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Old
05-09-2012, 01:12 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by bigd View Post
What is NJ doing that the Pittsburgh couldn't.
Seriously? They have a goalie who can stop the puck. And they arent taking silly penalties every few minutes. That's pretty much it.

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05-09-2012, 02:30 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DegenX View Post
Posted this in the 75 thread, but I think it's worth posting again:
From: Devils' Martin Brodeur: Must've been tough for Flyers to talk to themselves (nj.com)



Yes, Flower could have been better. But, it's not like Bryz is really a better goaltender than him.

Yes, our defense could have been better. But, it's not like theirs was any better and weren't battling injuries.

For whatever reason, our team wasn't able to walk away from Philly's ******** and that's really what lost us that series.

Don't get me wrong, I still think this team has system/coaching issues. But if they could have kept their **** together and stayed disciplined ... well, it's a moot point now. The discipline issues fall to both the players as individuals and the coaching staff. Hopefully, next season they don't fall into that trap again.
Yup absolutely. The embarrassing meltdown in Game 3 was the representative moment of a team that was absolutely unhinged in terms of discipline. It's not just taking penalties either, that lack of discipline carries right into execution.

This issue falls squarley on a failure of leadership. It's DB, but it must be said, it's also Sid. He put forth a pretty pathetic display of leadership that series.

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Old
05-09-2012, 06:02 PM
  #117
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I also like Robinson as the next coach. I just think as presently constructed, the Pens are simply not defensive first. I admit that the Devils don't have a Crosby or Malkin or Letang, or Staal, but the Pens quit playing D by game 50. Martin is a waste and Michalek is really average when he has to work the boards. Bylsma has to go and Shero really has not developed anyone of note since 2009 on his own. Get past the Stall pick and all he has done is make trades, some good. But he or Bylsma keep playing or rewarding players who only play his BS system. Tangradi is not as good a skater as Cooke, really? Kunitz is a very good forward, but the Pens just place no fear into anyone now with a forward who hits you with all he has and doesn't make a dent. Rupp gave them a big hard checker who would bang your butt. So they keep a bunch of 5-10 200 pound wingers who lack presence. Staal hits only when he wants to. I like Neal, but he is god awful defensivly sometimes.

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05-09-2012, 06:16 PM
  #118
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I think Game 3 wasn't just about being undisciplined but they were on the brink of going down 0-3. Having PP goal after PP goal whizz by your 'tender then having chirps/after whistle stuff all game. Pretty tough to keep your composure. As easy as it is to say you would turn away. Try putting yourself in that situation.

It's much easier to turn away from that stuff when you're playing good hockey like the Devils did/were.

Alot of the penalties were ticky tack calls with the Flyers flopping all over the place in our series. I noticed the refs weren't buying alot of it in the Devils series.

Did we play bad? Yep, Terribad.
We're we undisciplined? I would say yes BUT the above compounded everything.

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05-09-2012, 06:22 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
S
-Puck support. No devil had less than two player further than 10 feet away at any time.
This is an issue the Pens seemed to struggle with a lot this season.

This was also a problem when it came to the Pens' insistence on using those long stretch passes, where instead of their being a forward a few feet away from the D with the puck, they all seemed to be far up the ice waiting for that long Hail Mary pass.

This is one of the key areas where I blame Bylsma. He didn't seem to change the game plan even when those long stretch passes were being intercepted on a regular basis and causing odd man rushes the other way.

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05-09-2012, 08:03 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
I think Game 3 wasn't just about being undisciplined but they were on the brink of going down 0-3. Having PP goal after PP goal whizz by your 'tender then having chirps/after whistle stuff all game. Pretty tough to keep your composure. As easy as it is to say you would turn away. Try putting yourself in that situation.

It's much easier to turn away from that stuff when you're playing good hockey like the Devils did/were.

Alot of the penalties were ticky tack calls with the Flyers flopping all over the place in our series. I noticed the refs weren't buying alot of it in the Devils series.

Did we play bad? Yep, Terribad.
We're we undisciplined? I would say yes BUT the above compounded everything.
You sound like Orpik and Sid making those excuses. The fact that they were on the brink of going down 0-3 is exactly why they needed to keep their cool. Things were going poorly but it was the first period. Going into meltdown mode at that point was embarrassing.

The fact that these guys defended their own actions, and refused to take responsibility even after getting eliminated, and the way DB just stood there and watched all these issues compounding over the final weeks, is concerning to me. It shows that there could be some major issues in that locker room, like a lack of accountability.

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05-10-2012, 12:12 PM
  #121
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Quote:
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You sound like Orpik and Sid making those excuses. The fact that they were on the brink of going down 0-3 is exactly why they needed to keep their cool. Things were going poorly but it was the first period. Going into meltdown mode at that point was embarrassing.

The fact that these guys defended their own actions, and refused to take responsibility even after getting eliminated, and the way DB just stood there and watched all these issues compounding over the final weeks, is concerning to me. It shows that there could be some major issues in that locker room, like a lack of accountability.
Which might just be an issue of captaincy...

inb4 I'm keelhauled for suggesting Sid is a whiny bad leader

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05-10-2012, 12:15 PM
  #122
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Sid is a great captain. But yes, b/c he tried to shake up the series when it was clearly going Philly's way and he pushed a glove away, we should question his leadership skills.

Classic.

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05-10-2012, 12:23 PM
  #123
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Sid is a great captain. But yes, b/c he tried to shake up the series when it was clearly going Philly's way and he pushed a glove away, we should question his leadership skills.

Classic.
Can you imagine if he shot the glove in the Flyers net? OMG

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05-10-2012, 12:30 PM
  #124
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Another thing: Devils worked their ***** off.

Won every board battle, got to every loose puck. I think there's something wrong with the chemistry and the effort of some of these players.

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05-10-2012, 12:45 PM
  #125
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Another thing: Devils worked their ***** off.

Won every board battle, got to every loose puck. I think there's something wrong with the chemistry and the effort of some of these players.
They did a much better job at creating pressure in Philly's end. People can refer to our goal stats all they want, Sid was largely neutralized with Sully and Duper. We need an upgrade in that regard. Needs to be addressed by next postseason.

We can talk about overpaying a 4th liner like Tootoo or Prust all we want, but dedicating that cap space to properly insulate Sid/Geno is the way to go moving forward. Especially if Staal leaves.

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